Not sure why it isn't on the bus.
Jim
If it was your car,would you be asking?
If you get stopped, how many other things are wrong?
You only get one freebie...
You're asking this bunch of godless heathens?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
You are required to have a rear bumper ,just buy some old guard rail or a piece of channel and bolt it on that works BTDT,maybe the bumper is in a bay
Right. So best not leave it as-is. One way trip though, I suspect a pressure treated 2x10 painted black might serve. Or 2x12. Opinions?
Jim
I vote for the 2 x 10 in a nice Blue with reflectors on the ends! ::)
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on November 18, 2018, 06:21:53 PM
Right. So best not leave it as-is. One way trip though, I suspect a pressure treated 2x10 painted black might serve. Or 2x12. Opinions?
Jim
You bought a bus??
Not yet but working on it.
Jim
Only two reasons to take the back bumper off, in the normal course of things. Bus got hit from behind, or someone was getting ready to take the engine out. If you are working on buying this bus, those are questions I would ask myself...
In my younger years I had a 66 VW Kombi Van with 4x6 CA redwood front & rear bumpers pinstriped in white under many coats of Crystal clear resin. Got lots of good words on them beauties. My favorite was in the Cheech & Chong movie "Up in smoke" they had bumpers made of hashish brick! ::)
Heed Brian's warning...
What did they find, to trigger the sale, and they aren't even mentally competent enough to put the bumper back on to hide their efforts?
In a collision, the bumper typically caves in the centre, striking the crankshaft pully, and shocking the entire drivetrain, mounts and structure, depending on the force.
Very suspicious...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Lot people remove the rear bumper on a DL because they don't like the ugly @$# transit bumper and with those bumpers the DL3 is 45'6" long and some by the book inspectors at the local DMV frown on it when changing the plates over to a RV BTDT in AZ
So you guys are saying I need to specifically ask why the bumper was removed in the first place. That's fair. An engine that runs but is headed south would make it not so good of a deal to be sure, and I was wondering why the owner is dragging his feet on his asking price. That could be it. Hopefully I'll find out today. If it's a problem I can pass. As Grampaw always said, there's never so good a deal but what an equally good one isn't right behind it. I try to remember that. Those Houston buses look pretty fine, but winter's hardly begun and they are far away. Plenty of time to look, cash in hand. Something will come up.
My thinking is that if the Houston fleet is selling off their old stock with 500-700K miles on them that should be fairly typical and I should see that elsewhere. Just what I'm looking for. $6500 is right in my price range too.
Jim
As anything on these boards think the worst and hope for the best there could be a number of reason for the back bumper to be off it only has 6 -1/2 bolts holding it on
Don't know the bus, but could this be a rust issue?
My dad caught the the bumper on a pole at the fuel station. He didn't hear it getting ripped off the back of the coach during a hard turn out of the station. The scenics with 8 rear tires actually have a lot of tail whip. As the bumper got taco'd it took out the rear taillight panel battery door and AC condenser door. :(
I have managed to repair all but the rear bumper and have put about 2100 miles on it last year without the rear bumper, although the scenics muffler configuration kind of looks like a rear bumper and would probably act like one more then the original aluminum bumper. This was replaced with what looked like a steel truck bumper and I didn't care for that look. I have a 4905 bumper I am planning to use.
Long story short I have been passed by many WSP and OSP knock on wood without any issues.
Jack
Good to know.
We tentatively have a deal, pending the cause for the bumper removal. He thinks it's in good shape, we'll see. They are going to put it back on the bus and check it out to make sure it is roadworthy for the trip down. I've inquired as to if and how much for them to to ferry it down here, I feel that would remove some of the concerns and probably be worth the tariff. Should streamline the paperwork a little too. Hope to hear back today some time.
I'm much more excited about this than the money I'm spending justifies. Not sure why that is exactly but it sure is nerve wracking waiting on their next response.
Jim
Looks like we've got a deal.
Jim
That is exciting!
Love the D buses.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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At long last - Congrats!!
Congratulation! Safe travels!
My bus never had a rear bumper from the day I bought it. 18 years and 85,000 miles and counting, never a problem. I actually have one lined up, but have to make a trip to MT to get it. One of these years.
Welcome to the madness...
Looks good! You don't even have to paint it.
JC
Congrats!
dave
Thanks for the kind comments! I feel like a kid in a candy store. Pretty uncommon for a guy my age, I can tell you.
I'm guessing all y'all want to hear a little about it. First, I met my cost target. I'm having the seller deliver the bus, as that simplifies and streamlines the process. Not cheap but under $1500 to get it here from Connecticut. I've asked them to transfer title as an RV instead of a commercial vehicle and hope that will deal with that not so small issue. Since they do a regular trade in vehicles hopefully that will be easy for them. (They maintain a fleet of 1500 vehicles. DATTCO) It also means it will arrive in driveable condition. No small consideration.
First, the bumper question since that is the title of this thread. Story is, the bus was replaced with a newer model and was being used as a training vehicle when one of their regular buses suddenly needed a rear bumper. So they snagged this one. The damaged one was repairable so it was fixed and will be reinstalled on this bus. I suppose if that isn't good enough for me I can scrounge a replacement.
