On Facebook marketplace, not mine, looks like a "D" seated...
Hello! I came across this posting a few days ago and asked him a few questions. I see he updated the post with a little more info after we spoke. He didn't disclose or doesn't know how many miles are on it. He says it has a 741 and top speed is 66-67 and roughly 6-8mpg. He also sent me a few videos that I can't see on the listing.
Would anyone mind giving their opinion? I think if I'm patient, I can score a newer DL series with a b500 that was city maintained for a little more money. There were a few upgrades to the line between 94 and early 2000's correct? I remember reading here somewhere about the frame rails that were added for newer models. Feel free to chime in on what the tradeoffs would be and any advice.
I could use a good deal, as my first buy ended in disaster and I'm still recovering. Thanks all!
Hi kinson, this ad on his webb says 12.7 ltr. Engine Big difference, which DDEC engine is it 8V92 or Series 60? lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on February 10, 2019, 03:27:01 PM
Hi kinson, this ad on his webb says 12.7 ltr. Engine Big difference, which DDEC engine is it? lvmci...
In our messages, he has only ever referred to it as the 12.7. After I first made contact, he went to the bus location and must have realized his error. What year was the switch to 4 stroke? He told me he bought it last fall and has driven it 200 miles. I guess the other trip he is talking about was with the previous owner??
I can send him a message asking for sure. Anything else to ask?
I don't think these are on the ad, but I don't use facebook that much. Engine compartment looks dark and brown. Let me know any thoughts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzFFTSFLK4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzFFTSFLK4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QafzFokALB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QafzFokALB4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSTag34FSO0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSTag34FSO0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVaombDPSQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVaombDPSQ)
There were a few years of overlap where one could get a S60 with an old school, electronic controlled 4 speed auto...
Spinning the S60 as fast as a 1:1 top gear does, the fuel economy potential was ruined.
Penny wise on the cheaper option transmission, Pound foolish on the fuel economy.
However, a busnut doesn't typically do enough mileage for fuel economy to matter... go back and read that sentence again... and again...
so pick your coach according to condition and price.
Do you want 40 or 45 feet?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on February 10, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
There were a few years of overlap where one could get a S60 with an old school, electronic controlled 4 speed auto...
Spinning the S60 as fast as a 1:1 top gear does, the fuel economy potential was ruined.
Penny wise on the cheaper option transmission, Pound foolish on the fuel economy.
However, a busnut doesn't typically do enough mileage for fuel economy to matter... go back and read that sentence again... and again...
so pick your coach according to condition and price.
Do you want 40 or 45 feet?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I have my heart set on a 45 footer. I have placed a pretty high value on mpg during my hunt for a bus. Maybe I was mistaken because I don't think I will put many miles on it as you say. I'd like to save anywhere possible though. I think it would have to be a little bit better of a deal if it has too many negatives.
Well it's not an 8V92! Someone with better eyes will have to identify the engine in the 2nd youtube...
Doesn't look like a 12.7. might just be a 11.1 but I have never seen one up close and personal before.
most '94 are 8v92t. Series 60 switch was '95-'96 onward
Is it possible it came stock like this or swapped?
Can there be series 50s on "D"s?
Quote from: lvmci on February 11, 2019, 07:55:17 AM
Can there be series 50s on "D"s?
All I've found s50's in are transits that I've seen. I was actually looking into the engine a good bit due to its mpg. I figured the balance shaft issue was something I didn't want to run into in the future. I had him measure the bus to be sure and he told me 45'5''. My bad, I should have clarified that earlier.
Also, I remember seeing a 1994~? DL3 listing that said it had a "Cat 350" in it. What could that possibly be, a c10?
Quote from: kinson on February 11, 2019, 10:09:11 AM
Also, I remember seeing a 1994~? DL3 listing that said it had a "Cat 350" in it. What could that possibly be, a c10?
Info about the DL3 has a few Cat engines listed; C10 and 3176. Both of those fall into the 350hp range correct? Maybe that is what they meant by "Cat 350"... just curious.
As far as this listing with the Detroit, he raised the price and I am waiting on the answers to a few questions.
Others here have far more details than I but Series 50 was an option in early '90s MCI. The D or DL is the designation for 40 or 45 foot models. MCI OEM plants were Detroit Diesel. I have no idea if one could have been factory ordered with a CAT.
