Who would:
1) run a 30 amp RV plug circuit with a flexible plastic line (as per outdoor code) and #6 stranded copper lines inside a bus to a dedicated 30 amp RV outlet that feeds a $3,000 Sun Frost refrigerator that converts the power to 12v DC ?
2) who would then put a GFI circuit (normal GFI outlet plug in) in an almost unaccessible place in the middle of the bay before it gets to the 30 amp breaker switch that feeds the refrigerator 120v RV 30 amp outlet?
3) you tell me.
Geoff,
Sounds like you needed to draw out your design on paper first. lol
Quote from: Geoff on June 02, 2018, 06:44:05 PM
Who would:
1) run a 30 amp RV plug circuit with a flexible plastic line (as per outdoor code) and #6 stranded copper lines inside a bus to a dedicated 30 amp RV outlet that feeds a $3,000 Sun Frost refrigerator that converts the power to 12v DC ?
2) who would then put a GFI circuit (normal GFI outlet plug in) in an almost unaccessible place in the middle of the bay before it gets to the 30 amp breaker switch that feeds the refrigerator 120v RV 30 amp outlet?
3) you tell me.
Easy, only the previous owner would do that! ;D
Someone with a sick sense of humor
Geoff,
I can only think of one person that would put a GFCI in an un accessible area, that would be the same person that thought all 12V wiring =/- should be the same yellow wire. That guy does have one sick sense of humor.
I didn't do it, the P.O. did, among some other wiring mistakes. But not all yellow wire.
It strikes me that along with being in the top 10% of drivers all men think they know how to do electrical wiring. My conversion was started by a high school shop teacher. The first thing I did, even before the first trip, was rip out all of his electrical wiring and start over. It isn't perfectly to code, but it's safe and it works.
Is the high dollar SunFrost toast if so that is a shame it's the best fridge on the market for a rv
Rule #1 for a busnut:
In all things, Beware the Previous Owner, and their crew.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: luvrbus on June 03, 2018, 06:27:59 AM
Is the high dollar SunFrost toast if so that is a shame it's the best fridge on the market for a rv
Yes, the Sunfrost is DOA. It has an internal R134a leak which Stop Leak couldn't slow down. The way those refers are made with super thick insulation and internal cooling lines you would have to destroy the refer to find the leak. If anyone wants to give it a shot to repair it is still whole. All I'm going to do is save the 12v pump to build a quiet air compressor and throw the rest in the dumpster.
Someone probably put a screw in the wrong place that is some heavy copper lines they use,aren't they guaranteed for life on a line breaking inside the housing ? they were at 1 time
There are no screws going into the sides of the refer. I called Sunfrost and they told me the unit was not repairable, but what do they know? If you could pinpoint the leak you could patch it with the least damage but there is no indication of a leak anywhere. The owner is replacing it with an apartment size refrigerator.
I guess he has changed his policy now, the owner of Sunfrost is a total @$# IMO I don't deal with him anymore
Important as a buyer of a converted coach to put on the watch list. So many variables in any converted coach to be aware of. These things are truly a house and car. A more complicated house to boot as it has additional electrical source system(s). Plus a bus is not a car, so at least different if not more simple or more complex.
I have a Sun Frost refer in my Eagle and love it. Last week I just ran a new 12 AWG wire directly to my batteries because I had too much of a power loss due to a long run with inadequate wiring before and it would start to shake, rattle, and roll after being unplugged from shore power for about an hour because it was only getting about 8V when my house batteries were at 12V and it does not like low voltage. Now it runs like a champ.
The good thing about these units is you can practically run them all week on one 6V battery because they are insulated so well as noted above. (maybe a bit of an exaggeration :-) ) I met the creator of these units, Larry and he is a very interesting very smart guy. It is really too bad he quit making these as they are still one of the best units out there IMHO. Thankfully he still has some repair parts in stock if you need them.