They used the bus under contract as transport for a band or group of musicians exclusively but did not say if the bus was bought new or used for that purpose. I guess I should ask but I'm not sure it makes any difference. Anyway, there is no lavatory and I'll just have to look and see if there ever was one. That may not make any difference either, depending on how the floor was patched, but I did notice that rear window looks a shade odd. A number of the seats are not there, some space at the rear and also the front was used to store instruments and there are a number of cheap cabinets on board. It looks like all the overhead bins are intact. Some sort of backdrop cloth is draped over the rear bulkhead and there is a clothing rack. Mileage is 595K. There is some rust in the engine compartment, which will need some attention but hasn't gone too far from the photos. A little rust on the airbag stanchions. I only had one photo but it looked like mainly surface rust. It's a '96 model, with the B500 transmission, not sure which engine but it's a 60 series. Tires have over 10/32 tread (up to 17/32), not sure of the sidewalls or age.
I'm pretty happy with the color. It's a lot of red but I guess I could always add some graphics if it's too much. It could probably use a fresh coat of clear and there looks to be some staining down the side in a couple spots. Looks like there's a small scuff at the bumper/entry door. Plenty good enough for now.
It'll be 2-3 weeks before it is delivered. Then out come the seats. The plan is to evaluate then, possibly retain the overhead bins, and possibly plan a trip to Elkhart to shop for surplus items to outfit the bus. The floor may be sound as it may not have gotten the daily mopdown treatment. If so I plan to find a suitable floor covering and disturb what's already there as little as possible. Ditto for the roof and side walls. Let the cabinetry cover the existing windows on the inside and maybe use day/night shades for the rest. Beyond that is "read and run" as we used to say in the whitewater rafting trade. Learn as you go. Lay out the floorplan with masking tape and begin making it liveable. I see three options for tanks. Buy them, make them, or possibly the best option, convert some stainless I have on hand to the purpose. That could be a sweet setup and possibly also the least expensive. I should be able to cut down an existing tank to make at least 2 and maybe part of a third. Initially I'm thinking 200/150/50 gal but I'll have to do some measuring and figuring. The charger/inverter will be an interesting challenge and I might do a homegrown version. HF starter/chargers have the basic ingredients and can be added on to, it's not that complex. And I haven't forgotten about the backpack toad idea either. Not an easy solution, but nothing worthwhile ever is.
Jim
Tuccitown, I'm curious. What was that graphic supposed to be?
Jim
Enjoy and take care of the rust or the air bags will be through the floor ,the Alcoa's and wheels studs are worth 1/2 of what you paid for the bus,? the tag a follow a long steering or stationary
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on November 20, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
Tuccitown, I'm curious. What was that graphic supposed to be?
Jim
I wondered too, looking on my phone. It shows up properly on a computer screen.
Big thumbs up!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Oh, right! That's pretty cool.
No clue what tag axle it is, or much else about the bus really. I suspect some of you like BW could tell me a lot about it. Like, did it come equipped with leveling or kneeling for instance. Plenty of exploring to do once it gets here.
I'm fortunate to have been around my brother a lot, who has owned and operated a Pete for a few decades now. Same engine too, that's a plus. I think he's on his 3rd or 4th engine by now. While I don't have all the big wrenches I might need, I know where to get them, and the size doesn't scare me.
Depending on just how much rust is actually there, the airbag stanchions may or may not need to be disturbed. Hoping not, but close inspection will tell. I do have welders. I can weld overhead if need be. But I'd rather not.
Jim
Congratulations, but I hope you had a chance to inspect the bus and drive it before you committed to it. It is not always prudent to buy something based on pictures and the word of the seller. The Northeast uses a lot of salt in the winter (I used to be a bulk road salt dealer). Let's hope that the bull gear in the Series 60 is in good shape. It will either be a good deal, or a great learning experience. ;)
True enough.
So the old fingers are crossed awaiting arrival. The good news is, not a lot of money out of pocket. And as noted, salvage value would be a significant part of purchase cost if it came to that. But OTOH if it has 200K left in it that's likely all I'll ever need and more.
I'd rather not change out a bull gear. But, at least it is on the back of the engine which is by the doors right? And I've seen it done. Not really that intimidating, I'd rather do that than a head or a crank. Or sleeves and pistons. Or a transmission. But if fortune smiles upon me I may not have to do any of those things. Am I a gambler? Yep, I guess so. But I do like to stack the odds in my own favor.
Jim
The bull gear is on the front of engine behind the cover and harmonic balance ,nothing drives off the rear of a series 60 except the transmission
Yeah that was what I was thinking. You have that big aluminum cover right out there where you can get to it.
By all rights I should have and would like to have been able to cold start the bus, see how it fires off, listen to it, drive it, and take an oil sample. And had it been within a reasonable driving distance I'd have done all of that and more besides.
