as I right this I am sitting in the coach running my 12 k diesel genne charging up my 6 gulf cart batteries as we had a break in the weather and made it to Florida early and have no pole power until tuesday .
kind of over kill because the temp . is nice and I like the windows open so not using very much power other then the battery charger and it is to the point that they are only getting 45 amps from the charger . batteries are about 97 % charged as per my bogart gauge so would it be a dumb idea to have a small yamaha 2000 gas genne that I could move it to a place that makes little noise ( in the back of my truck ) and run a extension cord to do the final charge and it could run the fridge as well . rather then run the big diesel genne .
any ideas ?
thanks Dave
Get a Honda 1000 or 2000, easy on fuel, one of the quietest around. :)
If you want to keep the cost down for this, Harbor Freight has copycat models pretty reasonable priced. Otherwise, go with a whisper quiet Honda of same capacity.
Several years ago I saw a fuel cell at the Seattle boat show. It was absolutely silent. I haven't paid any attention to that technology but it might be an option. As I recall it was relatively low power output but probably adequate for charging batteries. It also only ran on methanol (as I recall anyway) so that would be about as convenient as hip pockets in long underwear but the technology has likely advanced. Might be worth a look.
Solar.>>>Dan
I agree with above, a simple 1-2 panel/ $10 charge controller solar setup would keep them charged up, you could mount it on the roof or even make it something you pull out from time to time during down season.
J
I agree, running a big genset to just charge your batteries is overkill and will generate excess heat and also prematurely wear it out. I have also thought of installing a second genset, probably a 1 KW Honda to run primarily to charge the batteries.
If I was designing a bus from scratch I may consider this because then I could plan on a way to mount it so I don't have to tether it with a big chain and I could make space in a safe place for a large gas tank. That is one of my issues, I don't like carrying plastic cans of fuel in my bus and don't like the look of carrying fuel cans on the back of my Eagle.
Saying all that, I am seriously considering solar now because solar has been better perfected, is reasonably priced, and is relatively easy to install and are great at keeping your batteries topped off which is the best way to maintain them.
solar panels would work if I was in the sun but we try to park under trees if we can
I looked at a comparison of the yamaha and the honda and they are almost the same but the yamaha has a longer run time on 1/4 load on the 2000 watt units
for the 45 lbs and the size it would be nice as a small back up unit for the rv
Dave
Go Honda Dave. You won't regret it. I have abused the living daylights out of my EU3000is units and they keep on ticking. Get an EU2000. Get the BERG gas extending system and call it a day.
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pole power is on !
thanks for the replies now it is time to do the research to see what is the best way to go
Dave
Harbor also sells a 100 watt solar set up for charging batteries for $149.00 if you don''t want to fool with the gas situation.
100 watts at 14.1 volts is just over 7 amps- not enough to charge, but enough to maintain.
Quote from: TomC on February 07, 2018, 07:36:10 AM100 watts at 14.1 volts is just over 7 amps- not enough to charge, but enough to maintain.
Two problems - 1) We're talking Harbor Freight here, 2) Most places say "derate" solar numbers by about 75% meaning that on the odd day that a HF unit is working at all, expect about 75 watts. "Hardly" enough to maintain a useful-size battery bank.
Quote from: TomC on February 07, 2018, 07:36:10 AM
100 watts at 14.1 volts is just over 7 amps- not enough to charge, but enough to maintain.
100 watts is just something to stub your toe on when you're on the roof. Don't bother.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on February 07, 2018, 08:18:48 AM100 watts is just something to stub your toe on when you're on the roof. Don't bother.
Roger that ...
now that I have pole power I did a equalize charge on my battery bank ( 6 x 6v =12 v 690 amps gulf cart batteries ) and my bogart went from 97% up to 100% all is good now .
If I did not already have a 3000 watt , a 7000 watt honda genne I would buy a 2000 watt yamaha but for now I will wait
solar would be the answer if I liked to park in the sun
thanks Dave
Personally, I'd go with a Honda. They have a good reputation, although a bit more money. If cost is factor, then go with a Harbor Freight and buy extended warranty.
http://powerupgenerator.com/earthquake-ig800w-model-11613-portable-generator-review (http://powerupgenerator.com/earthquake-ig800w-model-11613-portable-generator-review)
Use this one and a 40 amp smart charger in case my bus gen craps out, 21 lb and very quiet.
