So I'm prepping to have our turbo replaced on our coach in a few weeks. I know in my past conversations with cliff and some basic research here on the forum, that getting a reman is my best option. Can someone point me in the right direction? Who is the go to company right now for a rebuilt unit that is cost effective? And does anyone recommend I try to replace the turbo myself on my 1992 MCI 102C3 8v92 or just have a shop do this. You guys that know me know I'm not afraid to get intimate with my coach, but I also have two little ones now, 3 year old and 8 month old so my desire to spend inordinate amounts of time on the business end of my bus is not what it used to be. Would love some help going in the right direction here.
Is there a reason for replacing the turbo? I bought a turbo on ebay new for about the same price it cost to rebuild my old one. It isn't a bad job to change on the 102C3, there is lots of room on the turbo side. It is very heavy for someone my age.
Jack
Scott,it's a about 2 hour job just start spraying the nuts and bolts on the exhaust piping now.I use Turbo Resource in Lake Havasu (928)505-4610 www.turboresource.com,the owner Tom is retired Detroit Diesel call him he can help you and will answer your questions if the turbo is bad or not
Thanks Jack and Cliff. Ok, I'll do it myself. I'll call Tom today and chat with him. Jack, I have low boost around 9-12 psi under full load absolute max boost. I blow copious amounts of black smoke. I have tons of soot coming out between the hot and cold sides of the turbo where they are sandwhiched together. This soot has now covered everything in the engine compartment and is also making its way into the living area of the coach in minute amounts. I've degreased and pressure washed the engine to determine if soot was coming from any of the exhaust manifolds and it is not. Only source is the union between the two sides of the turbo. I've replaced the vband clamp and that didn't make any difference.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on September 25, 2018, 09:51:33 AM
Thanks Jack and Cliff. Ok, I'll do it myself. I'll call Tom today and chat with him. Jack, I have low boost around 9-12 psi under full load absolute max boost. I blow copious amounts of black smoke. I have tons of soot coming out between the hot and cold sides of the turbo where they are sandwhiched together. This soot has now covered everything in the engine compartment and is also making its way into the living area of the coach in minute amounts. I've degreased and pressure washed the engine to determine if soot was coming from any of the exhaust manifolds and it is not. Only source is the union between the two sides of the turbo. I've replaced the vband clamp and that didn't make any difference.
I remember you complaining about this problem before. I have a bit of experience rebuilding turbos and from what I know you have built up a lot of carbon between the center section and exhaust sides of the turbo so clamping the heck out of it will not solve you problem. While a rebuilt turbo would solve your immediate problem, it is not that much work to take the exhaust snail off the turbo off and chip, grind and clean up the surface and of course the surface of the center side also so they mate up smoothly and evenly, and stop the exhaust leak. That is what I would do, and if I could take the exhaust side off without removing the whole turbo I would that too. If your turbo is not leaking oil then it is probably still good. I think your problem started because at some point somebody left the clamp loose and exhaust started leaking though the mating surfaces and the carbon has built up.
--Geoff
Out of curiosity, what should the turbo boost pressure be at WOT (once built up)? It's been a while since I even attempted it, (I don't like shooting fuel out my exhaust) but I recall never seeing much more than 14-18 lbs boost on my lil'6v92
A 6v92TA will boost to 21 to 25 lbs under full rpm with a load
Do you know which turbo you need, I have a new one that I'm not using at the moment.
Jack
That's right Clifford, when going up a hill hell bent for election, I see 25ish psi boost out of my turbo.
JC
Geoff, you're probably right. I might try that route first and see how far I get. Those two seem to be somewhat seized together but obviously there's a gap there since it's leaking air. I do not have a drop of oil leaking anywhere around the turbo and there isn't any play in the shaft and the fins look fine. So it's likely ok and I just need to do what you said but I'm not sure I could get those two halves to be perfectly smooth and seal perfectly again. I'll give it a whirl though.
Jack I know cliff had told me on Facebook which turbo I needed but I completely forgot and never wrote it down. Cliff, if you can remind me what the numbers were I'd be grateful.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on September 25, 2018, 07:39:24 PM
Geoff, you're probably right. I might try that route first and see how far I get. Those two seem to be somewhat seized together but obviously there's a gap there since it's leaking air. I do not have a drop of oil leaking anywhere around the turbo and there isn't any play in the shaft and the fins look fine. So it's likely ok and I just need to do what you said but I'm not sure I could get those two halves to be perfectly smooth and seal perfectly again. I'll give it a whirl though.
