Hello BCM community!
I am new to this bus forum, but my bus isn?t! I did not know that when I first contacted the forum to join. Since I was approved to join I found out that the previous owner of the bus I purchased had been a moderator on the forum! I purchased the PD-4103, from the iconic Dallas and Cat Farnworth. Since I joined I have had members share absolutely hilarious stories with me about Dallas and Cat, but of course, Dallas in particular.
When I met them, they were nothing but warm, fun people to be around and Dallas spent hours with my son, my boyfriend and I telling us all about the vehicle we were getting ready to take home. I had to make payments to them over a few months in order to afford it, but they knew it was going to a good home. Irregardless, when it was paid for and we were there to bring it to its new home Dallas kept offering for us to store it at their RV park if necessary.. it was very hard for him to let it go, and because of that, it broke my heart taking it.
My plan for the bus was always to update it inside and live in it. But because of financial constraints and because I decided that a career change was necessary for me, my plan has changed. I decided to make her into a tour bus! I really love the idea of sharing the Americana history that goes along with this bus fascination I have. When we took up the flooring, however, we discovered that the majority of the sub-floor needed to be replaced. It is now done but I am in need of some help in order to get my dream off the ground.
With the blessing of The forum owner Gary, and the help of Phil Lyons, I have gotten approval to post my GoFundMe campaign that I had set up. It has been out in the world, and not doing very well, people out there, don?t understand our fascination I guess, even more reason to make this come true.
I have added one of only 2 pictures I have of Dallas and the bus at the RV park they were living at. I apologize I don't have his face. I have also included a link to the website I created, with homage on the history page and a link to my GoFundMe campaign page. I will post before and after pictures along the way. And, of course, be there in whatever way I can for the members here.
https://numbskullsbus.wixsite.com/numbskullsbus/bus-history
https://www.gofundme.com/numbskulls-vintage-bus-austin
Any help would be so greatly appreciated! I will post before and after photos and keep y?all (I AM in Texas :) ) updated.
Warmest,
Kelli
???
We all spend big bucks restoring and maintain our beast, I for one do not appreciate you asking us to donate our money to your project and I don't care why you think we should give you money. Now if this is not appropriate then delete my response. My 2 cents worth nothing more. Thanks and I for one am glad you are doing what you are doing just not on other peoples money. Let the flames begain.
I sincerely apologize.. Upsetting anyone was the last thing I wanted to do! I had thought getting approval was sort of setting the temperature but I was devastatingly wrong it seems. When I joined I got so much wonderful feedback from people and when I posted my funding page.. Nothing. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone that was the last thing on my mind.. I will remove my post immediately.. Thanks for letting me know..
Kelli
You went through the channels not like you were doing a scam , leave it up it will disappear anyways in time,who knows a few here may get to feeling generous and contribute lol you never know,I don't think you can delete it now anyways without Phil doing it for you
I tried to delete it... I don't know how to🙁.. I am so sorry! I have asked Phil to help me. You guys seem like a great and close group of guys.. I don't want to jeopardize any comraderie that is way more important in my book..
Just in case you never noticed Kelli,the red carpet is not rolled out here for female posters, why I have no idea there has been few over the years with great ideas but don't hang around and deal with it lol fire away guys but its the truth
Your not the first and won't be the last.
There have been others on these boards who have asked for and got.
In fact there are plenty here who solicit for parts (and get them) with no bullshit attached or implied.
Kinda like ... I think the word would be hypocrite.
Parts are money too.
Here's a thought, don't want to give, don't.
Let the flames commence !
IDGAS.
You guys are awesome just as I suspected! As far as being female, I was one of the first female Electrical Designers in a decidedly male dominated Engineering world and hung in there for 30 years. I grew a thick skin a long time ago.. I actually love the comraderie and the bullshit! I can and will hang with the best 😊.. Here to fan the flames!
Stick around, lots of info here.
Busnuts are all broke, that's why we roll our own.
Wait patiently, you'll find your credentials/background able to contribute to the collective.
Gender is meaningless, smarts and willingness to contribute is what counts.