If I was going to purchase another conversion, after a general look over, I would check the workmanship of the plumbing and wiring. both would have to pass muster before even considering purchase.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on June 03, 2018, 03:55:33 PM
I have a Sun Frost refer in my Eagle and love it. Last week I just ran a new 12 AWG wire directly to my batteries because I had too much of a power loss due to a long run with inadequate wiring before and it would start to shake, rattle, and roll after being unplugged from shore power for about an hour because it was only getting about 8V when my house batteries were at 12V and it does not like low voltage. Now it runs like a champ.
The good thing about these units is you can practically run them all week on one 6V battery because they are insulated so well as noted above. (maybe a bit of an exaggeration :-) ) I met the creator of these units, Larry and he is a very interesting very smart guy. It is really too bad he quit making these as they are still one of the best units out there IMHO. Thankfully he still has some repair parts in stock if you need them.
Okay--
This defunct Sunfrost is selling for almost $3,000 new plus shipping. It lasted about 15 years. That makes minimum $200 a year. You can buy an apartment refrigerator for under $400, that will last 20-30 years or more. I don't care if the Sunfrost runs off fashlight batteries. The value is not there.
I know bus people that have had the Sunfrost for 30 years and they have never missed a beat,I owned one for 23 years and cost me 7 bucks in 23 years,they are a boon-dockers dream and they will run a week on a good 12v battery
Quote from: Geoff on June 03, 2018, 05:21:09 PM
Okay--
This defunct Sunfrost is selling for almost $3,000 new plus shipping. It lasted about 15 years. That makes minimum $200 a year. You can buy an apartment refrigerator for under $400, that will last 20-30 years or more. I don't care if the Sunfrost runs off fashlight batteries. The value is not there.
This exactly why they went out of business. People do not care about quality like they used to and are buying disposable refrigerators instead. A Sun Frost could be rebuilt over and over again if necessary which it seldom was. But now refers, batteries and solar are cheaper so people are not willing to pay for this kind of quality to keep their food colder for longer periods of time. Mine is going on 23 years now and cools as good as new.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on June 03, 2018, 05:58:51 PM
This exactly why they went out of business. People do not care about quality like they used to and are buying disposable refrigerators instead. A Sun Frost could be rebuilt over and over again if necessary which it seldom was. But now refers, batteries and solar are cheaper so people are not willing to pay for this kind of quality to keep their food colder for longer periods of time. Mine is going on 23 years now and cools as good as new.
I want to see one of the throw apartment fridges made today last 20 years,that is like comparing a SubZero fridge to a Sears fridge
You haven't won me over. I have 20 years on a Sanyo stainless steel apartment size refer that draws 1.5 amps @120v. I am not boondocking and living off solar in the middle of nowhere. I would have to find a whale to have enough width to shove this Sunfrost where it belongs.
Quote from: Geoff on June 03, 2018, 06:08:16 PM
You haven't :De over. I have 20 years on a Sanyo stainless steel apartment size refer that draws 1.5 amps @120v. I am not boondocking and living off solar in the middle of nowhere. I would have to find a whale to have enough width to shove this Sunfrost where it belongs.
This is fine Goeff. Nobody will make you buy a Sun Frost but we will still like you. :D Just be sure to make it so it is easily removable as you will be replacing it soon. The apartment refrigerators are not built to bounce down the road like being in an earthquake all day. A lot of people are building buses out of cheaper appliances now and I hear about it on a regular basis as they fail. Others are putting more expensive European refrigerators in their conversions because of the higher quality, better cooling, and ruggedness. Only you can decide what is best for your bus which is why we own buses, because everyone is built to suit a particular persons need. You probably don't need a $1200 water pump either, but Prevost folks like long high pressure even-flowing showers. My $100 Sur-Flow works good enuf for me.
Gary, with all do respect as the owner and publisher of BCM; I have been around the bus conversion world a lot longer than you. I have a top of the line water pump already, but that is neither here or there. I just think the concept behind buying a Sunfrost refer is wrong. That is my only point of this thread.
