I notice here many roads are getting crosswise cracking asphalt after a few years of applying. You feel it at every joint, maybe 50 feet apart. Used to be this commonly happened front paving over former concrete roads. But these roads were never concrete. I wonder if during the last crude oil price spike, that they started to reduce the amount of tar to stone mix used. It would make road surface more durable, but less able to deal with contraction. Just wondering.
Same here in cheese country. Our county highway was repaved with new asphalt only ten years ago, and now it's nothing but a series of wide cracks across the road bed every 10-20 yards. Can't blame the concrete underneath, as there is none. They did a grind-in-place repave, where they grind the old asphalt in place and then run compactors over it to create a new base level. My guess is that the water table is still too high and/or the ditches are too shallow and the snow melt and rain end up under the road bed, which in turn causes cracking in the winter freezes. Can't blame road salt really, because since the downturn in 2008 they've cut back drastically on the amount of salt used.
Hi All, I travel to Flagstaff frequently from Las Vegas, by US93 (soon to be I -11 ) and I-40 and has heavy ttraffic. The old US93 from Boulder Dam to Kingman AZ is some of the oldest pavement around and it was done in short sections, 10 to 15 foot perpendicular sections. Kinda like how concrete is poured. And all of those sections are potato chipping, like old roof shingles, all at the same time, this is besides the heavy traffic corrosion. I noticed they redid the worst section in the more countiuous flow style, for the start of I- 11 on the AZ side of the Dam. Hopefully that will not break down in short sections, lvmci...
I read an article a while back that they're constantly experimenting with different asphalt mixtures trying to come up with something durable and cheap. We have a road near us that caused the Mini we used to tow to literally fall apart because the wheels were so small they fell into the expansion cracks. Not good!
Various levels of government collect billions $ in fuel taxes. There is no excuse for bad roads.
JV
They started years back using more bunker C than asphalt in roads it cut out 1 more step in refining and plus the EPA thought bunker C was better for the environment when it came to run off water. They needed a place to go with the bunker C since the railroads and shipping stop using it so now your roads get it
My last year of trucking was 2,000. That year Texas was repaving a section of I-10 east of El Paso. The method?-First lay down a thick layer of Asphalt, then over that fully reinforced continuous pour concrete. I recently drove that section and was impressed that 18 years later the concrete was still very smooth. Obviously Texas has down pat the method by which to totally repave a highway and for a projected 50 year life. Good Luck, TomC
In Pa. at Water Street, they poured concrete, and then paved on top of it . Has held up well. A section out near Allentown was paved with 14 inches of concrete with diangle joints.
Quote from: TomC on September 09, 2018, 09:25:21 PM
Obviously Texas has down pat the method by which to totally repave a highway and for a projected 50 year life.
Obviously, the subsurface there is stable.
Has as much to do with it than the mixture.
Funding has a lot to do with it too, but I won't go there.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 10, 2018, 05:32:35 AM
In Pa. at Water Street, they poured concrete, and then paved on top of it . Has held up well. A section out near Allentown was paved with 14 inches of concrete with diangle joints.
They've tried something similar around here, only with less-than-stellar results. When the concrete surface gets beyond repair, they grind it down about an inch till they hit solid material. Then they lay asphalt over the old concrete. All is good until the next winter when the concrete underneath begins to move and cracks the asphalt. Then water gets in from the melting snow, refreezes, and bye-bye asphalt.
It truly is all about the base. And the salt. And the sub-zero temps that will heave and crack an otherwise great stretch of asphalt.
It's about about the plasticity of soil,you need to treat a high plasticity soil with lime or fly ash to lower the PI Texas is good about spending the money to treat a sub base.Same with a building I have had to under cut slabs for WalMart to some times 4 ft below finished floor grade then haul in select material with a low plasticity (PI) or mix the existing removed dirt treat it with lime and bring it back to sub level in 8 inches lifts very costly but the buildings never heaved or the floor cracked.You can read about plasticity if it's to high the water will not pass through it and when it freezes there goes your payment or building
I just drive an eagle so I don't feel the expansion joints! ;D ;D ;D
No offense to the non-eagle guys! ;)
I call b.s. on that.
