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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: richard5933 on March 27, 2018, 04:14:54 PM

Title: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on March 27, 2018, 04:14:54 PM
I'm installing a new battery box vent on my 4108. Battery box is in the rear driver side bay.

I need to drill a 2-3/8" hole through the floor of the bay for the exhaust.

I've checked under the intended location. Nothing there.

My concern is what might be hidden inside the floor of the bay. I'm guessing nothing, but I thought it best to ask in case someone knows of something that GM ran between the layers of the belly of the bus.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on March 27, 2018, 05:31:47 PM
I would suggest 2 things....  1. drill a small hole thru the upper layer and us a boroscope to look inside.  2. Drill your hole towards the outside wall as much as possible. If they ran anything thru the bottom of the bay it is probably running down the centerline of the bus.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: pabusnut on March 27, 2018, 06:31:46 PM
Richard,

If your 4108 bays are like my 4905, which I am 98% sure they are---you will hit nothing.

My 4905 came with a retractable tag axle in the 3rd bay behind bay doors so I had to fabricate a floor there when I removed the tag(actually a bogie).  The structure is just corrugated aluminum decking that is in a 1-1/4" channel front and back, with rivets holding the tops and bottoms of the flats on the corrugation. 

All the piping and wiring runs through the channel in the bay ceiling.

Steve
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: chessie4905 on March 27, 2018, 07:09:51 PM
Thats right. Till you get through the heavy corrugation, the hole will be about 2 1/2 deep till you are totally through. Try to center guide bit to go through centered between corrugations, otherwise hole cutter might catch unevenly. Or run center guide bit through center of one corrugation. Second option would be best of two choices, as guide bit would still provide centering clear the way through. Hang onto that drill or it may be a**hole and elbows. Since it is a custom conversion, double checkfor any wiring ot tubing entering or exiting in that area. Who knows what they did. I know GM didn't run anything there. When done, line the hole with some kind of pipe to keep fumes from following inside of channel.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: TomC on March 28, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
Use AGM battery and you don't need a vent hole.
Title: Re: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on March 28, 2018, 08:49:17 AM
Quote from: TomC on March 28, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
Use AGM battery and you don't need a vent hole.
Looked into the AGM. Need more batteries to get the same capacity, especially, as well as more money. Just wasn't in the budget. With the Trojan Hydrolink it's not difficult to keep battery bank topped off, and the vent is on an automatic voltage controlled switch to only come on when charging.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: jcussen on March 28, 2018, 10:25:31 AM
AGM's are a little more, but are generally better for deep discharges if using as your house batteries. The biggest wet cell 8d I have seen is 225 amp/hrs, but you can buy Lifeline AGM 8d"s, [same physical size] that are good for 255 amp/hrs.
Title: Re: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: eagle19952 on March 28, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on March 28, 2018, 08:49:17 AM
Looked into the AGM. Need more batteries to get the same capacity, especially, as well as more money. Just wasn't in the budget. With the Trojan Hydrolink it's not difficult to keep battery bank topped off, and the vent is on an automatic voltage controlled switch to only come on when charging.

never ever trust an auto fill.
never ever trust an auto vent
never ever put a device that has the potential to ignite in an explosive atmoshere.
i built a few aircraft refuelers
and maintained more.
there are regs for these standards.
boat bilges come to mind.
DEKA sells AGM blems.
get to know your distributor
were i you i'd rethink.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: buswarrior on March 28, 2018, 02:23:21 PM
Yes, please use an ignition-proof marine bilge pump or similar for your hydrogen gas exhaust.

Sparky cheapy fan go boom.

Some of that marine stuff is expensive for a good reason...!

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on March 28, 2018, 03:25:43 PM
Not my first trip to the rodeo hooking up a battery box. While I understand that AGM would be more ideal, for now I'm going with the flooded-cell L16 batteries.

