Hello again,
Thanks for your previous help.
I'm getting ready to wire the roof A/C units and they say to use marine wire.
What is the technical term for this?
Thanks
Rick
"Marine" implies multi-strand and tinned. It also implies $$$
Are you saying the A/C mfg. paperwork recommends this. Im just curious in their reasoning, is this a marine unit by chance. But anywho, marine wire would have a USCG representation label or stamping.
Some read materials, in all this there is plenty of places that sell good products.
http://www.marinewireandcable.com/2013/10/marine-grade-wire.html (http://www.marinewireandcable.com/2013/10/marine-grade-wire.html)
Good day there
Floyd
Quote from: rkillmon on April 23, 2018, 02:56:05 PM... I'm getting ready to wire the roof A/C units and they say to use marine wire. ...
I don't think I've ever seen any installed with anything in an RV or bus but Romex (OK, my sample set is small but ... there it is).
thanks to all
The link was great
Usually stranded romex is what is to be used. To resist failure due to flexing and vibration in a vehicle.
Overkill I know, but that is all I used ;D
There is stranded wire and there is fine stranded wire. NEC devices generally work with 9 to 12 stranded wires. The fine stranded wire needs to land in a device designed for it.
Marine wire is usually very flexible and has many strands to make it flexible, not recommended for an RV, ends need proper termination otherwise the strands brake off. On our conversions I used MC light 12ga for all circuits, roof tops should be 12ga 20 amp because of the start up draw amps.
Perhaps better to say that fine stranded wire, such as marine wire, needs to be managed correctly, the proper terminations, tools and methods.
Good for the RV, if you work with it correctly?
I like to use the tinned marine cable for battery cables, costs a lot more, but resists the inevitable green and black plagues, as every strand has the "rust proofing" installed.
Not to start a debate, but for the information and decision making of the newbie busnut, regular solid house wire is not recommended by the various electrical authorities for use in a vehicle, as the vibration can work-harden the solid copper, break or weaken it, allowing points of heat generation, or circuit failure.
Proudly spend a bit more money on stranded cabling, and go big for the high amp circuits.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I totally agree Marine wiring has its benefits. This part of connections or connectors is so many times skipped with these exceptional wires. The connectors are good if chosen and crimped at the same attention level used in deciding on marine wire. We should just recall the base standards this wire uses and then honestly say yes it maybe above our normal needs. Just to repeat what you all already remember in your studies 🙂 marine wiring has benefits for: water, fuel, corrosion and many more. This install requires more time and some more qualified tools. ( whats new !)
https://www.pacergroup.net/terminals-connectors/fork-terminals/ (https://www.pacergroup.net/terminals-connectors/fork-terminals/)
Have a good day
Floyd
THHX stranded wire pulled through light weight plastic conduit.
Lowes and Home Depot sell single conductor thhn stranded wire you can use in conduit, rigid or flexible.
Not all Marine-rated wire is tinned. SGT-M has high heat ratings and is oil resistant. Tinned marine is the ultimate in cost, but SGT-M is rated for marine use without the tinning, and has self-extinguishing insulation. It might be the best balance of cost and appropriateness with the right connectors. (The recent discussion on battery cables covers some of this).
Just curious and not seen any cost comparison tables. Does anyone have research into the costs of the different wires, lugs, crimpers, shrink, etc?
Quote from: windtrader on April 25, 2018, 11:35:17 AM
Just curious and not seen any cost comparison tables. Does anyone have research into the costs of the different wires, lugs, crimpers, shrink, etc?
I carry this one. New they are $350.00
Lugs are 3-4$ each fot battery/starter 1/2 in holes...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenlee-Dieless-Crimper-al-6-4-0-cu-8-250-preowned-indenter-1981/222932490488?hash=item33e7cfd8f8:g:W3wAAOSwzWla2L~9 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenlee-Dieless-Crimper-al-6-4-0-cu-8-250-preowned-indenter-1981/222932490488?hash=item33e7cfd8f8:g:W3wAAOSwzWla2L~9)
What brand of the roof airs is he installing? I'd like to see the installation instructions online.
Donald, that crimper is similar to the manual punch style. Did you look at the ones that crimp all around? Some folks here mention that style as being really solid too.
This is the hydraulic crimping tool I use. Looks like the price is now about $50.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It crimps all the way around. Works well, although I could use a few more dies to accommodate different lug sizes.
Quote from: richard5933 on April 26, 2018, 03:03:05 AM
This is the hydraulic crimping tool I use. Looks like the price is now about $50.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It crimps all the way around. Works well, although I could use a few more dies to accommodate different lug sizes.
