I had the wheel seals, bearings and races on the rear drivers side of the bus changed out in my 1967 Eagle at the El Paso Frieghtliner dealer last November. When I was in Quartzsite last month I noticed that one of my studs on the wheel they worked on was broken and my hub cap was missing. They had a young kid working on this and I was concerned that he may be not doing everything exactly correctly and it appears that my intuition was correct.
I called them and they said I can take my bus to a local Freightliner dealer here in southern California and they will take pictures and will have to send them back to the Freightliner dealer in El Paso to have them authorize any work. It is like one Frieghtliner dealer does not trust the other one.
This could mean that I have to take my bus to them twice, once to have them take photos (who knows why) and another day to have the work done after they authorize it. Is this normal? This seems like a lot of extra work to get warranty work done when they had a mechanic do a job that was not qualified to do the work correctly the first time.
Also, has anyone had any experience with the Freighliner dealer in Fontana, CA? This is the closest dealer to me and they said only a Freighliner dealer can do this re-work.
I assume that means they over torqued the nuts which makes everything they touched suspect to my mind. At the very least I'd want all the studs changed and I'd want to stand there and watch them do it. They won't like that. Keep a close eye on that hub temperature. If they messed up the bearing install you'll have worse problems than just a busted stud.
Im so scared dealing with mechanics especially bc i know very little. Luckily i found a great diesel bus mechanic in town. He only serviced it once so far but i was very impressed.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on February 13, 2018, 04:21:05 PM
I assume that means they over torqued the nuts which makes everything they touched suspect to my mind. At the very least I'd want all the studs changed and I'd want to stand there and watch them do it. They won't like that. Keep a close eye on that hub temperature. If they messed up the bearing install you'll have worse problems than just a busted stud.
I agree Bob. I mentioned this to them to have all of the studs replaced just in case. We will see if they will agree to do this as it is still up in the air. They will not agree to anything until I take it in for inspection.
Time marches on and stuff. What we could easily do OURSELVES with the right tools years ago is not possible today. At this point in our lives we MUST give trust to somebody. Sometimes lots of somebodies.
Used to be that you could watch over the shoulder of the old guy doing your wheel work and you could also ask questions along the way. A good old coot will gladly answer and tell you why it is done the way it is done.
Those days of knowledgeable logging truck based heavy truck shops are long gone. Nowadays we must stay in the customer lounge and sneaking onto the floor is not allowed. What can we do today about this?
Probably nothing. No accountability today. If somebody screws up work he will NOT come clean. Why should he? He is not going to be caught and called out. Having a trusted home base shop might be an answer.
Might not be either. :(
They will replace 3 studs 1 above and 1 below the broken stud per DOT I doubt you get all 10 replaced though
Unfortunately, the damage to the studs could be attributed to any time in the life of those studs not necessarily the most recent job.
Real or imagined, somebody else may have stretched 'em long ago.
Regardless of who pays, closely inspect the rest for evidence of over-torque - stretched necks, threads leaned over.
Hiring in a mobile mechanic gets you someone you can watch and talk to.
Decades of our educational system bad mouthing the trades, streaming the worst into them, is coming home to roost.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Just watch Gary if they need to hammer the rest of the nuts off with a impact gun they are stretched you should be able to screw the nuts off by hand once broken loose
Quote from: luvrbus on February 13, 2018, 06:45:19 PM
Just watch Gary if they need to hammer the rest of the nuts off with a impact gun they are stretched you should be able to screw the nuts off by hand once broken loose
Thanks for the tip Cliff. I plan to watch them every minute. Should I ask them to remove them with a Torque Wrench to see how tightly they are torqued and record it for evidence?
pitch gauge...tells pretty much all.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XK7_xIRbSUw/hqdefault.jpg)
After time, removal torque's relationship to application torque gets fuzzy... it has been some months now...
Your hope is in a benevelent dealer, not in a technical argument that will be readily refuted.
No maintenance history, no record of who touched what, when.
No case.
The vendor might have liked the opportunity to finish the story before it got told?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
The small studs on the drive axle are easy to stretch and break that why the hub pilot is the standard of today all wheel studs are the same diameter front,drive and tag
1967 Eagle??? At that age, who knows how many times wheels have been removed over the years, even using torque wrenches some of the times. Even good fasteners fatigue over time.I would recommend having ALL studs and nuts replaced on that wheel position. At least that wheel is back to 100 percent. Of course, direct them to use a torque wrench when reinstalling. Now would be the time since they have to remove hub to remove studs. Make sure they don't try to charge the total labor for this, just the additional time to do the remaining studs over the ones they are willing to take care of. Take the time to work this out before they start with a agreed upon price.
