Hi everyone, I'm new to the community here and have been looking at and researching buses; Specifically Silver Eagles and Prevost, but that may expand the more I learn.
I will eventually buy one, but need to finish my research before I pull the trigger on one.
I was wanting to know if any of you guys know where I can find a checklist or a just a list of important things to look at before buying; like best engines/transmissions, years that had bad wiring, buses more accessible to rust, or anything that could be a deal breaker on one. I hear some of the buses had tube framing that rusts pretty bad and some buses with air ride are a pain when they quit working because you can't get under them to fix.
Any info is much appreciated!
Thanks,
Luke
They all rust, and most have neglectitis.
Determine your budget and you'll get more accurate answers.
If it's 6 figures. they're all good :)
I wish it was six figures, but I'm looking at 50-60 range. There's an '83 Silver Eagle in East Texas that has supposedly been redone with a new 60 series and transmission with 35k miles. Been stretched 5' and raised 10". Said it's been reskinned and painted. Inside has been redone, and looks nice in the pics. He wants 69k for it, but I've been told that's way too much. I don't know exact, but I do know a new engine and transmission out of the crate is pretty high!
Quote from: Lukis on October 01, 2018, 05:58:32 PM
I wish it was six figures, but I'm looking at 50-60 range. There's an '83 Silver Eagle in East Texas that has supposedly been redone with a new 60 series and transmission with 35k miles. Been stretched 5' and raised 10". Said it's been reskinned and painted. Inside has been redone, and looks nice in the pics. He wants 69k for it, but I've been told that's way too much. I don't know exact, but I do know a new engine and transmission out of the crate is pretty high!
When I bought my Eagle it was 25 years old,this example is 35 years old.
1978 vs. 1983
I paid less. I've driven it (average 10,000 miles annually)
it had a recent rebuilt 8v71 Allison 740 etc.
It gets me where I want to go still.
The seller held 1/3 of my payment in escrow pending any breakdown.
I didn't.
So, if the $$'s per day per mile of anticipated ownership pencil out. (A number you can live with)
You're good.
If not, you're disappointed :)
You'll never profit.
Likely you wont break even either :)
Check it out thoroughly by having someone who knows Eagles actually running it. Make an offer if it checks out that you can afford. Move quickly, because if it is a good one, it will not sit there forever waiting for you. The condition is everything, not the age. The generator, A/C, electrical setup, layout, and the workmanship have to be what satisfies your needs. The appearance of the coach should be satisfying to you. Look at all brands available; there are important differences.
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm going to meet the guy this week and hope to take a buddy of mine that has had one for awhile. I'll let you know how it goes.
Luke
A lot of Prevost can be had with the 92 series for the money you are talking about,when you cross the line and go to the 4 strokes diesels like a series 60 with the electronic WT Allison the price jumps considerably.It may be worth $65 k my friend Mark (Boomer) sold his Eagle and 65k would have made the down payment and his was about the same year modle. You never know till you lay your hands and eyes on it.Pay no attention to people telling you what a bus is worth you make that decision,like Walter said a nice clean Eagle with little or no rust are bringing big money I know of 2 that have sold in the last few months
Yea, I just need to check it out in person. The guy said a lot of money was spent redoing everything on it. No telling what the stretch, raise, re-skin and paint cost. Engine and transmission have 35k miles. Should be pretty clean. I'll take some pictures of it.
Check out the Checklist for buying a Used Coach by Gene Lewis on our Documents page. This will give you a good idea of what to look for. https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/documents/
Gary
Thanks Gary, I'll check it out.
Luke,
I am in Groveton Tx in my eagle doing a building job. Am I close? I may be able to look with you.
David
Hey David, your about an hour and a half away. The bus is in Jacksonville. I'm supposed to meet him at 10am in the morning.
Check out this link
http://eagles-international.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4343
Thanks, I just looked at the bus. From what I remember the threads sticking out we're about 4-6". Didn't know what I was looking at until now though, but I figured it was an adjustment. I didn't drive it because I'm still waiting on my buddy to come with me to check it out, but I did notice that the steering wheel wasnt tight. It had a little play in it. I noticed cracks and places that needed to be welded back up at the left rear of the bus though. It was the tube framing that supported some kind of gear box that had pulleys and belts on it. It prevented the door from opening and closing easily. Also noticed a 6-7" in crack on the left side of the bus starting at the corner of a window. Supposedly this bus was raised 10" and stretched 5' in 2010 and totally reskinned and painted, but I would think it wouldn't have any cracks in it being that new. Engine and transmission looked clean. Going to go back and drive it and look at the things you mentioned.