When I was looking I found a number of them with Cat engines.
1994 and up generally had the Series 60. Apparently for a year or so both the 11 and 12 liter engine was used before it was dropped and only the 12 liter was used. The 741 was fitted initially and then the B500 as near as I can tell.
I bought a 1996 which turns out to be a good year. 12.7L DDEC3 Series60 and B500, Kneel, Rear Raise, and a number of other features more or less standard. It's a heck of a good platform to start out with.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 12, 2019, 03:05:34 PM
When I was looking I found a number of them with Cat engines.
1994 and up generally had the Series 60. Apparently for a year or so both the 11 and 12 liter engine was used before it was dropped and only the 12 liter was used. The 741 was fitted initially and then the B500 as near as I can tell.
I bought a 1996 which turns out to be a good year. 12.7L DDEC3 Series60 and B500, Kneel, Rear Raise, and a number of other features more or less standard. It's a heck of a good platform to start out with.
Jim
Do you recall if they were the C10 or 3176? If it was anything else it was a swap right?
I'd love to find a deal like you did Jim! I am in the Northeast and might have to do some major travelling to find a decent candidate in my price range.
You need to be concerned with rust in the Northeast, even though there's so much stainless on the newer generations of Ds, rust can happen anywhere...
To find that kind of a deal takes an investment of time and you have to search literally every available source. Ebay, craigslist, online auctions, facebook, classified ads, and everything else you can find. I'd say the online auctions hold the most promise. I paid about $1350 to have the bus transported from Connecticut. NJ seems to sell a lot of them. Turns out it was driven mostly from a Wyoming locale during use. Where it is doesn't necessarily mean anything about where it was used unless it was owned by a Municipality (like Houston). Cities are getting rid of their older DL's so now is the time and there are a lot of them still in service. It's important not to get in too big of a hurry.
Things to check for include engine history especially the bull gear. When was it replaced? Have the air bag trunions been plated? Then of course all else being equal get one with the shiny wheels if you can.
Jim
Yep! The other options I am comparing this specific listing to are southern city maintained DL3's. Anything would be a long haul back to PA. Most listings want more than what driving a southern bus back would cost. I checked all those sites you've listed fairly often, but I think snagging a retired city mci would hurt my pockets least. I haven't shared my first purchase nightmare here, but I could use a stellar deal to get me back in the conversion game.
Make sure the city coach you are looking for hasn't lived it's life running over massive potholes, curbs, etc.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 13, 2019, 08:16:33 AM
Make sure the city coach you are looking for hasn't lived it's life running over massive potholes, curbs, etc.
Excellent point! I've seen some with the bottoms of bays bent from what you describe or possibly speed bumps. What does everyone think about damage like that? Would it be impossible to fix and does it compromise anything on the coach? Best to avoid or not a big deal?
Ive ridden some NJ transit coaches. Some rattle over every bump, running gear in some sound like bearings and gears are shot, some don't rattle and driveline is nice and quiet. Same brand and model number. MCI's. Just be careful. Some things are more important in a primarily highway coach than a city run one. Luke may have some input on them since his business is in NJ. Even if your purchase may be somewhere else in the US.
I did notice a good bit of rattling over bumps on the videos I posted about this listing. The volume had to be cranked.
Did anyone else happen to have anything to add on this listing? The guy said if he can't get rid of it soon, he will scrap. It is not local to me and I don't have much experience inspecting for deal-breakers. I am just thinking it may not be worth it to settle for this when a few more bucks would get me a better platform(12.7, b500, chassis improvements, better maintained). After a year or two, the "no overdrive" would add a bit more to the fuel costs. The rattling down the road in the videos is what chessie is referring to, correct? Run away? What would you guys offer?
The "D" is a good model, the most sold of any model ever made. Waiting for what you really want is always a better idea. How many have you looked at in total? Because of how many D's & C's we're made, there are a lot coming on the market, good luck, lvmci...
Did you miss this batch of 2003 MCI DL that sold last weekend for 5000-6500?
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.msg387047#msg387047 (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.msg387047#msg387047)
Quote from: windtrader on February 25, 2019, 09:49:13 PM
Did you miss this batch of 2003 MCI DL that sold last weekend for 5000-6500?
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.msg387047#msg387047 (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33782.msg387047#msg387047)
Nope, I was watching with the rest of you. Last two went for $5500.