Hello all! First post!
I am looking at buying a 1978 MCI-8 Crusader with a 8V71 Detroit Diesel rear engine drive with 740 Allison automatic transmission. I dont see any rust, the engine started in 2-3 seconds, no smoke, smooth idle, air filled quick. airbags leveled easily.
The speedo doesnt work, fuel gage is out, passenger wiper is dead.
I'd like to know if you have any specific things I should check before I drop 10k here. :)
THANKS!
Welcome PNW, Can we assume that you're somewhere in the Pacific NW or wannabe somewhere in the Pacific NW? I'm not going to give advice about buying a bus because there are others here with much more knowledge and experience than me, plus I'm completely ignorant when talking MCI's. Good luck, you will find tons of valuable help here, just take everything with a tiny amount of salt ;D Some are slightly prejudiced toward what they own and rightly so.
Will
Yea, I think a few guys in here wrote very detailed responses in the past on what to look for. I will try to do a search to see if I can find it.
Do you know how old the tires are? My rule is to change tires every 7yrs no matter the wear. I wouldn't like not having a speedometer or fuel gauge. In fact, my fuel gauge isn't very accurate so I have to keep track of the mileage. I have an 8 too but with different engine.
What do you think of the inside? Are there things in there that needs major updating like the floor? Are you able to take it and camp in it right now?
Here are some links that I found from the past
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=15093.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=15093.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11781.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11781.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=30825.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=30825.0)
At 10,000 dollars you don't have mutch to loose. Have a look on the underside around the upper bellow beams. Inside the wheel archs also for panel separation. These things are expensive to repair. Radiators condition. Check if there is no oil in the surch tank. The best of all is to remoove the oil filters (engine and tranny ) and have a look at them by opening them and squizing the papers elements. There is a frame member in front under the driver seat who rot a lot on thoses bus. You can also have some oil analysis.
Drive the bus on the road for a while. Ask someone to follow you with his car to see if the bus drive straight.
Of course,rust is someting you have to whatch. There is tons of tings to check. Take your time.
I bought my MC9 almost a year ago for $3k, it had some unknowns, but I took the chance. Loving it so far. Here is my list I used, I compiled it from a few sources.
Bus Checklist
-
- Check for rust up front - Behind the front bumper is the spare tire area, look in the ceiling of this compartment, check around the drivers foot controls
- - Check for Power Steering Type - Open the service door in front of your left front tire. Beneath the drivers window, if the steering gear box has a hydraulic piston attached to the pitmen arm you will see this hydraulic piston. This hydraulic Piston means you are looking at the power assisted model - don't want.
- - In the drivers compartment, make sure the gauges don't have water damage. On the left of driver you will have switches. Make sure they work smoothly, check for looseness or electrical short damage .
- - On the outside of the lower windshield you have windshield wiper arms. Check the main drive post it can turn left or right in a wiping action but it should not wobble or pull in or out.
- - Back of the bus - Look for bad belts, corroded copper wiring, any rust spots around the engine, also check on the outside of your radiator. There are louvers in front of the radiator for extreme cold weather and they close automatically. Make sure they are opened by themselves, sometimes people will have a problem with them and will force the louvers to stay open with a stick or something.
- - Check rear track bar - A radius rod is a heavy 2 inch steel rod that holds the suspension in place so it wont float around . There are several of these 2 inch rods and they have radius rod bushings. If these bushings wear down the rear end will move around and not track squarely with the bus.
- - Engine - check water hose on back of engine between the exhaust manifold and the starter on the curb side of the engine,it goes from the block to the air compressor, theres another line that goes from the compressor to the head,replace it too. You may have to pull the starter off to get to it.
- - Check oil for coolant
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I would not expect a lot of speed and uphill speed and power with the 8V71 unless you do some updates or change it out to something better. $$$$
Thank you all for the information! I will double check all these for sure.
Another question is insurance. Good Sam / Geico wont insure it, State Farm will give the very basic for 800 a year while Progressive quote me 500K all around for 1k a year. A Lot of people on the Skoolie Forums are saying that are getting canceled two or three times before finding a good policy.
Any thoughts on how to get this thing insured?
Liability only is usually easy.
More than that, it gets murky fast in bus conversion land. Old stuff, no standardized book value, easier to say no.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I'm insured with Foremost via USAA. I could only get liability b/c in order to get more, I would have had to get someone to assess it and I didn't want to go thru that.