The vent being used is: http://zephyrvent.com/ (http://zephyrvent.com/)

It's to be located outside the battery box, as will all its wiring. There are air intake vents at the bottom of the box, and the powered vent at the top.

The lid of the battery box will be acrylic so the physical condition can be monitored easily. The Hydrolink will fill the batteries easily, and it included an indicator to let me know that the water actually makes it to the cells. I used this system on our last coach and it worked well. I did open the battery covers periodically to confirm proper function.

I'll post photos when the battery setup is complete.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: buswarrior on March 28, 2018, 06:46:25 PM
That's a lovely battery venting solution!

What other secrets are you keeping from the busnuts????

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on March 28, 2018, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: buswarrior on March 28, 2018, 06:46:25 PM
That's a lovely battery venting solution!

What other secrets are you keeping from the busnuts????

happy coaching!
buswarrior

You'll have to wait for the movie...
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: TomC on March 29, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
On my bus, I have 2-8D AGM Lifeline batteries (510amp/hrs). My first set went 7 years (they have 5 years warranty). I can tell you in that 7 years I did virtually nothing to the batteries-was as though they weren't even there-not even having to clean the terminals once. I now have my second set that have been in for 2 years and yet to do anything to them.
On my truck, I am going to use 4-L16 AGM Lifeline batteries for a total of 800amp/hrs @ 12v. Most starting batteries are sealed too now. Dealing with watering batteries, hydrogen out gassing, cleaning terminals, venting properly is just not my cup of tea when trying to be a tourist. Spend the extra money, you won't be disappointed. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: chessie4905 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:49 PM
Unless they go into one of those thermal runaway meltdowns.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: eagle19952 on March 29, 2018, 09:39:50 PM
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:49 PM
Unless they go into one of those thermal runaway meltdowns.

not if they aren't stuffed in the bowels of the bus and have adequate space and seperaytion...an inch or two is fine.

a trade off i am willing to make.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: sledhead on March 30, 2018, 04:42:45 AM
I have used this style drill bit to drill through the floor and not hit the radiant heat line that was right there

worked for me

https://www.amazon.com/MLCS-9245H-3-Inch-Diameter-Forstner/dp/B00EPBVKZO/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G9X2YN8YMEVFCWPARG7K (https://www.amazon.com/MLCS-9245H-3-Inch-Diameter-Forstner/dp/B00EPBVKZO/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G9X2YN8YMEVFCWPARG7K)

dave
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on March 30, 2018, 05:00:49 AM
Quote from: eagle19952 on March 29, 2018, 09:39:50 PMnot if they aren't stuffed in the bowels of the bus and have adequate space and seperaytion...an inch or two is fine.

a trade off i am willing to make. 

       Yeah, I like AGMs, too.  And people talk about the failures -- don't lead-acid flooded batts fail????
Title: Re: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on March 30, 2018, 05:16:05 AM
Quote from: sledhead on March 30, 2018, 04:42:45 AM
I have used this style drill bit to drill through the floor and not hit the radiant heat line that was right there

worked for me

https://www.amazon.com/MLCS-9245H-3-Inch-Diameter-Forstner/dp/B00EPBVKZO/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G9X2YN8YMEVFCWPARG7K (https://www.amazon.com/MLCS-9245H-3-Inch-Diameter-Forstner/dp/B00EPBVKZO/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_469_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G9X2YN8YMEVFCWPARG7K)

dave
That would work to get through the plywood upper layer, but in my experience they don't do so well going through aluminum. And I have two layers of that to get through.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: buswarrior on March 30, 2018, 06:03:08 AM
lubricate that hole saw as you drill, or buy a bunch of 'em!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: chessie4905 on March 30, 2018, 10:45:52 AM
He's cutting wood and aluminum, no lubricant needed. After you cut through the plywood, youll need to remove plugs before continuing.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: Lee Bradley on March 30, 2018, 02:20:10 PM
Buy a can of this, or similar, and use it. Your drill and hole saw will last much longer and it will make the job easier.