Anyone have recommendations for places to buy the Honda at good prices?
Richard,
There's no such thing. They are high priced anywhere and everywhere even used. Sometimes they are marked down ever so slightly but expect to pay the most for the Honda's.
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The 100w Solar set up from HF keeps my bus batteries charged up.As a matter of fact ,most of the older Motor Homes only used a 55 watt solar panel .My old Dream had one of those and it did a great job keeping the batteries topped off.Only thing was they kept the battery compartment corroded up all the time!!!
Quote from: richard5933 on February 08, 2018, 09:20:00 AMAnyone have recommendations for places to buy the Honda at good prices?
If you are anywhere near Quartzsite there was a set of honda 2000's with the parallel cable for $1000 on buy/sale/trade. A feller could buy the set and keep one sell the other and make half or more of your money back. Would be a good investment.
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Aside from our 6.5 kw Onan, we have an 800 watt super quiet Power Source Genny bought on Amazon for under $300 new. It powers a 40 amp charger which we can boon dock on indefinitely at less than a gallon of gas consumption in 8 hr run time.
Northern Tool runs sells on the Honda from time to time with discounts around 200 bucks off the 2000 and 100 buck off on the 1000.I really cannot see that much difference in the Honda and Yamaha generators myself the Honda is a lot more sensitive than a Yamaha I have found out the hard way
Not quite as small as the Honda 2000, but I just discovered the Harbor Freight Predator 3500 watt generator. It looks like it's only about $725. Reviews are pretty good from what I see, excellent if you figure it's a HF item. Downside is the extra weight, but the upside is that it's big enough to run an a/c in a pinch.
Anyone have any knowledge about these? I've been contemplating getting one of the Honda 2000 units to use when I don't want to shake the bus with the 12.5kw diesel unit, especially when it's just to charge batteries. But, the 3500 Predator looks like an option.
Your best buy out there is the Champion those great generators I have a friend that has one it just keeps going they have a 3 year warranty I think he paid around 450 bucks for a 2000 w inverter type and same db as the Honda
for the amount of time I will need it I was looking at the champion and the wen unit as well both have very good reviews
the wen looks like it has the same engine as the 2000 yamaha in it and at that price like on guy put it you could get 2 units with the cable 2 x the watts for the price of a honda or yamaha
https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-2000-Watt-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-56200i/205825829 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-2000-Watt-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-56200i/205825829)
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/champion-2000w-stackable-portable-inverter-generator (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/champion-2000w-stackable-portable-inverter-generator)
still looking
Dave
How are they for parts like a voltage regulator, or ignition coil?
I have owned a Champion 7000 w for over 6 years we ran it 24 hours a day building a restaurant it has 3800 hours and it is starting to use a little oil now but never had to replace any type parts on it
My luck is some part goes bad after warranty expires and they are unobtanium.
;D I know I bought a new H/F and when it scattered parts and oil over the parking lot the 1st week I decided I needed to go in a different direction and Costco had the Champion on sell for 400 bucks so I gave it a shot and it has worked well
I believe the Champion generators are also Chinese. They sell them at Costco. I would just buy the HF with the 2 year extended warranty. Any engine can blow up, even a new Honda.
Clifford probably got the oil and gas reversed when he got ready to start it.lol
There have been reports of this happening. Read reviews. Quite a few are extremely satisfied though. See if you can buy the extended warranty after purchase before 90 days is up. My experience with extended warranty from them only lasts till item craps out. Then they replace item, no questions asked, but you have to buy another extended warranty. Still, I've been happy with 95 percent of my purchases from then. Their gas engines usually have specific break in procedures. Short cut them at your peril.
One common on the small ones is that they aren't quite as quiet as advertised or db rating varies on same item. I bought a Honda eu3000is a few years back, which I use around the house little, so I don't have personal experience with a Predator generator, but would not hesitate to try one. Especially at their prices. If Costco is anything like Sam's Club, what brand item they carry today will change next week.