Pass on pictures to us of every detail that raises a question, you will then have the benefit of many eyes of people who have worked on Eagles and know these areas in detail. Did you take any pictures today?
I didn't take any pictures, but I plan to when I go back. I was going to take some of the cracked skin, but I needed a ladder to get a good shot of it. That's another thing I'm taking with me to get a good look at the roof when I go.
Are there any specific areas I should look other than the items on the link 6805eagleguy mentioned on this thread?
Here is the link to the ad. I asked about the records for when all the work was done and unfortunately he does not have any. He didn't have anything for the new engine and transmission installation either. https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/d/silver-eagle-motor-coach-must/6686561482.html
Quote from: Lukis on October 03, 2018, 04:43:10 PM
Here is the link to the ad. I asked about the records for when all the work was done and unfortunately he does not have any. He didn't have anything for the new engine and transmission installation either. https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/d/silver-eagle-motor-coach-must/6686561482.html
No records ? Many say, more don't...have documentation.
How about the shops that did the work they'd have records.
In 1984 they had rectangle head lamps > oops < I am mistaken :)
What's the serial number ?
Quote from: Lukis on October 02, 2018, 06:45:24 PM
Hey David, your about an hour and a half away. The bus is in Jacksonville. I'm supposed to meet him at 10am in the morning.
I cannot get loose until next Wednesday. You could come and look at my coach if you would like. I can show things to look at. I am at Pineywoods Camp till Friday then gone until Wednesday.
What did he use for the siding on the smooth part looks like fiberglass with the waves,you can tell they used the original model 10 rear cap and did a filler underneath,the crack is probably where the caps joins to bus.Check a wheel well and you can tell how it was widen it is a nice looking bus
Hey Guys,
I'll have to ask him which shop did the work. He did mention that he bought it 5 yrs ago from a guy in Kentucky. I didn't get the serial number, but I did get the Vin# 1EUAN6A10EB031363.
David, I may just do that. I'll let you know if can make it by Friday.
Luvrbus, it does look like fiberglass. Yea, it's nice, really nice on the inside, everything seems pretty solid inside. I'll look at the wheel wells and see.
Hello, start the inspection with the suspension and see if there is adjustment remaining. Many Eagle owners have added air bags to deal with tired suspension.
Bandsaw.
Quote from: bandsaw on October 03, 2018, 08:53:00 PM
Hello, start the inspection with the suspension and see if there is adjustment remaining. Many Eagle owners have added air bags to deal with tired suspension.
Bandsaw.
I think he said there was 4 inches of thread exposed.
I think.
Quote from: Lukis on October 03, 2018, 07:54:43 PM
Hey Guys,
I'll have to ask him which shop did the work.
Vin# 1EUAN6A10EB031363.
i meant VIN #.
someone will be along with the history I am sure. Many here have that data.
The lack of documentation is suspicious, and I really don't think the quality of the interior furnishings are at a high level, neat, but not high quality. Strange that they did not include pictures of the engine. Contrary to what was stated, money was spared in the rebuilding. The custom oak cabinets seem to have a lot of wild grain oak plywood mixed in. Be prepared to offer a low price. A 8,000 watt generator is oddly on the small side. The amount of A/C power going down the road might be why the owner is selling it after having been through this past summer. I just see two A/C's, unless there is original coach air, you will sweat going down the road. I wonder how well it was insulated. Probe the cracks to see how thick the material is, it is probably fiberglass. It might indicate poor construction integrity of the frame extensions resulting in flexing. Check the amount of thread extension beyond the last adjustment nut on every rear and front adjustment linkage. The inside height of the wheel arch trim should be 47-48", this one looks a little low. The headlights on my 1984 Model 10 are round just like this one. That chain restraint on the front door looks crude. Did I mention that you should be prepared to offer a lower amount, because some additional money (lots of) will be needed to be able to use this coach in hot weather? ;)
Double eagle, I did notice that it only has two roof air conditioners. And, it does not have bus air; I did ask him that. He said they run the generator going down the road to run the air. Most buses I've seen have at least 3, some have 6!. When he told me, "you have to keep the bedroom door open" so it's air can help cool the bus I was suspicious. Here in east Texas it can be over a 100 degrees with 95% humidity for months at a time. That is a must for me; if it's hot in the bus in the summer I don't want it. That may be a deal breaker for me unless I can get it cheap enough.
