Been Four down towing for five decades, having never towed with any sort of supplemental braking system. In an attempt to comply with many different state & provincial laws pertaining to four down supplemental braking we are contemplating setting up supplemental braking for our toad. Their are so many units on the market, been go batty trying to sort it all out. For those who have &/or are using supplemental braking on their four down toads please chime it with opinions, comments or recommendations on these products. Thanks!
We use the NSA surge brake. And break away cable. Works great and is mechanical. No air or electric needed and a lot cheaper than the fancy ones.
roadmaster air with break away
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhscdn5-hitchsource.netdna-ssl.com%2Fimages%2Fthumbnails%2FBrakemaster2.jpg._.thumb_387x400.jpg&hash=b03c3c7671b27f00feb91b00991107edc2a11c8e)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadmasterinc.com%2Fimg%2Fbreakaway_kit.png&hash=46f4587e0b59dbe1b7ab89e5d4c9c0f81060196f)
I second the vote for NSA surge brake. Close to perfect. Cheap, reliable, fast to install and easy to use.
Some one showed me the kind that does not require any extra installation steps such as drilling for brackets and such. The one I saw just lays on the floor somehow. Others know what I'm talking about. Sounded cool but I already have one so wasn't taking detail notes.
Love my Roadmaster. Great feeling of security working off the bus air.
Mike in GA
If the M&G will fit the Jeep that is the one I would go with,check their site for your year and model of your vehicle it mounts between the master cylinder and the booster simple and works nothing mounts on the pedal,Air Force one is a good system it's the most popular unit now. I haven't used one of their new systems people that use it love the system
I had the Roadmaster "direct" brake system with the cylinder that you put on your brake pedal and seat rail and hook to an air line every time you hook up. It was not difficult but not that easy either trying to work under the dash panel.
When I sold my Jeep and started towing my Lexus, I decided to go with the Roadmaster Invisibrake system. It is all automatic. You don't have to hook up anything for your brakes to work. You simply hook up your tow bar and your light cable and put the toad in the proper gear and ensure the e-brake is released and you are ready to go. VERY SIMPLE and I highly recommend it. With this system it also charges your battery while hooked up and also has a break-a-way system which applies the brakes if your toad gets away. It also does not need an air line hooked into your air brake system so it is easier.
Check it out here. http://roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/sys_for_me.html
Gary
Wait...Lexus???? And we are sending you money for forum?lol
Quote from: chessie4905 on October 19, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
Wait...Lexus???? And we are sending you money for forum?lol
It is an old Lexus and it is paid for. :-)
Gary, you have a transmission pump on the Lexus ? mine I am afraid to tow 4 down so we tow the Envoy
My dad towed two different Fwd Cutlass Cieras with lube pumps for several thousand miles with no issues behind the 4104. Later, he switched to a Chevy /GEO metro to reduce towing weight and stopping distance.
Thanks for your responses! We are favoring the M&G unit but don't think it will fit our application. We find our vehicle in the M&G vehicle compatibility chart but in measuring under the hood - there is only 1/2" between the front of the master cylinder & the rear electrical distribution box. We contacted M&G & are awaiting their response. Also interested in the Roadmaster BrakeMaster System w Brake Away for RVs w Air Brakes - Proportional. Its half the price as AF1 & can be moved to another vehicle but does require uninstall & reinstall between towing & driving the toad. We like the AF1 but install is very involved & unit permanently attached to the brake pedal arm under the dash may clutter an already compact driver's cockpit for an 6'+ guy. Don't know where this will land but appreciate all the feedback.
Here's a different kind of system, does anyone have experience with it?
http://www.usgear.cc/unified_tow_brake.htm
Quote from: dtcerrato on October 19, 2018, 07:22:39 PM
Also interested in the Roadmaster BrakeMaster System w Brake Away for RVs w Air Brakes - Proportional. Its half the price as AF1 & can be moved to another vehicle but does require uninstall & reinstall between towing & driving the toad.
The Roadmaster air can be had often on Ebay for small $'s.
There isn't much that can wear out.
Quote from: eagle19952 on October 20, 2018, 09:38:09 AM
The Roadmaster air can be had often on Ebay for small $'s.
There isn't much that can wear out.
I still have my original Roadmaster air cylinder brake system that I installed on my Jeep and it is just like new. It is about a year old and only used for about three trips. I would be interested in selling it for half of what a new one costs if anyone is interested. Send me a PM if interested.
Gary
I have about 5k miles with my NSA surge brake system now towing a Jeep Wrangler, and no hiccups yet. Simple and effective. Two of my favorite things.
Check Craigslist or adhuntr. In time, one of what you want will come up for sale.
Gary, If I decide to go after the Roadmaster I'll contact you, thanks. We're in & out of the toad often so may try & hold out for a permanent setup w/o detaching/attaching. We really like the M&G, waiting for a response from them but don't think it'll work. The AF1 is a real nice set up, like the vacuum boost feature... This ought to land somewhere sooner or later.
