Hockey bus crashes with semi in Saskatchewan.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hockey-world-mourns-humboldt-broncos-tragedy-150056018.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/hockey-world-mourns-humboldt-broncos-tragedy-150056018.html)
This is bobofthenorth territory, perhaps a better local report?
None of the news discusses the collision details yet...
Epic tragedy.
Sadly coaching on...
Buswarrior
What would you like to know? Too close to home - its hit the whole province hard and it is surprising to me how much I'm feeling affected myself.
The accident happened at a level crossing about 20 miles north of Tisdale where highway 35 between Tisdale & Nipawin crosses 335. The intersection is wide open on 3 sides but there's an old yard SE of the intersection with tall trees all around it. IOW its blind to the south when you approach from the east and blind to the east when you approach from the south. The semi was hauling peat moss from the Carrot River plant - to Saskatoon I assume but that doesn't matter except to the extent that it is a route and the driver would not have likely been driving it for the first time. The bus was on its way north to Nipawin for Game 5 of their playoff round. The intersection was the site of a horrific accident several years ago which almost wiped out a family - 6 crosses on the SE side of the intersection stand in memory of that accident.
You can see from the image from yesterday that it was a clear day and the road looks bare. The intersection has stop signs on 335 on both sides. After the earlier accident they added flashing red lights on top of the stop signs. There's the yard of a long abandoned gas station on the NW corner of the intersection. That's the pavement where the accident debris has largely ended up. I've heard a reporter make excuses for the driver saying that the sun was in his eyes but that's pure BS - the sun doesn't set there until around 8:00 now and the accident happened at 5:00
The two photos I attached pretty well tell the tale. Look up Charlie's Charters in Tisdale - that was a Prevost up until yesterday. The truck on the other hand looks like you could put it back on its feet and drive it home. Hard to believe but that truck driver should rot in jail for the rest of his miserable life.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on April 07, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
What would you like to know?
It appears as tho the truck made the marks on the road.
which are not aimed at the intersected road.
how did the rigs become parallel ?
with the truck beyond the bus ?
Bob I am not familiar with the intersection but from what you said the truck had the stop sign. The truck driver didn't stop and the bus hit the trailer or the truck stopped and pulled out in front of the bus. I would guess the truck didn't stop and the bus hit the trailer and was drug into parallel with the trailer.
I wouldn't assume anything from the positions of the units in the photos. One of the first responders last night said they were using a crane so they aren't likely lying where they landed.
What's puzzling to me is how intact the Pete is. From the bus damage it appears to me that the truck hit somewhere behind the entrance door and sheared the front of the bus off at an angle through the driver compartment. That's hard to believe that it could even happen but that it could happen with the Pete looking as undamaged as it does is unbelievable to me. OTOH I don't think the bus hit the trailers because there'd be exploded peat everywhere if that had happened. So I don't know what happened.
Horrible accident and hard to even begin to visualize what happened from the photos.
Anyone know if the roof was cut off as part of the rescue or if it sheered off in the collision?
Quote from: richard5933 on April 07, 2018, 02:59:42 PM
Horrible accident and hard to even begin to visualize what happened from the photos.
Anyone know if the roof was cut off as part of the rescue or if it sheered off in the collision?
[/color]
that's what i was thinking.
There are curved scrapes on the pavement as well as straight marks, looks like at least one vehicle was going fairly fast and they both spun around in a death spiral. If the truck hit the bus at a 90 degree angle it might have hit it squarely with the front bumper and main frame. The bus framework would not be as beefy as the truck frame. The bus framework is bent back in a long curved arc on the driver's side, so it looks like the truck hit right around the entry door and front axle. I assume the truck driver survived - this will torment him for the rest of his life.
The truck driver walked away. The bus driver obviously didn't survive.
I saw one news report tonight that said that the truck driver was uninjured, interrogated by the police, and released.
Nobody should speculate as to how it happened. We will know in a day or two after the police has completed their investigation.
This hits hard. I drove a Junior Hockey team bus for years in Southern BC and Northern Washington. All mountain and winter driving. Dealing with the transport trucks I think was the hardest thing, because they are under pressure to get somewhere and are pushy.
JC
High speed, high mass crash...
Best wait for the reconstructionists to do their thing.
With International attention, the media will likely tell us when the initial report is available.
Those of us who work this business have a significant knot in our stomachs.