But it wasn't. And due to the odd interior and the back bumper the price was very good indeed compared to one being sold for coach service. The seller understood this, and mentioned that it might need the brakes serviced but it was believed to be otherwise in good mechanical condition. And yeah I'm well aware of people's propensity to make light of flaws but sometimes you just have to take a chance and trust somebody. This ended up being one of those times, and I felt like I could trust the guy I was dealing with. Obviously I hope to be proven right. If not, I hope whatever flaws there might be are things I can deal with. Heck, even if it were a transmission, well I do have a forklift so presumably I can deal with it too. Much rather not of course but there you go. As for the actual cash outlay, well let's just say I traded one of my dirt bikes for it. Granted it was a very nice dirt bike, but still. I can sustain that loss if I have to.
Jim
If the bus has over 700,000 miles showing it's probably a safe bet the bull gear and bearing have been replaced
I believe all the DL3's are a following steer tag axle, but a lot of times if they start giving issues rather than fix them the shop will just disable the system so it stays locked in place. Mine was locked and disabled when I got it. About $600 in parts and a few scraped knuckles and all is good with the universe again. If yours ends up being disabled I would highly recommend repairing and putting it back in service. It makes a huge difference in the maneuverability of the vehicle. Before I fixed mine I would have to do a 4 point turn to get through my gate but once fixed I can swoop right in without stopping.
The axle is still a option on the D4005 ,a casino here just purchased one with the non steerable axle they wanted the extra 4000 lb GVW with the straight tag axle but has a turning radius of 50 ft and the driver misses the 43 ft turning radius he had with the old bus and rear steering
Quote from: luvrbus on November 20, 2018, 05:41:33 PM
The axle is still a option on the D4005 ,a casino here just purchased one with the non steerable axle they wanted the extra 4000 lb GVW with the straight tag axle but has a turning radius of 50 ft and the driver misses the 43 ft turning radius he had with the old bus and rear steering
Did not know that. Having driven both scenarios I would not want a straight axle given a choice.
Quote from: luvrbus on November 20, 2018, 10:42:16 AM
If the bus has over 700,000 miles showing it's probably a safe bet the bull gear and bearing have been replaced
The mileage is 595,000, how do you figure the odds? What would Jimmy the Greek say if he knew buses? I'll bet that the brakes definitely need work. ::)
Well, they ponied up for the Alcoa rims so don't you think it would have the steering tag?
He said it probably needed work on the brakes so I'd say that part is a safe bet.
I asked if their title guy could handle the transfer (and re-title as an RV), waiting for a reply on that.
Jim
Titling as an RV usually requires the bus be "converted", at least having some typical RV components like a stove and toilet. It is a long shot to get a seated bus titled as an RV.
Yeah I know, we went over that on here awhile back. But, if his title guy can pull it off I'm way ahead. Some of those guys are so tight with the state people that they can just about do whatever they want. I figure an outfit that has 1500 vehicle has some pull, and if his guy is the least bit creative he'll see a way to do it. If not, then it's up to me. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Jim
Quote from: DoubleEagle on November 20, 2018, 07:49:19 PM
The mileage is 595,000, how do you figure the odds? What would Jimmy the Greek say if he knew buses? I'll bet that the brakes definitely need work. ::)
If the engine and bus has ever been to a Detroit dealer they can pull the history on the engine as quite a few upgrades were done and a Pro/link will help.He rolled the dice it is what it is now and I wish him the best
Quote from: windtrader on November 20, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
Titling as an RV usually requires the bus be "converted", at least having some typical RV components like a stove and toilet. It is a long shot to get a seated bus titled as an RV.
Some states (like Wisconsin) require a conversion with certain items installed, but there is no inspection done. They take the owner's word for it when issuing a new title.
But, a stern warning is given letting you know that if you get stopped for any reason and the officer catches the wrong plates on the bus (MH on a commercial or unconverted bu) the penalties are severe.
My severe warning came complete with a stern stare.
The two major issues to any new potential busnut.... Getting it retitled, and getting insurance. Two many wait till after purchase to their dismay. A close third is where it can be parked or stored.
If you just purchased the bus most places don't care if you have plates are not if you are going to build a rv,I driven buses from point A to B many of times with no plates.I had more problems with mine than I do most. it was titled as a RV then changed to commercial plates DOT with all the marbles, I had to go through another inspection to change back to a RV plate
Insurance
Even if they are going to transport it to you, you should be sure to have it insured before it is moved. Once the bus is yours, then you are the one with a potential loss if something should go wrong along the way.
When we bought our first bus there was over a month in time between buying it and me going to pick it up and take it home. I called and arranged insurance immediately, even for the time before I physically took possession of it.
I did this to protect against any damage to the bus. But more importantly I did this to provide liability in the event that someone was injured, even with the bus sitting still. Things happen with no way to predict or prevent them. Even more so when the bus is not in your possession. If you are the owner, then you're on the hook if there are any problems.
I doubt that this outfit took this bus to a Detroit Dealer since they are big enough to have their own service facility, and chances are they are not going to deliver it unless it is properly titled and plated with one of their employees driving it across state lines as a commercial activity. If Jim picked it up in person he would need insurance coverage on a proposed RV that has not been changed yet, and he would still be running the gauntlet of several Northeast States that can be severe (you would have to pass through New York). As Cliff said, he has rolled the dice. There was no mention of service records with the bus, which would be helpful.
Quote from: richard5933 on November 21, 2018, 06:45:53 AM
Insurance
Even if they are going to transport it to you, you should be sure to have it insured before it is moved. Once the bus is yours, then you are the one with a potential loss if something should go wrong along the way.
