I aired up the bus with shop air to check for leaks after I moved the brake pedal valve, now I have air coming out the exhaust on the bottom of the valve >:( It leaks with the parking brake valve on or off, if I press the brake pedal it stops for a few seconds then continues to leak. It didn't leak before I changed the lines and it also din't start to leak right away while I was airing up the bus. I'm thinking that when I had things apart and cleaned the valve witch I did plug all the ports, that I got dirt in the valve. What would be the best way to clean it out? disassemble it? or could I flush something through it? Now as soon as I start putting air to the bus it starts leaking.
Thanks Jason
Jason try as the air is coming out to tap it with a piece of wood on the bottom of the valve and sometimes they blow it out or close if it is stuck open. Are you sure you got the lines back on in the correct order. I have done that before.
Dave, I marked the lines and most of them would only go on one way but anything is possible. It didn't leak at first until I pushed the parking brake valve off. I'll try the tapping on it tomorrow, actually the second time I aired it up it didn't leak quite as much as the first time.
Jasom
I got to mess with it a little bit this afternoon and when I put my hand over the bottom of the valve where the air is coming out and block it off it starts to apply the brakes I did tap on it with a block of wood and kind of slowed the leak down but now I'm wondering if I would have gotten a line mixed up
Jason
Can you confirm brake action at the wheels?
Something won't move right somewhere, if lines are messed up?
You say you cleaned the valve? What did you do to it? This may be the problem, something didn't survive the cleaning?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I could definitely see the front brakes working and when I said I cleaned the valve when I removed it from the bus I plugged the lines and clean the grease off in the parts washer
Thanks Jason
Yep agree with BW. Check that every brake is working or slacks are moving when brakes applied. You could also remove the supply line and shoot a little air tool oil( like we use in our air nailers) in it. Put back on and try airing up again and push brake a few time while airing.
I will confirm tomorrow if the back brakes are working once I get someone to help me. I may try the air tool oil, just wasn't sure if that would hurt anything on down the line. I honestly don't think I got the lines switched but anythings possible.
Jason
Just a few squirts of air oil is good for it every so often for sticky valves. Alcohol not so much, just dries out rubber bits.
Jason, that a E-6 dual circuit valve check the gauge to see if both tanks are air up the same if not you have the supply and service side lines mix up,with the front brakes working I would guess you have the rear service and supply line plumbed wrong lol BTDT
Thanks Dave and Cliff, I will try these out tomorrow, I don't think I got the supply wrong because it was the biggest line and I didn't change the fittings on the valve just got ride of the old copper line and replaced with plastic It's the one with the shinny brass T the other black line goes to the front brakes.
Jason
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi690.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv270%2Fcccabinetry%2F20180101_164500_zpslgs4looz.jpg&hash=56cbf9c7b5538cd7d6a9368310f82819a0a50ec8) (http://s690.photobucket.com/user/cccabinetry/media/20180101_164500_zpslgs4looz.jpg.html)
You should have 2 supply lines a primary and a secondary
Okay, Not sure witch one would be the secondary, It would have to be one of the green lines, Does it go into the valve on the same section as the primary?
I tried some air tool oil through the valve and no such luck it is still leaking, also confirmed that the back brakes are engaging when I push the brake pedal, Does any one know if this is a E-6 valve? I was at my local truck supply store and they had a E-6 and it looked just like it. MCI wants almost $350.00 for one >:(
Jason
looks like e-6. The lower portion should be secondary. Just replaced mine and substituted nylon lines for most of the copper ones. Worked through compartment under driver and a 4x6 hole above front bumper to change it. Major pita. After finishing, I discovered the was a 18x30inch removable panel in ceiling of spare tire compartment. Not mentioned in manual. Funny complete access with panel removed. Damn!
https://www.finditparts.com/products/2160460/bendix-286171n?srcid=CHL01SCL010-Npla-Dmdt-Gusa-Svbr-Mmuu-K2160460-L21&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiLSR2_bn2AIVGUwNCh0J4Q2REAQYAiABEgKgwPD_BwE (https://www.finditparts.com/products/2160460/bendix-286171n?srcid=CHL01SCL010-Npla-Dmdt-Gusa-Svbr-Mmuu-K2160460-L21&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiLSR2_bn2AIVGUwNCh0J4Q2REAQYAiABEgKgwPD_BwE)
You can also Google e-6 at bendix site.
Did you have any leaks before you started? You may still just have the same problem. If so, it could be a leaking dd3 diaphragm or leaking inversion valve or check valve.
Chessie
I didn't bring it home but I had a picture on my phone that we compared to and it sure looked the same. The only thing I wasn't sure is does the parking brake for the DD3s have anything to do with going though this valve?