Thank you,
Geoff
Ah ha!!! Eagles bounce going down the road... Get a GMC so the apartment refers last 30 years and you don't have to splurge for a Sunfrost.lol
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 03, 2018, 06:59:48 PM
Ah ha!!! Eagles bounce going down the road... Get a GMC so the apartment refers last 30 years and you don't have to splurge for a Sunfrost.lol
Eagles don't bounce going down the road, they porpoise on purpose! ;D
Just buy plenty of straps to keep the door closed when installed in GM you will be ok
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on June 03, 2018, 06:18:54 PM
. You probably don't need a $1200 water pump either, but Prevost folks like long high pressure even-flowing showers.
till the tank runs dry..then the butler needs to make a run to town. ;D
Lol
And does anyone know what kind of oil to run in a two stroke detroit.
next rant.
LOL
by the way I love my air ride seat in my gm
uncle ned
40w and plenty of it...
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 04, 2018, 12:05:33 PM
40w and plenty of it...
The other school of thought says to use less than full vs. plenty :)
Keep the plenty part in jugs in one of the bays.☺
The 10.1 cu ft apartment refrigerator is in. Fits very nice and the doors have a good tight seal so they won't come open on the road. Estimated cost per year to operate is $36 a year with auto defrost. It's a Majic Chef from Home Depot. Black.
Quote from: Geoff on June 06, 2018, 10:24:36 AM
The 10.1 cu ft apartment refrigerator is in. Fits very nice and the doors have a good tight seal so they won't come open on the road. Estimated cost per year to operate is $36 a year with auto defrost. It's a Majic Chef from Home Depot. Black.
That is a China made Heir good luck with it they are very sensitive to room temperature,and if something happens in the 1 year warranty don't mention RV because they won't warranty it.I have the exact same fridge setting in the shop they refused warranty on because the owner told them it was a RV
Quote from: luvrbus on June 06, 2018, 11:04:35 AM
That is a China made Heir good luck with it they are very sensitive to room temperature,and if something happens in the 1 year warranty don't mention RV because they won't warranty it.I have the exact same fridge setting in the shop they refused warranty on because the owner told them it was a RV
That's okay. I got a USA $3,000 Sunfrost that is going to the dump.
I'd switch to a house refer in mine, but interior was layed out for a Norcold and changing would require major reworking of interior layout.
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 06, 2018, 07:54:25 PM
I'd switch to a house refer in mine, but interior was layed out for a Norcold and changing would require major reworking of interior layout.
but, it would be worth it, to me.
The little fridges are not doing real good since they went from R134 to R410 3 years ago,they are so sensitive to room temperatures if you read the instructions they all but tell you to install one in a air condition environment.I have one in the shop 8 months old that looks new free for any takers
The Sunfrost must have been the first thing put in the bus. It sat on a 4" platform and just barely cleared a shelf above it. I had to remove cabinet doors and take the lower part of the couch out, then take the front of the Cruise Air out to get clearance. I used a 3' wide x 8' long piece of plywood to slide the Sunfrost towards the passenger windshield, then flip the refer on it's back to make it out the hole. I then drug it out with the winch on my tractor far enough to pick it up with my crane. It cleared the interior by a 1/2". The new refrigerator went right in and stayed in the shipping box till the last minute, after I spent 1/2 hour tearing out the platform which was incredibly well built.
The new refrigerator then cleared the top by 1/2". I have 10" gap on the side to put a sliding pantry. I hope this new refer lasts, I thought they still used R134a which has worked well for years in bus conversions.
P.S. I read the manual. Yup, some stuff to watch out for. The cooling coils are inside the housing, so the refrigerator can overheat a lot easier. Not made for garages and RV's. My Sanyo is better suited for RV'S.
I'm with Geoff on this one. Had a Samsung 26.4 cubic foot house fridge in the MCI 9 that is still going strong. It's almost 15 years old. I have a samsung in my new coach now. Like Geoff, I always have access to power. I'm not boondocking in my 40,000 lb coach. If I feel like doing that, I'll go camping. Literally. In a tent.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I was looking at refers at HD just the other day. Glad I trusted my gut and stayed away from Magic Chef. I can't remember what I asked to buy originally, but I got the Whirlpool 17.6 cu. ft. Was the only smaller fridge they had on-hand. Rated at $48/yr. and had a pretty decent discount. The HD guys had fun tossing 48 sheets of insulation, more than that of various plywood/OSB, shower enclosure and that fridge in through the e-window. One of the pro guys even snapped a short vid as he came through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjzQwocx. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjzQwocx.)