HI Gary;
Thanks for the info and your cause for concern about your coach. After Quartzite, I blew a oil
seal on the drivers side tag axle. I am to take my coach into the shop today for repairs. Now
I know a few more questions to ask. Last time the coach was in the same shop for air bags,
they hammered the wheel nuts on the tag axel. I estimate they were tightened to 600 ft/lbs or a little more.
I will mention this to them today.
Thanks, merle.
As far as the "mis-trust" between dealers goes I would say it is fully understandable. Although they may sell the same product, unless they are owned by the same people, they are different businesses. it would be like taking a Chevy to a Ford dealer. Once the 2nd company works on your wheel they are NOW married to the job that someone else started/completed/messed up. Caution is obvious on the part of the 2nd shop.
As to what caused the failure in the first place ... assumptions abound, fact is the stud (BTW axle or wheel?) is broken. Sloppy workmanship, poor quality products, past useful service life ... you will probably never know. We all tend to blame the front line person to start. I am not saying it is NOT his/her fault just that if they are in that position, especially at a brand name dealership, it should be accepted that the tech does know a thing or two about working on heavy equipment.
Just my opinion ...
One trick is to ask the service writer for the torque specs BEFORE they start work on your vehicle. This will give everyone a heads up that you have a higher knowledge than the guy on the sidewalk out front jogging past in a lavender track suit.
Good Point Jim. What are the proper torque specs for the lugs nuts on an Eagle?
I've never seen Gary in a lavender track suit. ;D ;D
Jack
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on February 14, 2018, 09:02:08 AM
Good Point Jim. What are the proper torque specs for the lugs nuts on an Eagle?
LOL depends on how much never seize you use
Quote from: luvrbus on February 14, 2018, 09:32:42 AM
LOL depends on how much never seize you use
WOW! Apparently someone missed the thread on using never seize on lug nuts. :D
I did a search, and there are sites that are okay with lubing the studs-- just lower the torque if you use lube. 450-500 ft pounds is the standard.
I'm assuming that the original invoice had some blurb about checking the lug not torque at some point shortly after leaving their shop. Every truck shop that I had my truck in that had the wheels off had it. Most places, if it's some sort of a chain will do it for free. If you didn't do that, or can't prove it, you're probably going to have to pay for it yourself.
A good read on wheel attachment ...
https://www.arconic.com/alcoawheels/europe/pdf/en/alcoa_wheel_service_manual_english.pdf (https://www.arconic.com/alcoawheels/europe/pdf/en/alcoa_wheel_service_manual_english.pdf)
Torque chart is on page 47 but if you have the time, read the entire manual. It is definitely worth it.
BTW, for those who use a powder or liquid balancing compound read page 35.
Am I crazy or did the guy put these Lug nuts on upside down? And is this may be what the problem is?
Isn't it true that every other stud is threaded the opposite direction?
Yes on some buses there are Left hand studs on one side and Right hand studs on the opposite side. But my concern is that he put these nuts on upside down for this wheel type as I am thinking that the convex side of the nut should "seat" snugly in the concave surface in each log nut hole. I did not look at this this morning when I took the pix, but I am pretty sure the nuts are on the other way on the other wheels by looking at these pictures.
He damn sure did now you get nice shiny wheels ,no all the studs on each side turn the same direction right or left lol unless some fool installed different stud on the wrong side and that happens to often.You need to buy a lotto ticket you are 1 lucky sucker Gary bouncing across the US with that rigging
I wonder if the guy wasn't familiar with our style of lug nuts and studs. That wheel sure looks screwed up also. Maybe he was only familiar with hub piloted wheels. I would have somebody else there with more experience fix this.
Many times shops give unusual work to the low man on the totem pole, as the old heads want the better work. Btw, how rough does the coach look?
Go to a shop for brake work at a dealer you always get a rookie or a guy who just moved up from sweeping the floors
I just got this email from Freightliner in Fontana, CA.
We don't work on units over 20 years old at this facility due to parts availability and liability.
So don't bother calling these guys if you have an old bus. >:(
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on February 15, 2018, 10:18:22 AM
Am I crazy or did the guy put these Lug nuts on upside down? And is this may be what the problem is?
they are on wrong and the wheel is ruined.
have you sent the picture to the installing shop ?
Really?
This is playing out like a "reality" tv show...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: eagle19952 on February 15, 2018, 04:39:06 PM
they are on wrong and the wheel is ruined.
have you sent the picture to the installing shop ?