Here is reviews on one of theirs on Amazon. As with many products, happy and sad buyers, just like Harbor Freight, and probably Honda.
https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-41537-Discontinued/product-reviews/B0056BYQP8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-41537-Discontinued/product-reviews/B0056BYQP8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1)
About 10 years ago I needed a 7500 watt generator and Costco was selling the PowerBoss generators 13hp Honda engines and possibly American made 7500 watt generator heads. These were easy pull start models for $899. The first one I bought wouldn't run anything greater than a 100 watt light bulb, so I took it back and got another one and it worked fine. The Honda muffler was very quiet as compared to the Champion 7500 watt genset that would wake up the dead.
Is everyone still talking about generators just for charging batteries or has this changed to what gen they run for their coach? I'm not trying to be smart, I was wondering if I should keep a small gen with me b/c my diesel gen is connected to main fuel tank and obviously can run just about everything. (I think I can only run 2 of the 3 A/Cs) but what it doesn't charge are my starter batteries.
I think I can get away with 5-6 starts without recharging starter batteries before I'm out of juice. So if I ever got close, I could run that small generator and connect my battery charger to my starter battery. The way my starter batts are set up is I have 2. When the bus runs, it only charges one of them so I have a battery analysis recharger connected to the second one which I plug in when I'm connected to power.
In fact, in another thread I was talking about dry camping. The starter batteries are really my only major concern. I wish my diesel gen had a plug I could run a cord from that to my battery charger.
The topic drifted to brands of generators, but stayed on topic. I don't know what you have going, but you say you are concerned about your start batteries. You say they are good for 5-6 starts before they get weak. And your bus engine only charges one of the two start batteries. And you wish you could plug in a charger for your start batteries?
Okay, I'm guessing you have a 24v starter and only a 12v alternator on the bus engine. So, I have both a 12v and a 24v alternator (s), along with a Trace inverter/charger running off a diesel genset or engine alternator
I also have a 120v outlet in the battery compartment with a 10 amp 24v smart charger.
What do you need?
Quote from: Geoff on February 14, 2018, 11:59:08 AM
The topic drifted to brands of generators, but stayed on topic. I don't know what you have going, but you say you are concerned about your start batteries. You say they are good for 5-6 starts before they get weak. And your bus engine only charges one of the two start batteries. And you wish you could plug in a charger for your start batteries?
Okay, I'm guessing you have a 24v starter and only a 12v alternator on the bus engine. So, I have both a 12v and a 24v alternator (s), along with a Trace inverter/charger running off a diesel genset or engine alternator
I also have a 120v outlet in the battery compartment with a 10 amp 24v smart charger.
What do you need?
Sorry I just don't have the lingo and I can't easily walk out to see exactly what I have b/c I keep the bus in a storage lot. I think what I really need and I cannot for the life of me remember what the name of it is but its used to recharge both starter batteries when the engine runs. I was told that it's pretty expensive, I think it connects to both batteries. But it's never been an issue since I'm 99.9% hooked into power when we go camping.
I have a charger connected to the 2nd battery but it only works when I'm hooked into power. (I plug it into an outlet in my bay) So when I saw this topic, I wondered if I too should buy a small generator just for the times where I might be in trouble with starting. Like I mentioned the other day, we are going to Talladega for 4 days. We can run normal house power no problem with the diesel generator but I potentially could run into issues with starting. Especially if the wife gets pissed about my leveling ability and has me start it up so I can adjust the blocks
Quote from: Branderson on February 14, 2018, 01:22:37 PM
Sorry I just don't have the lingo and I can't easily walk out to see exactly what I have b/c I keep the bus in a storage lot. I think what I really need and I cannot for the life of me remember what the name of it is but its used to recharge both starter batteries when the engine runs. I was told that it's pretty expensive, I think it connects to both batteries. But it's never been an issue since I'm 99.9% hooked into power when we go camping.
