Drove from Kansas City to Cicero Indiana. Coach ran fine and then we get the final mile and she just doesn't want to go...Trans seems to just not be engaging. We pull into our destination and she's leaking a decent amount of my expensive golden juice all over the pavement. It's sprayed all over my toad too. It appears to be coming from the side of the tranny pan but I can't tell for sure. Anyone have any common places a hose or something might fail that I can start chasing down? We need to get this coach home to Michigan Sunday next week. 1992 MCI 102C3 with Allison ATEC 748 trans.
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Probably blew the 0=ring out of the modulator lol or you lost the modulator,you have a neutral and a backup lite switch on the sides just above the pan that can blow apart too
Ok sounds fun. I'll be crawling under there tomorrow. can someone tell me definitely whether I can fill the tranny with 15w40 thus mixing the motor oil with the transynd? I need to top it off but I refuse to pour that expensive juice in for it to all blow out again while I get it to a place I can work on it.
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No you cannot mix it suck it up big guy and spend the money ;D
Lol. Nooooo! What about dextrin iii???
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https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2067804
I hear the new Dexron Vl I think is compatible but it cost 6 bucks a qt at W/M ,lol never could understand why you guys used the Transynd in the older transmission to began with I am a 15/40 guy myself
I use Universal tranny Hyd fluid which is a 10w-20 Hyd oil mix. A 5 gallon bucket fills the tranny and filter. Never a problem, and reasonably priced.
Lol, yeah the guys that use synthetic oil in their vehicles and then change it every 3 to 5 thousand miles.
"Lol, yeah the guys that use synthetic oil in their vehicles and then change it every 3 to 5 thousand miles."
I resemble that remark, but my 255K VW TDI loves it, and so does the original turbo. Very cheap insurance.
So I got under there and determined that it is the lower transmission cooler line hose that goes from the pan to the coolant heat exchanger. It appears to be old and sad. So I am pulling it today and going to try to find a place that can make me a new one.
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The service literature on my b500 says its ok to mix the synthetic and non synthetic trans fluid, but you have to follow the service intervals for the non. I definately would not mix trans fluid and motor oil though. I can't think of any intelligent reason you would want to mix any different fluid types besides an emergency situation, or changing from standard to synthetic.
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Quote from: thomasinnv on June 04, 2018, 08:51:39 AM
The service literature on my b500 says its ok to mix the synthetic and non synthetic trans fluid, but you have to follow the service intervals for the non. I definately would not mix trans fluid and motor oil though. I can't think of any intelligent reason you would want to mix any different fluid types besides an emergency situation, or changing from standard to synthetic.
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Even with a B500 you are not married to a synthetic fluid only if it is in warranty,I have a local friend that use 10w/20w in his charter buses and has for years,if it wasn't for the retarder on my B500 I probably wouldn't be running the Transyd, but I do hate changing the 2 filters and losing a 100 bucks worth of Transyd
Scott most NAPA stores make hydraulic hoses
Like Chevron's web site, most lube brands will have a compatibility chart OR a Contact # to get the straight scoop..
I would choose that option.
Well I removed the hose and I'm having Pirtek make me a new one. I'll probably just be buying normal fluid at this point. I should have taken cliffs advice last year and not put transynd in
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Hopefully you didn't damage it with the fluid low.
Lol using synthetic oil and changing it every 3 to 5 thousand miles.....I use it in my 03 Jetta tdi and change every 10,000 miles. Odometer is 254,982. Runs great, never needed to add oil between changes.
Just out of curiosity, what is the typical pressure in the coolant lines of a transmission? I have an MT 647, I imagine a HT 740 would be similar. And that made me wonder if the temperature recommendations are in the coolant out line, before the transmission cooler, or in the coolant in line after the cooler
Brian
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 04, 2018, 12:03:40 PM`Hopefully you didn't damage it with the fluid low.
Lol using synthetic oil and changing it every 3 to 5 thousand miles.....I use it in my 03 Jetta tdi and change every 10,000 miles. Odometer is 254,982. Runs great, never needed to add oil between changes.
