Nowhere near finished with the conversion, but wife n I have been sorta shoppin for a toad...considering trading her 09 gmc sierra w 69k miles for jeep of some kind, but something not lifted so high we have to climb our old butts into it...Not liking the $$ on the jeeps, AND the missus is having 2nd thoughts on getting rid of her baby...My truck, an 06 f250 super duty, full size bed, 4 dr, manual tranny.
Big truck...
I read of a guy with an f150 toad...
Would I be asking too much of my 37 yr old 8v71? Would love to spend that Jeep money on the bus...And having something capable of moving that bus if needed is also appealing...
Thoughts???
Thanks
I have pulled my work pickup ( 03 F-350 diesel with service body 10,000 lbs) with our bus.
It works but you definitely know it's back there. I wouldn't want to drag it around everywhere we go.
The biggest thing to consider is having to stop real fast due to a "situation". Consider supplemental braking. Also your combined rig is going to be pretty lengthy
What does the F250 weigh?
Compared to your other choices?
Compared to a full load of passengers?
The toad you already own is the cheapest toad to have...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I bought a 2002 Minicooper standard. You can flat toe it and st about 2000 I hardly notice it back there. And it was cheap.
Almost every state now requires supplemental breaking on any toad over 1500#. Cheap and easy to deal with now days. I can't even imagine the liability of doing without.
I know, thread drift--but it is an ax that needs grinding. Jack
Quote from: buswarrior on October 14, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
What does the F250 weigh?
Mine is 2WD (same box/cab) and it weights in at just under 9000 LBS driver in ... (before dinner!)
https://www.google.com/search?q=curb+weight+of+06+f250+crew+cab&oq=curb+weight+of+06+f250+crew+cab&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.33942j0j8&client=tablet-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
I have a 2005 F250, so a little familiar with the truck. As far as I know, the only version that is rated for flat towing is the automatic or manual 4WD with manual transfer case. The 2WD manual/automatic transmission and the automatic with shift-on-fly automatic transfer case aren't rated for flat towing, as far as I know.
As far as weight is concerned, it's going to be between roughly 6,000 and 8,000 lbs empty, depending on options. GVWR is 9,900-ish. Obviously the diesel engine auto 4WD crew cab long bed is going to the the heaviest, and a 2WD plain cab short bed with the small V8 is going to be lightest. Oddly, the littlest, lightest truck has almost 1,000 lbs higher load capacity than the biggest, heaviest truck. I wouldn't be concerned weight-wise towing up to around 8K lbs with an MC-9 presuming you have the right hitch and dialed-in brakes on the towed vehicle. The bus stops a lot faster than it accelerates, the loads on the hitch stopping can be three or four times the load accelerating. Obviously there is no tongue weight flat towing.
We have a 1995 wrangler Jeep TJ and the only thing i would get different is the straight 6 engine. They are good to climb hills but not so much on the hyway. But either way vary easy to setup and tow. Put it in Neutral and go. :)
We used to pull our F250 with a full camper shell & loaded with our IL671 NA Detroit in our 04. It was an automatic so we'd disconnect the driveshaft & tie the rear up with wire. It towed it swell but knew it was back there! We've towed trailer up to 10,000 lbs with the same bus. Our favorite toad of em all was a 77 Jeep CJ5. We now tow an 09 Jeep GC.
Quote from: Jim Eh. on October 14, 2018, 08:50:36 PM
Mine is 2WD (same box/cab) and it weights in at just under 9000 LBS driver in ... (before dinner!)
Must be hauling a ton as my 2017 Ford F250 Superduty Supercrew 4x4 gasser weighs in at about 6400 pounds.
Quote from: oltrunt on October 14, 2018, 07:39:31 PM
Almost every state now requires supplemental breaking on any toad over 1500#. Cheap and easy to deal with now days. I can't even imagine the liability of doing without.