Yes, I sent them pix and they did not say the nuts were on backwards, but when I brought it up, they said they will replace the wheel, so I guess they noticed but were not going to say anything to me. So I guess they will be having words with the "mechanic" that worked on it. I am supposed to call them back tomorrow morning and talk with the Service Manager and a supervisor or someone to determine how we can find a Freightliner shop near me in Anaheim, CA that can do this work. They have not yet agreed to replace all of the studs, but I am going to try to get them to do this. I also would like the wheels pulled and the bearings and seals checked too as I am also concerned they may not have been installed correctly either.
??? now you know why"no customers are allowed in the working area" that is terrible I never saw anyone that dumb before and I have seen some good ones ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on February 15, 2018, 06:29:41 PM
??? now you know why"no customers are allowed in the working area" that is terrible I never saw anyone that dumb before and I have seen some good ones ;D
What Cliff? They tell me it is for insurance reasons. ;)
MCI require clean dry threads with only a drop of oil to prevent galling if necessary. Splashing goop all over studs and bearing surfaces can reduce friction to 1/3 of what it should be so applying the specified torque puts 3 times the stretching force on the stud.
Once the goop goes on it is a hell of a job to remove it from the studs and even harder to get it out of the nuts.
Tony Lee, you know better than to bring engineering to an emotional debate!!!
For the novice, the manufacturers all publish procedures and best practices.
The rest of the world chooses to do whatever it is they do.
Novices, consider who carries the most liability...
I bet that's the safest route...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Here is somebody a huge law suit use never seize and lose a wheel then you can sue Permatex it states on their bottle for use on lug nuts and studs anyone up for a class action law suit ?
(facepalm)
If you have your lawyers business card, send it to them without explanation.
Never-Seize is sort of like Brylcream Hair Smuck, a little dab will do you. Gary, those are the most tortured lug nuts and wheels I have ever seen; it should be a felony to treat wheels like that. :'(
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on February 15, 2018, 10:18:22 AM
Am I crazy or did the guy put these Lug nuts on upside down? And is this may be what the problem is?
Hard to believe someone collected a paycheck to do that..... WOW!
Quote from: luvrbus on February 15, 2018, 06:29:41 PM
??? now you know why"no customers are allowed in the working area" that is terrible I never saw anyone that dumb before and I have seen some good ones ;D
me too. :(
lol..(not really...well sort of).
you should be grateful the nuts were put on backwards, the mutt could have rung them clear through the rim...wallowing holes big enough to throw baseballs thru...you'd have lost a tire 8 miles west of the install... :-[
Quote from: eagle19952 on February 15, 2018, 08:46:48 PM
me too. :(
lol..(not really...well sort of).
you should be grateful the nuts were put on backwards, the mutt could have rung them clear through the rim...wallowing holes big enough to throw baseballs thru...you'd have lost a tire 8 miles west of the install... :-[
Yeah, but at least at 8 miles away it would have been very easy to determine who and to what extent was liable! I can't believe Freightliner would even let a guy that would put lug nuts on backwards handle an impact gun!
They are clearly at fault here and are responsible not only for replacing your wheel and ALL the studs and nuts on that wheel Gary, but also having a mechanic that doesn't have his head up his @$# check any other work done while at that time. (since the proper way to replace the studs is to remove the hub, the bearings will be removed and redone in this process, and a new seal should be re-installed as well!)
Gary you should get a hold of Tom C as I believe he might have some pull at Fontana's Freightliner Dealer and maybe able to help get them to do the work for you. However at this point if it were me (
notice I did say IF IT WERE ME), I'd insist that they pay my travel expenses and the total repair bill at the shop of my choice after a major screw up like that. Then I'd call Clifford and see when he could \
schedule you in, and take it to where you know it will be done right the first time!
You can rest assured if you have Clifford do it, it will be done right and both of you will be properly compensated for the job!
;D BK ;D
I wouldn't be driving that bus he got lucky the inner nuts just go on 1 way
You guys have it all wrong! Those lug nuts are not upside down, that would have been okay. They are inside out for Christ sakes! The mechanic obviously suffers from dyslexia, and you mess with him you will incur the wrath of the Americans With Disabilities Act.
Sorry, I had to throw that in. It's a bad situation.
I worked with L.A. Freightliner in Whittier, Ca (Fontana is a branch) for 15 years. I've seen their work. I would bit the bullet and take it to a bus dedicated shop, like what's also out there in Fontana.
When you have the wheels changed, you should put never seize on the threads so there isn't a problem with removing wheels maybe 12 years later. I had never seize on my wheels on my truck and those wheels had not been off the bus in 20 years, yet no problems with stuck outer or inner nuts.