Edit: I failed to rant... Yay, Dewalt sale at Home Depot, oh - but not the table saw I want :(
We don't know why the Magic Chef failed at Clifford's place. If it was installed in a tight pocket it would overheat. I talked to the bus owner and told her I had to leave the gap open on both sides of the refrigerator because the cooling coils were on the sides and she was alright with that. Otherwise, the refrigerator works great and looks good.
They get a little warm it will go into a cycle mode where it only has 1/2 the cooling ,I know other people that are not happy with that fridge it's not just me good luck
a good refer exhausts out the front at the bottom.
a condenser/coil brush is a good thing.
at least twice a year in a home
more often in a coach
who has one ?
me does :P
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcleanfit.com%2Fimages%2Frefirgeration-coil-cleaning-brushes.jpg&hash=cdb8916bc59f6cd9effe496d029a0bec25aced24)
Sure seems where installed can have affect on efficiency, reliability, and durability. Most likely a household unit is designed for placement in a kitchen against a wall with space for air to circulate on all sides. I'm certain it was not designed to be put in an enclosed bus, jammed in with little free air space.
Seems like with proper ventilation and vibration control, it should serve as well as if in a home kitchen.
Quote from: windtrader on June 08, 2018, 12:10:50 PM
Sure seems where installed can have affect on efficiency, reliability, and durability. Most likely a household unit is designed for placement in a kitchen against a wall with space for air to circulate on all sides. I'm certain it was not designed to be put in an enclosed bus, jammed in with little free air space.
Seems like with proper ventilation and vibration control, it should serve as well as if in a home kitchen.
Lol that fridge is not even recommend for use in your garage they want it in a dark cool corner away from everything
Well, naturally the specific unit you select needs to meet your criteria. Whether one china made unit is better than one from mexico or with this or that feature, do your homework. But the general principle of ensuring proper and adequate air flow would apply in all situations. Swapping for a larger AC powered apt/house reefer is not even on my list now but I would certainly consider it and feel I could get one to satisfactorily work for us.
That is my point Don you pay for a product you shouldn't have to engineer a install to make their product work or dig through the fine print for the got you crap
Quote from: luvrbus on June 08, 2018, 12:58:12 PM
That is my point Don you pay for a product you shouldn't have to engineer a install to make their product work or dig through the fine print for the got you crap
My 1999 GE 14 cu/ft. specs, clearance 1" back & top and 3/4" on the sides.
It has less.
Quote from: eagle19952 on June 08, 2018, 02:20:01 PMMy 1999 GE 14 cu/ft. specs, ...
Gee, only 19 years? It must be about to roll over dead, right. They don't make stuff like they used to!
I have to admit there are some interesting articles about refrigerators and freezers that will be in a garage enviroment. Some should be listed that way on their energy labels. Even more of an interest would concern uninsulated spaces with these appliances being used.
I appreciate the tip or heads up, because this aspect is more likely to affect us.
Good day
Floyd
I've had a Sanyo Stainless steel 10.3 apartment size refrigerator in my bus for over 15 years. It is always running. Never a problem. The cooling tubes are exposed on the back, and they are hot when it is cycling. Putting the cooling fins on the inside of the refrigerator walls seems to be a recent move on the part of manufacturers. You just have to allow space for the wall of the refer to cool.
It was 90f degrees here the last couple of days and the Magic Chef worked fine. I allowed 5" on each side of the refrigerator for air flow. I could feel the heat on the sides of the refer when it cycled.