I have one like that, it came with a bunch of dies. I like the way it crimps. The destructive testing I have done shows the crimp renders the individual strands in to a solid mass.
how funny. two votes for the same crimper. In my wish list :) Thanks
Quote from: windtrader on April 26, 2018, 05:17:12 PM
how funny. two votes for the same crimper. In my wish list :) Thanks
Make that 3 votes. I have had the same unit for probably close to 10 years now.
Quote from: windtrader on April 25, 2018, 11:45:44 PM
Donald, that crimper is similar to the manual punch style. Did you look at the ones that crimp all around? Some folks here mention that style as being really solid too.
I bought it surplus from a rural electric utility.
was good enough for them.
Greenlee is a highly respected supplier to the industry.
What else can i say.
it works well.
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 26, 2018, 08:19:59 PM
I bought it surplus from a rural electric utility.
was good enough for them.
Greenlee is a highly respected supplier to the industry.
What else can i say.
it works well.
Greenlee is a good product but a little pricey for the average bus person,I would love to have a GreenLess dieless crimper but for 2500 bucks it is not on my bucket list. I just buy the 50 buck Chinese made crap every 2 or 3 years and toss it.I do have dieless hand crimper I love it not have to deal with the dies
Quote from: richard5933 on April 26, 2018, 03:03:05 AM
This is the hydraulic crimping tool I use. Looks like the price is now about $50.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GXQ2E5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It crimps all the way around. Works well, although I could use a few more dies to accommodate different lug sizes.
my problem with this crimper is that 20% of the reviews say it sucks and the other 80% are not professional users.
read the reviews.
if i did not afford a real crimper, i'd just sub out the work.
The little cheap crimpers are ok for light work I have one,I wouldn't attempt 4/0 battery cables with one. There is standard for crimping and the small crimpers 16 to 20 tons don't even get close to the193,000 to 231,000 pounds.You can find that chart on the Tyco Electronic web page,Sean educated me in crimping and the cold weld process on battery cables
Quote from: luvrbus on April 27, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
The little cheap crimpers are ok for light work I have one,I wouldn't attempt 4/0 battery cables with one. There is standard for crimping and the small crimpers 16 to 20 tons don't even get close to the193,000 to 231,000 pounds.You can find that chart on the Tyco Electronic web page,Sean educated me in crimping and the cold weld process on battery cables
I'm certainly no expert on these things, but I've had pretty good results using the hydraulic crimper for 4/0 cable. Maybe not space shuttle quality, but without a doubt better than anything I've been able to do with either a mechanical crimper or a hammer/anvil crimper. Being pretty far from the nearest shop doing cable work that can make cables for me, I've come to rely on my own skills to get things going.
I was not able to find the same numbers on the Tyco site, but I found a chart with the same numbers put out by Molex in a handout on crimp quality. On that chart they were referring to CMA which has something to do with measurement of area, not force. If those numbers are accurate, you're talking about using about 100 tons of force to crimp a cable. To my amateur skill level that seems like space shuttle crimping.
The local welding shop that crimps my 4/0 battery cables does have a 100 ton crimper maybe a over kill but I never had any problems with their cables ,most of mine when I saw the gauge were crimped at 120,000
I have cut the crimps apart & the individual strands were stuck together pretty darn well. Not exactly all fused together, but many strands were.
So far, so good.
Be careful of the online reviews . . . . Many of the authors are idiots - seen a bunch of bad reviews on battery chargers because you had to plug them in !!!!! ::)
BTW, the dies for this crimper are a fixed cross section area, so you must use the correct size wire & lug end - otherwise, you won't get 100% compression.
My guess is that most of the bad reviews didn't use the proper lug end or wire.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 27, 2018, 02:07:43 PM
The local welding shop that crimps my 4/0 battery cables does have a 100 ton crimper maybe a over kill but I never had any problems with their cables ,most of mine when I saw the gauge were crimped at 120,000
At that level of pressure, it would be considered a cold weld. How is that priced? It seems that would be preferable compared to the 10 ton or so hand units, which might do a decent job, but not as good as 60 tons.
I am one of the bad boys. I have used a hammer crimper, and they work well if you know what you are doing. You can fuse the wires together and ten some, like a quarter plus inch up the cable. Which is bad. Or you don't pound enough and the wires aren't fused in the terminal. But it can work well if you know what a proper crimp is. I've got a 12 volt house system, and as far as I know, that's not NEC. But in the NEC, it's the listed terminal in it's listed crimper. For the 12 volts, I'll just swing the sledge.