But luvrbus does have a point...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Greetings bus folk!
Just a bit of clarifications ; I've been bussin' around & working so haven't had a chance to post earlier & Gary has been offline as well. Kelli's post is an approved post.
Bus Conversion Magazine does not generally allow this type of post for our members to ask for money, but because Dallas and Cat were huge supporters of the Forum & very involved & helpful, we made an exception to our rules this time. No one has to make any kind of donation if they do not want to, but if you feel the urge to help out, then that is up to you.
Dallas was one of the original moderators and helped get this site off the ground, and Cat sometimes posted several times p/day w/ birthday wishes and helped build community. Many knew Dallas & Cat's bus, so it was fun for those of us who knew them to see it revived. And clicking on the link on the site posted by Kelli brings up some very interesting history. I believe Gary will be posting some of it to his Facebook page. More on that soon.
Sorry for the delay in getting this out -
Kind Regards, Phil
This is a very interesting piece of history. I clicked on the link provided and read all about the PD-4103 and also the Wiki information and found it an interesting read. You may want to do the same. I am all for anyone restoring and resurrecting these old buses and hopefully one day we can run an article about this bus in Bus Conversion Magazine.
Gary
Thank you Gary and Phil! We are working on her everyday in the blazing Texas sun! But amazingly the engine AND air conditioners fire right up! Thank you Dallas! You guys are the best and I feel blessed to have found y'all and to own this beautiful bus 😊
A couple of gems we just found! Dallas loved Cat😁.. So cool! And this never opened t-Stat.. Apparently GMC use to send parts cocooned in WAX!
No comprende
Quote from: Numbskulls on August 18, 2018, 11:54:39 AM
Thank you Gary and Phil! We are working on her everyday in the blazing Texas sun! But amazingly the engine AND air conditioners fire right up! Thank you Dallas! You guys are the best and I feel blessed to have found y'all and to own this beautiful bus 😊
Where abouts are you located in Texas. Yeah Ole Dallas was a good one. Talked to Him several times after I bought my coach many moons ago and had a few issues with things. He told me a couple times bring in over and lets look at it. Never did make it to the RV campground He and Cat was looking after. My coach is a 1991 and he told me he might not know much about it as it was new. I told him "New, it's 20 years old" He said something about me being a whipper snapper with a new bus. 58 year old whipper snapper. 8)
We are right now in the central Texas Hill country. Working on the bus outside of Dripping Springs. We'll stay around here.. Thank you for telling me that story.. He was a character huh? I hope there is bus rendezvous around here sometime soon!
Quote from: Geoff on August 18, 2018, 01:37:32 PM
No comprende
I agree. This is a very strange situation. She is asking for donations for a bus with a history, but there are few historical details on her site, and only a couple of actual pictures. Instead there are old-time illustrations of tour packages to be conducted with this bus. That would make it a commercial enterprise, and the bus would have to be DOT inspected, and the driver would need a CDL. I doubt that there is appropriate seating in this bus for paying passengers. Sorry Gary, this could be a scam. The name "Numbskulls" could apply to whomever swallows this story. ::)
Hi Walter, healthy skepticism is always prudent.. I agree. I assure you I am not a scam. This IS a commercial enterprise as I stated. We are finishing the interior conversion and mechanically she is almost ready for Txdot inspection. My drivers have CDLs with passenger add on and she carries 15 passengers including the tour guide (me) and driver. She is named Numbskulls because the day I saw her and bought her my boyfriend looked at me and said "you Numbskull!" and that is what she has been called ever since. I would bet that many people on this forum have had skeptics in their own groups when buying an old bus because they fell in love. It's fun to prove them wrong! We launched a package on Groupon yesterday. You can find it there if you want to. I love this bus and this is a long held dream for me. I can't afford to just live in her, which is what I always wanted to do, so this is my plan B and I am very committed to it and excited /scared. I hope you follow my journey..
