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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: RFarris on October 13, 2018, 10:40:38 AM

Title: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 13, 2018, 10:40:38 AM
Where would one go to look up an older GM 4104 to see where it was in service and when converted?
Richard
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: Templar52 on October 13, 2018, 11:20:37 AM
Facebook 4104 bus group
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on October 13, 2018, 03:58:00 PM
Post the serial number and I can help
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 15, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
Thank you its 4104 3456
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RJ on October 15, 2018, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: RFarris on October 15, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
Thank you its 4104 3456

PD4104-3456 was delivered new as fleet number T-2943 in January of 1958 to Tamiami Trail Tours, HQ'd in Tampa, FL.  Tamiami was a Trailways affiliate.

FWIW & HTH. . .

;)
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on October 16, 2018, 06:23:28 AM
RFarris,

Your bus was delivered to Tamiami Trails in same batch as mine. s/n 3453-3462 fleet# T2940-T2949. I have s/n 3462, fleet#T-2949
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 16, 2018, 03:42:45 PM
What a coincidence Im in Florida where is your 4104

Also do you know when the 4104s changed to negative ground or was that changed only by doing a conversion?

Richard
4104-3456



Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on October 16, 2018, 04:59:18 PM
RFarris

My 04 is one of four seated GM coaches I own. I am in Peoria, IL. I bought my 04 from a good friend (Fred Rayman) of mine in Oklahoma City, OK. Fred drove for Oklahoma Transportation Co./Jefferson Lines for almost 40 years. He bought the coach directly from charter service. Mine has been switched to negative ground, but that was done years later after revenue service. My Scenicruiser is still positive ground. 
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 17, 2018, 05:16:24 AM
Thanks for the reply. 
I know of three 4104s in Loxahatchee Florida a '57,'53 and a '58 guy named Roger has on his property.
I haven't seen a scenicruiser in years, will keep a lookout
RF
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on October 17, 2018, 06:59:50 AM
Hi Richard

My buddy Jon here keeps the registry of surviving 4104s by location, owner, and serial number (seated or converted). If you could get those three serials that would be greatly appreciated. Or get us a contact or location if too inconvenient for you. I know of a few Scenics in Florida. In my opinion, the nicest belongs to Ash Dovel of Daytona Beach. (attached photo) Do you have any photos of your bus you could post? Thanks. Take care.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 17, 2018, 01:28:37 PM
I will try to get his email address for you I think we found him on Facebook.  Name is Roger his phone number is 561 793 4401 Loxahatchee, FL.
He says he has parts so Im going to call him again.
By the way Im leaving for Tampa tomoro to get our bus. Having it towed.  Any cautions I need to know. I believe pulling
the drive shaft is necessary, how about the axals
RF
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: chessie4905 on October 17, 2018, 02:59:55 PM
If you pull the axles, you won't have to mess with driveshaft. If it still has the brake drum at the transmission end of driveshaft, it is a real pita to disconnect.
Put rags in end of axle tubes to keep oil from running out. 4104's origonally came with grease packed rear bearings, and if yours does, no problem. If it is oil lubed from axles, squirt some gear oil into them from quart gear oil bottle. They come with a pointed cap so you can squirt some in. If you are going more than 100 miles, stop every 100 and add some more if necessary. Good luck
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: buswarrior on October 17, 2018, 03:23:00 PM
Coffee cups also have been known to be decent make-shift axle pluggers.

A well equipped tow truck might have block-off plates.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on October 17, 2018, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: RFarris on October 17, 2018, 01:28:37 PM
I will try to get his email address for you I think we found him on Facebook.  Name is Roger his phone number is 561 793 4401 Loxahatchee, FL.
He says he has parts so Im going to call him again.
By the way Im leaving for Tampa tomoro to get our bus. Having it towed.  Any cautions I need to know. I believe pulling
the drive shaft is necessary, how about the axals
RF
Thanks Richard. Good luck on your bus adventure.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on October 23, 2018, 04:51:38 PM
Im now looking for side windows for a 4104. Motion Glass no longer offers them.
Anyone know of a source.  I really need the frames.

Richard
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on November 02, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Well now I need a new radiator or the pans top and bottom and sides.
Cores can be made. does anyone have info regarding a source for these?