If you want a good tire shop, try Ray's OK tire in S. El Monte. I've been dealing with them for almost 40 years. Good Luck, TomC
Maybe Gary put them on backwards, and the kid put them back on the way he found them??????😬
Gary had it repaired in El Paso it was probably a " no hablo ingles" translation in the communications ;)
All the new trucks use hub-centered wheels. So if you have a newbie, he is going to put the flat side against the rim, just like he's used to. Hello, Budd wheels?
That's what I said earlier. A current Freightliner dealer mechanic, if young probably never saw a stud piloted wheel setup or split rims. Or a bus built before he was born.
"Maybe Gary put them on backwards, and the kid put them back on the way he found them?Huh??😬"
With all the money Gary makes --bales of Benjamines, there is now way he personally would even have had time to do that so that clearly didn't happen.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 16, 2018, 06:31:04 PM
A current Freightliner dealer mechanic, if young probably never saw a stud piloted wheel setup
uhmm...
did if he took them off.
Quote from: luvrbus on February 16, 2018, 06:09:40 PM
Gary had it repaired in El Paso it was probably a " no hablo ingles" translation in the communications ;)
some of the best wrenches that worked for/with me were not Americans.
just saying.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 16, 2018, 06:31:04 PM
That's what I said earlier. A current Freightliner dealer mechanic, if young probably never saw a stud piloted wheel setup or split rims. Or a bus built before he was born.
When I had a 1970 Mercedes my rule was to never have anyone younger than the car working on it. I had a succession of cranky old farts work on it over the years with no problems, and the one time I had to use some youngster he screwed up royally. I'll follow the same rule for my bus.
John
Quote from: eagle19952 on February 16, 2018, 06:59:38 PM
some of the best wrenches that worked for/with me were not Americans.
just saying.
There are some good bus mechanics here that don't speak English either the communication is needed on both sides, I know enough Spanish to barely get by, Arabic I never did get the hang of it
A mistake like this is unlikely just a case of a lack of concentration. Inexperience - possibly. So does that leave intent?
It seems unlikely that if the person who took the hub apart was the one who installed the nuts on backwards otherwise I think we would be discussing a wheel-off.
If you imagine the installer looking at the first nut and wondering "which way ...". A simple glance over at the other axle would tell him.
Disgruntled employee? "How to quit with (zero)class"?
There is a person setting on his @$# in a small office that didn't do his friggin job either
This case reminds me of the old adage "if you can't work on your own bus, you shouldn't have one". OK, for a lot of guys, not feasible. But everyone should at least check the work of the incompetents in these shops before paying the bill.
Kind of reminds me of my trip home with our current bus. First morning I went to check tire pressure and realized that one of the out wheels on the rear was mis-clocked and there was no access to the inner tire's valve stem. I pulled into the nearest place that was open to have them re-clock the tire, and I hovered just outside the bay door the entire time. Good thing too, as the young kid doing the work had no idea how to lift the bus and would have ended up putting a hole in the bottom of the bus if I wasn't there. I finally showed him the manual where it recommended just running the inner tire up on a block to remove the outer. Simple, but it worked.
Coincidentally to this thread, he did discover that there was a broken stud on the wheel that someone previously had just installed as a dummy. I would have had them fix this on the spot if a) they had been qualified, and b) they had access to the correct studs. This was on my list for the first trip to the shop when I got home. I know carry a few extra studs for all four corners since one never knows when and where they'll need to be replaced.
Quote from: oltrunt on February 16, 2018, 06:49:05 PM
"Maybe Gary put them on backwards, and the kid put them back on the way he found them?Huh??😬"
With all the money Gary makes --bales of Benjamines, there is now way he personally would even have had time to do that so that clearly didn't happen.
Sorry, I was out flying in the BCM jet when you sent this. What did you say? :D
I teach diesel mechanics at a vocational school. We have 2 trucks with budds and every year I get a few with the left handed nuts. I do cover it in class but until they see it and do it generally they don't pay attention. There are 22-25 in each class. One student couldn't get wheels off and came to me for help. They were the left hand nuts, I pick up the 1 inch impact he is using and flip the direction switch without him seeing. I take a lug nut off and hand gun back to him flipping switch back each time. Each time he can't do it and hands it to me and I can. He's getting more mad and frustrated as we go. At one point a guidance counselor walks by and I say even Mr. Anderson can probably do it. I hand him the impact flipping the switch and he gets one loose . This kid is pissed now and I finally had to let him know what he was going on. I may have pushed him a little to far but I guarantee he'll never forget. We torque everything possible and I do my best to make them follow proper procedures but with 20+ students per class I can't be everywhere. Nuts do end up backwards valve stems not accessible and I'll tell them something's not right and make them allsit and figure it out. Another time a student was torquing u bolts and couldn't get the 3/4 wrench to click. I told him to man up and he'd get it. Finally I walked over to check t.and he has torque wrench assembled wrong and it will never click.