If I was full timing, I probably would but I'm not.
I finally got Progressive after Good Sam and FMCA did nothing and left National General. If it isn't fully converted and looks like a pro converted coach then it is not easy to get anything past liability. I had to submit several photos to the agent and it took a few weeks before it was approved. Talking to the agent insurance companies not insuring home built anything, cars, boats, bus conversions. planes. Too much risk with hackers doing things and when something happens they want the insurance company to payout. This year has been tough too with all the California fires, and hurricanes. Take a look at www.copart.com (http://www.copart.com) and see all the water damaged rv type items. Insurance companies call it and we just get stuck with no other good options.
Good Sam had to to Progressive so thats my best quote so far.
On a more technical note: Anyone have thoughts on the existing lavatory, either using it or the process to remove it? Seems like an ordeal to fully remove the system but I am just looking at pics right now, don't have the bus yet.
PNW,
Bite the bullet and remove the lavatory first! You will never be happy leaving it in. In a coach it is probably in the right place, but for most motorhome conversions it is not. You can't put any tanks under it, nor pipe the "stuff" successfully to a tank located in a storage bay.
Removing the factory lavatory was the first thing I did in my 4905 and am glad I did, as it revealed a very rotted floor underneath. I went on to replace the entire floor front to back.
Just my $0.02 worth
Steve
Wait its not converted at all and they want 10k? Seems high to me for that year.
It's not finished no, they have a kitchen in with a table and seating but past that is all empty/clean slate. It does NOT have plumbing or electric done at all outside the factory stuff.
Thats one of the reason I was thinking of keeping the factory lav, to use as I build out the rest of the bus. My concern is once I built out the bedroom for example, do I really want to be messing with demo in the back corner as well?
Yea i think you are not going to want to keep it in the back with what u said plus you have to get tanks and plumbing for fresh/gray anyway. Might as well knock all that stuff at once.
The holding tank is stainless steel and the mounting flange is sandwiched in floor plywood. Best to cut out tank with plasma torch. Saw blades won't touch it.Maybe a Dremel with lots of patience with a diamond blade would work. A cutting torch will only melt stainless slowly.
Is there a place where I can see the whole system online or in a manual so I see the entire job?
I would not be afraid to offer less than $10,000 since it is basically a shell. There is a lot of work to be done to make it a usable conversion. A great plus is that it has the Allison. If the engine, trans, and body are in good running order, then I think somewhere around $5000 would be a better starting point.
Here are some pics...UPDATED
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-5_zps4l6dmaky.jpg.html%3Fo%3D6&hash=a36f7e5e685608614eb312e42ef1692b22a5df89)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-1_zpsbgtncgek.jpg.html%3Fo%3D4&hash=5ef76efddde1a99bce453a7287f587b7f81d5fe2)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-2_zpsgjtko7o8.jpg.html%3Fo%3D8&hash=18e6cc42cfcb6451ec34fb113acd322ea8302e91)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-3_zpsjoxgdwk8.jpg.html%3Fo%3D7&hash=d36c82e00bd1fe4a7ba537242aa94ae65a30f08b)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-4_zpsmhlu3igi.jpg.html%3Fo%3D5&hash=f06f23356b1113fa6f8c8fb07e18861c3d7abeb7)
The dropbox site wants you to sign in to see anything, but the facebook address worked alright.
I will use the checkilists above and see if I can wiggle the price down.
I tried to add pics but....
Hi PNW, $10K with an 8V71, non converted seems high. Check the brake drums, Van told me to reach inside the drum, of the drive wheel and see if there is a ridge, if there is pull off the wheel and look for cracking of the drum, if there is, its a $3K fix. You seem to know about rust, inspect the radiators closely, on on either side of both, salt air get sucked in there causing rust. You didn't say where the bus came from, desert Southwest is the best chance for low rust problems, lvmci...
The MC8, same as all the autos built in the 70's...
Started rusting as they left the factory, no matter where they were operated.
It is rare to find the radiator fan compartment in rust free condition, open the fan door, ladder, and check up high, all the framing holding the expansion tank, andthe floors under the rads. Get in under the driver, and check all the framing holding the throttle linkage. The engine cradle, all the little round tubes, they either were good or they rotted out years ago.