The protecting spirits are in disruption.
Be safe.
Buswarrior
Pretty sure the truck didn't hit the side of the bus head on. There's no damage on that front end. Bumper and fiberglass hood are unscathed.
I bet the truck pulled out in front of them and the bus hit the side of the semi, either near the drivers, or more likely, at the front of the second trailer.
I can't believe the amount of damage to that bus, though! There's 10 feet missing. It's in a pile up next to the truck and the only thing recognizable is one of the wheels.
Leads me to wonder if corrosion may have played a part in the destruction.
I imagine they cut the top off the bus during the rescue operation to gain better access for extrication.
Wow, Just horrific. No words can describe that loss.
Makes you think that each seat section should be a compartment or more thought should go into crash protection design in newer busses.
That being said I think that intersection might be a good spot for a roundabout going forward.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on April 07, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
What would you like to know? Too close to home - its hit the whole province hard and it is surprising to me how much I'm feeling affected myself.
Humboldt is my birth town, and although I am long removed from the region, I have spent the weekend distracted and feeling affected like you, Bob. I was watching the Friday night Blue Jays game when I heard the news and remembered that you live up that way, so it's close to home for you for sure.
A lot of folks have been talking about the Swift Current Broncos bus crash of the '80s and it's great to see some of the survivors like Sheldon Kennedy offering their time and support to the victims and families. But the crash that first came to my mind was the 1990 disaster in a tight bend just East of Golden, B.C. when a truck lost a load of pipe right into a bus carrying a young dance troupe from Calgary That one bothered me like this one and -- as an active trucker at the time -- angered me as the facts came out. Accidents like that should just never happen.
I am trying to reserve any judgement pending the investigation but I guess it's human nature to want information and understand what happened. Your description of the intersection and some of what is known locally is very helpful, Bob.
For the grieving families and survivors, I wish there were words. All I have are these thoughts. And prayers. It's just so very sad. I hope they can find ways to heal. My 15-year-old boards a charter bus a week from today for a band trip to Edmonton on the scary QE2 (not the road, the scary drivers).
Now it's time to go watch the vigil from Humboldt.
[edited typo]
What I keep coming back to is the complete destruction of the bus. It looks worse than it really was because they clearly cut the roof off but still... I thought that a bus was some kind of impregnable cocoon. In fact when I first heard how many deaths there were I assumed it must have been a school bus. The Pete looks like you could put it on its feet and drive it home. And its not like a load of peat moss is anything substantial either - more or less pallets with plastic bags full of compressed air. Hard to believe.
One thing I noticed in the pictures is the twisted frame on the tractor when you visually try to line up the steering axle with the drives. Sure, there's going to be a lot of static torque from the overturned trailers, but it seems to me that much twist had to come from the force of the collision itself. I wonder if the tractor lifted right over the front axle of the bus, as buswarrior noted, at high speed, high mass.
[Edit: Trying so hard not to speculate. Anyone suggesting we wait for the official report is correct, of course.]
This is so sad. I am still trying to make my mind big enough to comprehend the loss and horror to survivors, families, friends, school, and community affected by this tragedy. A terrible thing with long-lasting impacts.
There is a life and a world of its own on the team bus. Many, many hours are spent on the bus in a season. Some games are 1 hour away, some are 8 hours away. On a road trip, you can easily drive 1000-1500 miles for the week end. The kids do home work, sleep, chat, listen to music, play cards, play video games, watch movies on the overhead monitors. Friendships are forged on the bus. Victories are celebrated with 2 pulls on the air horn as you leave the arena parking lot. The mood is joyous for the first hour as everybody eats their slice of pizza, with the music playing loud on the bus stereo. Congrats for good plays and good saves go around, and good fights are recounted too. Silence accompanies the pizza after a loss... There is usually 2 or 3 adults on the bus: the head coach and assistant, the trainer, and 1 or 2 other helpers. The older more senior players would sit at the back, the rookies more near the front. And the driver of course, me for many years for the Columbia Valley Rockies Junior hockey team out of Invermere BC, driving them all over BC and WA. The driver becomes part of the team as you can imagine. There are rules to enforce on the bus, procedures and routines such as the boys loading their own bags underneath, and closing the bay doors properly, pee only in the can, no number 2, clean out the garbage when we get back home, etc, etc. You really get attached to those kids over the season. There are nights on the way home after a game far away when everybody is sleeping, except one kid would come up and sit beside me and talk about life for a while to keep me awake. And at times you sit on the highway idling waiting for a wreck to be cleared, or an avalanche to be cleaned up. I could go on about the winter driving but there is no point, it can get challenging at times, but that part stays invisible to the team for the most part, as it should be.