Jack I know cliff had told me on Facebook which turbo I needed but I completely forgot and never wrote it down. Cliff, if you can remind me what the numbers were I'd be grateful.
Razor knife
scraper, a stiff one you can sharpen on a fine stone or grinder wheel
emery cloth
make believe you are an archaeologist :)
Somewhere I'm pretty sure I mentioned I'm a dad of a 3 year old and 8 month old and a silly busy tour schedule. I'm crisscrossing the country right now giving about 150 events a year. There's a point where it is a better use of my time to buy a rebuild vs play archaeologist and pop it in there and call it a day. Just sayin.
The 2 mating flanges warp over time and most of the time they need to be machined back to the original spec,you get lucky on occasions that they will clean up and seat the MCI's are bad because it uses the heavy adapter from the turbo to outlet exhaust pipe held in place with 3 bolts , me I go the exchange route
You start messing with removing intake or exhaust side, just be extremely careful not to nick or damage impeller fins. They spin in the thousands of rpm's and any little damage or imbalance can destroy unit from fins disintegrating in short order.
Don't let the naysayers get you down. A coarse file, a smooth file, and a wire wheel on a drill will clean up the surfaces in less than 30 minutes. They don't warp. The only thing you miss is a sand blaster to make it look pretty. Knock the exhaust snail off and take a look before you order a rebuilt, you have nothing to lose.
Goeff is right. It is cast iron so it would be only build up. When reattaching pipe, apply neverseize to surface area where v groove pulls against. It will assist clamp to slide and adjust while tightening. If you remove to clean, check surface with straight edge or flat plate after you are done.
They warp every turbo shop has a lathe to resurface the mating surfaces on turbos why would a shop spend 20k if you do it with a file ? Whats being cast have to do with it manifolds ,heads even blocks warp and they are not made of plastic.Scott needs a turbo his is to small for the increase in hp and fuel and he blowing smoke with low boost.I really don't care one way or the other but I know his TV8513 is not going to cut it on his engine,I suggest he talk to Tom
That is what the straight edge is for. To check for any warpage. Now if he has turbo size issues, that is another thing.
A TV8513 is the correct turbo for a 500 or less HP 8V92TA. A/R 1.23. Scott was loosing boost from the exhaust leak.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on September 26, 2018, 05:38:32 AM
Somewhere I'm pretty sure I mentioned I'm a dad of a 3 year old and 8 month old and a silly busy tour schedule. I'm crisscrossing the country right now giving about 150 events a year. There's a point where it is a better use of my time to buy a rebuild vs play archaeologist and pop it in there and call it a day. Just sayin.
I was thinking Geoff had swayed you towards the recon job :)
There's a point where it is a better use of my time to buy a rebuild ...
Agreed.
Putting a maybe turbo back on is a gamble less than 50-50
:)
1.23 A/R is for a 400 hp DDEC the 1.39 A/R is good for up to 475 hp on a DDEC and Scott is above 500 hp with his DDEC engine.I recall he is using 4775 injectors too
Quote from: luvrbus on September 26, 2018, 03:00:19 PM
1.23 A/R is for a 400 hp DDEC the 1.39 A/R is good for up to 475 hp on a DDEC and Scott is above 500 hp with his DDEC engine.I recall he is using 4775 injectors too
Damn, a pissing contest. The lower the A/R on the pump end, the more boost. Scott would want an A/R as low as he can find and 1.23 is not bad. I have .99 A/R on my 6V92TA with 9G90 injectors and it doesn't smoke at all.
P.S. I don't like getting into this conversation any further. I like Cliff and he is a great person and resource.
Geoff
Ok. Got the turbo out. Took me an hour to remove it. Messed up the oil feed metal line during the process so will have to replace that. Turbo A/R is indeed 1.23
Still trying to find the number to determine which turbo it is. Tom did confirm that he's put the TV8513 into an airport fire truck (spec) that was set for 575 hp so he assured me it was fine for my 500 hp use. The exhaust turbines appeared to be a little nicked up, so he's going to do a full rebuild on it for me.
"A little nicked up". LOL. Pretty bad. It will be so much better after a good rebuild. I am glad you took it apart.