I'm about 200,000 ahead of you (459,000). Never put anything in but Mobil 5W-40 pure synthetic. I run 10 - 12K per oil change. Put in a new timing belt last week - you can still see the original machining marks on the cam lobes. It's pure amazing.
I have 2002 Chevy pickup 5.7 with 282,000 miles lol it never had anything but what the oil change places put in it every 6000 miles, and on sale of course I won't pay over 20 bucks for a oil change , it has had every brand even W/M in the engine and it still doesn't use any oil and gets 21 mpg. I drive it just to see how long it is going to last lol plus it will never happen me paying 60 to 80k for a pickup
Had Prevost Service Center Put Transynd in mine (755CR) and they said 100,000 change intervals.
So to reiterate, can I refill with Dex iii? New hose arrives tomorrow morning so I need to purchase at least 5 gallons of fluid.
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I would. If it turns out transmission was damaged moving it low on fluid, all of will be dumped if it needs pulled and repaired. You can change it more often and save on the cost of the fluid.
Thanks so much... here's to not having toasted my trans. If I did, I think I'm going to swap
In an HT740. I'm already sick of this electronic ATEC garbage.
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I doubt you hurt the transmission if you only take 5 gals it probably went to the limp mode to protect it anyways
What condition is the other hose in???
Yes, you can mix, just follow the lesser correct chart for replacement.
With a "proper" leak like that, I expect the tranny stopped working right, before you could wreck it.
Fill 'r up and down the road.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I was reading the part that it didn't want to go the last mile. I envisioned it slipping to keeping it moving. That hose that leaked....had it been rubbed or hit by something in your travels, or was it just a hose failure?
Quote from: Scott & Heather on June 05, 2018, 05:04:59 AM
Thanks so much... here's to not having toasted my trans. If I did, I think I'm going to swap
In an HT740. I'm already sick of this electronic ATEC garbage.
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makes my heart flutter ;D
So, to answer some posted questions.
I replaced the hose today. Cost $182. Added 4 gallons of fluid and it's now above the lower line of the "hot". Coach seems to drive absolutely fine. Have no idea what will happen 10,000 miles from now but it's ok at this point.
Basically we were a mile from our destination when I went to take off at a stoplight and the coach was kind of lethargic but it did take off and reached normal cruising speed. Then when I pulled into the parking lot I noticed there was fluid all over my truck in the back of my boss and it was dripping fluid out of the pan. At that point it was really hard to get it going and I just basically pulled into my parking spot.
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Other hose is fine for now. Hose wore through at a retaining clamp. Silly design. I removed the clamp.
New hose is pretty:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/23e99672973c1033c8d4308c5aebc98a.jpg)
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on June 05, 2018, 05:25:58 PM
Other hose is fine for now. Hose wore through at a retaining clamp. Silly design. I removed the clamp.
New hose is pretty:
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WOW...$50.00 a foot, that's thievery in the nth degreee..for low pressure 2wire ??? ??? ??? ...
OMg :(
We'll cross our fingers for you.
Well, that is a hell of a hose. Reminds one a bus is NOT a car. lol
Glad you got going again Scott. Hope losing the 4 gals of transmission fluid did not damage the tranny. It does make you wonder though if the seals or other internal parts got roughed up.
That may be an expensive hose, but it looks nice. Larger diameter fittings start to get costly. Big money in that business. Plus, imagine the inventory costs carrying all the different fittings, hoses in different pressure ratings in different sizes.......Good that he was able to get it right away.
Scott,
I had the same thing happen to me in 2010. I was able to fix mine on the road and scoot home.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0)
Glad you got it fixed
David
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 06, 2018, 05:04:23 AM
That may be an expensive hose, but it looks nice. Larger diameter fittings start to get costly. Big money in that business. Plus, imagine the inventory costs carrying all the different fittings, hoses in different pressure ratings in different sizes.......Good that he was able to get it right away.
Parker hose are expensive but good hoses not the cheap made in China stuff, my local hose shop offers me 3 different grades and Parker is always around 30% higher than the others and I go with Parker
If it's a critical application, go with the best.