I did plan on making a considerably low offer, if I decide to make one.
I think your right about the quality of the inside as well. They designed it more on the "neat" side than quality. The cabinet doors seemed a little light when I opened them. I'm also not a fan of the carpet they used on the bunks and some of the walls.
Two roof airs will not cut it going down the road. Twenty years ago I crossed Texas in August with three going full blast in my Model 05 with a 12.5 Kw generator. I then realized why the entertainer coaches usually have five roof tops. A 18,000 to 21,000 watt generator will be needed to run them. The black paint on the front will not help the cooling load. Did the owner indicate how the coach was insulated? (Spray foam would help a bit, but fiberglass would be minimal).
Double eagle, he didn't indicate, but he also didn't know a lot about the bus. Between you guys and my couple weeks of research I honestly think I know more about it than he does.
By the way, I have really enjoyed and appreciate everyone's help. This is one of the best forums I've been on; everyone is very professional and open minded. That's hard to to find now days.
Back to the bus; I'm planning another day to go back look at it with a guy that knows them pretty well.
I can tell you now though, that I'm not as excited about it as I was when I first saw the ad. The air condition may just be a deal breaker for me.
Luke
I just noticed that the seller pulled the ad when I was trying to show my wife a "hot" coach. She remembers the trip across Texas, and is not willing to do it with sub-par cooling again. The fact that the owner does not know the details of the bus should be a red flag. He simply may be trying to turn a profit from something he bought cheap (for whatever unknown reason). Someone who has done the work himself, or owned the coach for a long time will know every last detail and be proud to recount them.
I noticed that too today. He reposted it though. https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/d/silver-eagle-motor-coach-must/6714649230.html
When I was talking to him he acted like he didn't know much about it. He didn't seem enthusiastic about them like I am. Maybe because I haven't owned one yet? Haha
Hes a country singer and now travels in a van and pulls a trailer. I bet because it's way too hot to drive in the summer!
I got the repost. It really looks like the rear torsilastic is setting mighty low in picture 1. All that money in rebuilding, yet no one could adjust the ride height? It is looking bleak at this point, but check it out further, it will be good practice. 8)
Yea, I agree. Well even if don't pull the trigger on this one, I have learned a lot about these buses and enjoy it.
I'll check it out some more when I go and take some pictures this time.
Thanks DoubleEagle
I don't know much specifically about Eagles, but there are way to many major unknowns about this bus for my liking. The seller tells about some really major surgery which was done, but there is apparently no information regarding who did it or the records of their work. Stretching a bus, in my eyes, is even more severe than raising a roof. Too many moving parts to not have kept records.
Then there are the little things. It's listed to have been done by a professional, but the backsplash in the kitchen is nothing but plastic bathroom wall covering. The front door has an exposed chain keeping it from opening too far, and the walls are covered with the same carpet that teenagers use to cover their subwoofers. The 'cover' on the lower dash is a snapped on piece of vinyl. Engine is brand new - where are the photos? Does the seller know how to open the engine bay?
It would be a great learning experience if this is near you, but please take a very clear look at everything with eyes wide open. Bring along a mirror on a stick to look underneath and behind.
Raising the roof, widening and extending a Eagle is not that hard he just needs to check to see how it was done a lot of unknowns from a owner that is in the dark,the down side to lengthening a Eagle is it takes 40 acres to turn one around.About 10 years ago we shorten one back to 40 ft and left it 102 wide,if he can get a good buy and is a handy man it may not be to bad ,the work done I doubt he would have much rust to deal with, 60k is a little high asking price
I believe this might be a video of the Eagle you are looking at: https://youtu.be/5ZatFI1aRpA
Mmanning,
That's it, thanks for sharing.
He did mention he had a broker trying to sell it for him as well.