When we bought our first bus there was over a month in time between buying it and me going to pick it up and take it home. I called and arranged insurance immediately, even for the time before I physically took possession of it.
I did this to protect against any damage to the bus. But more importantly I did this to provide liability in the event that someone was injured, even with the bus sitting still. Things happen with no way to predict or prevent them. Even more so when the bus is not in your possession. If you are the owner, then you're on the hook if there are any problems.
If you have the right policy it covers you for transportation of a a vehicle you just purchased for 30 days mine does and she writes a binder to cover it for damages lol but I don't have Progressive.If they deliver the bus the seller is responsible for the insurance till it is delivered not Jim
Quote from: luvrbus on November 21, 2018, 07:22:17 AM
...If they deliver the bus the seller is responsible for the insurance till it is delivered not Jim
Technically you may be correct, but if there is an 'incident' or if someone is injured the attorneys are going after anyone and everyone involved. I've also seen purchase contracts from dealers that specifically mention they have no liability or coverage on the vehicle once the vehicle is sold (before delivery).
Easy enough to get ones @$$ covered, especially if he has a policy like you've mentioned.
Quote from: richard5933 on November 21, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Technically you may be correct, but if there is an 'incident' or if someone is injured the attorneys are going after anyone and everyone involved. I've also seen purchase contracts from dealers that specifically mention they have no liability or coverage on the vehicle once the vehicle is sold (before delivery).
Easy enough to get ones @$$ covered, especially if he has a policy like you've mentioned.
If the seller delivers he carries the insurance Jim has no idea what the guys name is to list him as a driver on his policy.I have a friend that delivers new KW and PeterBuilt trucks all over the US the insurance is on him till it reaches a dealer or company and he hands over the paper work and keys
I suspect that would have to be the case, even though this company often uses a contractor and will in this case. They aren't going to leave themselves open that way. I'm pretty sure KY has the 30 day rider for new purchases as well.
I think the only real question would be in the case where a breakdown occurred during delivery. Then who's responsibility is that? Mine because title has been transferred (assuming that has occurred yet), mine because the purchase price has been tendered (Prior to delivery but timing of the delivery charge is somewhat negotiable), or theirs because technically the bus is still in their possession and delivery of the goods as agreed upon has not been made? Good valid arguments can be made for each perspective. I don't honestly believe we will have to find out.
Jim
On re-titling as an RV, if it comes down to it I can try that in no less than two states and perhaps as many as six or even more. I do have friends who will look out for me. So one way or another that is going to happen. How much time and trouble it will take may be another question, but I have the time and I'm well acquainted with trouble.
Jim
I have several photos from under the bus but I don't have much of a clue what to look for to tell if it has tag axle steering or which version of it. The photos don't show a wide field either, so it's even tough to tell which axle is being viewed. What should I be looking for?
Jim
My understanding of the 30 day rule is current coverage is applied to new vehicle. In the case of the new vehicle being one that has no existing coverage, that rules likely does not apply. For example, you may have liability only coverage on cars, go out and buy a new car, and expect it to have full coverage. No go joe. The current coverage but no automatic increases to coverage just cause you bought a new car.
Quote from: windtrader on November 22, 2018, 07:56:28 PM
My understanding of the 30 day rule is current coverage is applied to new vehicle. In the case of the new vehicle being one that has no existing coverage, that rules likely does not apply. For example, you may have liability only coverage on cars, go out and buy a new car, and expect it to have full coverage. No go joe. The current coverage but no automatic increases to coverage just cause you bought a new car.
depends on the insurance co and the agent lol I have had the same agent long before the internet was around,I still have automatic coverage for a rental car collision and liability.Good insurance co's cover the person not the vehichle
Another one of those questions where it's nice to have an agent that's familiar with your particular situation. A simple phone call to our agent and I'd have answers to questions like this. Even though I believe I have coverage on new vehicles, I still call each time I'm looking to buy a vehicle to be sure nothing has changed in the policy or in what they require of me.
I do remember buying a vehicle out of state once, and there they required that I provide proof of insurance on THAT vehicle before they could process the paperwork for me to get temporary plates to drive away.
Since a bus is without a doubt much different from an auto, this is something I'd want to verify before assuming coverage was present. Also, since the vehicle still has seats and is not technically a motor home, it might be a good idea to ask the insurance agent if getting MH plates is enough for them to write the policy as a MH, or if underwriting will require bus coverage until the conversion is physically made. They may see the presence of seats in the bus as an added liability and not be so willing to provide coverage as a motor home, but rather insist on a commercial policy. In that case the automatic coverage, if present on the policy, would probably not apply.
That why you have a agent he looks out for you and you pay for it,no way would I buy insurance from the internet or over the phone lol and if they advertise on TV it makes me leery too.I set down with my agent every year and we go over our coverage to get the best bang for the buck with a good insurance co
The seller has told me that it will be covered by his insurance and with his tags on it until it is delivered. Once it gets here the first thing will be to remove all the seats and that should be finished in a couple of hours. Then the next trip it makes might be to Elkhart, about a 4-1/2 hr trip. Unless I don't have tags on it by then. I've heard there are a lot of surplus RV parts there. I'm thinking stove, refrigerator, shower, toilet, maybe some tanks or genset, maybe even an inverter/charger. Stow all that and bring it back. But before I do that I want to do some mechanical inspections. Brakes, bull gear, oil analysis, things of that nature.