I have a charger connected to the 2nd battery but it only works when I'm hooked into power. (I plug it into an outlet in my bay) So when I saw this topic, I wondered if I too should buy a small generator just for the times where I might be in trouble with starting. Like I mentioned the other day, we are going to Talladega for 4 days. We can run normal house power no problem with the diesel generator but I potentially could run into issues with starting. Especially if the wife gets pissed about my leveling ability and has me start it up so I can adjust the blocks
You might be talking about a battery isolator, but that is usually used to charge the house batteries along with the chassis batteries when the engine is running. If you have two start batteries and only one is charging, then I'd wonder if they are connected to the alternator properly. Not sure what bus you have, but on our 4106 (12v system) there were two 12v start batteries set up in parallel and they both charged from the engine alternator. Our current bus is a 4108 (24v system) and it's set up with two 12v start batteries in series which also both charged from the engine alternator.
You can charge your start batteries from your house battery charger using something like the Xantrex Echo Charger (or another type of battery-to-battery charger) which would send a charge to the start batteries whenever your house batteries are charging.
I think that the original topic was more about having a small gennie for the purpose of topping off the batteries. We will have about 775aH of house batteries charging from a 70-amp charger. Running the Perkins diesel to power a 12.5kw generator is really overkill for this purpose, especially when the batteries get nearly full. That's why I see having a smaller gennie to be advantageous. Of course, it's also handy in an emergency or to run our block heater on really cold mornings if we cannot get the main generator going.
This thread is right up my alley. We decided against a diesel genset. There are days I regret this, but 90% of the time, I don't. Here's what we did and why:
We bought twin Honda EU3000is generators. We also purchased the parallel cables and tied them together. I had my electrician wire them into our coach so they provide power to each leg on our panel. If I want to just run one generator it will provide power to both legs of the panel. If I need more watts I start the other one and double my power. They both have an "eco mode" switch so I have basically five power configurations:
1. Single genset in eco mode
2. Single genset in full throttle mode.
3. Dual gensets eco mode
4. Dual gensets one in eco one full throttle
5. Dual gensets both full throttle.
This allows me to absolutely fine tune how much power I need and thus save fuel when I can. When I need them both to scream and give me all they've got, I can do that. When I just need one of them to idle along for lights, pump, and fridge only, it will run 24 hours on 3 gal of fuel. No joke. I've done it several times. This configuration gives me two gensets too so if one dies for some reason I still have power from the other one until I can get the dead one repaired. Automatic redundancy. They are amazingly quiet and have electric start. Once I install an extended fuel tank system and remote start, I'll be in generator heaven.
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How do you prevent that setup from stopping when on a angle or going around a sharp corner ? I have never saw a Honda that wouldn't die when you made a sharp corner except the RV type they no longer make because the oil sensor would shut it down
Scott
when you are ready I used the honda 7000I remote start from them and it always worked every time old school with a hard wired switch I put inside by the driver seat
I have a remote on a key fob for one of my other genne,s and it only works 50 % of the time it is a pain in the as$
I like the idea of a small light genne ( 2000 w ) for some kind of back up and when not on the pole just like the subject saz to finish charge my house battery bank
http://www.generator-line.com/TwoWireRemoteControls.html (http://www.generator-line.com/TwoWireRemoteControls.html)
Dave
I have never felt the need for a "small genset to top off my house batteries". I have a quiet 8kW 3 clyinder Isuzu diesel genset that we run every morning to heat water, make coffee, and run the microwave. It tops off the batteries while we do this and uses little fuel. Same thing at night. The inverter takes care of our needs the rest of the time. That is our camping mode.
Quote from: sledhead on February 16, 2018, 05:48:37 AM
Scott
when you are ready I used the honda 7000I remote start from them and it always worked every time old school with a hard wired switch I put inside by the driver seat
I have a remote on a key fob for one of my other genne,s and it only works 50 % of the time it is a pain in the as$
I like the idea of a small light genne ( 2000 w ) for some kind of back up and when not on the pole just like the subject saz to finish charge my house battery bank
http://www.generator-line.com/TwoWireRemoteControls.html (http://www.generator-line.com/TwoWireRemoteControls.html)
Dave
That's quite a mark-up on those remotes. I just installed a remote start/stop on my Honda motor air compressor in my service truck. The two channel remote came with two key fob's. I have used it 60 feet away and it works great. Cost me $10.67 free shipping on eBay.