You're just 60 miles East of me in Kingsland Tx. Lake LBJ. Will have to drive by and check your deal out. Is Beer gonna be served on your cruise? If so, sign me up. ;D
That old bus would look neat in the Trailways colors dropping tourists off in Luckenbach and the other old German towns in the Texas hill country to get a longneck Lonestar.Good luck on your venture but I would have a back up bus waiting.I have a friend that owns 5 Silversides GM buses he is trying to do the same type service in Scottsdale AZ just for special events like the Barrett/Jackson and the Arabian horse show.Only difference between you 2 is he has real deep pockets
I wish I had a second bus! If all goes well I will! Yeah I am definentaly flying by the seat of my pants financially.. Do you know the name of the Trailways red? I have been trying to figure it out with no luck.. Exteriorwise that's the lady thing I need to do is freshen the red.. I've painted the top and shined the aluminum.. I am trying to keep her authentic.. If I could get help figuring out that color it would be amazing! The picture you paint is so cool! I have some original brochures from Trailways that depict exactly that that I am going to frame and hang.. Muldoonman I would love for you to come by! I can't serve beer BUT you can drink beer.. The law says as long as it's not in the drivers reach🤣😅so funny.. But going to Wineries, Breweries and distilleries will probably be a big part of where we go..
That was suppose to say last not lady! Autocorrect🤔although it could've been worse 😝
Kelli,
Please post a few recent interior and exterior pics of the bus. Would love to see how it is coming along. How is the running gear? We all struggle keeping these things on the road. Hoping you got that covered.
Add a couple of trained cats lol people gave Samantha Martin $140,000.00 to buy a Prevost to travel with her cat circus and didn't take her long to raise the cash ;D,When her old 4106 would break down and she needed 5 k for repairs she asked and someone would always pay her bill to save the cats
I can borrow a cat! A dog and even some wildebeest! I could have a rolling zoo!! My driver is an amazing mechanic I am blessed.. Dallas showed him the ins and outs of the mechanics. Windtrader here's an inside picture from last night.. I sleep there when I am working on her..new floor and walls, a slick hole patch, and the cleaned up front.. The rest of the exterior isn't so shiny yet😊 I'll post that when it's done..
I for one wish you all the success in the world on your endeavors. Post by Dallas were some of the first ones I read and used to follow. Will be interesting to see your final results. Being female has nothing to do with your ability go for it and good luck will be looking forward to pictures.
Best money in the bottom of Texas for small operators is birding or butterfly tours. European tourists spend small fortunes to get conducted tours ..We were always flooded with them every winter.
Wow! That is a good idea! So many uses for these machines. I just can't wait till she is done and we are out driving around with her finished.. She always gets lots of attention but it should be exponentially more!
Ed Van thank you for your good wishes! I need all the positive energy I can get!
What's the serial number of this bus? Trailways red is same as Texaco red. Check net, should be able to find formula. I am working out-of-town, but probably have it at home. Trailways font is called "breadstick" or "Hobo". Not sure if you are considering applying Trailways livery. You may not be able if you are for hire. Trailways still very much exists, and defends their trade marks vigorously. They are ok with historic restorations that are not for hire. Attached photo is my 4104.
Tom McNally
Here's what I have for PD4103-1219: S/N 1214-1225 04-05/52 New England Greyhound Lines E8180-E8191 (Boston MA)
Hi Tom;
I appreciate you jumping in! I guess what you mean by being a Trailways Livery is if I apply to be an actual part of the Trailways system? I didn't know that was an option. I wasn't planning on going that route, but I am a commercial venture, so you are saying as long as I don't have the Trailways name on the bus or in my company information I will be alright correct? I love your bus!
I am curious if in your register you show all the previous owners? When I bought this bus Dallas gave me maintenance paperwork that showed PD4103-1219, and then when I was working yesterday I found a plaque in the bus that had a different number on it, PD4103-1085, and when I went back and looked at his posts on BNO, he did have the 1085 # under his handle. Where is the actual V.I.N. #? I am getting all my paperwork together and I need to make sure I have the correct information. Maybe he actually had 2 different ones at 2 different times.. that I don't know.
