Hello all - I am preparing to replace all front and rear Radius Rod bushings, has anyone done this on a 102 series, if so did you use the MCI PN#12J-1-133 or a urethane aftermarket bushing?
How big of a job is this? This looks like a big job with lots of heavy lifting?? Can anyone provide any insight?
Thanks
SolarDude
Because I have an MCI, I can't shed any light on a 102 specifically, but I can tell you about the job. I'd say first and foremost, follow all of the warnings you're going to get about blocking the bus up securely because you're going to be crawling around under it. Make sure it's sitting on as solid a surface as you can before you start the work. It'll be much easier to get the rods back on after bushing replacement if the undercarriage doesn't move in the process.
The rods themselves are heavy. My guess is 25-45 pounds apiece. You'll most likely have to pry a couple of them off because the bushings have bonded to the metal. On mine, getting to a couple of the nuts was a challenge, but do-able. Removing the old bushings from the rods can be a challenge too. I used a couple of pry bars and an oscillating tool to cut them in strategic places. I used an air-powered needle scaler to get all of the rust off, and painted mine to prevent more rust. I know there are people who prefer the rubber bushings, but I used the urethane and they've worked out fine. I don't know that I've seen a tremendous improvement in ride quality or suspension improvement, so maybe mine didn't need it to begin with. I just felt like it was time to do them since I had no service records.
In summary, it's a very physical job compounded by the fact that things will be rusted-on, stuck, or you'll find some more things to replace while you're under there, but it's totally do-able. Just take your time and follow the service manual. Let us know how it goes!
On car forums, it has been commonly reported that body control and handling have improved, however at the expense of ride quality. When and if I do mine, I'm going with factory ones. You could call Luke and ask him of any issues to expect. He also sells the bushings.
For a week before soak the end nuts with Kroil 2 times a day. You will need heat like a torch or at very least a small tank flamer. These nuts don't want to move and have heard of people snapping them off and having to weld back on. the rear ones are especially hard to get to. Make sure you stabilize the front axle so when you take them off it does not move because it a bugger to get back in place if it does. Do one at a time make it a bit easier.
If you use the rubber ones lots of tire lub to get them back on. Buy a gallon of that stuff.
Just for fun, price the job?
It can be a horribly ugly, parts breaking and physically challenging adventure.
If you are up for the game, go for it!!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
OK - Well as directed I soaked the front bolts with PB tonight, I ordered the front 8 bushings to get me started from Luke. I also asked Luke how much it would cost to do the job for reference, ~ $1500 for labor if things went well, the bushings cost $36 each. So, on a non-rusty bus ~ 2k total. I also called a local bus shop in Minneapolis, they quoted 3K, presumably because everything is rusty up in Minnesota. Fortunately, my bus is a Southern bus, and is mostly rust free.
OK - so this will the first time I have lifted the bus... I surveyed the undercarriage today, I'm wondering, do I blocK up the entire front even if I'm only working on one side at a time? I see some spots to jack on the axle close to the air bag, but very limited on the carriage. I was looking for a procedure in the maintenance manual, it did not jump out at me on my mediocre review. I'm thinking jack on the axel only and block body, let axel drop some and block axel.
Let me know if I've assessed it wrong.
Additionally, this is the first time I've tried to remove the bus tires, I gave it my best shot with a three foot breaker bar, no luck. I am going to pick up the HF electric impact with 1200flbs see if that works..
P.S.
I forgot to mention urethane bushings to Luke, he did not mention them either, so my assumption is that when given the option for both, he would rather use the rubber ones. These are more work though. I guess, in my mind, if I have to do the job, I might as well do it the way it was designed.
SolarDude.
I would try a 3-4 ' extension on the breaker bar but you have to support the socket extension on a jack stand or make up a wood support to hold it up . then push down on the breaker bar with all your weight . I do not think the electric gun will do it
I use a 48 " torque wrench and my hands are right at the end of the wrench . oh ya when the socket falls off the nut you will get a nice blood blister on one of your fingers when all your weight slams your hand to the floor . don't ask how I know
dave
6 foot cheater pipe for wheel lugs.
Why struggle?
Even the kids have a chance to participate with a long bar.
Go shopping for a good pipe that fits over the end of the breaker bar, and add a cast collar to the end,so you don't de-form the end of the pipe.
Don't use your big ratchet, you'll blow the ratchet teeth out of it. Watched that once, some people don't like to listen...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
i like 7 foot minimum...that way u can fully sleeve the breaker bar...
schedule 80 aluminium is nice.
Not positive on a 102 but on my MCI the driver's side lugs are left hand thread. Watch out for that.
Don't try to loosen with less than minimum 3/4 drive breaker bar, sockets and extension, where needed. 1/2 inch drive stuff is too springy. You can oil studs and seats at wheels a couple of days before attempted removal. Use a wire wheel with a drill if there is rust or corrosion on protruding threads. Carefully examine cleaned end of studs for an embossed "L". Nuts are embossed also on face. That means the threads are @$# backwards. Clockwise to loosen, counter clockwise to tighten. Should be on Driver's side of coach. Some have all normal threads on both sides, and a few may have on other side from inexperienced mechanic in past. Always clean and check. I know many have learned the hard way the first time Don't mix up with other ones
Well - I invested in a set of 1" drive sockets and 1" drive 4 foot breaker bar. That with an additional 5' pipe got the first wheel removed.
