I have been reading a lot about buses over the last year or so and am very impressed witht he knowledge base here.
I am very impressed with everything I read and hear about MCI -- simply a phenomenal bus.
So, my main question --
Are Prevost buses built as well and are they built in the same fashion? I don't remember the term, but, as I understand, MCI's are not built on a frame, but the carcass of the bus is the frame, hope that makes sense. Kind of like an "exoskeleton" it seems. I think this is a brilliant method and hope Presost's are similar.
If Persvost's are built in this same way, what would be the broad and general advantages or disadvantages of either?
There probably is a thread or 2 that discuss this, but I haven't been able to lay my eyes on it yet. Point me in the right direction and I will be more than happy.
Thanks a million,
Seb
If you are going to convert one, go with an MCI. Larger selection used and cheaper prices.
If you want one already converted, more MCI's out there than Pervosts and usually cheaper in price year for year of comparable conversion job. Some people consider Pervosts a better coach, sort of like Michelin tires. Individual tastes vary, of course. Some love Eagles. None of these have a separate frame assy. They are all built more like airplanes.
Same for the GM buses - they're all built uni-body style and don't have a distinct chassis like an old car would.
Great, that is all good info.
I am looking for already converted, just seems like there are plenty of them out there.
Seb
Buy the one that you like to look at. They're all going to cost you more than you think so being happy with their appearance helps you stomach the expense. Think of it like a wife - nobody marries an ugly one. Beauty is in the beholder's eye. Personally I think the Eagles look the best but my gummit wouldn't let me own one so I settled for a Prevost.
You don't "settle" for a Prevost. You are "fortunate" to own one.
Yeah, some people marry an ugly one...$$$$$. Money buys the Man toys.😍
At the busnut level?
Ford Chevy Dodge...
Gamble on the coach that is likely to not bankrupt you on the mechanical side.
BoTN has it nailed.
Pick the best of the ones you like the look of.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
If you don't love the looks of your bus, you will have a hard time spending all that money (mainly every spare buck you have). All of the various makes have their fans, take a good look at many before you decide. Good Prevost's that are already converted will be some of the most pricey available. Both Prevost and MCI have better parts availability, but you will pay for that honor.
My opinion, Conversions that were never passenger buses, shells from the factory, will have the least miles on them. Coaches that lived their life in the southwest, have the best chance of little rust damage. MCI, then Prevost were the first to have stainless steel running gear, drive train and outer components. If you live in mountainess areas the early generations of MCIs have split radiators up about 5 feet (except the combos). That configuration along with the 2 stroke V92s and to a lesser degree the V71s, have to be driven in a way to accommodate overheating engines. In the late 80s, MCI C3s start the upper rear single engine radiator and the early non electronic series 60 4stroke (besides 8V92s) and hill climbing is not an overheating event. In my opinion, that C3 would be the best conversion to look for, unless you want to start smaller with single rear axle 35 ft, which a lot of us have done. But as has been mentioned, easier to up date a converted Bus and learn from that experience, then emptying out a passenger bus and starting from scratch with your first experience, lvmci...
Hello all,
All great insight.
Yes, I like the idea of a buss that never was a passenger bus and all of the other insightful remarks are very appreciated.
In looking at what is out there it seems, dollar for dollar and time investment would be better serves with and already converted bus that can then be "made" to suit us better.
Thanks a million,
Seb
You haven't really mentioned budget yet, so it's hard to know exactly what to suggest. But, if you're interested in conversions which were never a passenger coach they are certainly out there. They are out there for vintage buses as well.
I know that you're debating MIC vs. Prevost, but for an example we bought our 1974 GMC 4108 about a year and a half ago. It was converted in 1974 on a new shell, and when we bought it there were only about 40,000 actual miles on it. The bus was virtually new in many ways, although some updates and repairs were needed.
You can't always tell the amount of wear or rust a vehicle has based on its location. Ours was in NJ its whole life, but the owner never used it during the winter months so there is zero rust or damage from salt-covered roads. Some passenger buses may have been based in the south but were used on routes that took them to the rust-belt. You have to examine each bus you're interested in to know for certain.
They aren't mentioned much on this board but Wanderlodges are real buses, factory converted, not too expensive, and have a very active support board to help keep them going. I have been pretty happy with the two I have owned.
TOM
First check for "yellow primer". ;)
What is the significance of "yellow primer"?
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 31, 2019, 08:06:55 AM
First check for "yellow primer". ;)
I think he meant to check to see if it was ever in service as a school bus. Blue Bird buses were made for both the Wanderlodge and for school buses. A Wanderlodge would have been made on a new chassis specifically produced to be a motor home, but if there is yellow paint under the top coat that would be a good sign that you're looking at a 'schoolie' conversion and not a true Wanderlodge.