That's the same outfit that was trying to sell the Flxible I looked at. Very strange setup where you couldn't negotiate directly with the owner. I find it very odd that not one of the photos or any of the video covers any of the mechanical systems, almost as if the people selling don't understand the importance of any of things beneath the surface.
Lack of meat and potatoes information?
Read between the lines...
They don't want a smart buyer...
Run fast, run far...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
If he gets the bus for the right price that is not a bad bus some one did a lot of work,you are not working on a GM,Prevost or MCI, Eagle are easy, the generator is small so is the AC and that is no biggie people want the 8k and the larger Kw generators are easy to find that would probably be a wash.Being a entertainer set up is not my cup of tea though,he may want the setup. A close inspection he may want it or not it's his call not ours
Quote from: richard5933 on October 06, 2018, 05:16:54 AM
That's the same outfit that was trying to sell the Flxible I looked at. Very strange setup where you couldn't negotiate directly with the owner. I find it very odd that not one of the photos or any of the video covers any of the mechanical systems, almost as if the people selling don't understand the importance of any of things beneath the surface.
That is also the same outfit that has a feedback rating of -1 on eBay. ???
You need to guide him Walter when he goes to look at today,brokers are just in it for the cash and have no idea what they are selling
Quote from: richard5933 on October 06, 2018, 05:16:54 AM
almost as if the people selling don't understand the importance of any of things beneath the surface.
they are hoping the buyers don't either.
I haven't dealt with the broker. The owner though, doesn't know, or acts like he doesn't know much about it.
I do like the setup, the bunk however would be converted to shelving for products we sell at shows. One of the most concerning things, is the air conditioning and generator. From what I've gathered that would definitely have to be upgraded to 3 possibly 4.
When I go back I want to run everything and see how cool it gets. I'm sure you all are right though, especially in the summer in Texas.
Quote from: luvrbus on October 06, 2018, 09:03:41 AM
You need to guide him Walter when he goes to look at today,brokers are just in it for the cash and have no idea what they are selling
He seems to be fairly aware of the potential problems so far, but there are so many things hidden under the skin and interior panels that can affect the value. If the fiberglass panels on the outside are cracking because of the frame twisting due to weak welds or improper construction, it would really put a dent in the value. There is also the problem of needing a forty acre field to turn around. ;)
Quote from: Lukis on October 06, 2018, 09:14:43 AM
From what I've gathered that would definitely have to be upgraded to 3 possibly 4.
and the generator...8KW is is inadequate currently, imo.
Quote from: Lukis on October 06, 2018, 09:14:43 AM
I haven't dealt with the broker. The owner though, doesn't know, or acts like he doesn't know much about it.
I do like the setup, the bunk however would be converted to shelving for products we sell at shows. One of the most concerning things, is the air conditioning and generator. From what I've gathered that would definitely have to be upgraded to 3 possibly 4.
When I go back I want to run everything and see how cool it gets. I'm sure you all are right though, especially in the summer in Texas.
One A/C might cool it just fine sitting still without the engine having been run. The only way to see how it goes cooling wise is to run it out on the highway on a sunny day with both A/C's on, and then see how many paper towels you need to wipe your brow with (I recommend Bounty, the quicker picker-upper). A lot of heat comes in through the windows, past gaps in the front area under the dash, and transfer through the floor from all the hot metal just below. If, and only if, the coach was well insulated and sealed, it might be passable in moderate temperatures. I would make every attempt to peak under any panel, light fixture, cabinet rear, dash panel (starting with that weird black snap-on thing in the center of the dash bottom), and try to determine just what exactly was used for insulation. I would smack every inside and outside panel with the palm of your hand as hard as you dare to see what shakes out, or whether the sound was consistent. You or the owner might not have the tools to take off the front bumper blade (it should have square head bolts, 13/16's, same size as the head of the rear axle wheel studs), but it would be desirable to take it off and look under the dash, you might discover some air leaks you can put your fist through. Don't forget to crawl underneath the bus wherever you can.
Even with the OTR a/c on and running well, when the sun shines through the front windows in the afternoon it can be warm in the driver's seat. That's why they added the driver's fan, I'm sure.