I know, thread drift--but it is an ax that needs grinding. Jack
What state requires supplemental brakes on a toad,Canada does I use one for safety but it's not required,brakes are option even on the tow dolly 90 % of those don't have brakes
Quote from: bevans6 on October 15, 2018, 06:06:08 AM
I have a 2005 F250, so a little familiar with the truck. As far as I know, the only version that is rated for flat towing is the automatic or manual 4WD with manual transfer case. The 2WD manual/automatic transmission and the automatic with shift-on-fly automatic transfer case aren't rated for flat towing, as far as I know.
As far as weight is concerned, it's going to be between roughly 6,000 and 8,000 lbs empty, depending on options. GVWR is 9,900-ish. Obviously the diesel engine auto 4WD crew cab long bed is going to the the heaviest, and a 2WD plain cab short bed with the small V8 is going to be lightest. Oddly, the littlest, lightest truck has almost 1,000 lbs higher load capacity than the biggest, heaviest truck. I wouldn't be concerned weight-wise towing up to around 8K lbs with an MC-9 presuming you have the right hitch and dialed-in brakes on the towed vehicle. The bus stops a lot faster than it accelerates, the loads on the hitch stopping can be three or four times the load accelerating. Obviously there is no tongue weight flat towing.
Mine is 6 spd manual transmission, but the 4wd is electronic switch on the dash....flat towable??
Here is what it says for Wash State.
"(4) Automatic trailer brake application upon breakaway. Every trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer equipped with air or vacuum actuated brakes and every trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer with a gross weight in excess of three thousand pounds, manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1964, shall be equipped with brakes acting on all wheels and of such character as to be applied automatically and promptly, and remain applied for at least fifteen minutes, upon breakaway from the towing vehicle."
And here is what it says for B.C.(Canada)
"Motorhome and Towed Motor Vehicle – If the towed motor vehicle has a gross vehicle weight of less than 2,000 kg (4,400 Ibs) and is less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating of the motorhome, brakes and coordinated brake control are not required."
I used to flat tow a Samurai behind our 32' S&S but then began loading it on my flatbed trailer instead, and liked that much better. No need to unhitch to back up, and no worries about the transmission. Once on a flat tow I had neglected to shift the T-case into neutral, noticed it at the first stop. Didn't seem to hurt anything, I just got lucky. In my opinion the lighter the toad is the better, and if it can be small enough to find a way to carry it instead of putting more tires on the ground, better yet. Still working on that one.
Jim
Quote from: OKIE9ERS on October 15, 2018, 09:48:49 AM
Mine is 6 spd manual transmission, but the 4wd is electronic switch on the dash....flat towable??
This is what it says on the website but I wasn't sure which engine you have
•Vehicle can be flat towed if it contains a Manual Transfer Case. Follow procedures in Owner's Manual to flat tow correctly. If vehicle has an Electronic Transfer Case then it will require A Drive Shaft Coupling (Disconnect) to tow. Remco Industries no longer sells the Drive Shaft Coupling. If interested in a Drive Shaft Coupling, please contact Just for Towing (http://www.swdriveline.com) or David at Drive Shaft King (800-442-6329).
http://www.remcotowing.com/Towing/Store.php
I personally wouldn't want to tow that big of a vehicle. Honda CRVs are good to tow but you have to make sure it's towable. They were stupid and the new ones aren't flat towable anymore.
https://rvibrake.com/pages/flat-towing-law
M&G are about the only manufacture for supplemental brakes that won't try to convince you they are required by law lol that is why i purchased a M&G system
I have thought about making a toad braking system out of a 3030 brake chamber for towing my service truck. Just haven't got around to it yet. I know someone on this Board made one and said it worked great. Then people started yacking about liability.
Quote from: Geoff on October 15, 2018, 12:48:30 PM
I have thought about making a toad braking system out of a 3030 brake chamber for towing my service truck. Just haven't got around to it yet. I know someone on this Board made one and said it worked great. Then people started yacking about liability.