Aahhhaa, Gotcha
Quote from: richard5933 on January 31, 2019, 10:49:08 AM
I think he meant to check to see if it was ever in service as a school bus. Blue Bird buses were made for both the Wanderlodge and for school buses. A Wanderlodge would have been made on a new chassis specifically produced to be a motor home, but if there is yellow paint under the top coat that would be a good sign that you're looking at a 'schoolie' conversion and not a true Wanderlodge.
prevost has frame--have built 2 of them-- Mci is as you described.. I'm sure you have a strong skill set:so choose the one you feel more comfortable working on. I have built a mci 8 also. I love all of them. The one that says I gotta have that! is the one you get.
Quote from: robertglines1 on January 31, 2019, 11:11:20 AM
The one that says I gotta have that! is the one you get.
Gotta agree with that.
There's a ton of work that goes into doing a conversion and it takes time. So look at the time value of your money. If you can afford to buy the nice finished conversion you can use it right away. That has significant value, as do the costs associated with every component and supply already installed.
OTOH, the advantages of doing the conversion include knowing intimately what everything does, having all systems work exactly as you want them to, and of course the brag factor. Not to be discounted either. You just have to decide what fits you best.
The newer buses are the best in a great number of ways but the old ones have appeal for completely different reasons. Somewhere you have to strike a balance of features against what you can afford. Then you can look at brands, models, and personal preferences. Prevost is very nice but MCI generally gets you more for your money. What'll it be then, a GM or a Mercedes?
Jim
While mulling over pre-purchase considerations much like you are now, I was swayed from initially doing a conversion myself to purchasing an already converted coach.
Two significant factors need thorough pondering. How long, as in possible years are you willing to wait until the conversion becomes fully functional and roadworthy? How confident and patient are you in yourself and deal with the frustrations and expenditure of resources during the build process?
Adding to Jim's point about time value. The total reason for a bus conversion was to transport us across the country for our enjoyment rather immediately. This was not an initial criteria but after delving into the various paths forward as you are doing now, it became very clear there were many unpleasant scenarios coming with a multi-year full DIY conversion.
Additionally, it became clear that in today's market, there is far greater value in purchasing an already converted coach. Even with plenty of time and the value of your time worth less than flipping burgers, it seems highly probable a DIY spend will be more than what you can buy already converted.
As mentioned before, you need to first establish a firm and realistic budget of time and money. That will narrow your options quite a bit. An factory conversion on Prevost may not be a viable option based on your budget. Work on that first and things will become clearer. Good luck
Correct
How much mechanical experience do you have? If very little then buy the newest PROFESSIONALLY converted bus you can afford. That was my biggest mistake - I bought a bus that was converted pretty nicely by an individual but not professionally converted, and I naively bought the bus with basically no knowledge of bus mechanical systems. Needless to say it's been a tough learning curve fixing things that have broken along the way and adding things I've wanted. Professionally converted buses generally have things you don't even know you need or want already thoughtfully laid out with solid craftsmanship, and the bus itself will usually have low miles and still be as good as new.
Hope this helps.
Hello,
I do pretty well. I restored a GTO Judge when I was 16. Replace numerous engines and everything else in every car and I've owned.
I even converted my F350 to run on straight vegetable oil in below 0 temps.
I have also built and rehabs many houses.
I can pretty much handle or figure out anything.
Seb
Quote from: JT4SC on January 31, 2019, 06:16:56 PM
How much mechanical experience do you have? If very little then buy the newest PROFESSIONALLY converted bus you can afford. That was my biggest mistake - I bought a bus that was converted pretty nicely by an individual but not professionally converted, and I naively bought the bus with basically no knowledge of bus mechanical systems. Needless to say it's been a tough learning curve fixing things that have broken along the way and adding things I've wanted. Professionally converted buses generally have things you don't even know you need or want already thoughtfully laid out with solid craftsmanship, and the bus itself will usually have low miles and still be as good as new.
Hope this helps.
Just a thought.... Do you want to drive it? Or do you want to work on it? Seems like a simple set of questions, however if it's a unit you expect to take on week long vacation trips, renting an RV or bus conversion would be much cheaper. If you love to work on stuff and be creative, buy something that captures your imagination, because your joy will be the trip rather than the destination. Generally a bigger budget means newer unit and less maintenance. There's an old boating saying, "if you enjoy going there, buy a sailboat, if you enjoying getting there, buy a power boat". Kinda the same thing with buses. I love the hunt more than the kill. My choice was a 1989 Prevost H5-60 articulated bus. There were 46 made. She is my "big mama". She is gobbling up lots of love from me and soon, she will be parading "her stuff" proudly down the road. That's fun for me.
Now that right there is ambitious. Proud of you Steve, get-er done!
Jim
Well, we live in Europe now and this research is for a time in the future we may decide to return to the states.
It would be to live in. We have nothing in the states, so would be starting fresh. I can't think of anywhere in the states I want to live. So, I want to be mobile and go where I please on a whim.