And that warm, cosy, safe cocoon of life on the bus abruptly came crashing to an end for the Broncos a couple of nights ago...
I am having a hard time coping with this now...
JC
My condolences to all involved. I cannot imagine the heartache.
That is a very touching writeup, JC. As soon as I read about the wreck, I thought about you. There are no words to express how tragic this is.
Thank you for sharing those warm and first-hand experiences from the team bus, JC. Everywhere I go and everyone I talk to seems to be affected in some profound way. Know that you are not alone and I hope you can find your way through this tragedy, as we all must.
For everybody that feels they want to help the team and their loved ones, there is a gofundme campaign:
https://ca.gofundme.com/funds-for-humboldt-broncos (https://ca.gofundme.com/funds-for-humboldt-broncos)
Quote from: bobofthenorth on April 08, 2018, 07:14:53 PM
What I keep coming back to is the complete destruction of the bus. It looks worse than it really was because they clearly cut the roof off but still...
The local news reports stated that the roof actually came off during the accident. There was one player from Winnipeg aboard that survived, injured but alive. He was actually ejected from the bus when the roof came off, as were several others. I suspect some of their injuries were due to this fact. While it is impossible to tell if injuries or the death toll would be less if the roof remained attached, it can only be stated that some injuries were as a direct result from the roof separation.
My brother-in-law was the bus driver for the Brandon Wheat Kings for several years and like JC, this event touched him deeply as it has for people around the world.
Quote from: Jim Eh. on April 10, 2018, 06:45:30 AM
....this event touched him deeply as it has for people around the world.
I'm sure that's true, and indeed this story appeared in UK news bulletins on the day it happened. By comparison the story of the 24 Indian schoolchildren who were killed in a bus crash yesterday has received almost no coverage
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-43712517 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-43712517)
Jeremy
Bus crashes in third world countries are common enough that they just don't get all that much news coverage.
Local news just interviewed Brian Starkell, Nipawin's Fire Chief. Initially he said that the bus roof was cut off in the accident but then later in the interview he said they brought in a crane from Tisdale to lift the roof off. I'm not sure exactly what that means but someone pointed out on another thread that hitting a highboy trailer at the right angle could slice a bus along the window line.
The trucking company has been identified locally as Adesh Deol Trucking Ltd. of Calgary. Evidently its a relatively new entity with 2 trucks. One truck now I guess. Alberta has pulled the company's permits pending the outcome of the RCMP investigation. One of my sons has a dozen trucks hauling dangerous goods out of Medicine Hat. I sent him a text this afternoon reminding him that the only thing standing between him and jail time for the bonehead actions of his drivers is paper properly filed.
Many of us identify with this situation because we have spent time on the road, have seen accidents, and have had close calls. In my case, I have driven tractor-trailers in the US and Canada, and charter buses with all kinds of groups, including sports teams (yes, the teams are in a cozy cocoon on a bus). I think we all want to know what happened, and what fatal mistakes occurred. I personally think that in some respects, driving in more sparsely settled areas can be more dangerous than in urban areas because we drop our guard and get complacent. Crossing the big open areas of Canada and the Western US can be mind numbing and boring. We don't know what happened yet, and what the experience levels of the drivers were, but one or both of them made a mistake, in all likelihood. If they do a detailed analysis like in aircraft crashes, we may find out what occurred so that we can all learn from this horrible crash. UPDATE: The latest news indicates that the truck should have stopped at a stop sign, and the bus had the right-of-way.
I am reading this morning that the driver had 2 weeks of training, and had been driving on his own for 2 weeks prior to the accident.
After driving buses and trucks all my life, I drive more cautiously and defensively now than ever, because of the experience. And I don't mean slow, I mean I come to a complete stop at a stop sign if the visibility isn't good. I know it is a PIA to do with a loaded semi, and a rolling stop hoping nobody is coming is a lot easier. But that rookie mistake that most of us have done and got away with, can become deadly in an instant... Too easy to assume nobody is coming if you haven't seen a vehicle in the last 20 minutes...