$10k is too high, unless that coach is in suspended animation... and you need some experience to know if it is...
I love the MC8, but there are issues, and as each decade goes by, they don't get better without a dedicated busnut owner...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: PNWorBUST72 on February 14, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
Is there a place where I can see the whole system online or in a manual so I see the entire job?
Here's how to remove the washroom. http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Structural/Washroom_Removal/washroom_removal.htm (http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Structural/Washroom_Removal/washroom_removal.htm)
Quote from: PNWorBUST72 on February 13, 2018, 10:40:26 AM
Hello all! First post!
I am looking at buying a 1978 MCI-8 Crusader with a 8V71 Detroit Diesel rear engine drive with 740 Allison automatic transmission. I dont see any rust, the engine started in 2-3 seconds, no smoke, smooth idle, air filled quick. airbags leveled easily.
The speedo doesnt work, fuel gage is out, passenger wiper is dead.
I'd like to know if you have any specific things I should check before I drop 10k here. :)
THANKS!
YES you have a LOT to lose at $10,000! Unless you just have $10,000 laying around to throw away!
First off an 8V71 is NOT going to like the mountains in the PNW! (and you are most likely not going to like driving it there either!)
An 8V71 is a good engine and was used many many years in many vehicles. But now days it is very under powered compared to modern vehicles and after someone buys one the can't wait to re-power with a better engine or hot rod the 8V71 with a turbo or propane injection.
Both those will boost the power of an 8V71 but will cost $$$$$ to do right or will cost you $$$$$ to fix it after you blow it up doing it the cheap way.
And an a plain jane MC8 unfinished with an 8V71 now days is worth more like $2,000-$5000 unless it has a
documented and warrantied rebuilt engine that the warranty can be transferred to the new owner and can be verified before purchase that IT CAN BE TRANSFERRED AND EXACTLY WHAT IS COVERED! Shoot I got a 1995 Setra S215 40' coach with a 60 Series engine and an Allison B500 that I'd take less than $10,000 for or a 1993 Neoplan Metroliner 45' coach with 60 Series and Allison 740 and two doors (one front, one middle of coach in front of drive axle) and the restroom is downstairs just inside the rear door (middle of coach) that I would take $10,000 FIRM for! The Neoplan is one I traded for to build out my personal coach on because of the "midship" door and restroom. But if it sold for the $10,000 it is worth I'd build the Setra. I love driving both buses and I have more experience working on the Setras.
(also I have lots of Setra spare parts that I would throw in with it if it sells as it is my last Setra and I don't need spare parts for a bus I don't own any more!);D BK ;D
OH Yeah btw way someone else asked where you are located and you didn't answer them. It helps to let other busnuts know where you are located as there might just be one close by you that is willing to share info and help work on yours.
Most of us modify our profile where it shows where we are and what we own at the bottom of our signature line.
Well, it looks solid to me with the eye, although now I have ALOT of additional things to check.
Turns out the new tires are Chinese so there is that concern but for now, at least they are new I guess. A/C might not work, I didnt check it last time I was out. Mechanically it appears sound.
I live in Jacksonville Florida but the bus is 2hrs away so I can't just run out and look at it, I was planning on spending a few hours out there this weekend.
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-1_zpsdzxozsxc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-1_zpsdzxozsxc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0)
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-3_zps3kqsa5pq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-3_zps3kqsa5pq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-4_zpsmhlu3igi.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5 (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-4_zpsmhlu3igi.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5)
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-2_zpsgjtko7o8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8 (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-2_zpsgjtko7o8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8)
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-5_zpspi3pxpkl.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10 (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/kalos1972/media/1978MCI8-5_zpspi3pxpkl.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10)
Unless this coach has the original A/C (that works), it has no A/C other than one or more slider windows. It will not be comfortable going down the road, and it will be miserable trying to sleep in at night. The conversion (so far) is very minimal, but check it out in person, the more buses you see, the more you will learn. Don't be in a rush to dump your money just yet, leave that to the rest of us that really know how to burn money very quickly. ;D
After looking at the photos you posted, I'm inclined to think this bus is worth about $3500. No more. And only if the suspension is not rusted through and the enigne and transmission are top notch.