That should get me started.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on November 23, 2018, 09:31:49 AM
Once it gets here the first thing will be to remove all the seats and that should be finished in a couple of hours.
Jim
Only if you have a half dozen helpers. It will take longer than you think for everything you do on a bus. It always goes quicker in the mind, but reality screws the dream up. ???
So, you're saying the DLs don't have the quick attachment system like the airlines use then? OK, well I thought I saw seat rails in the floor but maybe I was mistaken. No big deal. I have power tools and zip blades so I think I can make short work of it. The seats don't have to come out intact, after all who is going to want them? Most likely they will go to the landfill.
I've removed bus seats before, in an old IHC Bluebird. These are much newer and nicer but I expect they still are bolted in. Zip blade will go through a bolt in just a few seconds and if I don't have to preserve the appearance of either the seat or the floor it's pretty basic destruction work, which I'm quite good at. But allright, maybe more than 2 hours, sure. I do tend to underestimate. Bet I can do it in a day or less though. Any takers?
Jim
Before making a beeline to Elkhart, you may want to spend time in the bus once clear of baggage racks, seats, any removable items in the bays. Then spend time, a fair amount of time, with a roll of tape, tape measure, and do some layouts inside and underneath. Getting a good sense of where things will go will allow you to capture dimensions for equipment shopping. Going without a detailed shopping list is just asking for wasting time and money.
Elkhart..RV stuff ?
Pretty cheesy, low bid BS,IMO.
Wouldn't have any of it.
Yep, at least in Eagles the seats are bolted to the tracks, and you can spend two hours on one seat if the bolts are corroded from slushy feet and mopping, spilled sodas, etc. Hacking them out with sawsall's won't be as easy as you think. The footrests might be stainless steel and have more scrap value than the steel frames, but scrap prices are not great nowadays.
I once drove down to Denver from South Dakota to a large RV salvage yard that promised big selections, but I found nothing of real value for a bus conversion. They are useful for some people with older RV's, but that is about it. I have found more useful stuff at Habitat for Humanity Restore's, like sinks, cabinets, Corian countertop's, etc. (Contractors and individuals donate stuff for sale to benefit Habitat programs).
Habitat Restores my wife's favorite store no kidding she rather shop there than Neiman/Marcus lol when we go to Phoenix I have to make all 3 stores
Some of that makes sense, and I'll have to spend some time on a shopping list anyway. A lot will depend on what I decide to do for heat and A/C. But for starters though the potential list should probably include:
Dometec or Norcold refrigerator
Gas water heater (about 10 Gal would be good)
Propane tank
Diesel genset
Range and oven
Should I manage to score those items the trip would be well worth it.
For those items I think the standard RV bits are probably just fine. I'm not building a million dollar RV here, so I don't need gold plated and crystal lighted everything. Good quality and solid construction is what I'm going for. No cardboard or sawdust cabinets please and I'm perfectly capable of making some of them. But, things like a couch/bed would best be purchased. It's possible a shower from Home Depot or Lowes might be usable but is it going to be better than one designed for an RV? That's a decision I'll have to make. Corian is nice but for no larger than the kitchen counter is going to be I just might spring for granite there. It's an investment in durability that not much else can match. Incidentally the plan is to lay out a floorplan with masking tape as an early step, but the nice thing is that I have lots of room to work with. I'm used to about a 32 ft space that isn't as wide so this more than gives me enough for a reasonable sized workroom behind the living quarters, and I'm already pretty familiar with how big each of the interior components are. Considering that in the past I've pretty much completely rebuilt a S&S MH including pretty much every aspect of the rig, I'm not going to have much trouble with this. I just need to get familiar with the bus itself.
Jim
Jim there's a segment of the bus conversion community that likes to sneer at anything that smacks of a commercial RV but you are absolutely correct - a genset is a genset whether it is installed in a Prevost or a Glendale, obviously there's different genset manufacturers. I've always wanted to go to Elkhart myself but the closest I got so far was the RV salvage places in Quartzsite.
Enjoy your new toy.
People don't like FaceBook but there is quite a outlet for conversion parts listed on some pages anything you want can be found there at great prices
Quote from: luvrbus on November 25, 2018, 07:16:48 AM
People don't like FaceBook but there is quite a outlet for conversion parts listed on some pages anything you want can be found there at great prices
I am one of those people that never bought Facebook and their lack of concern for privacy (and love for marketing off your info), but now you add availability of parts with lots of Eagle fans, I might just dabble into that world. I'm still scared, but if Cliff recommends it.....hey, Facebook helped to weaken the Eagles International Forum because it was so easy to post pictures, I don't know. :o
Quote from: DoubleEagle on November 25, 2018, 09:33:21 AM
I am one of those people that never bought Facebook and their lack of concern for privacy (and love for marketing off your info), but now you add availability of parts with lots of Eagle fans, I might just dabble into that world. I'm still scared, but if Cliff recommends it.....hey, Facebook helped to weaken the Eagles International Forum because it was so easy to post pictures, I don't know. :o
FaceBook is ok just don't give out to much information lol some people give way to much info I don't care to know about,there is a lot of info on buses even the BNO and BCM have Facebook pages lol that is how I track Gary Hatt.lot of good info on Eagles.Prevost and MCI's just like a board though there is some times a lot of BS to wade through
Quote from: luvrbus on November 25, 2018, 09:46:26 AM
that is how I track Gary Hatt
Well, that is the clincher, we have to know where he is at.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on November 25, 2018, 09:53:20 AM
Well, that is the clincher, we have to know where he is at.