Gary, does your Eagle have a Steel inner wheel or Aluminum? The reason I ask is it appears the inner stud is too short. Makes me think of a Jeff Jefferson bus story...Clifford will know that story for sure. LOL I have a funny story to tell that happened to me, I installed Alcoa's on my Eagle, looked at the new nuts I already had and said "do not need new lug nuts for this". Wrong!! Had trouble with the chrome caps falling off on trips. Anyway, read a post from Clifford Allen about the difference in lug nuts for aluminum vs steel wheels....could he be right on this? You bet, he was! Ordered the correct part number and what do you know...no problems. BTW, Clifford thank you for your wisdom.
Jim H.
Quote from: jhufford on February 18, 2018, 02:25:52 PM
Gary, does your Eagle have a Steel inner wheel or Aluminum?
Jim H.
I believe it is aluminum, but I haven't really noticed. The studs were long enuf for the past 20 years so I think we are okay there. But I will definitely check. Thanks.
An update. Freightliner in El Paso said I can take my bus to any Freightliner company and have my wheels pulled and the stud replaced and also replace the wheel. He did not authorize any work to ensure everything was done correctly by their rookie mechanic. So I called 3 dealers in my area and not one of them will work on a bus over 20 years old. This makes no sense to me.
So perhaps it is not a good idea to take your bus to a Freightliner shop to have an work done as I may have to go back to the original shop to have this problem fixed, if the wheel does not fall off in the meantime. I asked them if I can take it to the local MCI or ABC Bus who works on these old buses all of the time and they said no. So I called the bigger dog at their company and he is supposed to get back to me tomorrow. Stay tuned.
I'm rooting for you!
Will
I finally got my bus into the shop to have my wheel repaired. They took the wheel off and discovered that the guy that installed the nuts on backwards augered a counter bore hole the size of a nut into the aluminum with his impact wrench. This is what the holes look like now. The repair bill is about $1500 to replace the wheel, stud, and do the work. This is how all of the holes look. You can click on the image to enlarge it.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 21, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
They took the wheel off and discovered that the guy that installed the nuts on backwards augered a counter bore hole the size of a nut into the aluminum with his impact wrench.
needs to be chastised with a torque wrench...
Beautiful :'(
And they walk among us ...
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 21, 2018, 01:09:52 PMI finally got my bus into the shop to have my wheel repaired. They took the wheel off and discovered that the guy that installed the nuts on backwards augered a counter bore hole the size of a nut into the aluminum with his impact wrench. This is what the holes look like now. The repair bill is about $1500 to replace the wheel, stud, and do the work. This is how all of the holes look. You can click on the image to enlarge it.
Just one wheel, Gary? (That is one nasty mess - I'm thinking rookie mechanic needs to be sent back to basic mechanics' school -- or, certainly, out of the shop.)
At the very least, if/when this whole mess is resolved, a letter should be sent to the various executives at Freightliner responsible for "customer service" (or their concept of it) telling them to read this exact thread. They have to understand that their hiring and training practices are grossly deficient, and that the next time something like this happens it could easily end up with their sorry asses in a court explaining to an unsympathetic judge and jury why they see fit to employ ignorant unskilled idiots.
Uneffingbelievable.
John
Quote from: Iceni John on March 22, 2018, 07:38:05 AMAt the very least, if/when this whole mess is resolved, a letter should be sent to the various executives at Freightliner responsible for "customer service" (or their concept of it) telling them to read this exact thread. They have to understand that their hiring and training practices are grossly deficient, and that the next time something like this happens it could easily end up with their sorry asses in a court explaining to an unsympathetic judge and jury why they see fit to employ ignorant unskilled idiots.
Uneffingbelievable.
John
OK, that brings up a point. Did "Freightliner" (the company) do the awful work on this bus? If it was a locally-owned dealer, Freightliner has little say in the operations of the local company. Vehicle dealers have been very strong for a long time in cajoling State Legislatures to write laws making their companies 100% independent from the manufacturers. Most dealers could hire Rin-tin-tin, Lassie, and GrumpyCat as "service techs" and the factory can't do anything about it (other than offering Milk-bones and catnip during the break at service school). If this was not a wholly-owned subsidiary company of Freightliner, it wasn't "Freightliner" that did the work and "Freightliner" has no say in how the dealer/service shop is run.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on March 22, 2018, 06:07:41 AM
Just one wheel, Gary? (That is one nasty mess - I'm thinking rookie mechanic needs to be sent back to basic mechanics' school -- or, certainly, out of the shop.)