JC
To be clear, the truck driver is the one who had a few weeks only of time with the company. Reports don't say how long he'd possibly been licensed or driving for other companies. But from what I understand getting a Class 1 license in Alberta could be done in as little as 2 weeks.
I just saw a picture of the supposed semi tractor on its wheels in a compound. There is NO WAY that the semi t-boned the bus as has been reported in the papers. The hood is totally intact. Someone on this thread suggested, correctly I think, that the bus t-boned the semi.
So having said that the ONLY 2 options (in my opinion) are that either the semi blew the stop sign OR the semi stopped at the stop sign and then proceeded when unsafe. I lived in Sask and drove on those roads. Lots of times there MIGHT be one car go by in 15 minutes. There is a reason WHY the stop sing is accompanies by a flashing red light. The apparent force of the impact would lead me to believe the semi blew the stop sign. Had the semi stopped and then proceeded without looking the bus driver would probably have seen it inching out (the semi was fully loaded)and at least been prepared to take evasive action. That, I think, is the normal response from most drivers, or buses or other vehicles.
We all have a "duty of care" while driving, privately or commercially.
JC
Sadly, another fatality from this crash:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/brons-humboldt-broncos-team-bus-crash-1.4615462 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/brons-humboldt-broncos-team-bus-crash-1.4615462)
Just as I was reading this article, my 17 year old daughter came in the front door and I just lost it. She was great and gave me a big hug! As a Humboldt-born parent, former (but still sometimes) trucker, recreational busnut, former Little League coach and Canadian, I guess, this accident has hit me way harder and close to home than I could have imagined. One of my boys has a classmate who lost a cousin. A player from nearby Airdrie probably will never walk again. So tragic and senseless...
For the speculators, CBC published a image with labels that lay out the scene:
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4613090.1523382106!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/original_1180/crash-graphic.png?imwidth=900)
The bus driver will never be charged; he did not survive. But he clearly had the right of way and it's hard to see how the trucker was not the cause of this disaster. But I'm trying hard -- really really hard -- not to speculate.
Just very sad and a bit angry, I guess.
Waiting patiently for the RCMP to tell us all, something, anything?
National Post writer Christie Blatchford is losing patience on our behalf, with the Saskatchewan authorities, and the piss poor public relations.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-people-of-humboldt-deserve-answers-not-respectful-silence-about-the-crash (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-people-of-humboldt-deserve-answers-not-respectful-silence-about-the-crash)
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
From that pic, the only thing that is throwing me is I would have thought the wreckage would have ended up where the parked cars are instead of the road on the left. That trucker must not have even slowed down at all.
CTV interviewed the kid from Airdrie who is paralyzed this morning. The woman doing the interview asked him what he remembered from that night. He said he was texting his girlfriend, heard the bus driver say "Oh my god", looked up and saw a truck in front of them. I'll resist the temptation to speculate but I agree with Christie Blatchford - the RCMP could be a lot more forthcoming. Pretending to be thorough by taking a long time may not be necessary in this case. My understanding is they also have an uninjured eye witness - the woman who phoned in the 911 call whose car was actually hit by shrapnel from the accident.
The somewhat involuntary reactions that drivers make in the last seconds influence the debris field.
It is very common in cases like this to swerve in the same direction as the intruding vehicle/cyclist/pedestrian is moving in.
Human reactions are designed for walking speed. We don't do well beyond that.
I expect the report to be chillingly unremarkable, the human beings involved having made routine errors and routine reactions, like most every other cross roads unintended meeting.
And that is what rocks so many worlds, the bare-assed simplicity of it.
Be safe,
Buswarrior
I hope that some simple inexpensive responses (note I didn't say solutions) will result from this tragedy:
1. Dashcams should be mandatory in every commercial vehicle. (Heck, why don't cars have them from the factory now? They're filled up with other useless distractions, so a dashcam would be peanuts to the car makers.) They're the next best thing to a flight recorder and cockpit voice recorder.
2. All mandatory stops should have serious speed bumps. I don't mean some ineffectual little ripple or bumplet, but something more like a Mexican tope that will cause damage if you drive over it at anything more than walking speed.
3. At known accident blackspots, why, oh why, are cameras not installed? I personally wouldn't be against having cameras at every intersection, but that's another story.
John
I don't disagree with any of that but simply cutting down those trees would probably solve it.