Quote from: Geoff on February 16, 2018, 05:55:07 AM
I have never felt the need for a "small genset to top off my house batteries". I have a quiet 3 clyinder Isuzu diesel genset that we run every morning to heat water, make coffee, and run the microwave. It tops off the batteries while we do this and uses little fuel. Same thing at night. The inverter takes care of our needs the rest of the time. That is our camping mode.
I don't get running a generator for 24 hrs a day unless Scott has no backup like a battery bank or inverter,those little generators don't have that long of a life in hours ran
Not sure Cliff. The two 2000's in our bus run whenever the bus does. 17 years and 114000 miles. Just sparkplugs twice and oil changes.
I bought Hondas since the 80's and never had 1 last over 4000 hrs but mine were always under a constant load and were serviced one a week.The 4000 hrs wasn't a problem since it was twice the hrs I was getting from the Briggs or other engines powered generators
Quote from: Geoff on February 16, 2018, 05:55:07 AM
I have never felt the need for a "small genset to top off my house batteries". I have a quiet 8kW 3 clyinder Isuzu diesel genset that we run every morning to heat water, make coffee, and run the microwave. It tops off the batteries while we do this and uses little fuel. Same thing at night. The inverter takes care of our needs the rest of the time. That is our camping mode.
pretty much same here.
I can see your point about the diesel genne mine is a 12.5 k power tech with a 3 cylinder isuzu in a hush box and I am sure it is good on fuel on say 1/4 load but it sure seams like over kill . for the 4 days we had no pole power I ran it two times a day for about 2 hrs and once a day for 3 hrs and 1/2 of the time it was just to charge the batteries . plus I have a decibel meter and outside at 15 ' away it is about 68 db so not that bad on sound but nothing like a honda . on my 7000 i honda inverter genne I have never had it that loud maybe 60 db was the loudest at 15 ' and just thought it would be nice to have a small back up genne that would use way less gas and a 2000 watt genne at 50 lbs and a 2 gal. gas can it would not take up much space . we are in Florida right now the big thing is LOAD pick up trucks and LOAD bikes so a little piece and quiet is nice
Dave
I also enjoy a little "piece" once in a while, I hope it is quiet.
Quote from: luvrbus on February 16, 2018, 07:09:54 AM
I bought Hondas since the 80's and never had 1 last over 4000 hrs but mine were always under a constant load and were serviced one a week.The 4000 hrs wasn't a problem since it was twice the hrs I was getting from the Briggs or other engines powered generators
What gives out first on the Honda's, the engine or the generator head? It seems like on the diesel generators, it's the generator head that wears out first after about 8000 hrs. It still seems like a good diesel setup is more cost effective long term. Scott gets by on 6000 watts, but not everybody can do that. Having a small quiet generator might be a good idea as an emergency backup, but it has the problem of introducing another fuel into the coach. If only there were a small quiet diesel generator.
Getting back to business, you can make a diesel genset quiet. But it takes a super quiet soundbox, and more than one muffler to do it. And the extra muffler creates back pressure, which makes a lot of carbon buildup. I don't mind the hum of my generator. And I even enjoy the RPM increase from an added load. It is quiet, and music to my ears. I cannot say the same about gas generators.
Figure the math. A little Honda lasting about 3500 hours saves how much fuel and 3500 hours on the diesel generator? I'm sure it would pay for more than one Honda, plus it could be useful when batteries are dead, including generator, and other uses around the house of whatever. I wouldn't get one you couldn't easily carry. Or get one from Harbor Freight and every time extended warranty runs out, get another and sell used on Craigslist.Or with synthetic oil and good maintenance, maybe, just maybe they could last 3500 hours.
Who couldn't find a 1000 or 2000 watt small generator useful. Or 4-600 watt daisy chained......
Does anyone know off the top of their head how many watts it takes to run a Webasto DBW 2010 with it's water pump? That is the only reason I might want a small gasoline inverter generator instead of running my 8kW diesel genset. The Webasto will run my four golf cart batteries down in 4-5 hours when I'm trying to sleep! So will I need a 2,000 watt or a 3500 watt generator?
The Webasto DBW 2010 repair manuals says 60 watts for the unit and either 25 or 30 watts depending on the model of pump. You should easily be able to use a 2,000 watt generator.