I hope it works out for her Geoff,you may need to add a couple of muffin fans later like another guy I know did to keep his from 1/2 cycling,10 inches is a lot of space to give up in a 35 ft bus just cool a fridge IMO
My little under counter frig has the cooling tubes in the side walls and seemed to run all the time. I added a 2" computer fan which is directed at the compressor and a 5" computer fan on a thermostatic control which vents out the side of the bus via a dryer vent. Run time dropped in half. Jack
(https://s15.postimg.cc/kdlz60ymj/IMG_20160521_183500.jpg)
Jack can you still dry your clothes why you are on the internet uummmmm. ;D
lol, yup, as long as I have enough rope and close pins! Jack ;D
Floyd raises a good point. Nearly all residential appliances are designed to live inside a temperature controlled space. They weren't designed to run at very low or high ambient temps. If some are designed to run in these conditions, then those are likely better candidates than standard house unit.
Designed to run at average ambiant temperature's? These are still typical refrigerant systems. They aren't that fussy. They are designed to handle extremes so they are totally reliable at normal temps. I wouldn't worry about it. Just go with a brand with a good history of reliability.
Is anyone required to have an ice maker/ dispenser? Just curious
Good day
Floyd
They are having trouble with big 2 to 4 door fridges in 2 mil $ RV 's because of heat ,most are getting replaced with the Sub Zero with the compressor on top of the fridge.I don't see that happening with the average bus owner paying as much for a fridge as they do for a bus
We have a separate U-line ice maker in current and previous coach
Most people are just using the little counter top ice makers now 100 bucks
Ok thanks guys, I will take a look.
Appreciate the help
Floyd
If you go the U Line I have a couple (3) I'll make you a deal on
Probably the best deal is pick up a bag or two of ice at Walmart or wherever and keep in freezer. That is if it is at least capable of keeping it frozen in hot weather.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZIOQSY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZIOQSY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Two of these will last a pint of bourbon....more ice than I need or want :)
Neat on ice saves water too. :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Jzm1b0u-L._SX425_.jpg)
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 10, 2018, 04:52:00 AM
Designed to run at average ambiant temperature's? These are still typical refrigerant systems. They aren't that fussy. They are designed to handle extremes so they are totally reliable at normal temps. I wouldn't worry about it. Just go with a brand with a good history of reliability.
new wave "smarter" refers are fussy.
and that doesn't mean Bluetooth only....
I use the NovaKool 9cu/ft. 12v/120v using what used to be Danfoss compressor. Only refer I've seen (RV type) that has hot air out the bottom front. Very quiet, only 5.5 amps at 12vdc. Not cheap though. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on June 11, 2018, 07:32:29 AMI use the NovaKool 9cu/ft. 12v/120v using what used to be Danfoss compressor. Only refer I've seen (RV type) that has hot air out the bottom front. Very quiet, only 5.5 amps at 12vdc. Not cheap though. Good Luck, TomC
Pretty much the same here, except mine has a little less cu. capacity and a 4.5A/12V current draw. It's defrosting right now ... one of my fave parts of owning it. :-\
We currently have an older Norcold - DE707 which runs off of 12vdc or 120vac. What's strange about it is that the compressor actually runs on 23v AC (per manual) and uses a transformer to convert both ac and dc. It eats up about 5.5 amp to run. It's 44+ years old and still can make cold nicely, although it has trouble keeping up if the temp inside the bus gets over 90 degrees. Still can keep the inside of the fridge at 45 degrees, even then.
Not being too keen on trusting a 44+ year old appliance, it's being replaced with a Vitrifrigo 5.3 cu ft 12v/120v model which is ever so slightly smaller than the Norcold. Consumption on this one should be about 2.6 amps. I plan on adding two 12v computer fans to help with the air movement around the new unit. I only hope that I get half the life from the new fridge as the old Norcold.
I'm planning to keep the old one - just in case...
How I defrost my NovaKool- take the drip trays out. Turn off refer, then put towel below evaporator in refrigerator section, and below evaporator in freezer. Typically about 4 hours will be done. Then wipe off the excess water and turn it back on-install drip trays (I don't use them anymore). Good Luck, TomC