Seems like it would be important to not only see that the units can cool the interior, but how much of the air can be directed towards the cockpit area. Those two roof top units would have to work pretty hard to try and match the performance of an OTR system, which is what they'll be trying to do driving down the highway.
If the a/c is not up to the task, would it be possible to add an engine-driven compressor and dash a/c unit to the bus? Might be less expensive than trying to upgrade the generator and adding more rooftop units.
One good thing is he can verify how many miles and how much fuel the engine has used and also what year the engine is,that is a good point on a electronic engine they don't lie.That was probably a 30 to $40,000.00 upgrade no one is going to spend that amount of dollars on a bus that is bad shape it doesn't happen
I'm not sure what you need, but hopefully this will help. If you need more, ask.
INSPECTING AN EAGLE
Walk up to the Bird and open the lower access door under the drivers window. If it is all rusted out close it and thank the owner for his time.This is a good indicator of things to come.
If it looks ok, open the upper access door above it. This is the forward electrical compartment. Have a good look at the wiring for corrosion and hopefully the Eagle wire numbers are still on the wiring which will make identifying the circuits easier. If you are real lucky the inside of the door will have a readable wiring diagram there.
Sight down both sides of the bus skin. Is it buckled or wavy?
Remove the front bumper and crawl up in the spare tire compartment. Look at the steering box and look for previous damage or rust.
Crawl under the bus and look at the metal under the drivers compartment.
Look at the front torsilastics.(BIG MONEY) Is the rubber hanging out of the ends of the tubes? How much thread (adjustment) is left on the adjusting rods? check the condition of the brake lines.
Look very carefully at the inside wheelwell, especially agaist the outer side above the tire for rust.
Open all of the bay doors. what is the condition of the bays? Are the tunnel covers there? Take them off and look at the things inside.
Look under the baggage bays. Are the longitudinal steel tubes in good shape? Is the tube under the door rusted out?
Is the fuel filler tube in good shape? Does it seal when closed?
Is the bogie out of alinement?
Check the rear torsilastics and wheel wells for the same things as the front.
Open the air compressor door. Is the bus air still there? If so I recommend you get it removed if you buy the coach.
Open the engine door and both corner doors. Hopefully the rear electrical compartment will still have the dust cover. It may also have a readable wiring diagram. Check the corner doors for operation and the wiring for condition. Look at everthing you can see. Does the engine or miter box leak?
Crawl under the bus and check the engine and transmission for leaks. Also check the cooler hoses from the engine and transmission for condition.
Open the radiator door. Does the radiator have corrosion? Damage?
Work your way up the left side checking the same things you checked on the right.
If the bus has an automatic, pull the dipstick. The fluid should be the color of transmission fluid and not have a burnt smell.
Go inside the bus and remove the access panel in the floor above the top step. Look at the stuff inside and evaluate.
Go to the inside rear of the bus and remove the engine access panels (both) and the panel just forward of them. Look at the blower and valve covers and everything else for leaks. Look at the fan hub and idler. Look at the power steering pump and air compressor and the rest of the hoses there.
Now start the bus, does it smoke? what color? does it clear up right away? Remove the oil filler tube cover. Hold your hand over the opening. Is there pressure (blowby)?
This is in no way a complete inspection but if you know the basics. tires, brakes, leaking shocks, steering wheel play, etc it may help
Excellent inspection recommendation.
Yes, I saw this inspection. Someone on here sent it to me last week. Yes, I'll definitely use this when I look at it again. I wish I could get a hold of scanner to check the engine out. I may have a friend that has one, just have to see what his will do. I'm still wanting to track the bus shop that did the work. I bet they remember it well if they did they did hat much work.
It looks like a Hercules entertainer conversion to me I think they were based out of Kentucky but are long gone and have been for several years
Quote from: Lukis on October 07, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
...I bet they remember it well if they did they did hat much work.
Not just remember it, most shops have computerized records. Not sure if they will claim some type of privacy issue, but if the shop is computerized you would be able to see every last detail. If you can find the shop. Look for a shop tag or other ID piece on the engine or transmission - it might give you a clue of who did the work.
I doubt he finds any computerized records other than what is stored in the ECM Hercules would rebuild Prevost,MCI and Eagles from the 70's and re title one as a 1996 model and so on,then the series 60 has been around for 30 years