Can you use a auto start on those tiny generators it would be a PITA to get out of bed to start 1 every 3 hours to charge the batteries,of course if you left it running all night that would not be a problem
Quote from: luvrbus on February 17, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
Can you use a auto start on those tiny generators it would be a PITA to get out of bed to start 1 every 3 hours to charge the batteries,of course if you left it running all night that would not be a problem
I've seen a few videos online where people have converted the little gennies to remote start. Involves adding a choke pull-off, but seems to work okay. Worth looking into if you need it.
How large of a charger are you planning to use on the generator?
I looked at the specs on the HF inverter generators. The 3500 watt one weighs 100 lbs, the 2k 57lbs. and will only run 5.5 hours on a tank @ 50% load. I would be running a 40 amp 3 stage charger.
I think I'll just program the Trace inverter/charger I have to auto-start the diesel genset at low DC voltage. Easier than messing with an inverter charger.
Love the auto starts generators best thing since sliced bread
They make a remote start kit for Honda eu3000is. Some outfits also make custom remote start kits for the EU 2000. Apparently comes with a starter among other items.
Big difference in a remote start and the auto start on generators I never saw a auto start on tiny generators is why I asked and was wondering if they made one
Cliff: when I first bought them three years ago, they did just that. Annoying. So I learned to slightly overfill the oil (only slightly). Never ever have that problem anymore.
Dave: yeah I think I'll wire in an actual wired remote start setup since the gennies are so close to the drivers seat. No point in going wireless. I'll even run en extension on the eco throttle switches too.
As for the generator usage for us: we don't have a battery bank yet nor an inverter so these babies run 100% duty when not on the pole. Cliff I have over 4000 hours on these units already and they are still humming along with only oil changes. Haven't even changed the spark plugs yet. I run a can of sea foam through them about an hour before turning them off when we do park and connect to power. So that seafoam gas is what's sitting in the carb for the storage periods. This keeps things from gumming up and hopefully helps to keep carbon deposits down to a minimum. If one of them fails catastrophically, I'll post it here as a data point, but so far they have been perfectly reliable.
My simple math conservatively is saying we have 6,000 hours on them already. I'm planning on adding an inverter this summer which will cut down on genset usage dramatically for us.
Here's a very cool thread on another site that shows a guy tearing down his EU3000is after 6000 hours of use. He thinks it died prematurely due to using propane and the higher temps from that. I think the consensus was that using gasoline they would
Last much longer.
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146258
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That is strange most propane fired engines outlast the gasoline engines ,lol do you ever shut those babies down 4000 hrs is a lot of hrs for the short time you have owned those,that would be 80 oil changes or 160 oil changes on the 2.you are due for some plugs also you are way past the 200 hr plug change maybe 300 hrs depending on which manual you read , you got your money from those plugs,you can count the blinks for the hours reading
on the 2000 w genne's they are pull start to keep the price , weight , size down . so I guess you could install a start motor , a battery on one ? my plan was to charge up the batteries through the day like a solar panel would and move the genne to a spot that would not offend anyone . my thought was when I knew that I would not be on the pole I could bring it and a 2 gal. gas can and put them in the box of my pick up truck with a big chain to lock it up
Dave
Quote from: luvrbus on February 17, 2018, 07:59:20 PM
Big difference in a remote start and the auto start on generators I never saw a auto start on tiny generators is why I asked and was wondering if they made one
The small Champion generator at Costco comes with a keyless remote start. I bought a wireless remote start/stop for my Honda powered air compressor on eBay for $10.67 free shipping from China. Two remote fob's. The unit I bought doesn't work the choke, you would need a three channel remote control for that along with an electric plunger solenoid to work the choke. On/off works for me, I have to check the fuel and oil anyway, after the first start it is warmed up and I don't need the choke. The remote saves me a lot of time and effort when working.
Quote from: luvrbus on February 18, 2018, 05:37:38 AM
That is strange most propane fired engines outlast the gasoline engines ,lol do you ever shut those babies down 4000 hrs is a lot of hrs for the short time you have owned those
I agree, propane results in a loss of power, but burns much cleaner i.e. less carbon buildup and cleaner oil.
On my Onan Emerald III 6.5 gasoline, when run on propane it is rated at 6.3.