http://www.tacomascrew.com/Products/Cutting-Fluids/Relton-PNT-A9-A-9-Aluminum-Cutting-Fluid?gclid=CjwKCAjwwPfVBRBiEiwAdkM0HWajAU2MZffUIut9063s4jg8iB_hmw3Ahrqu8B2H2fH8jul2erjKfhoCnvMQAvD_BwE (http://www.tacomascrew.com/Products/Cutting-Fluids/Relton-PNT-A9-A-9-Aluminum-Cutting-Fluid?gclid=CjwKCAjwwPfVBRBiEiwAdkM0HWajAU2MZffUIut9063s4jg8iB_hmw3Ahrqu8B2H2fH8jul2erjKfhoCnvMQAvD_BwE)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: chessie4905 on March 30, 2018, 03:08:36 PM
Might be useful if drilling multiple holes. However, probably only ever going to make one hole ever. (Ok,maybe two)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on April 05, 2018, 08:33:10 AM
We have a hole!

It's in the right spot, nothing is spraying up on me, and no electrical sparks are flying. I'll consider this a success. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/e08c2f5f47896a6894ea4f2aa7dd8880.jpg)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on April 08, 2018, 10:08:15 AM
Almost there... (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/ac6e7a33cc5907ee4c6dbfdcc6647002.jpg)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: pabusnut on April 08, 2018, 10:47:15 AM
Richard,

Don't forget to put a piece of fine screen material on the end of that vent to keep the creepy, crawley things out of the bay.
Let's just say it is amazing what can make it through such small spaces!

Steve
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on April 08, 2018, 11:28:17 AM
Thanks Steve. I did almost forget that little piece - got it put in there just at the last moment.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: Dave5Cs on April 08, 2018, 01:15:36 PM
Just saying Forester bits are for Wood, Bi-Metal hole saws are for Metal, aluminum and wood. Cut much better. ;D

https://www.amazon.com/LENOX-Tools-Bi-Metal-Arbored-Technology/dp/B004YK5PBQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1523218295&sr=8-5&keywords=3+inch+metal+hole+saw&dpID=41YjrWa27ZL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch (https://www.amazon.com/LENOX-Tools-Bi-Metal-Arbored-Technology/dp/B004YK5PBQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1523218295&sr=8-5&keywords=3+inch+metal+hole+saw&dpID=41YjrWa27ZL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on April 08, 2018, 02:50:56 PM
That's actually the exact type of hole saw that I used. I was able to locate the hole where the corrugation was at the thin point, so I only had to drill through the plywood interior bay floor and then the aluminum bay floor. The aluminum was thick (two layers), but because the two layers were pressed together the bit didn't have any problem going through.

The battery box components are made out of 1/2" Foam PVC and 1/8"x3/4"x3/4" aluminum angle. The hole saw actually had a more difficult time drilling the hole in the Foam PVC than the floor of the bay. Seems like the heat of the cutting action caused the PVC to gum up a little and bind. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the lid of the box made from clear acrylic like I planned, as it was too difficult to get hardware mounted to it without cracking since all the mounting points were near the edge.

All in all, it wasn't that difficult and I'm really pleased with the way the box came out.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: richard5933 on April 11, 2018, 10:48:23 AM
Exhaust and battery box are now installed. The digital display is the controller for the exhaust fan so it only runs when charging. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180411/2d98597c4846296a7c758a29b599cfa2.jpg)
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: chessie4905 on April 11, 2018, 12:09:05 PM
Nice, but I hope that fan motor doesn't have brushes. The spark the brushes produce could ignite the hydrogen gas generated while charging.
Title: Re: Got to drill big hole... What might I hit?
Post by: buswarrior on April 11, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on March 28, 2018, 03:25:43 PM

The vent being used is: http://zephyrvent.com/ (http://zephyrvent.com/)


Back there, covered it already, A spark protected bilge pump, excellent choice.

happy coaching!
buswarrior