JC
Is that a broken lip on the exhaust center housing? And the exhaust fin damage looks like it is from a wobbeling turbine and worn bearings. That is going to be an expensive rebuild. There is a rebuilt TV8513 on eBay for $1200. Might be cheaper.
The scary part of this is that there is zero play in the shaft. Spins freely. So what damaged the hot side turbine fins???? I'm hoping this was from a previous engine blowup puking valve pieces or something and post rebuild they didn't bother to replace the turbo...fingers crossed. My engine has and does run just fine so I'm hoping that damage isn't from this engine...yikes.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on September 27, 2018, 02:48:49 PM
The scary part of this is that there is zero play in the shaft. Spins freely. So what damaged the hot side turbine fins???? I'm hoping this was from a previous engine blowup puking valve pieces or something and post rebuild they didn't bother to replace the turbo...fingers crossed. My engine has and does run just fine so I'm hoping that damage isn't from this engine...yikes.
slivers of carbon can do this.
Man I hope you're right don. Here's a closeup of the ugly:
You are right, Scott. Some metal went through your turbo. And it is out of balance and the exhaust turbine wheel is rubbing on the housing. Look at the one on eBay, they don't demand a core. Rebuilding yours is going to be costly.
Ugh, it's already on its way to Tom in Arizona. I'll see what he quotes me. It is indeed a TV8513 btw.
It will probably be around $800.00 bucks if he needs a better core I have 8 in the shop with A/R's ranging from .71 to .144 for the compressor side,you didn't by chance check the A/R on the turbine side ? .Tom is a good guy, if the center is good on your turbo it won't be that expensive lol wait till you buy the supply line from DD
That oil supply line, can I make one out of copper? The flare nut wouldn't spin so it ended up just twisting the line. It was the only complication in an otherwise really easy removal. Or can I just continue the stainless braided line right to the turbo?
Nevermind, I just ordered the entire replacement line for $45 from Amazon. It's going to be a pain to replace because of how it winds around in there but oh well. Will be nice to have a fresh turbo in there. I'm guessing my boost will be wonderful and my grin with my 500 hp setting will be very wide indeed. We've never been able to get the full benefit of the 500hp tune because of the tired turbo so I'm looking forward to seeing how she performs with this refresh.
45 bucks heck of a deal for that line,it is not hard to change just don't break the 90 fitting at the bottom on the block, don't ask how I know they break
I'll be careful. Everything in here is tight as all get out. So removing stuff has to be treated with firm care. Tom should be getting my turbo sometime Wednesday and hopefully can give me the skinny on how much the rebuild will cost me. Then hopefully he can ship it back to me soon and I can get it back in the Bus. I have an 18 day window here before I have to leave to head to California. Always something...always runnin.
Tom is rebuilding my turbo. It was really bad. He said he can't believe I was building any boost at all frankly. The great news is that the damage to the hit turbine was caused by the compression ring between the hot and cold side disentegrating and going through it. So it wasn't engine parts but turbo parts. Will cost
Me a hair over $900. Not too shabby.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on October 07, 2018, 11:04:08 AM
Tom is rebuilding my turbo. It was really bad. He said he can't believe I was building any boost at all frankly. The great news is that the damage to the hit turbine was caused by the compression ring between the hot and cold side disentegrating and going through it. So it wasn't engine parts but turbo parts. Will cost
Me a hair over $900. Not too shabby.
Tom is a good guy,when you get the turbo back it will be as good as new and also look new
Thanks cliff for the info on him. He has been absolutely awesome to work with
I used a turbo shop in the SF Bay Area for many years to balance damaged turbine wheels then I would rebuild the turbos. Turbos are actually quite simple, you just have to know how to work on them.
Then the guy who used to balance the wheels retired, and was replaced by a rookie who f"!!ded up the first job I sent him. I haven't rebuilt a turbo for many years now. I still have some parts.
Tom sure has some expensive equipment to rebuild turbos with and his shop looks like a hospital room.I wonder what ever to Zeroclearance (Mark) that owned a Prevost and posted here he owned a turbo re manufacturing shop in Washington he did some awesome work too and he would get out of box building turbos,I saw one he was building for a marine Cat engine that sucker was over 2 ft around
Turbo is back. Hopefully getting a needed fitting tomorrow and slapping it back on the bus.
I think you will be very happy.
Looks nice.