Thanks for the red info. I will try to find it. I have looked extensively for Trailways red, but not Texaco. If I don't find it, I will probably hit you up again for the info! Thanks Again! And I think I know of at least 1 Scenic Cruiser here that is sitting un-used. I will go check again in the next couple of days. There is a guy in town that specializes in vintage buses and he keeps trying to get me to sell mine! He said he can get me a newer "better" one! His are older, but I think at most he goes back to the 70's. He has the bus that was in "Almost Famous" .Irregardless he is always a wealth of information for me. I will check his place.
The plaque is one place to check for the VIN. The other, more permanent place, is in the compartment under the driver which is accessed from the outside. If you look at the hatch/cover over the horizontal section of the steering shaft you should see the numbers embossed on the aluminum vertical section just above the cover. Here's a photo of mine for reference:
Nice!
Thank-you, I will check it and let you know what the heck.... :-\ :)
Wouldn't be unheard of for a plaque inside the bus to be replaced at some point. I've read that at one time it was possible to obtain blank plaques from GM which companies could stamp to replace a missing/damaged one.
Yes, as Richard referenced, check your "tool compartment" stamped S/N. That number should match your title. Once you get me the serial from the title, we can get you original owner info. I do not have any secondary owner info for 4103, beyond first owner. Yes, any use of the Trailways or Greyhound, etc. name or logo for hire is a no go. Permission has to be granted from companies to use a historical bus in movies. Basically anything that may generate revenue by use of their trade marks.
I'm glad to know that.. I don't have it on the bus but I do in my marketing.. So I cringe as I say this.. But the seller (Dallas) didn't have a title.. I'm going to be applying for a replacement.. Nothing is easy I guess
I would strongly recommend getting the title work straightened out before you go an y further. That should be job one. Each state is different obviously. Do you have a bill of sale? A few states, do not require titles for vehicles of a certain age. In Georgia, (and few others I assume) antique vehicles can be sold on bill-of-sale. Here is one option, if you hit dead end with your DMV: https://broadwaytitle.com/ (https://broadwaytitle.com/)
Good luck
Tom
Thanks Tom, l do have a bill of sale so am going to work on title today..
Hi Tom,
I did find a Scenic Cruiser today.. I suspected that I knew where at least one is, maybe 2. This is the first one! There were other amazing buses there that I will post pictures of.
Close, but not a Scenicruiser. That's what we call a Buffalo. Later GM model. Notice the roof hump is clear forward on the bus. Where it reads "type" on the builders plate (if it were Scenicruiser), it would read PD4501-XXX. To further confuse you, they made several "buffalo" versions PD-4107, PD-4903, PD-4905, PD4108, H8H649, P8M4905A. Buffalos were made from 1966 to 1980. Scenicruisers were made from 1954-1956. Do not feel bad in the least. 99% of the time someone that is new to old buses makes that mistake. I have chased soooo many Buffalos reported as Scenics. In the photo below; see how far back the hump is on a Scenicruiser vs. Buffalo. I appreciate you looking. Please keep it up. Take care.
Tom
Tom is such a nice guy the Buffalo people would be on you like white on rice calling a 4905 a 4501.lol I got into trouble calling a H8H-649 a 4905
Aw dang! Yep I definitely see it! Won't make that mistake again... I saw two other cool buses.... I'm posting.. The yellow one I was able to get into.. It has a new engine and transmission, Inside is a total redo but I love it..
Very cool. Both post-war 1947-1948 PD-3751 or PD-4151 GM "Silversides". I have a soft-spot for those too! Mine still has all the seats. It runs, but needs much attention. I have plans for it, if I get around to it.
Awe shucks Clifford. I'm blushing. :) Buffalo, Eagles, Greyhounds....we love all the animals eh!
Hi Tom, My bus number is PD4103-1085, we found the number as y'all showed me.. I would love know the history..