Does anyone have experience with Smart Brake SB1015? It's the only supplemental dingy braking that can utilize any trailer brake controller & even offers their kit w/o their controller for a discount! What really interests me is the fact that we're already using our familiar controller & can do it at will besides being automatic. We use the Tekonsha Prodigy-have it in the bus & in the toad. Does anyone on the board have experience with Smart Brake SB1015?
Ordered the M&G 2.0 supplemental braking system last night & saved some $$$$ for Black Monday sale. Cliff recommended M&G & for good reason. It's so nice to see domestic quality (brass & aluminum vs. plastic). The only modification between the bus & the toad is one single air line! Hope its what we expect - while on the subject of brakes, we pulled the back drums off to repack/replace bearing & seals. Some may remember when we had bad brake burn on a downhill on the Icefield parkway in Alberta, well the PS rear underneath brake block had a big piece break off of it and wedged into the ventilator holes in the drum. Glad we're putting brakes to the toad...
Quote from: Mike in GA on October 19, 2018, 06:44:28 AM
Love my Roadmaster. Great feeling of security working off the bus air.
Mike in GA
I agree with Mike, have had one for six years, one time I feel it help stop, not rear ending a car in a panic stop. I personally do not like surge braking, even though backing up four down is tough it is impossible with surge and going up hill. Murphy's law will take effect when you get yourself in the wrong spot and you will be unhooking.
Quote from: Mike in GA on October 19, 2018, 06:44:28 AM
Love my Roadmaster. Great feeling of security working off the bus air.
Mike in GA
I agree with Mike, have had one for six years, one time I feel it help stop, not rear ending a car in a panic stop. I personally do not like surge braking, even though backing up four down is tough it is impossible with surge and going up hill. Murphy's law will take effect when you get yourself in the wrong spot and you will be unhooking.
Quote from: dtcerrato on October 19, 2018, 07:22:39 PM
Thanks for your responses! We are favoring the M&G unit but don't think it will fit our application. We find our vehicle in the M&G vehicle compatibility chart but in measuring under the hood - there is only 1/2" between the front of the master cylinder & the rear electrical distribution box. We contacted M&G & are awaiting their response. Also interested in the BrakeMaster System w Brake Away for RVs w Air Brakes - Proportional. Its half the price as AF1 & can be moved to another vehicle but does require uninstall & reinstall between towing & driving the toad. We like the AF1 but install is very involved & unit permanently attached to the brake pedal arm under the dash may clutter an already compact driver's cockpit for an 6'+ guy. Don't know where this will land but appreciate all the feedback.
We were in the same boat, really like M&G but would not fit, went with BrakeMaster System, Like the ease of use & size for storage.
The standard M&G (unit between the master cylinder & vacuum booster) wouldn't fit our Jeep either. We went with the M&G 2.0 air cylinder unit. Like the fact that the only thing through the fire wall is a tiny pull cable, everything is under the hood.
Quote from: dtcerrato on November 24, 2018, 04:14:31 AM
The standard M&G (unit between the master cylinder & vacuum booster) wouldn't fit our Jeep either. We went with the M&G 2.0 air cylinder unit. Like the fact that the only thing through the fire wall is a tiny pull cable, everything is under the hood.
Let us know how it works out I have a the older model and I am sure when we buy a new tow vehicle it not going to interchange and I want to stay with M&G if possible
I too, love my Roadmaster Instabrake and Tow Defender. I toured their factory and they definitely make a very high quality product. Solid bars vs hollow is one differentiation between them and their competitors.
http://roadmasterinc.com/
Gary
If this is what it costs...wow!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-G-Brake-RV-MotorHome-Air-M-G-Towed-Car-Braking-System-Version-2-0-V2-0-/282866810382?redirect=mobile
Got it for less than that with the air line install kit - Black sale deal.
It's nice you lucked out on a sale deal. You don't see systems like that on sale.
Quote from: luvrbus on November 24, 2018, 06:37:08 AM
I have a the older model and I am sure when we buy a new tow vehicle it not going to interchange and I want to stay with M&G if possible
If you look on their website they list what models fit what vehicles so you can tell if your old one will work. also I think you can trade in your old one to save $
Quote from: sixtyseven on November 24, 2018, 11:26:36 PM
If you look on their website they list what models fit what vehicles so you can tell if your old one will work. also I think you can trade in your old one to save $
yep I have done a couple of trade in over the years
Received shipment of the M&G supplemental brake system today. I got to say I was impressed as to the quality of components & parts. Aluminum, brass, metal over plastic. Lots of made in USA printed. Especially with all the Amazon & Ebay shopping I do. Looking forward to installing it but may not be until after the holidays. I'll circle back on how that goes & its operation.
Just so you know... According to Roadmasterinc.com the most popular towed cars using their tow bars in 2017 order were the following in case you were in the market for a new Toad.