He is in Mexico drinking margarettas in his underwear priceless
The marketing of info there is blown out of proportion. Just donate money to any worthy cause and all of a sudden you get requests from EVERYBODY. We've got so many little tablets and stickers, and address labels for Linda and myself, We'll never need any more. And they keep coming.......
Facebook has its uses, necessary evil for keeping up with certain social circles...
Way closer to a wild west town with a dead Sherrif as far as accuracy of hobby information.
Without a Moderating function, there's way too much wrong info being typed out, and I swear some of it on purpose, just for the writer's self pleasure at misleading people.
Hanging around on Facebook for too long has the same effect as running the engine inside a closed garage...
Stick to the places that the big boys hang out for your quality information for busnuts.
BCM BNO and BGM
Where Gary, Ian and Scott keep things a lot closer to reality.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I don't do fakebook because I can't speak Russian...
What is BGM?
Sorry BCM
Haven't been to BPM or BMP yet but I'll get there one of these days. So far you guys have kept me pretty busy.
Tomorrow I'll ask for the maintenance records, see where that goes. Can't imagine it being much of a problem, at least I hope not. So while I'm waiting for delivery and worrying at the title knot, I seem to recall having a bit of graph paper out in the workshop so I think I'll go get that and start work on the layout. First round will be much guess work, refined in later iterations but I already have a good idea how it's going to go. Thank god the lavatory had already been removed as I'm not tempted to make that work. Another place where an RV item is preferred (ceramic toilet).
Anyway I'm thinking of maybe an 8x9 or 10 room in the back for a work area, left door into MBR with closets fore and aft of the bed, headboard to the right, then left door to tub/shower/toilet (right) and center door to kitchen, BR sink to left. Then conventional sink/stove left, fridge right, etc the rest of the way forwards. Make the center door swing right to close the toilet/shower. One twist might be to lift the head of the bed with a 12v linear actuator to get more room to walk around the foot, with just a simple wall switch by the door. Should be good for at least a couple feet of extra space and I think maybe that makes a king sized bed feasible, though a queen is probably more practical. For the couch, maybe just find one that is very comfortable to sleep on and not worry about converting to a bed, that seems to make more sense to me as it will only occasionally be used that way. Then maybe a relatively small round table for breakfast/dinner and relatively conventional comfortable chairs to go with it, possibly if room is tight making the forward one a mounted co-pilot's seat. Doesn't seem to be a lot more to the inside other than construction and finishing detail.
I will evaluate all available means of heating/cooling based on the equipment in the bus and its existing configuration and make my choices, but I'm leaning towards retaining as much of the stock system and ductwork as possible, adding new components to add flexibility. We'll see where that goes.
Leaning heavily towards stainless tanks but would consider plastic if the configuration and price is right. Location of basement items will depend on what makes sense for routing, bearing in mind the weight balance, and trying to keep as much of the bays as possible open for storage without creating maintenance headaches. On the plumbing, it does not have to run uphill all the way as long as there are drain valves at all the low points, both sides of the pump, the traps, and of course the fresh water tank. Those need to be easily accessible and have the locations marked. I'm thinking some sort of decal icon by the bay door for each one is a good idea. And just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used a dump valve on the fresh water tank? Not saying I will, I'm just curious since they are cheap and seal well. Then too, I'd like to stack the tanks and leave the bottom one elevated enough for the dump plumbing to all be inside. Have to run some calculations to see if that's feasible but it's complicated because I want the fresh tank at the top. Less chance of contamination that way. I won't know until I have the bay dimensions.
Jim
Jim, I forgot where you live but you did come by my house so you cant be too far. There is a place that makes custom plastic tanks about 10 miles north of me in martinsville. I had them make a couple tanks a few years back for a boat I had. Over Christmas I plan on going to shipshewanna/Elkhart. Will scout it out for you if you haven't made it up there yet.
Thanks for posting Gary. I wanted to get in touch but somehow I misplaced my notepad I was using on that visit and lost all my notes. Depending on logistics I could see possibly tagging along on your trip if that was any sort of possibility. If not that's OK too. Considering the bus won't get here until the middle of next month, a scouting trip would probably be a good idea just to get the lay of the land, and if I see anything I can't pass up I'm sure I can make arrangements to either ship or pick up later.