S/N 1071-1091 03/52 Transcontinental Bus System [Continental Bus System] 316-332 (Dallas TX)
Found the following at: https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/erb01 (https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/erb01)
The Texas intercity busing industry suffered some economic reversal during the Great Depression but rebounded vigorously during World War II, when tire and gasoline rationing encouraged motorists to take the bus. Military installations around the state played a large part in the economic prosperity of the bus lines despite the inability of the owners to acquire sufficient parts, drivers, equipment, and mechanics to keep all of the routes functioning properly. After the end of the war, M. E. Moore founded the Continental Bus System, with corporate headquarters in Dallas, on December 12, 1945. In 1946 all of the franchises of pioneer operator R. C. Bowen were consolidated into Lone Star Coaches and then merged into the new Continental Bus system. On December 9, 1947, all of the Moore and Bowen interests formed the nucleus of the new Transcontinental Bus System (Continental Trailways), with national operations headquartered in Dallas. A symbolic historical transition occurred in the industry on January 1, 1949, when coaches of the Texas Electric Bus Line replaced the interurban rail cars of the Texas Electric Railway between Waco and Dallas.
The postwar optimism of the bus owners did not materialize, and both ridership and revenues entered a period of sustained decline after the war. Most of the small lines ceased operation altogether in the 1950s or sold out to the larger networks of Trailways and Greyhound, which merged in 1987. The Greyhound Corporation sold its bus operations in toto to a group of investors headed by Fred Currey of Dallas in 1986. The entire operation of the Kerrville Bus Company, including Painter Bus Lines, was sold to Fred Kaiser of Kerrville on July 15, 1988. As of 1989 the Texas intercity bus industry was heavily dominated by Greyhound. Other companies still in operation were Arrow Trailways of Texas, Central Texas Trailways, Kerrville Bus Company, Sun Set Stages, and Texas Bus Lines; Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma Coaches; and a few smaller operations.
So.. PD4103-1085 is the V. I. N. correct?
PD4103 is the mfg model number, 1085 is the serial number of the coach. When written this way it surely is confusing to all except this micro hobby group.
I am working on a replacement title.. This is the only # I have.. How do I found a VIN? Sorry I'm so clueless!
The number embossed into the aluminum panel above the steering shaft (under the driver) is the VIN. For example, our old 4106 had a VIN of: PD4106-2412
In your case, the VIN is: PD4103-1085 (unless someone can demonstrate otherwise.) And yes, the PD4103 part of that is also the model number, and the 1085 part is the production number. Together they make up the VIN.
These numbers can sometimes drive the clerks at DMV offices nuts, but they are what they are. Older vehicles had much shorter VIN numbers than the new ones.
Thank you so much! That's what I had thought but needed someone to tell me.. I really appreciate it..
Quote from: richard5933 on August 26, 2018, 08:41:00 PM
The number embossed into the aluminum panel above the steering shaft (under the driver) is the VIN. For example, our old 4106 had a VIN of: PD4106-2412
In your case, the VIN is: PD4103-1085 (unless someone can demonstrate otherwise.) And yes, the PD4103 part of that is also the model number, and the 1085 part is the production number. Together they make up the VIN.
These numbers can sometimes drive the clerks at DMV offices nuts, but they are what they are. Older vehicles had much shorter VIN numbers than the new ones.
Isn't that the truth, my bus is titled
1976 TMC VIN 1286, period. It turned had a few faces like ??? Even within the same company the VIN naming conventions changed over time.
The key is to go to a small town DMV branch office, and find the oldest clerk you can!
If you think registering an old bus is hard, try registering an old Harley Davidson in CA Even if you have the "pink slip", the CHP wants you to give it to them for inspection. Then they keep it for weeks and won't give it back if they "think' the stamped serial number is suspect.
The problem is that if a HD dealer ordered a new engine case, the factory sent it out with a blank serial number, and it was up to the dealer to use whatever was handy to stamp the number on the engine case. No numbers on the frame existed in the old days.
So a lot of people lost their Harleys starting in the eighties because an A-hole CHP officer didn't like you
That actually sounds like the nightmare I have been warned about here as well.. Pretty much word for word.. We are also in the process of getting a CDL.. It's all good but definitely a learning experience!
Quote from: pd4501-771 on August 27, 2018, 03:46:56 PM
The key is to go to a small town DMV branch office, and find the oldest clerk you can!
And go there at 4.45 PM on a Friday afternoon. This worked well for me when I re-registered my bus after I had bought it . . .
John