Jason
On the MCI site the are showing a E-10 as a alternate valve?
http://partsstore.mcicoach.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&productId=120283&catalogId=10052&categoryId=&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn=&storeId=10051 (http://partsstore.mcicoach.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&productId=120283&catalogId=10052&categoryId=&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn=&storeId=10051)
You can have air feeding back from the items I mentioned.
Sorry chessie I didn't see the bottom of your post, I had no leaks prior to this, It all started after I cleaned and reinstalled the valve, I also see where Cliff said it was a E-6 valve. I will probably just replace it than I know whether it is the problem or not.
Jason
I looked at the photo Jason yours has been replaced with the E10 only difference is the E10 has the taller upper housing for the coil spring which yours has, OEM valve was the E6 on the 8 and early 9's tghe E10 is supoosed to be a better valve
Thanks Cliff, I'll check at my local store and see if they have one, I see MCI wants $852.00 for the E-10 assembly :o
Jason
Quote from: jmblake on January 20, 2018, 06:38:40 PM
Thanks Cliff, I'll check at my local store and see if they have one, I see MCI wants $852.00 for the E-10 assembly :o
Jason
There are several different models of a E10 can you find the metal tag on a bolt ?
I don't remember seeing a tag anywhere on the valve, Is the difference something internal or something I can tell by looking at the outside?
The top flange mounting and port locations is the difference
Even though some parts of semi brakes are different, this may be of help to you.
http://precisionrebuilders.com/prob1.html (http://precisionrebuilders.com/prob1.html)
Hello, I had a similar leak on a 1990 102C3. I changed the foot brake valve and it did not fix it. It turned out to be the emergency brake valve. That was much easier and cheaper to replace than the foot valve.
Bandsaw
If you look up bendix e6 and e10 brake valve in one sentence, you will download a pdf. with differences between the two. They definitely look different from each other.Also describes operation.
https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/061-286171X.html (https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/061-286171X.html)
https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/061-101100X.html (https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/061-101100X.html)
If you label and disconnect all lines except the supply lines, which there should be two, if there is still air leaking out the bottom of ports to feed the other items, brakes, throttle, etc, then the valve is at fault. It will only expel air to the delivery ports when treadle is depressed. Make sure the unused supply ports are still plugged when you do this.
Thanks for all the responses, I haven't had time to work on it, but hopefully over the weekend I can get it figured out.
Thanks Jason
If you look closely at the ports, they have slightly raised sup and del letters. They aren't exactly in same location on ports. Look closely. Supply ports are 180° across from each other and other two are delivery ports, again 180° apart. Primary section is on top and secondary is bottom half. Secondary delivery goes to front brake relay valve. Primary delivery goes to rear brake relay valve. Other supply ports are either plugged, receive air supply from air tank, send air line to dash pressure gauge, or brake like switches, or low air pressure switches. There should be only one delivery port in use in both upper and lower halves. The other upper and lower del port should be plugged.
Hope this helps.
Late brain engagement...
Yes, a DD3 system can fool you into blaming the foot valve for a leak.
If there is a leak in the right places in the parking circuit, the leak gets into the service brake side, and then out the foot valve exhaust (or the rear brake relay exhaust, depending)
I have not thought about the specifics in a long time, and all the bus manuals are packed remote to me...
Bevans? How's your memory for some trouble shooting? Better to investigate and save messing with wrong part...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Thanks Chessie and BW Hopefully over the weekend I can do some more investigating, I honestly think it has something stuck in it from cleaning it up since I had no leaking beforehand, but anything is possible.
Thanks Jason
Correct troubleshooting strategy!
The last thing a busnut touched has a high probability of being the cause.
The rest? Bus demons, karma and God lightening up his default "fool protections" as the busnut becomes more educated... There is no such thing as coincidence in the life of a busnut...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Only takes a grain of sand to cause you problems on air valves
Once you verify if brake treadle application valve is or isn't the problem, and all the other lines are in correct location then you can delve into the parking brake conglomeration that goes with dd3's. Mine has three inversion valves, single and double check valves and connecting lines associated with push-pull parking valve. A real cluster......
Update, Problem solved ;D, As per chessies advice I took all the lines off other than the supply lines and it still leaked through, so with the brake lines off I removed the supply lines and added some air tool oil in each and reinstalled then added shop air to the bus and worked the brake pedal several times and just let the air blow through the valve, and after doing this several times it stopped leaking. Put everything back together and it's not leaking and holding air ;D So it must have had a piece of dirt either from me cleaning it or when I was changing the fittings around get in there and make it stick. Now I can get back to working on the generator slide out. Thanks everyone for all the tips and advice.
Jason
Cool beans. Free and easy fix!!
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