That should work a 30/30 maybe a little over kill though
Yeah, be careful, a 30/30 has a lot of power...
Air pressure times 30 is the pounds to the brake pedal, and to what you mount it to...
You can break something.
A regulator would be a handy addition to the design?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I recall you can get one already setup to do this. Smaller chamber, maybe 10 to 15. I'll see if I can still find it.Here:
https://www.demco-products.com/rv-towing/supplemental-brakes/air-force-one/
And here:
http://www.usgear.cc/unified_tow_brake.htm
Whatever size air brake chambers you use it is a matter of air regulation/pressure to have it working right. On my service truck it has a brake hydraulic booster that would not be running, so it takes a lot of force to apply the brakes.
I know one company that sells a Hyd pump to work with the toad braking system, but they are $$$$$$.
Just adjust the air pressure to the toad down till the tires stop smoking.lol
Quote from: Geoff on October 15, 2018, 04:04:22 PM
Whatever size air brake chambers you use it is a matter of air regulation/pressure to have it working right. On my service truck it has a brake hydraulic booster that would not be running, so it takes a lot of force to apply the brakes.
I know one company that sells a Hyd pump to work with the toad braking system, but they are $$$$$$.
My M&G the air pod goes between the booster and the master cylinder taking the booster out of the circuit so there is stress on anything
http://www.hitchsource.com/mg-car-braking-systems-p-32964.html?page=all
Nothing wrong with a DIY toad brake system but from the design aspect it is hard to design the wheel lock up action required should the toad get loose while maintaining modulated pressure for normal braking. Jack
Quote from: oltrunt on October 15, 2018, 05:30:42 PM
Nothing wrong with a DIY toad brake system but from the design aspect it is hard to design the wheel lock up action required should the toad get loose while maintaining modulated pressure for normal braking. Jack
Yes there is. The parking brake chamber gets activated when it's air line is ripped off.
trailer air brake handle
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2040-parts.com%2F_content%2Fitems%2Fimages%2F27%2F23827%2F002.jpg&hash=46e8a55c0a4bc1a9ada21776cdc59c330d02dc07)
Quote from: OKIE9ERS on October 15, 2018, 09:48:49 AM
Mine is 6 spd manual transmission, but the 4wd is electronic switch on the dash....flat towable??
No, not as far as Ford is concerned. That is "ESOF", electronic shift on the fly. Only the manual transfer case is towable per the Ford literature.
That manual air apply lever would like the slider on electric trailer brakecontrollers. The only reason that I can see to justify hauling that heavy a toad is being able to tow your coach to a safe place if it breaks down. Of course you'll need a way to control the coach brakes while towing, and an auxiliary air supply if engine won't run........
There are enough cheap used vehicles to become a toad so as not to haul that big looong heavy truck around.
If you are that worried about the bus breaking down, fit it with a tow bar and then if it does go, rent a truck big enough to tow it. U-haul, Ryder, whatever. Park the (reasonable sized) toad in the back of the rental truck and away you go.
Thanks everyone for the input..
Seems to be a moot point now anyway since my "shift on the fly" Ford isnt flat towable anyway.
The toad hunt continues
If you can find a mid late 90's Jeep
Grand Cherokee, (in VG to EX) condition they are pretty nice, easily towed toads.
I towed a 1996 Sonoma for many years. It was a light pick up with 5 speed transmission. I now tow a '05 GMC Canyon. I still have all the tow equipment for the Sonoma which I listed for sale in the Spare Tire section of this Board. There are a lot of these Sonoma S10 for sale.
Quote from: muldoonman on October 15, 2018, 07:49:33 AM
Must be hauling a ton as my 2017 Ford F250 Superduty Supercrew 4x4 gasser weighs in at about 6400 pounds.
Well I must have been thinking of my after dinner gross weight :o.
Actually <9000 was the weight of my 5th wheel trailer. The truck is a tad over 7100. Just a little cixelsyd.