Quote from: David Anderson on June 06, 2018, 07:05:25 AM
Scott,
I had the same thing happen to me in 2010. I was able to fix mine on the road and scoot home.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0)
Glad you got it fixed
David
And coincidentally last night, while I was under the bus staring up at nothing much in particular (I spend a lot of my life doing that), I saw a few hoses that crossed others which weren't secured to prevent movement. So, a few zipties later I felt that I had done something useful with my life - zipties are cheaper than replacing worn-through and chafed hoses. At this rate my bus will soon be more ziptie than bus. Better safe than sorry.
Yup, good hose ain't cheap. It's mostly Parker or Aeroquip for me, but I've also used some of Eaton's Seltex R4 hose made by SEL in Turkey that seems OK. No Chinese hose for me.
John
Quote from: David Anderson on June 06, 2018, 07:05:25 AM
Scott,
I had the same thing happen to me in 2010. I was able to fix mine on the road and scoot home.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17011.0)
Glad you got it fixed
David
David, you mentioned in your original thread about adding a pressure warning switch to the tranny, to alert you to problems such as the leak you had. Did you ever do this? If so, where did you put it? Don't HT740s have some spare ports that could, maybe, be used for this? I like the idea of adding a low-pressure switch, but I don't know where would be best.
John
Low level in the pan is better the 740's will have pressure to the very end
No more leaks. Topped off fluid. Will drive coach 200 miles on Sunday....will report back.
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The Allison brochure mentions low fluid level sensors available for either a light or buzzer.
Transmission is going to tell you there has been a catastrophic leak, as Scott had, by reduced functionality. It either has juice and goes, or it doesn't.
The driver will find a seeping leak by circle check, dipstick check, puddle, mess in engine room and wearing tranny oil on the rear of the coach and toad.
If a warning device was critical to transmission destruction, you'd have one already...
And, zip ties cut hoses. Use the proper rubber lined hose clamping hardware if there is motion present!!!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on June 07, 2018, 08:32:04 AM
Transmission is going to tell you there has been a catastrophic leak, as Scott had, by reduced functionality. It either has juice and goes, or it doesn't.
The driver will find a seeping leak by circle check, dipstick check, puddle, mess in engine room and wearing tranny oil on the rear of the coach and toad.
If a warning device was critical to transmission destruction, you'd have one already...
And, zip ties cut hoses. Use the proper rubber lined hose clamping hardware if there is motion present!!!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
A temperature gauge on the transmission will tell you,when a Allison get out of it's safety zone from being low of fluid the gauge will climb
Yes, tranny temp is a worthy busnut item.
Some coaches have poor tranny cooling, degraded heat exchangers, previous owners obstructive parts changing, etc.
Cool tranny lives a long life,hot tranny lives a shorter life.
Again, I would hope a busnut discovers and manages a seeping transmission via engaged visual inspection, long before any mechanical measuring device indicates a problem.
A burst leak, to the side of the road you will go, lack of forward motion happening concurrent with any accessory warning devices alerting the driver.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Zip ties? Are they generally a bad idea then? They are used so often everywhere, it did not seem they might cause wear problems.
Quote from: windtrader on June 07, 2018, 11:19:47 AM
Zip ties? Are they generally a bad idea then? They are used so often everywhere, it did not seem they might cause wear problems.
Hose line clamps and brackets are a lot better than Zip Ties
In my box of spare parts I carry a few lengths of old heater hose and radiator hose, just in case I need to use it to wrap around a hydraulic line or electric line as I zip tie it to something. Same goes for when I see something rubbing against a bracket or support. Yeah - there are better and more permanent methods out there, but old hose makes a great temporary companion to a strong zip tie.
Quote from: buswarrior on June 07, 2018, 08:32:04 AM
And, zip ties cut hoses. Use the proper rubber lined hose clamping hardware if there is motion present!!!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I use the zipties only where one hose crosses or touches another, to prevent any movement there. Is there something better for that? When I bought the bus nine years ago there were zipties everywhere to secure hoses to each other where they touch, and I've not seen any resultant damage to those hoses. I also use pieces of old silicone or rubber hose as padding between the zipties and hoses - is that OK?