So I did a very rough preliminary floorplan and it looks like I will have plenty of space for everything I want to do. I need a more accurate interior measure of the actual usable space, particularly lengthwise, but on my current 1/4" = 1ft scale (roughly: engineering graph paper) it all seems to fit with room to spare and ample places to steal length from. The layout works. I just have to decide on a way to get the foot of the bed out of the way a bit more. Plenty of options, just have to settle on one. I sort of like the one where you just yank the entire bed up to the ceiling but that may not be the best way to do it. Not quite enough space for a full Murphy bed but but not far off. The idea has some merit.
Jim
A lot of people just buy a wrecked motorhome or travel trailer and use the components .I know this guy that paid $4000.00 for one he got a diesel generator in it with 41 hrs showing ,he got tanks,inverters,electric fridge,slides the whole ball game and sold the tires and wheels for $2000.00.LOL I tried giving a 3 tanks away one was a 110 gal fresh water,the other 2 were grey and black tanks in 3 months all I got ask was for photos and I made it clear they were free for pickup and still got asked if I would ship.I gave the tanks to guy that was here for work and he sold the tanks in 2 days on Ebay :o
The genset is likely to be the big expense and probably the item I'll spend the longest looking for. Ideally something like a 2 or 3 cylinder diesel 7 or 8 Kw should do nicely and it doesn't have to be new as all the moving parts are replaceable or rebuildable, but otoh I don't see much sense in buying something that is totally ragged out and the repair costs would be the same as buying new. Biggest problem with buying a wreck is that I might not want some of the pieces. For instance, plastic toilets are very common but not what I want. The tanks will fit awkwardly at best. The genset will probably be gasoline. The sink will likely as not be different from what I want, and so on. I agree it should be a cheap way to go, but there are certain advantages in buying the right pieces and having new, like making things fit like they should. What I'm shooting for here is to leverage my fabrication and repair capabilities to achieve a middle of the road conversion with bargain basement expenditures. So far I'm on track, and if I can do as well on the other major purchases as I've done on the first one I believe I can achieve that. I'll be using the usual major sources like craigslist and fleabay plus new ones as I come across them but I'm also not afraid to splurge on items where it makes sense, particularly if it is a key component of a larger assembly. Like paying 1/4 of what the coach cost to have it transported for instance, replacing a bull gear, or installing a granite counter top or a ceramic toilet. But by extension, a durable, attractive and reasonably priced floor makes more sense than going all out with marble and embedded LED lighting. Yeah, that looks super cool and might last forever but engineered hardwood is a better choice for me for instance. Some of these newer materials are probably better still.
I can make cabinets and drawers, that is particular work but not difficult. Overhead bins are already there in excess. Partitions are fairly easy. plumbing can be below and inside cabinets, but I do need to spend some time considering the best way to provide outlets. In one or two spots an outlet strip may make sense. Most places a cabinet or bin should make a good location provided routing the wires isn't too difficult, and I don't know how much the bus construction helps or hinders that effort.
Anyway I want to jump in and get a good start on it, enough to make it comfortably usable, then I can spend more time on the detail work on more of a pay-as-you-go basis.
Jim
Just scored an 8Kva Winco residential propane genset with automatic electronic transfer switch for $700, it was 1/2 hr away. Looks to be hardly used. Briggs and Stratton OHV twin engine, enclosure, auto start, battery and a fresh oil and filter change. Seems like a hell of a find to me, and a real good start on the parts acquisition program. Just happened to check Craigslist and there it was. Guy got it from a buddy who got it in exchange for some construction work for the householder. Should slide right into the bay.
Jim
I hope the engine gives you trouble FREE service. Some Briggs and Stratton ohv engines had problems with valve guides moving in heads, bent pushrods and camshaft breakage. Actually more than some. Google it to determine if your engine is one of the series with these issues. Fingers crossed :-\
Thanks. I don't plan to go courting trouble, if it runs OK I'll be a believer.
Cabinet is 28-1/2" tall, hope that will fit in a 102DL3 bay.
Photos attached,
Jim
Seems like a winner of a find.
Biggest thing now is to fabricate adequate ventilation to keep the thing cool during operation. Looks like it's an air-cooled unit, unless the radiator is just not shown. If so, it will need lots of air flow to keep its cool.
Well said BW!
At the risk of sounding like a downer monger, it will not have enough power to supply cooling for a 45'er with windows in the summer while going down the road. ???
At least that will get him started.
At that price I couldn't pass it up. Ideally I'd get a 10 or 12Kw unit but this one will run a couple or 3 A/C units depending on what they are. Supposedly the OTR A/C works and I intend to keep it. I'd like to find a way to switch in an AC powered compressor but that probably would mean evacuating the entire system and I understand that involves a lot of freon so it could get complicated. Luckily I have time to work on a solution to that. May have to pump out the freon to a tank, make changes and then pump it back in. That can be done if required. I might have to set up a compressor especially for that job. Anyway, since the compressor uses what are in essence check valves in the head you could have two compressors in parallel and whichever one was not pumping would not backflow. So at least in theory all I'd need is a motor and pump that will circulate a comparable amount of freon. Realistically that means something that can be flow controlled for temperature regulation, and since it is 110 or 220 powered (yes, I know, inexact quoting of voltage values. So sue me.), it's entirely possible that there is a sealed compressor of some type that will work. (What would be the tonnage of the OTR system?)
Anyway the particular information that I need right now is the dimensions of the luggage bays, particularly the height. (I just found some A series dimensions so it looks like there's plenty of room.)