I think you should spend some time on the Facebook Bus Conversions For Sale site and look at what else if available, particularly already converted buses. You can do much better than this for the money.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-1_zpsdzxozsxc.jpg.html%3Fsort%3D3%26amp%3Bo%3D0&hash=0c7db8e171e8db324e92b37e2a86b877304ef3be)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-3_zps3kqsa5pq.jpg.html%3Fsort%3D3%26amp%3Bo%3D1&hash=0f3ccc8ce5f6679138b04ae13dea48b06a159529)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-4_zpsmhlu3igi.jpg.html%3Fsort%3D3%26amp%3Bo%3D5&hash=fb6abde412f1dc48c12e217216e31043eb810e20)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-2_zpsgjtko7o8.jpg.html%3Fsort%3D3%26amp%3Bo%3D8&hash=c4cfa306addabe1d9c7dafe65e7f21dbc329fdc0)
ooops
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1378.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fkalos1972%2Fmedia%2F1978MCI8-5_zpspi3pxpkl.jpg.html%3Fsort%3D3%26amp%3Bo%3D10&hash=e64d7268654001c81a13aac98b30261ed0da323a)
Quote from: gumpy on February 16, 2018, 11:23:54 AM
After looking at the photos you posted, I'm inclined to think this bus is worth about $3500. No more. And only if the suspension is not rusted through and the enigne and transmission are top notch.
I think you should spend some time on the Facebook Bus Conversions For Sale site and look at what else if available, particularly already converted buses. You can do much better than this for the money.
Craig is being kind and generous as he owns one similar to this coach. First off not only is it a 70's something MCI with an 8V71, but what conversion has been done needs RIPPED OUT and started over from scratch! That original ceiling has literally NO insulation in it and what little is there is probably either matted and moldy or turned to dust by now. (that goes for the side walls too)
There ain't no tell'n how much the original flooring is hiding that needs redone!
And I'm sure when you check the typical rust areas on an MCI you will find LOTS!
But as Craig said $3500 MAX and I would really say more like $3000!
;D BK ;D
Wow, thats a BIG difference here. :(
They could be right about the value, but then no one has actually inspected the coach yet. As I said, check it out, you will increase your knowledge if nothing else. You might even get thrown off the bus if the owner gets insulted by low-ball offers, so tread lightly and look deeply (make the offer from a safe distance if you really must). ;)
Just make sure he has your # if he rejects your lowball #, after he sits on it a while longer he may wish he'd took the offer and got rid of it!
;D BK ;D
Does the value of these busses change with the local market? I can't get a school bus of this size for under 6k locally, I assume a charter bus is at least as costly.
I wrote down a checklist fro this thread to review before I buy it. I am also looking for a local mechanic that could go over the bus before I buy it but am having some trouble there.
You mentioned that engine started quickly with no smoke....a common procedure by an owner is to run engine to warmed up PRIOR to prospective buyer trying to start it. You need to do a start of it unannounced to verify it starts quickly and cleanly. Otherwise, you may find it smokes a great deal cold and in only fair condition. You don't want to start out on a conversion ith an engine needing a rebuild down the road. If that passes and body is miraculously in great condition, not impossible, but improbable, then needs to be driven to check transmission, steering, etc. Brand of Chineese tires and you need to get date codes off them to see how old they are.
Add this to your list. On the MC8, there are some areas to look for hidden rust.
The framing in the front end, below the windshields is prone to rust away.
Pound your fist on the sheathing, over the rivet lines below the windshield and listen for rust falling or feel for soft spots.
Check the dash just behind the center divider. You might be able to stick your finger through the dash.
Pound your fist along the side rivet lines while listening for rust; especially above the drive axle, and just ahead of it.
Check the air beams above the drive axle looking for flaking metal.
In the engine compartment look at the underside of the cooling fan compartment and see how badly it's rusted. Check the frames beside the rear engine doors looking for cracks.
Another question on this bus is the nose, is it typical/normal for these to have as much paint on the nose versus the stainless steel ribbing? There is just ALOT of added color on the front of this bus versus others I have seen online...just curious.
That bus has had an "upgrade". Recapped, which unfortunately removed the beautiful MC8 hump. Fiberglass front surround and bumper cover. That was not uncommon by carriers trying give their older fleet a more modern appearance and get a few more years out of it before having to buy something newer. The stainless may well be beneath the front surround.