Seb
The MCI's have a frame from the C model up.Eagles have always had a frame,the MCI D or DL is the best buy out there because so many were manufactured it has a 4 stroke engine Cat,Cummins or the Detroit series 60 with the world Allison pretty much maintaince free.FWIW more MCI D's have been manufactured than Prevost or Eagle entire production
Eagles probably had to have some sort of frame to support the torsalastic suspension. The part that is attached to the chassis needs substantial support to absorb road shock torque generated without evential fatigue to the body. As all these coaches keep getting heavier, they need substantially better designs that uni-bodies aren't supplying. Witness the bulkhead cracking on many coaches of all makes over the years from harsh operating conditions. Add corrosion from road salt to the mix.
I'll vote for the D or DL, you can get a lot for your money if you're buying a seated coach. OTOH, not so many RV conversions have been done on that chassis that they reflect the same price drop. The market is not flooded. Which is to say the completed conversion will not represent the same bargain that the seated coach will. As a more desirable chassis it will tend instead to draw a premium. Now if you happen across a partially completed conversion OTOH that situation will tend to be much more favorable to you, and with the number of DLs coming on the market the chances of that are improving. Then of course you have to deal with someone else's failed project.
Jim
Regarding bus frames, I would like to point out that a Prevost H3 is all stainless steel unibody with fiberglass/gel coat panels. That removes almost all the rust problems associated with older coaches. The H3 has all disc brakes. If you would prefer fiberglass repair over metal working, that could be a consideration. BTW, if you want a ground up project, I was attempting to make my own version of an H5-60 before I found the real thing. I took two Prevost leMirage bus to bare steel, raised roof 12", engineered both walls to hydraulically slide open two feet each, cut the back of one bus off and turned it around to connect to the rear of the other bus. Since I now have a real H5, I'm willing to pass my leMirage-60 to another ambitious person with thoughts of wanting a "one off" showpiece.
I visited Prevost factory in the French speaking area of northeastern Canada, prior to starting the project to get advice from their engineers about structural integrity of bus. After reviewing my plans to a conference room filled with their engineering staff, they talked among themselves (in French) and there was were more than a few outbursts of laughter the room got quiet as the chief engineer addressed me. He gave me the greatest advice I could hear. He said,"Mr. Campbell, we have considered your plans to cut down the middle of the roof and make both wall/roof sections slide out. And we understand you would have a roof platform that would cover the resultant opening. Of course, this transformation would be done only while the bus is parked. We find no structural reason why this would cause our bus to fail. However we do strongly urge you to put the bus back together again, tightly before you drive it on the highway. A carnival ride manufacturer confirmed that he could make the clamps to accomplish that task.
Does look like the jungle is trying to take it. Sort of reminds me of the guy I knew who quartered an Opel GT and planned to make it fit a Corvette chassis. Very creative, sort of artistic, never was finished. But he was having a great time with it, sorting out all the little details. Probably was biPolar.
I think you are much better off with the articulated bus as a starting point and letting Prevost do the heavy lifting.
Jim
Quote from: steve@teamameritest.com on February 02, 2019, 07:26:03 AM
Regarding bus frames, I would like to point out that a Prevost H3 is all stainless steel unibody with fiberglass/gel coat panels. That removes almost all the rust problems associated with older coaches. The H3 has all disc brakes. If you would prefer fiberglass repair over metal working, that could be a consideration. BTW, if you want a ground up project, I was attempting to make my own version of an H5-60 before I found the real thing. I took two Prevost leMirage bus to bare steel, raised roof 12", engineered both walls to hydraulically slide open two feet each, cut the back of one bus off and turned it around to connect to the rear of the other bus. Since I now have a real H5, I'm willing to pass my leMirage-60 to another ambitious person with thoughts of wanting a "one off" showpiece.
The H3 is not all stainless all the high stress points like the engine compartment are made of steel,and they have a few rust problems areas
No connection with me but this is a local bus conversion:
https://prescott.craigslist.org/rvs/d/cottonwood-tiny-house-fully-converted/6793983891.html
All H3 have disc brakes?
Today, yes, but between the beginning and now...?
I'm not so sure?
It is always neat to see the bare skeleton.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Hello, I have an early 1998 H3-41 and it has drum brakes on the drive axle. The front and tag axles are disc. A bit of bus trivia- the early 1998 H3's have framed windows and the late 1998 H3's have "frame-less" windows. They also upgraded the the rear suspension frame in 1998.
As far as MCI versus Prevost- I started to convert a 1989 MCI 102C3, then I went to a rally and saw H3-Jim's bus and Ron Walkers bus. After the rally I found an H3 that was in service and I talked the company into selling it. It was the opposite of the recommendations given here. The body, engine and transmission were in nice shape but there were many maintenance issues. Coolant leaks, air leaks, oil leaks, bad wheel bearings etc. I am extremely happy I switched from the 102C3 to the H3. The tall bays make it comfortable while working on conversion systems and the Series 60-B500 combination is fun to drive. I have a huge amount of time and money in the project and as the years go by I still enjoy working on it.
Bandsaw
I owned a H-41 with the bonded windows for awhile nice bus the IFS (independent front suspension) was a nightmare and very pricey to maintain,I would prefer the straight axle on the front on a Prevost even giving up a little ride