Yes fortunately only one wheel. I had a seal leaking in only one wheel but I bought seals and bearings for both sides and was going to have them do the other side too but it was 5:30 when he finished so it was too late. THANKFULLY!
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 22, 2018, 05:37:54 PMYes fortunately only one wheel. I had a seal leaking in only one wheel but I bought seals and bearings for both sides and was going to have them do the other side too but it was 5:30 when he finished so it was too late. THANKFULLY!
Yep, you got lucky.
Quote from: Iceni John on March 22, 2018, 07:38:05 AM
At the very least, if/when this whole mess is resolved, a letter should be sent to the various executives at Freightliner responsible for "customer service" (or their concept of it) telling them to read this exact thread. They have to understand that their hiring and training practices are grossly deficient, and that the next time something like this happens it could easily end up with their sorry asses in a court explaining to an unsympathetic judge and jury why they see fit to employ ignorant unskilled idiots.
Uneffingbelievable.
John
It has been a real hassle on my part with all of the extra work involved in calling two local Freightliner dealers in the area that turned me down because my bus is over 20 years old. Then packing everything up and moving my bus to a yard to have the wheel pulled and photos sent in for proof. I guess they could not believe their mechanics are so stupid. And now I have lived two nights so far in the shops parking lot next to the train tracks and listening to their horn as they go thru town. But as long as they reimbursed me for the work after I pay for it, I guess I will leave it at that as I don't want to be blackballed at all Freightliner shops as I may need more work done in the future when traveling and hopefully most of them have better trained mechanics.
It could have been really bad if my wheel came off on the interstate at 70 MPH and because it was on the drivers side my bus could have careened out of control off the road over the comedian strip and hit an oncoming school bus full of kids. Then they would have had a big lawsuit.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 22, 2018, 05:44:17 PM
It has been a real hassle on my part with all of the extra work involved in calling two local Freightliner dealers in the area that turned me down because my bus is over 20 years old. Then packing everything up and moving my bus to a yard to have the wheel pulled and photos sent in for proof. I guess they could not believe their mechanics are so stupid. And now I have lived two nights so far in the shops parking lot next to the train tracks and listening to their horn as they go thru town. But as long as they reimbursed me for the work after I pay for it, I guess I will leave it at that as I don't want to be blackballed at all Freightliner shops as I may need more work done in the future when traveling and hopefully most of them have better trained mechanics.
LOL so the young man was a rookie I have seen so called season veterans screw up big time too.Gary was lucky he had work done at a shop or dealer that could adsorb the cost, you have people and shops working on buses that don't carry insurance,no connections to other shops on the road for repairs if he had it done at 1 of those places he would be crying real tears
I guess I will leave it at that as I don't want to be blackballed at all Freightliner shops as I may need more work done in the future when traveling and hopefully most of them have better trained mechanics....
maybe a courtesy card and a welcome mat at every Freightliner shop nationwide in lieu of a lawsuit...
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on February 13, 2018, 04:15:59 PM
I had the wheel seals, bearings and races on the rear drivers side of the bus changed out in my 1967 Eagle at the El Paso Frieghtliner dealer last November.
So nobody has asked the question so far ... why were the wheel nuts even touched in the first place? Assuming a Frieghtliner dealer location would be a sizable business they definately should have a wheel dollie. There is no need to breakdown the wheels off the hub in the first place.
Gary, I hope the shop that does the remedial work removes the hub and checks the bearings. I would highly suggest you instruct them to do so even at your own cost if necessary as I would be extremely suspicious of anything that first "tech" may have touched.
I hate those dual dollys. Sold mine. Sure, its easier to get them on and off at the chance of nicking up oil seal when reinstalling assembly if you're off a little. Imagine if that kid used one..... I know "used it hundreds of times and never nicked a seal". Just not my choice.Yrmv. Gary, I think you need to search for better places to have your work done. A lot of the big commercial places dont want to mess with the odd 40 year old vehicles. Many times they are a pita due to age. After all it's just an old bus to them. I doubt the parts dept. appreciates chasing parts for it. Too bad you don't live near Luke.
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 23, 2018, 04:44:12 AM
I hate those dual dollys. Sold mine. Sure, its easier to get them on and off at the chance of nicking up oil seal when reinstalling assembly if you're off a little. Imagine if that kid used one..... I know "used it hundreds of times and never nicked a seal". Just not my choice.Yrmv. Gary, I think you need to search for better places to have your work done. A lot of the big commercial places dont want to mess with the odd 40 year old vehicles. Many times they are a pita due to age. After all it's just an old bus to them. I doubt the parts dept. appreciates chasing parts for it. Too bad you don't live near Luke.