Yeah gumpy, I am not a fan to be honest, I liked the stainless. :(
What have people done with the window "handles", I assume most people remove that ugly aluminum thing when they finish their busses? How do they get the windows to lock/open without the bars?
Does it already have an RV title? Big deal.
Getting an RV Title can be a major hassle, or if you're lucky like me, one of the easiest things you've ever done at the DMV. They stumbled through the process with me in MN. "What form does he need?" "And there's like a bathroom and kitchen in there?" Oh yes, yes. Of course there is. :)
The DMV often depends on who you get and how polite you are.
The RV title can also be important for insurance purposes.
Check to make sure it has the 740 automatic transmission. It might be a 640 type. I think right now the old bus would need a top to bottom front to rear inspection? Money well spent. Just me.
Respectfully ...
It is titled as a motor home yes.
I have it at a diesel shop now going over it, definitely worth the time and money to know for sure.
The 8 is good bus we owned 1 for several years what I didn't like is when you go around a corner they lean so much it almost rubs the baggage compartments I never liked that and tried about every shock made to prevent it with no luck.A good retriever is the perfect bus dog for a MCI 8 we were always chasing dishes or some type object ;)
Hmm i dont have that problem but i take turns pretty slow. Did yours sound like the undercarriage was coming apart when it shifts? Mine does haha
NAME?? -
You need to stop shopping with your heart and start shopping with your head!
$10K is WAY too much for an MC-8 shell - you can buy some 8s already converted for that amount.
But you haven't seemed to be paying much attention to the experienced voices here, so I'll just say good luck.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: gumpy on February 20, 2018, 06:28:58 AM
That bus has had an "upgrade". Recapped, which unfortunately removed the beautiful MC8 hump. Fiberglass front surround and bumper cover. That was not uncommon by carriers trying give their older fleet a more modern appearance and get a few more years out of it before having to buy something newer. The stainless may well be beneath the front surround.
Is this "upgrade" an MCI thing or aftermarket? I am pretty sure there are some missing mouldings or something I can see the seem on the corners and across the top. I need to get up there tomorrow and take some pics...
Quote from: PNWorBUST72 on February 23, 2018, 07:08:10 PM
Is this "upgrade" an MCI thing or aftermarket? I am pretty sure there are some missing mouldings or something I can see the seem on the corners and across the top. I need to get up there tomorrow and take some pics...
sounds like you've already bought this bus...
true ?
Quote from: eagle19952 on February 23, 2018, 08:05:15 PM
sounds like you've already bought this bus...
true ?
That is the way it works I see it happen all the time 85% of people end up buying the 1st bus they look at for some reason
Yes, I did buy the bus at a much reduced price.
I found no rust in the spots listed. Mechanically, its super sound. I had a local guy look over it for 2 days, nothing besides what I knew already. Fuel gauge, speedo, pass wiper inoperable. AC doesnt blow super cold but its cool, I have a mobile trailer refrigeration guy that will look at it.
There is small slash in the roof, about 2inchs long I need to fix. For now I am going to clean the area and just put some Eternabond tape over it until I prepare to Henry Tropi-cool the roof.
I also looked at 2 other buses, all much higher priced full conversions. Mechanically, they seemed solid, especially since they were all at least a decade newer. But the interiors were all pretty old, like a 70's show episode. To meet the family needs, we would need to remove at least a good portion of the interior.
My wife and I weighed the options, buy a newer bus, pay 3-4 times the price and need to undo someone else's work OR buy the cheaper bus and start from scratch.
What??? You don't like conversions with mirrors on the ceilings?lol
If the MCI-8 is a good runner, then he is way ahead of many first coaches. Not getting stuck by the side of the road has virtue, and he paid attention to the fact that $10,000 was too much, so, he did okay.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 24, 2018, 09:01:32 AM
If the MCI-8 is a good runner, then he is way ahead of many first coaches. Not getting stuck by the side of the road has virtue, and he paid attention to the fact that $10,000 was too much, so, he did okay.
so, he did okay.
which is nice to know. now it might be time to start a new post :)
Congrats! Yeah Mrs and I did similar, bought something older and build it ourselves vs spending more up front just to undo most of it.
Just watch the coolant temp, oil levels, and tire pressures like a hawk. Post pics and whatnot as you build.
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