A properly designed roundabout. Something like this https://www.google.com/search?q=roundabout&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CcPRBHPWCLUQIjjOHO9kEwIzdH_1g6ldo_1otP0CAFbzrLtB0-p_1z1JQ4zIMUjgRbUhL-BGYSqyNPIZi0KSV8Go33_1kSoSCc4c72QTAjN0EZvxPGWiqgH4KhIJf-DqV2j-i08Rvkgq6W0hwJwqEgnQIAVvOsu0HREttWaPIwQghioSCT6n_1PUlDjMgEQlO5FFfBBYKKhIJxSOBFtSEv4EREpFHBrX4gQoqEgkZhKrI08hmLREMMTNeH7PHuyoSCQpJXwajff-REeSIN9Fw7MQT&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi79YHdpLXaAhVqrVQKHRy1AFUQ9C96BAgAEBs&biw=1368&bih=925&dpr=1#imgrc=fpLYu0X2U76xYM: (https://www.google.com/search?q=roundabout&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CcPRBHPWCLUQIjjOHO9kEwIzdH_1g6ldo_1otP0CAFbzrLtB0-p_1z1JQ4zIMUjgRbUhL-BGYSqyNPIZi0KSV8Go33_1kSoSCc4c72QTAjN0EZvxPGWiqgH4KhIJf-DqV2j-i08Rvkgq6W0hwJwqEgnQIAVvOsu0HREttWaPIwQghioSCT6n_1PUlDjMgEQlO5FFfBBYKKhIJxSOBFtSEv4EREpFHBrX4gQoqEgkZhKrI08hmLREMMTNeH7PHuyoSCQpJXwajff-REeSIN9Fw7MQT&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi79YHdpLXaAhVqrVQKHRy1AFUQ9C96BAgAEBs&biw=1368&bih=925&dpr=1#imgrc=fpLYu0X2U76xYM:)
"the only thing that is throwing me is I would have thought the wreckage would have ended up where the parked cars are instead of the road on the left."
A fully loaded bus doesn't weigh nearly what a loaded transport truck weighs, so the impact would not deflect as much as one might think.
An interview of truck company's owner really pissed me off. He didn't know what he was gonna do. His trucks are both off the road.
Well, boo friggin' hoo.
Our condolences to all those involved.
In my view, there is no way the fully-loaded truck could have accelerated from a full stop quickly enough that the bus driver 1) would not have seen him; and 2) have had time to react with more than "Oh my God" to avoid a collision. (To be fair, I believe I read that the Airdrie boy said he felt braking, but evidently that natural reaction must have been too little, too late). Given a few or several more seconds, he might have been able to stop or divert to the left, even honk the air horn, anything else. I think the trucker somehow missed the stop sign -- or braked too late -- and entered the view field much too fast for any other result. IMHO, of course.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was texting or on some sort of computer. It's hard for me to believe that he couldn't see the flashing red light or if he did see it say...ahh who cares there's probably no one coming.
I agree with the previous poster, I think he was going full speed through the flashing red light.
Looking at Lydon's aerial view photo it is leads me to deduce the Bus hitting at (or near) the truck drives causing the front end shear and spinning the bus so they both end up heading west with some forward momentum. The tractor trailer with way more tires and weight would resist deflection more than the bus until the back end of the bus came along side the trailers. This in turn caused the trailers to swerve to the right with the bus following them, possibly tilting enough for the elevated trailers to saw through the lower portion of the window posts along the passenger side of the bus. I am certainly no analyst but to me this would explain the positioning of the vehicles and the loss of the roof of the bus.
I fail to see the trees as a reason or excuse.
Aerial photo doesn't do the sight line justice.
Zero view through that quadrant, so neither driver, attentive or not, would see misadventure developing.
Suddenly,from behind the trees, pop goes the weasel.
The property owner will be exposed to some liability in this... especially with there having been a previous multiple fatality of similar circumstance.
Sadly.
Buswarrior
Since there is a STOP sign, and traffic rules say to proceed ONLY when safe to do so, the truck driver clearly did NOT proceed when safe, doesn't matter if he stopped or not. Truck drivers fault, 100%. Yes, I agree the trees are in a bad location, and if they weren't there, the outcome may have been drastically different. The previous collision at this corner which claimed several lives about 20 years ago SHOULD have addressed the tree situation, rather than put an oversize, flashing STOP sign.