1958 GM 4104-3456

Richard
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: chessie4905 on November 02, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
Check with Luke at USCoach. He seems to be able to source most items.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on November 30, 2018, 02:06:50 PM
Does anyone know what the switch labeled:  " overrule switch for moto gard" was?
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: Geoff on December 01, 2018, 07:17:53 AM
Quote from: RFarris on November 30, 2018, 02:06:50 PM
Does anyone know what the switch labeled:  " overrule switch for moto gard" was?

That would have to be the override switch for the engine safety shut down system.  i.e., overheating, low oil pressure.  The override gives you time to pull over.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: dtcerrato on December 01, 2018, 08:01:37 AM
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm in accurate) all 4104s we're positive ground. Our 53 conversion was positive ground most of it's life. We just converted it to neg. ground this year. The chassis changeover was a piece of cake but the "over the years" conversion was a real PITA. Always had separate chassis & house batteries.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: dtcerrato on December 01, 2018, 08:04:03 AM
On our 04 the rear emergency door was also wired in with the moto- guard system. That system is still active in operation in our bus.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on December 01, 2018, 02:57:47 PM
Thanks everyone that make sense now.  Our bus was converted some years ago to negative ground. I'v found a few grounding straps added to the frame work.
Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: richard5933 on December 01, 2018, 03:19:13 PM
Inspect those grounding straps well, along with any other ground connections you run across. These are a very common source of all sorts of electrical problems. Even straps that look good on the outside can have rot inside them and be compromised, so check thoroughly. I've removed, cleaned, and reinstalled lots of ground connections all over our bus. Usually I replace the connecting hardware unless it's really clean, and then use dielectric grease to protect them after things are back together.
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: TomC on December 02, 2018, 07:44:55 AM
I drive on highway 118 in L.A. area and see a 4501 parked at a farm in the Moorpark/Simi Valley area. Wonder if you know about it? Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on December 02, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
Hi Tom

You have my attention. The 4501 location does not sound familiar. Can you give any more details on exact location (crossroad, landmark, etc.) that I may be able to find the bus on Google Earth? Thanks
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on December 19, 2018, 04:28:52 PM
Does an air pressure of only 40 psi on the gage indicate a large leak or could there be another problem.

R Farris
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: TomC on December 19, 2018, 05:07:58 PM
4501 is on 118 about halfway between Somis and Moorpark just west of the Moorpark Reclamation Facility on the south side of the highway. First farm west of the Reclamation Facility. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: richard5933 on December 19, 2018, 05:37:37 PM
Low air pressure could be a leak, could be a bad governor on the compressor, a bad compressor, a bad gauge, or any number of other issues.

Can you confirm the gauge is correct by putting a gauge on the system near the compressor somewhere? Maybe you have a quick connect fitting in the engine bay?
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: buswarrior on December 19, 2018, 05:42:26 PM
A good compressor can make close to 40 lbs with a drain valve held open.

What is the temperature where you are? Frozen valves are a popular disabling occurrence this time of year.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on December 19, 2018, 07:12:42 PM
Thanks for the 4501 location info Tom. I appreciate that. I checked Google earth in that area, but can not locate the bus. It may not show up when image was captured. It seems Google is not always current. The view of my place is several years old due to particular vehicles that were present in image. Take care

Tom
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: TomC on December 20, 2018, 08:48:04 AM
I also looked at Google Maps and also Mapquest, and no the buses were not there. From driving by, this guy has a FMC motorhome, Newell motorhome, PD4501, Flx Clipper, and one other. A real bus nut. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: pd4501-771 on December 20, 2018, 10:09:19 AM
Tom

I would be forever grateful if you would stop and get me the serial number off the 4501. (and maybe a photo or two?) If owners are home, I presume you know where to get the serial number from the driver's tool compartment. Or if no one is around, you could drop a note in their mailbox. Your note could explain my registry and request they contact me with their info: Tom McNally- Peoria, IL (309)253-2169 tonemcnally@hotmail.com

Thanks!
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: RFarris on December 25, 2018, 03:29:18 PM
Hey All,
Do any of you know what GM used to seal the inside of the buses?  It is black like a cold tar epoxy or maybe something else.

RFarris
Title: Re: older bus information
Post by: dtcerrato on December 25, 2018, 07:03:27 PM
Our 53 - 4104 has it EVERYWHERE & heavy & thick too. It appears to be an asphalt based product similar too the old fashion high quality undercoating - not like the thin diluted crap in aerosol cans of today.