I have the front of the bus mostly blocked up. I was surprised by how tall I had to block up the frame to get the axel to sit at ride height 11" between upper and lower air bag plates. I will post pictures to make sure the I am not blocking it completely wrong before I start to crawl around under the bus tomorrow. It looks pretty good so far.
SolarDude.
I would go around and oil all the bolt threads or use penetrant on all bolt heads frequently on the radius rod fasteners a couple of days befor starting any removal process. Will give it ome time to soak in. Also on the bushings themselves.
I was able to get one of the break drums removed today, and the second wheel removed.
I was in need of a new impact wrench, I have been watching/hoping for the new Milwaukee with 1400 ft lbs to go on sale.. No luck there, so I paid full price $229 for the tool only, I tried it out on the Lug nuts, I had doubts, but, it worked! The battery powered impact was able to remove bolts that required 8+ foot breaker bar to loosen by hand. Impressive. A little spendy, but better than dragging around a air hose.
SolarDude
I was inspecting the break drum, I noticed it has lots of cracks... is this normal?
SolarDude
I'm not a heavy equipment breaks expert (yet) but everything appears to me to in order here. fewww.
Typically jobs like this expand in scope as things progress, so far so good for now.
I noticed a broken bolt on the hub that normally would keep the drum centered, they were all missing on this wheel. On my cars, I too have left these bolts out as they tend to seize up. What do you guys do? Should I find some bolts for the holes?
SolarDude
The bolts secure the drum to hub. If you lose the wheels from an axle, this still keeps drum on. Usually flat head screws. Used to be brass for ease of removal for brake servicing. If you replace them and the new ones are steel, use antiseize on threads for ease of removal down the road. I don't think brass is used anymore, but that is what i'd use. Either will work.
Heat cracks on drum normal, but lets see what the rest say. I put after market plastic bushings on mine and was told the rubber would give a better ride so I changed out the front to rubber. It was easy when only a month old.
i would not worry about the "centering" screws.
losing a wheel with drum will be the least of your problem.
i would clean the roller and S cam surfaces. the brakes will feel and operate mo better.
oh, and check the S cam bushings, no one ever does...
The screws keep the drums on in the factory; no real use after the wheels are installed. If you want to use them and be able to remove them, install them with medium strength Loc-tite 242.
I was able to get the first radius rod out today without too much hassle. I was able to remove the bushings after some tribulations. Initially I tried pounding it out, without a tool with the correct size pilot I could not hit the "race" hard enough without fear of damaging the ID of the bore. So I started cutting slots in the race, I did not want to cut all the way through the race, so I cut as close as I thought possible without cutting through and damaging the bore. Then I used a chisel to knock out the small piece and the rest of the race followed easily. 2 down 14 to go. I'm sure it will get easier as I go.
Additionally almost all the studs came loose before the nuts... not sure what to do there.. Just put them back in like that, or try to get the nuts free?
SolarDude
Wouldn't a walking beam style press do this job...
We had one, but we rented/borrowed them too.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v2MMu8q2PkQ/maxresdefault.jpg)
That looks very handy! It looks like a porta power specifically made for pushing out bushings. Neat. I have access to a porta power, my goal was not to have to build/buy anything too fancy if possible. I'm not in a rush yet... and so far mostly everything is coming apart pretty easy after a little thought. Hopefully the my luck continues.
SolarDude.
Well I finished the front bushings, I have started on the rear, I reassembled the left rear, but I am wondering if anyone knows how to make sure the off-set cam bushing adjuster is set correctly. I marked it before I took it all apart, but I don't see how you would ever use it to adjust anything with it as it's all so tight you would have to disassemble the parts to actually adjust anything. I had a tough time getting the cam out of the bore as it is a press fit.
Is there a measurement to double check? I looked for info related to measuring some fixed distance with no luck. Also, the pictures I could find showed a collar without the offset... strange.
item 19 is the eccentric cam I'm wondering about.
SD
My thoughts
Check the brake drum cracks to ensure none reach the outside edge of the drum. As stated, heat checking, as pictured, is common and not reason for rejection.
Check the drum diameter with a good drum gauge, it looks like the beginning of the s head of the cam is pretty dirty and the roller was not sitting at the starting point indicating quite a bit of drum wear considering the shoe thickness.
Clean all mating surfaces so everything sits flat to get the proper torque on the wheel nuts.
Use a mirror if you have one take a look at the back edge of the brake shoes (if you are not going to remove them completely) to check for cracks or delamination of the friction material.
That bushing tool for Friegthliner suspension pivot bushings is a almost a must for installation of the bushings in that suspension. Without a tool you would have to remove the springs and do it in a press.
I am not familiar with your bus but if it is eccentric I would suspect it is an axle alignment device. If so you would have to re-check the alignment after assembly. Never-seize is your friend.
You can leave the drum screws off if you prefer. I will reinstall mine when reinstalling drums. Helps prevent drum cocking and not allowing wheels to fully seat. Could seat later, and result in loose lug nuts.