He said that on PORPOISE..... :)
We porpoise over the cracks on purpose. ;)
I have owned 3 Eagles and never knew about porpoising till I read about it on the internet I never owned a Eagle that would porpoise Walter I sent you PM
Quote from: luvrbus on September 15, 2018, 07:19:30 AM
I have owned 3 Eagles and never knew about porpoising till I read about it on the internet I never owned a Eagle that would porpoise Walter I sent you PM
Run your Eagle out East after the frost heave season and you might be in for a thrill. I once got into a laughing fit going over a roller coaster road in my Model 05 with a Bostrom air seat that was adjusted too soft. The Eagle was porpoising and I was bouncing up and down raming against the seat belt. I thought it was funny at the time. Having shock absorbers of unequal age probably contributed to the effect. Cliff, I have not heard from Tim yet.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 15, 2018, 05:48:29 PM
Run your Eagle out East after the frost heave season and you might be in for a thrill. I once got into a laughing fit going over a roller coaster road in my Model 05 with a Bostrom air seat that was adjusted too soft. The Eagle was porpoising and I was bouncing up and down raming against the seat belt. I thought it was funny at the time. Having shock absorbers of unequal age probably contributed to the effect. Cliff, I have not heard from Tim yet.
It sold before he could transfer a deposit thanks anyways
It doesn't really matter the cover material. If the base is sub standard whatever you cover it with will not last. Sooo many roads around here are "lipstick on a pig" affairs that we have a poll for how long it will last before the first defect (in months!).
There is one interchange project here that a company form Alberta is doing where they utilized a lot of sand in layering the base. Heard different opinions but as always...time will tell.
And there are such interesting shades of lipstick
"Thin membrane surface" is my favorite.
Grandfather would be rolling his eyes at that one
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Local townships like to use " oil and chips". I guess it sounds better than tar and stone. We also don't have "guard rails". They are "guide rails".
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 16, 2018, 06:14:32 PM
Local townships like to use " oil and chips". I guess it sounds better than tar and stone. We also don't have "guard rails". They are "guide rails".
That is called Chipseal,depending on the rock size and base it can be tough and wear for a long time.Some highways in Texas through the Limestone hills that is all they use,great part about it dosen't require a lot of man power or expensive machinery to lay the stuff down
I suspect Chipseal is the latest marketing name for tar-bound macadam, which has been around for over a hundred years. The difference now is that in some areas they use fancier stone to make decorative driveways, but a lot of rural roads are still paved with macadam with limestone (in Ohio).
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 16, 2018, 08:51:27 PM
I suspect Chipseal is the latest marketing name for tar-bound macadam, which has been around for over a hundred years. The difference now is that in some areas they use fancier stone to make decorative driveways, but a lot of rural roads are still paved with macadam with limestone (in Ohio).
It always been called chip n seal here, in the hill country in Texas they call it Uvalde rock paving because of the stone size and the rock only comes from the hill country sorta like a granite rock lol if you called it macadam in Texas they would have no idea what you talking about and would think it was some kinda of nut that grows
Macadam roads were invented by Scottish engineer John McAdam in the early 1800's. They did not use tar until after 1900, it was chopped up rock (done by hand) in a relatively thin layer, compared to cobblestones. It was like a crushed stone driveway now. I remember this from grade school history lessons about the first building of the National Road from the East to the West (US 40 now). It was the act of chopping bigger rocks down to 2-3" by hand tools that stuck in my mind.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 17, 2018, 08:11:20 AM
Macadam roads were invented by Scottish engineer John McAdam in the early 1800's. They did not use tar until after 1900, it was chopped up rock (done by hand) in a relatively thin layer, compared to cobblestones. It was like a crushed stone driveway now. I remember this from grade school history lessons about the first building of the National Road from the East to the West (US 40 now). It was the act of chopping bigger rocks down to 2-3" by hand tools that stuck in my mind.
I tried to find a Macadam spreader for the surface seems like a chip spreader is what it is called,parts of I 10,20,35 and 40 in Texas have miles of that type paving.I know they can cover a lot miles in a day with that process,I never did that type paving I subbed mine out, the asphalt and concrete paving I was equipped to do
way up north us locals just call it tar and feather
dave
Quote from: luvrbus on September 17, 2018, 08:53:14 AM
I tried to find a Macadam spreader for the surface seems like a chip spreader is what it is called,parts of I 10,20,35 and 40 in Texas have miles of that type paving.I know they can cover a lot miles in a day with that process,I never did that type paving I subbed mine out, the asphalt and concrete paving I was equipped to do
The small towns that I lived in would spread hot tar with a boom equipped tanker, then dump trucks would open their tailgates a couple inches (chained down) and back over the tar while spreading the stone. Worked okay if the driver was good at backing up and paid attention to when the stone ran out. It would be spread thicker than necessary, but the traffic would dance the stone over to the edge to pile up and be collected later, assuming that homeowners did not already shovel it up and put it in their driveways (Frugal Yankees). ::)