Shops are getting tough to find that will work on old buses period lol they are a restoration project for sure a 1 day job can run into a couple of weeks even with Luke on the prowl ;D
Exactly, especially with Eagles. Not so much with GMC's. They recognize the GMC brand. Eagle??? wasn't that something AMC built? Ok, I' ll run for cover now.lol
Quote from: luvrbus on March 23, 2018, 06:40:43 AM
Shops are getting tough to find that will work on old buses period lol they are a restoration project for sure a 1 day job can run into a couple of weeks even with Luke on the prowl ;D
I was told the same thing by a shop who worked on a bus I was considering. You don't repair but restore old busses. When you can't even order up parts and have to spend time and energy just finding parts, it's a money loser. Then you open it up and find a bunch of other stuff needs work, the owner is just filled with joy hearing it's going to cost more and take a lot longer. Just the kind of customers that you love to have, right?
Ya gotta be nuts to own a bus, ah, right - busnuts! lol
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 23, 2018, 06:46:17 AM
Exactly, especially with Eagles. Not so much with GMC's. They recognize the GMC brand. Eagle??? wasn't that something AMC built? Ok, I' ll run for cover now.lol
Equally as insulting as being thought of as an American Motors product, is being confused with American Eagle RV's. Then there are the looks you get from garages and insurance agents when you tell them your VIN is a four digit number. I am surprised that twenty yours old is too old to be serviced, seems like they would prefer ten years as a cut-off so that there is less chance that we come in with old tires with three digit DOT codes that might blow up in their faces. I think Gary's experience points out the fact that we need to be more fully prepared to service our own coaches when at all possible.
Quote from: Jim Eh. on March 22, 2018, 07:51:10 PM
So nobody has asked the question so far ... why were the wheel nuts even touched in the first place? Assuming a Frieghtliner dealer location would be a sizable business they definately should have a wheel dollie. There is no need to breakdown the wheels off the hub in the first place.
Gary, I hope the shop that does the remedial work removes the hub and checks the bearings. I would highly suggest you instruct them to do so even at your own cost if necessary as I would be extremely suspicious of anything that first "tech" may have touched.
I had a leaking rear wheel seal. Once they got in there they also found pitted bearings. So they replaced bearings, races, and the seal. Pretty simple job but it took them all day because it was a bit difficult to find the bearings in stock in El Paso. The current shop does not recommending checking the bearings as the seal may be damaged. Besides he said it has already traveled from El Paso to Anaheim to Quartzsite and back to Anaheim. If something was wrong with the bearings or seals, it would have shown up by now.
I sent the estimate to Freightliner three days ago and they still have not approved the repairs. My shop need something in writing saying they will pay for the repairs before beginning. I copied the shop manager and three other people on the email but no word from them. So hopefully they will pay for the repairs otherwise it will be another $1500 out of my pocket for the repairs on top of the original $1,500 repair bill.
I think I will start a list on my website for people to list reputable bus repair companies in the U.S. and let anyone add in a shop name along with optional comments. How many people would find this helpful? This may prevent other bus nuts from going thru the agony that I am going thru right now.
Title it, "How not go broke being a busnut".
I'd find it helpful. I hesitate to take my car or bus into any mechanic but it would be especially helpful when on the road.
I don't care much for bashing a shop sometimes you only get 1/2 the story,Freigtliner will probably cover the cost it may take a few months it took me 8 months to get $ 14,281.00 from one of their screw up but I did get it
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 23, 2018, 07:50:32 PM
I think I will start a list on my website for people to list reputable bus repair companies in the U.S. and let anyone add in a shop name along with optional comments. How many people would find this helpful? This may prevent other bus nuts from going thru the agony that I am going thru right now.
Hey Gary, I'm into mountain biking (for the exercise) and I visit bike sites all the time. There is one that keeps a sticky with a list of bike shops that people have recommended. Unless recommended, you can't be on the list. Maybe something along those lines for bus repair shops. Only those recommended by a busnut that has used them qualifies for the list. Just a thought,
Will
PS-hopefully you get your situation resolved soon.
What Clifford said.
Lists on websites are a feel good exercise but in the real world they don't accomplish much. There's genuine screw ups and there's personality conflicts. The best way to ensure good work is to understand what needs to be done and monitor it. You don't need to actually do all the work but if you don't understand how to do it then you're open for abuse at the hands of an unscrupulous shop.
Well I heard back from Roger Gomez, the Service Manager of Doggett Freightliner in El Paso, Texas this morning.
This was his response to me asking for him to reply back to my email for my shop that they would pay for the repairs as they would not accept a verbal response.
I have already told you what you needed to do. What is the issue now?