John
I don't have a problem with Zip Ties I just prefer clamps and brackets for hoses and wiring harnesses
wire loom. waxed string and a butchers knot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pm4jEgYbOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pm4jEgYbOY)
my coach has wire loom on every wire 12 v or 120 v and air line and oil or hydraulic and fuel line . miles and miles of it in different sizes . it is zip tied in a lot of spots to hold them from moving .
the price for the wire loom is cheep and there is a tool to install it
dave
Scott, Glad you found and got the problem fixed. it seems owning one of these coaches it's always something and ain't easy on the pocketbook. As far as zip ties go, everything at my ranch I sold a while back would have fallen apart if not for zip ties and bailing wire. ;D Keep us posted Bubba.
Quote from: muldoonman on June 07, 2018, 04:41:11 PM
Scott, Glad you found and got the problem fixed. it seems owning one of these coaches it's always something and ain't easy on the pocketbook. As far as zip ties go, everything at my ranch I sold a while back would have fallen apart if not for zip ties and bailing wire. ;D Keep us posted Bubba.
you do know that zip ties are a reason for probable cause :)
Lol. You guys offer a never ending stream of comic relief.
For what it's worth, the old hose actually wore through where the rubber coated clamp was squeezing it. I removed said clamp and am letting the hose hang freely. It is very very stiff (old one was too) and it not in a place where it touches anything at all. So I'll take my chances.
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Those pesky rubber coated clamps will do it every time.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on June 07, 2018, 05:42:18 PM
Lol. You guys offer a never ending stream of comic relief.
For what it's worth, the old hose actually wore through where the rubber coated clamp was squeezing it. I removed said clamp and am letting the hose hang freely. It is very very stiff (old one was too) and it not in a place where it touches anything at all. So I'll take my chances.
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LOL something wasn't right according to Hoyle if a rubber coated clamp wore a hole in your hose
hoses are to be installed such that they are relaxed, almost comfortable not strained...not over length and definitely not too short.
It matters.
Caterpillar's hose designations are as close to perfect as one can get, until someone replaces one that was rebuilt out of spec..
Over time, the rubber lining of a matal clamp can rub through and have the metal edge wearing away at hose. Make sure bore of clamp is parallel to hose. Some just tighten clamp and it twists some, causing this in some situations.
Make sure to use clamps that use Michelin rubber lining unless you live out west.lol
Heat with age will evidently cause any hose to fail all you can do is protect one the best way you can
Quote from: luvrbus on June 08, 2018, 06:04:52 AM
Heat with age will evidently cause any hose to fail all you can do is protect one the best way you can
i've seen spiral hose wrap (metal) rub and wear on hoses...i hate that crap.
I've seen that pretty cheesy split sheath (plastic) on wire looms filled with every kind of muck and mire.
I hate that crap too.
does more harm than good.
wow, i learn so much here, my eyes are permanently popping. lol
A bus is designed to run a million miles so the comments about rubbing and such make perfect sense for a commercial vehicle in commercial service.
Wondering whether this is something to put onto the checklist in my feeble brain, it's going to the bottom. Reason is the use I will personally put on this bus under my ownership will be less than what was put on back in it's revenue service. Personally, wherever I see hoses in contact with any other surface, I'll check for any unusual wear and watch, Then pop another Bud and watch the game.
This was the offending clamp:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180610/bf66d8f042304b092655d303235a1174.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180610/3a83cf822aeec67897fc050315477eff.jpg)
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That is just a plastic coated clamp lol I have seen people use those before on wiring with the same results,Parker has good clamps for hoses $ I use a lot of their block clamps,pony up and buy decent clamps ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on June 10, 2018, 05:49:03 AMThat is just a plastic coated clamp lol I have seen people use those before on wiring with the same results,Parker has good clamps for hoses $ I use a lot of their block clamps,pony up and buy decent clamps ;D
Yeah that plastic coating is flimsy and thin. It probably wasn't much good when it was new but with a bit of age and wear on it, BANG.
The type with the separate rubber liner is the preferable kind, for sure. Good old split rubber hose with ties will work as well. The Parker ParKlamp Tube and Hose Clamps are more elaborate and absorb vibration better.