Too bad it takes a catastrophe like this for things to happen.
I can see changes on the horizon for newly minted "professional truck drivers". Something along the lines of an apprenticeship program.
How many times do you see people failing to stop at the sign, cars, motor bikes, push bikes, RV, trucks, taxis etc people walking against the don't walk
It's simple STOP means STOP and the reason is its a dangerous intersection what
don't people understand about a 4 letter self explanatory word maybe for the idiots they should add LOOK or DIE With a $1000.00 fine
What price do you put on a tragedy like this
There are accidents and then there is Murder
I feel for all the family's or those that were on the bus and the people who have to clean up the aftermath after these events, not a job I would like to live with the trauma on a daily occorance
Ontario recently started mandatory big truck training.
MELT
https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants (https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants)
The trucking associations support it being country wide.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on April 13, 2018, 12:08:05 PM
Ontario recently started mandatory big truck training.
MELT
https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants (https://www.ontario.ca/page/new-mandatory-training-class-drivers-licence-applicants)
The trucking associations support it being country wide.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
This is a good thing and I hope it spreads to the other provinces. When I started out in the '70s, I got my class 1 through a community college. The old timers teased me about being a "text book trucker" but I found work with a safety conscience national carrier that had a great training program. No one without significant road experience -- plus check trips with supervisors -- would ever be turned loose running single.
In Alberta, many new drivers go to a training school just to get their Class 1 and air brake certificates but it is not required. As long as you can pass the medical, written and road tests, plus the air brake practical test, you are reclassified. Same as the '70s. And although there are plenty of very professional, experienced and safe drivers out there -- probably most -- I think there seems to be all too many these days that are a disaster waiting to happen.
As it relates to the current thread, I was reading that the truck owner stated his driver had 2 weeks training and 2 weeks experience. That loaded B-train had to be somewhere close to 120,000 lbs. Scary and tragic.
We have to have held a car licence first then sit a driving/question test for a rigged licence of the class you need light, medium, heavy class than have to have a driving history for a set time to then get a HC heavy combination (truck trailer) then again another driving history for that truck for a set time to up the class to a B Double and then a set time to road trains 3+ 40ft trailers on out back roads including gravel track/roads all the time on all truck licences filling in a goverment driving log book with 0 blood alcohol with random tests for drugs and each axel wight checks, roadworthy tests some are fixed centres and others are mobile setups
We have to deal with state police, state heavy transport officers and federal group regulation operations
$1800.00 for a log book infringement and it has to be with you at all times and upto date from your last stop
We are regulated in the hevey licence class in Australia including yearly roadworthy/safety checks even for MH
Governments are damned if they do, and damned if they don't when it comes to releasing data on major accident investigations. Maybe they release information on day one of the investigation that the truck driver is 100% at fault. What happens when six months later they find the truck driver was not at fault? There are reasons government agencies don't like to release information until all the data is in. I know that in today's instant news world everyone wants answers in minutes, not days or weeks.
Government agencies released all kinds of information in the early days after 9/11 that was simply incorrect. The reported death toll in the first day or two was about twice what the final death toll was. They would have been better saying they don't know instead of guessing at things.
You're right Brian - sometimes we just need to be patient.
However sometimes the truth is so self evident that only a bureaucrat could take over a month to recognize it.
Time will tell which is the case but I'll put money on it if anyone is interested.
You know ,I find it interesting that no one has mentioned Equipment failure as a possible cause.If I was a betting man ,I would say that is why the authority's are slow to furnish info on this mishap .I will bet they are going through this wreckage with a magnifying glass Normally with brakes on all the wheels working these trucks will stop well ,but as any of us bus owners or anyone that has been around trucks will testify ,any part on these things are subject to fail at a moments notice.I do know from past experience that the tractors are looked after a lot better than the trailers are .
Quote from: bigred on April 15, 2018, 08:41:57 AM
You know ,I find it interesting that no one has mentioned Equipment failure as a possible cause.If I was a betting man ,I would say that is why the authority's are slow to furnish info on this mishap .I will bet they are going through this wreckage with a magnifying glass Normally with brakes on all the wheels working these trucks will stop well ,but as any of us bus owners or anyone that has been around trucks will testify ,any part on these things are subject to fail at a moments notice.I do know from past experience that the tractors are looked after a lot better than the trailers are .
or...excessive speed aka contributory negligence.
my nickle says the insurance industry is thick in this.