Do all Freightliner shops have this attitude or is it just Doggett Freightliner in El Paso, TX? >:(
Gary
I would notify the offending party that if not resolved in 7 days you will file a small claims court case. It is a massive pain in the @$# for their rep to show up in court especially if they are many miles away. Filing fees are small, and you should easily get a judgement in your favor with the documentation you have. I have gone this route two or three times and won each time. Sometimes a judgement in your favor is hard to collect from a small fly by night, but a Freightliner dealership shouldn't be too tough.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 24, 2018, 09:32:17 AM
Well I heard back from Roger Gomez, the Service Manager of Doggett Freightliner in El Paso, Texas this morning.
This was his response to me asking for him to reply back to my email for my shop that they would pay for the repairs as they would not accept a verbal response.
I have already told you what you needed to do. What is the issue now?
Do all Freightliner shops have this attitude or is it just Doggett Freightliner in El Paso, TX? >:(
Gary
Hmmm, set up a guest account for him and Frieghtliner (corporate) here to view the increasingly negative reviews and bad PR THEY are getting?
bet a nickle it's a very short list... >:(
Two outfits that will never touch my bus again , Freightliner of Asheville ,and Snider Tire!!
Quote from: bigred on March 24, 2018, 02:32:30 PM
Two outfits that will never touch my bus again , Freightliner of Asheville ,and Snider Tire!!
maybe we need two lists...:( :( >:( ???
New name for Gary,,, STUDLESS. ;D he he he.>>>D
In looking at the first picture you posted showing the broken stud with the wheel still on the bus - I may be wrong but it appears to me that the end of the inner lug nut that the outer nut is threaded onto is what actually broke off, not the stud itself. I don't see a later photo after the wheel was removed. In the first photo you can see the actual wheel stud inside of the broken off inner lug nut. I have dealt with this before. they make a socket with splines on the inside to drive onto the broken inner nut in order to remove it. Any heavy tire shop or truck shop should have one. Yes the DA put the nuts on inside out and ruined the wheel, but the stud itself may be undamaged.
I just took another look at the photo after blowing it up. I am sure that it is just the inner lug nut that has the end broken off exposing the end of the wheel stud itself. When using aluminum wheels the inner lug nut is longer / taller to accommodate extending thru the thicker outer aluminum wheel. Consequently the actual wheel stud height is about flush with the surface of the outer wheel - this is what you are seeing in the picture - the broken off inner lug nut and the normal end of the stud itself. You can still see the normal end of the stud itself. A new wheel and new lug nuts and you should be good to go.
The new wheel is in and a truck tire place is coming over to day to replace the stud and reassemble everything. The hub cover should arrive today and I should be back home later today or tomorrow. Thankfully this occurred when I was close to home and the shop let me live in my bus (I am a full-timer) on their property.
This could have been much worse of course, like if the wheel broke lose and tore up my fender wells or if it caused an accident. Or I could have had to do this while on the road which would be more inconvenient, or I may have had to pay for a hotel room for several days while they worked on my bus.
So all will be well soon and I will be on my way. Then it is just a question if Doggett Freightliner in El Paso Texas will reimburse me for the bill for the new wheel, stud, and wheel cover, and when. I will keep you posted.
Glad to hear that you're making progress.
Will
Thanks PP. They brought the second wheel over and replaced it and put on all new nuts. They could not find the wheel cover in time before I had to leave, but it should be there by the time I return.
They mailed the paid receipt to Doggett Frieghtliner. We will see how long it takes them to pay it. The bill came to more than what the original service cost.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 28, 2018, 03:24:37 PMThanks PP. They brought the second wheel over and replaced it and put on all new nuts. ...
Did they at least put a thread gauge (or similar) on the studs to see if they were stretched???? I'm worried about your studs, Gary.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on March 28, 2018, 03:41:04 PM
Did they at least put a thread gauge (or similar) on the studs to see if they were stretched???? I'm worried about your studs, Gary.
I don't think so but they put new nuts on so they should have realized if they were stretched.
Did they do a final tightening with a torque wrench or just tighten with an air gun? Finding folks that know how to work with bud wheels correctly is getting harder all the time. Of the tire shops I have dealt with in the Spokane WA area, the Good Year Commercial Tire Center is the only one that I have seen regularly torque all lug nuts without being asked to. Glad to see that you are on the road again.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 28, 2018, 05:10:50 PM
I don't think so but they put new nuts on so they should have realized if they were stretched.
How would they know? Airguns solve every tire knob's problem...
Gary, you need a maintenance supervisor.
When are you posting for the job?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 28, 2018, 05:10:50 PMI don't think so but they put new nuts on so they should have realized if they were stretched.
That sounds like good news, but an air gun doesn't care if the threads are in good shape or not. I hope you'll be fine.