BCM Community

Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Eagle on February 08, 2007, 08:33:05 AM

Title: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Eagle on February 08, 2007, 08:33:05 AM
What do you folks think of these filters?

www.gulfcoastfilters.com
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: WVObus on February 08, 2007, 09:54:55 AM
I used their system on a 8V71 in one of my trucks with good results. Normally I would change oil around 10 K miles at a cost of 100 dollars on the road,  with their system I was averaging 70-80 K on changes, enough to save its cost mqany times over!  I always took a oil sample when changing filters.  In trucking its cost per mile that makes or breaks you as freight is payed by the mile.

John F.
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Barn Owl on February 08, 2007, 09:43:15 PM
Be sure to do an oil analysis. Oil will go bad; it will oxidize just sitting on the shelf. Shelf life is around five years. Now in an engine there is even more to worry about than just removing the dirt. There are all kinds of chemical reactions that are going on that are not good for your engine, and filters will do nothing to stop it. Unless your oil analysis is coming back good, running an engine 100k + miles as claimed in that web site is just stupid! I don't believe you can, and it's just not worth it. When I get around to hooking up my new scanner I will post my oil analysis.
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: TomC on February 09, 2007, 08:26:51 AM
Instead of buying that expensive filter, paying money to install it, risking another leak point, save yourself the grief and just change your oil more often.  If you have a 2 stroker, just change the oil at 10,000 miles or once a year; if you have a 4 stroke mechanical, 12,000mi; if you have a 4 stroke electronic 15,000 miles.  Any of the add on bypass oil filters are made for over the road applications that are doing 100-200,000 miles a year.  Then that does pay for itself.  But for most of us that do maybe 5-10,000 miles, just additional money spent.  When you think your oil is getting dirty (being black doesn't necessarily mean it is dirty) get it analyzed.  My last oil change I went 2.5 years before I changed the oil with fact from oil analysis.  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: gg04 on February 09, 2007, 02:10:18 PM
black oil in a diesel means it IS dirty,,,It is fuel soot...the major cause of wear in all engines be they gas or diesel...cut out soot build up save your engine...belive thier site or not it is true...have been doing buisness with them for over 30 years..bypass filters work..unless you have real (self generated data) cut out the urban myths....gg04
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Barn Owl on February 09, 2007, 10:04:55 PM

Quotebypass filters work

I agree that they Remove solid contaminants

Quoteunless you have real (self generated data) cut out the urban myths....gg04

There are no "urban myths" in any of the above threads.

Oil does not last forever, that is fact, not fiction.
Oil oxidizes over time even if not used, how does a bypass filter stop that?


http://www.oaitesting.com/g2047.pdf
http://www.noria.com/dictionary/default.asp?definitionsearch=xqxqxqxq222&alphasearch=%25
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: TomC on February 09, 2007, 11:30:48 PM
Since I been selling big rigs (6 years), I can tell you that I haven't seen a bypass filter on ANY of the trucks we have sold.  I always put a fuel/water separator on the fuel intake and a air/water separator on the compressed air.  I know Western Star offers the Luberfiner 750 as an option, Freightliner doesn't list one.  I think the engine manufacturers knew what they were doing when they designed their full flow and bypass filters that are built into the engines from the factories, along with their suggested oil change intervals.  Once again, oil change intervals can be accurately determined by doing regular oil analysis.

On a gasoline engine, yes when the oil is black it is time to change it.  On a Diesel, I know on my trucks, you could get an oil change and a couple of days later it was black-but, once again, the oil analysis told the real story.  Rare is the Diesel engine (the ones that are really working like commercial trucks and buses doing high mileage) that won't turn the oil black in a few hundred miles after oil change.  And besides, carbon is a lubricant in itself.  Good Luck, Tomc
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Gary '79 5C on February 10, 2007, 04:30:56 AM
I agree with Tom, in that the diesel engine will turn its oil black within hours. I have owned 4 old MB diesels and a Volvo diesel, all with the same results. A DD is not different.

Also the oil analysis is critical, used extensively with aircraft engines for the same reasons. I change oil in my 6V92T every 10 K.

I also never understand as to the total idea that motor oil has a shelf life of say 5 years, after it was in the ground for  1-2 million years....

Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Barn Owl on February 10, 2007, 07:20:07 AM
I have been told five years from the lab that does my oil analysis and from the oil distributor that I get my oil from (neither one has a connection with the other). It might be a standard number that has been adopted over the years. Kind of like "change your car oil every 3000 miles".  Since it's cheaper to change the oil in my cars than to do an oil analysis, I change mine between 5k and 6k and that is still shorter than the manufactures recommend intervals. Consumer Reports did an endurance test on NYC Taxies several years ago and found that there was no noticeable wear difference between 3k or 5k when using modern oils. The oil analysis that I have been doing on my pickup truck (diesel) and my tractor (diesel) has shown that I have been changing my oil unnecessarily. My tractor is going on two years now and it looks very black but still reads o.k. I have gotten off topic, but when I inquired about the five year shelf life, I was told that it was because of oxidation, chemical changes in the additives, and the separation and fallout of the chemicals that make up modern oil. This degradation starts to become unacceptable around that time. I am not by any stretch an expert on this, but I tend to be very inquisitive and ask a lot of questions. These things are what I have been told by people who work with oil for a living. If I can be convinced otherwise (the world was flat at one time you know).........well, I am always open to learning something new.  gg04, please don't take what I say as argumentative (after reading what I wrote late last night, I could see the potiential), its not meant to come across that way, I am just throwing this stuff out there for discussion. I like busnuts too much to step on their toes.
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: TomC on February 10, 2007, 07:22:38 AM
Gary- much of the "shelf life" in oil is referring to the additives in the oil going bad.  Many of the solvents are short lived and turn in a relatively short time.  The basic oil is good forever (as far as our lifetime is concerned).  That is why I firmly believe in recycling oil.  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Stan on February 10, 2007, 12:16:55 PM
I don't know anything about the subject so out of curiosity I googled this from Mobil.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Mobil1_Shelf_Life.aspx
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: TomC on February 10, 2007, 04:37:20 PM
Just as example of long oil life.  I stopped at a Diesel generating plant (there are still many in the US) and asked when they changed the oil.  They said they don't.  First, the engines used non detergent straight 40 weight, they had the oil circulate through a bypass centrifigul filter, and they tested it often.  Now mind you these engines had a 350 gal oil capacity per engine (big engines).  When the oil tested with too much acid, they would just drain off 55 gal and pour in 55 gal of new oil.  They would change the oil when they would overhaul the engines, about every 5 years.  And that dirty oil would go through their own mini refining process and the oil would be reused again!  Except for oil that was burned, the operator of the generating plant said he thought there might be oil still in use from when the generating plant was opened in the 40's.  Sort of makes you think!  Good Luck, TomC

PS: Some of the Diesel plants I know of that are still active are: La Junta, Co-you drive right by it on the business route through town-next to a market;  In Montrose, Co. on highway 50 going through town-they have the older single piston Fairbanks-Morse; Tucumcari, NM- on the business route-various Enterprise, Cooper-Bessemer-I got a exhaust valve from one of the engines which is 8 inches across and about 14" long with a 1" diameter stem; the outer Hawaiian islands; Vernon, Ca.- 5 big 24"bore x 36" stroke 8 cylinder double acting 2 strokers (fire on the top and the bottom of the piston. Each cylinder has two combustion chambers)  Course now, the security is probably too tight to be allowed in for a tour after 9/11.  TC
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: gg04 on February 12, 2007, 07:41:43 AM
Carbon is not a lubricant....Over .5 micron it is bonded together and is an abrasive...If you are circulating black oil you are just abrasive blasting the lubricated parts of your engine... major cause for wear in all engines,,, worse in two strokes due to  twice the firing cycle.,Simple test for to much fuel soot, wipe some oil onto your hand from the dip stick..If you cannot wipe of with rag (stains skin) to much soot... Heat and age should turn it dark not black . And oil does not wear out ...Is unnafected by time and the low operating temps of your engine..30 years ago some of the additives were degradable from exposure to moisture but that was 30 years ago...modern times need modern thought...gg04
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: tekebird on February 12, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
I recall several years ago a reputable trucking magazine doing an article on a test someone did on a Oil Bypass Filter.

don't recall who it was or the engine make but they put  something like 500k on the oil, adding some at times but never draining....oil analyisis was better than what it was on standard filter on normal interval.

I assume they did this non stop so so something like a year I guess.......could have been a shorter interval....but I was duely impressed.

oil does oxidize, but IIRC their claim was that the loss of lubicity was from particle contamination not oxidation
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: Kristinsgrandpa on February 12, 2007, 05:37:56 PM
Here is another link that has some oil info. Plus filter info etc.
It is mostly car and P/U truck related.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.html

Ed
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: ChuckMC8 on February 12, 2007, 06:00:37 PM
What intervel does the oil MFG reccomend?
Title: Re: OIL FILTERS
Post by: gg04 on February 13, 2007, 08:58:08 AM
Oil mfg do not give change intervals...around 1963 all major auto mfgs moved change interval to 6000 mile due to modern oil ..in 1965 ford changed all services to 12000 mile includeing need for oil change..by early 70's all major auto mfg suggested 12000 mile oil  change intervals...auto mfg can only require that oil stay within thier specs...the advent of the 10 minute oil change shack brought about the 3000 mile oil change on most of the american public...Oil companies love it, not needed but makes lots of cash...At the last Great American Truck Show (otr) in Dallas all the major engine mfg but one had thier own bypass oil filter system displayed on thier show engines...4 aftermarket mfgs where offering thier systems...mostly based on the current preventive maintenance belifes that  the major cause of wear and breakage on all engines is fuel soot...and other suspended foriegn material..ALL engines need filtering..the factory full flow will only filter untl it goes into bypass due to too much oil volume...on nearly all engines and all brands of filters we tested (this I have not done since 1976) gas engines went into bypass under 2000rpm and diesel filters at around 1300 rpm..then you have no filtering effect at all...just oil from pan to engine..do some research not just quotes from some web site requoting misinformation.....remember over half the information on the web is wrong...and oil filtering ,rerefining is a major suplimental technology that has been part of the oil industry ,with the same engineers and studies, since wwII...gg04