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 15, 2018, 11:00:49 AM
or...excessive speed aka contributory negligence.
my nickle says the insurance industry is thick in this.
No doubt the insurer for the trucker is sweating the details, but I fail to see how they will get out of the tremendous liability they have. The driver should be worried about possible criminal charges if he blew the stop sign without slowing down at all.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 15, 2018, 11:08:26 AM
No doubt the insurer for the trucker is sweating the details, but I fail to see how they will get out of the tremendous liability they have. The driver should be worried about possible criminal charges if he blew the stop sign without slowing down at all.
agreed.
imo. they both/all are.
back in the 60's if you played sports your parents were obligated to carry an insurance policy in the event of injury/incident too.
The excuse that the trees were blocking the line of sight is a BS distraction from the real cause.
If the trees are found at fault, then it follows that ANYTHING that blocks the line of sight at any intersection must be removed - not practical, realistic, or productive. I mean, really? They didn't grow overnight !!!
Sure. blaming the trees is easy & allows everyone to avoid personal responsibility, but does not address the real problem.
Which is - Driver inattention.
Obnoxious speed bumps will abuse everyone & their equipment - and punish the good drivers.
If a flashing red light AND a STOP sign wasn't enough, then maybe rumble strips would be a more tactile reminder to inattentive drivers of an impending stop sign.
From what I've read about this, it is obvious to me that the truck ran the stop sign, and the bus is obviously the unfortunate victim.
What we don't know is why the truck ran the stop sign.
As for the truck driver/ trucking company, I'm sure the temptation to blame equipment failure ( or anything else beyond their control ) would be overpowering. I can't imagine the mental burden of having everyone know it was a direct result of my actions that caused so much suffering & loss.
Collision investigation is a separate step from assigning blame. All of the contributing factors need to be considered. This isn't the wild west, Judge Dredd is a movie...
It will be reported that the tree line is an important factor to answering why the bus driver wasn't successful in attempts to miss the truck. We have all had a vehicle come out in front of us, but we saw it coming in time.
The trucking company insurer is likely to just write the cheque for the value of their policy and walk away. What else is there for them to do? How was a 2 truck operation able to afford to insure a new driver, if indeed, it turns out that he was? I've only seen reports that he was in the employ of that company for about a month, nothing more about the truck driver than that?
How much liability insurance do each of us carry? If it was a busnut that came out in front of the hockey team...
oh dear...
buswarrior
Anyone familiar with that intersection enough to know if the usual Saskatchewan oncoming stop sign rumble strips are present?
From what I understand, the investigation is pretty far reaching. It will encompass more than just the people directly involved in the accident. Most all facets of the transport industry may come under scrutiny. You can be sure the authorities are being very careful and thorough on such a high profile case as this one. They have already made one blunder. It won't be over in a week of two.
Quote from: buswarrior on April 15, 2018, 01:45:51 PM
. . . . All of the contributing factors need to be considered. . . . .
It will be reported that the tree line is an important factor to answering why the bus driver wasn't successful in attempts to miss the truck. We have all had a vehicle come out in front of us, but we saw it coming in time.
. . . .
buswarrior
Trying to avoid a collision isn't always free of negative consequences - once you leave your lane, you may be liable for any & all damages. . . . .
Proper priorities need to be placed on all contributing factors. I am not a fan of sensationalizing subordinate elements. To do so creates more bureaucratic red tape that often interferes with more effective solutions.
While trees can be cut down to provide line of sight - however if this is required, where will that lead? Removing hill sides? Removing buildings/ houses? Closing roads due to blind intersections? Crazier things have happened. . . . All in an effort to eliminate personal responsibility.
Hopefully the investigation will provide good information that will lead to improvements so all of the loss & suffering will not be in vain.
I fail to see how any fault could be laid on the bus driver. The bus had the right of way.
I had a crazy driver pull over on the shoulder of a two lane highway once and then decide to make a U turn from the shoulder right in front of me. I was lucky there was a road there and I made a left hand turn at 55 MPH to avoid plowing into the SUV. It was good fortune I was driving a small hatchback that day. (Also owned a pickup at the time.) If I had been driving my bus there would have been a crash as there is no way I could make that turn in my bus.