I was sort of sweating this part of it and feel I've gotten off easy. Tomorrow I'll measure my big stainless tank and do some calculations to see how hard it would be to make that work. May use that as is for fresh water (weld a top on it) and add black and gray tanks but I'm afraid it will carry too much water and is probably too tall, so it will have to be cut down. That may not be a bad thing, ending up with two tanks instead. Or possibly three as it has a rear section that will almost certainly have to be separated. The numbers will tell though. Shouldn't be much cost in materials to make the modifications, but a not insignificant amount of welding. Fortunately I have the equipment and the skills.
Beyond that I'm not sure how much I can do before the bus gets here. One thing I would like to have is a compact combo washer/dryer. I've heard that they are less than ideal but think that the convenience is most likely worthwhile and should be planned for. Also wondering if a garbage compactor might not make sense. But those two items are low priority. In fact now that I think about it, I just wonder if there might be a way to put a chute to a compactor in the basement? Something to ponder.
But the best thing? Space is not a problem. I swear I believe that I could just buy all the bits and juggle them around so they fit right and then say, "Yep, that's the floor plan."
Jim
That generator should have a KW rating, you have any idea what it is I see you posted the KVA rating
after the you get past the door there is more room inside . i think it was 32-33" high inside but only 30" to the bottom of the door
I used a shoe horn to put the washer and dryer in so you should have no problem with the genny
Wow. I love that photo. Think I'd like to keep the laundry inside though if I can. Great to have full sized units though, I can see some money sitting right there.
Unless I'm mistaken Kva is the same as Kw since watts = volts x amps. I see them used pretty much interchangeably.
So I've begun looking at propane tanks, There's a 100 gallon ASME chassis mount horizontal tank that's 24" diameter by about 68" long, and a smaller one about half that size, either should work. Also need to start looking at RV refrigerators, see what I can find. I'm very reluctant to buy a used refrigerator though.
Jim
And speaking of Moderators...
This thread has been everywhere...
Start new threads when it isn't about a back bumper anymore?
This is what really screws up the "search" for those who come later, and folks with the answers don't read the thread...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
KVA rating can go either way up or down vs KW so you need to check it since KVA and KW are not always equal it will tell you on the head forget about what you read on the internet
Why an RV refrigerator? For 3-400 bucks you can boy an apartment 10 cu ft 120 volt (no 110) refer that works better and doesn't have to be level. I assume you are going to buy a good inverter and it will run for days with a good battery bank.
Also, a stacked washer/dryer works well in a bus.
Check medium and heavy duty truck wrecking yards. They sometimes have propane powered vehicles they are parting out. You could get a great deal since there is little demand for one.
I have had a Norcold 3 way fridge for30 years. Recently we decided to put in solar and minimize the electrical use in the bus. i.e. led lights and a cayalytic propane heater to supplement the propane forced air heater(BIG electric hog) Also have a 50 gallon chassis mount propane tank. If I was doing it again I would probably look at multiple portable propane tanks. Filling hasn't been a problem but I could see if full timing it could be. But then where I lice(Vancouver Canada) propane filling stations are i plentiful. Just that portable tanks give you more options-SHOULD YOU NEED THEM,.
Quote from: buswarrior on November 29, 2018, 07:05:39 AM
And speaking of Moderators...
This thread has been everywhere...
Start new threads when it isn't about a back bumper anymore?
This is what really screws up the "search" for those who come later, and folks with the answers don't read the thread...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
OK I guess? You are right. Lots here and the issues about the bumper were settled long ago. Consider it done. See this thread:
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33655.new#new
Jim
Did the city MCI's have an extended rear bumper like the front ones?
Don't know. This one is getting a repaired bumper from the bus that got the original one. Hope it isn't too ugly.
Jim
If the repaired one sucks, you can probably get one from Luke.
Thanks, that's a good tip.
Jim
I have had a Norcold 3 way fridge for 30 years.
which was in the heyday of, or the end of the quality and pride of craftsmanship in that realm...
today and in the last 10 years...not so much.
Quote from: gumpy on November 19, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
My bus never had a rear bumper from the day I bought it. 18 years and 85,000 miles and counting, never a problem. I actually have one lined up, but have to make a trip to MT to get it. One of these years.
I still have it LOL
John
Quote from: Jriddle on December 02, 2018, 08:59:09 AM
I still have it LOL
John
It's still on my to-do list! :D
Will send an email...
So as the last post for this thread I wanted to link to the discussion that leads into it. It wasn't my thread but I joined in the discussion which was basically a wide ranging commentary on the merits of a number of different buses and what features and advantages they had. By the end of the discussion I had decided on the D series MCI, 1994 or newer as the coach of choice. Many other threads played a part in the decision but by that point the search was on.
"Considering a Bus Purchase"
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33437.0
By the end of this thread I had actually made a purchase and was arranging delivery. The saga continues in:
"Building the 102DL3"
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33655.0
Which mainly runs through most of the stripping out of the unneeded interior parts, acquisition of operator's and Maintenance manuals, and discovery of a number of the bus's features.
Please don't comment further on this thread as that will cover up the linking information above.
Jim