96-2018 Jeep Wranglers
2011-2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2007-2014 Honda CRV (not towable after 2014)
2015-2018 Chevy Colorado & GMC Canyon
2013-2018 Ford F-150
2010-2017 Chevy Equinox & GMC Terrain
2002-2012 Jeep Liberty
2012-2018 Fiat 500
2013-2018 Ford CMAX
2007-2016 GMC Acadia
2008-2017 Buick Enclave & 2009-2012 Chevy Traverse
Curious why the Jeep GC only goes back to 2011 - it should go back earlier. They're a breeze to tow like the newer ones. just saying. Our GMC Sierra was as easy as any popular toad but probably larger/heavier than most want to tow. While sitting in a parking (camping) lot in Whitehorse Canada, I had a Prevost group come to us & congratulate us for having the largest/heaviest toad on the lot. Never realized it until they brought it up. The IL671 pulls anything just fine if you don't mind turtle speed - we never did... :)
I'm speculating but based on the reported car vintages, they may be basing their numbers on what they sold last year.
Quote from: windtrader on December 05, 2018, 11:27:47 AM
I'm speculating but based on the reported car vintages, they may be basing their numbers on what they sold last year.
Your are right Don they just go back to 1996 on the Jeep Wrangler
A follow up - finally completed the toad supplemental braking system. Many hours on wiring for lights including toad backup lights activated with bus backup lights and a toad brake application indicator light in bus drivers cockpit. The awesome thing I found out about the system is the toad brakes don't apply until about 35psi - up to that point the bus brakes are already applying. This tells me the toad brakes "lag" which is great for decreased wear on the toad. At greater that 35 psi to 50 psi both are doing some hard braking & it's truly progressive. There is virtually nothing in the toad behind the firewall except a tiny cable & clamp to the brake pedal. Everything is under the hood (air cylinder, vacuum pump, & breakaway tank & circuits). Looking forward to road testing (including four new shocks) :)
very nice
ok I will ask .... has anyone ever been pulled over about towed braking and get a ticket ?
Quote from: sledhead on January 14, 2019, 05:31:42 AM
ok I will ask .... has anyone ever been pulled over about towed braking and get a ticket ?
I never have but my concern is if you have an accident and you did not take prudent measures to ensure the safety of you and your passengers and other vehicles then they may throw the book at you and your insurance company may not cover you. Better safe than sorry.
Just had the Roadmaster InvisiBrake installed on my car. Totally independent of the bus, uses the running lights as a trickle charger. Have yet to try it. Will try it Thursday on way to Quartzite. Good Luck, TomC
Okay Dave, you asked the right person here! Answer is No. Been running for 40 years without supplement braking on many different toads - light (VW Beetle) to heavy (full size PU /Camper). What made believers out of us was two fold - 1st a suicide downhill in Alberta Canada caught us by surprise -we survived that one. Then totalling our truck & still dealing with law suit. Fact of the matter is the laws are out there for every state & province on the continent but not enforced & insurance companies can & will default to not pay claims if proper equipment wasn't in place. In our case we decided to get on the other end of "luck" due to our exposure on 15 thousand mile round road trips & having to drive so defensively for all the stupidity & multi tasking going on during driving these days.
I never felt that there was a need for the auxiliary toad brake but wanted to comply with the law for that very liability reason that Sledhead mentioned. Therefore, I picked up a cheap used Brake Buddy off of Craigslist. I really do not know how well it works in an emergency like a breakaway, which would really be scary. However, it seems to be reasonable compliance to me.
I was curious though, if some units are activated by an airline from the bus, what happens if that line is severed in a breakaway?
I have built my own supplemental brake system. The break away is simply a three way valve, a small air tank for a reservoir and a 3 way air valve. The air tank is made out of 3" ABS. The tank is filled every time the breaks are applied and preserved in the tank by a 1 way check valve. Should the truck ever come un-hitched or break away the 3 way air valve will be pulled to the opposite valve opening by a lanyard between the truck and the bus. This will dump the air into the piston which pushes against the brake pedal. The air tank has enough volume to apply the brakes once. Once is all that would be needed. It is not the most elegant solution, but it works.
Lin the last photo I posted a little earlier in this post shows the break away system for that reason. It is a small tank that stores compressed air on the toad. If the toad breaks away from the towing vehicle, the safety lanyard gets pulled & activates a switch to release air from the break away tank to apply the toad brakes to bring it to a controlled stop. I can't imagine how a toad would be able to disconnect with the safety chains (or cables) but it is part of a fully operational supplemental braking system.
Hi Brian.
Quote from: TomC on January 14, 2019, 02:38:09 PM
Just had the Roadmaster InvisiBrake installed on my car. Totally independent of the bus, uses the running lights as a trickle charger. Have yet to try it. Will try it Thursday on way to Quartzite. Good Luck, TomC
I had the same system installed on my Lexus this summer. I like it much better than having to hook a mechanism up to my brake pedal. It is all automatic.
Gary
Quote from: dtcerrato on January 14, 2019, 05:46:51 PM
Hi Brian.
Hi Dan. Nice to see you making progress. Are you heading back up to Alaska this year? I wish I was!
Yes we are planning on making the trip. Besides all the bus work we've been accumulating electrical & plumbing to cart up with us to establish utilities on our parcel for full hook ups. It's amazing it'll be 3 years & we feel like we've been trying to return since we left! Wishing you & your family a happy, heatlhy & prosperous New Year.