What is the best way to tap into my main fuel tank for my diesel generator? If drilling and tapping a hole how do you not get any shavings into the tank? Thanks for any suggestions.
Jason
You already have two taps,,one to the engine and one return from the engine.>>>Dan
As you drill then new hole, put some heavy grease on the bit end just before it drills through the tank.
It worked pretty well for me.
I have 5 additional holes in my diesel tank. Supply and return for the Webasto, ditto for the generator, and the 5th....well, let's just say measure twice, drill once. ;D
Dan, I read in the archives not to tap into those lines ???
Thanks for the tip Stormcloud, also if I tap threads into the tank how do I get a pickup tube on the inside ???
Jason
I used steel brake lines for the dip tubes, and secured to top of fuel tank with JB Weld. Brake line bends real easy for corners, fuel line clamps onto the brake line easily.
Drill and tap hole for compression fitting of the size tubing you are going to use. Drill out stop in fitting permitting line to go clear through. Install fitting into tank and slide tubing in to desired depth. You can add some curvature as necessary. Do Not put clear to bottom, inserting only down 2/3 rds or less. One to void sucking up dirt and two to running tank out of fuel for main engine. Tighten flare nut once you are satisfied to location. I would then add a coupler or check valve to tubing just outside of tank for easy removal.keep in mind that most tanks aren't that thick and a fitting may not be that rigid, so it should have some support upon exit of line. A soldered bung would be best but may require removing tank or talent with a soldering torch and empty tank.
Thanks for the suggestions, Never thought of drilling out the fitting to let the tube pass through. also found this but requires a pretty big hole
http://www.fueltankparts.com/aluminum-bolt-in-pickup-tube-return-assembly.html (http://www.fueltankparts.com/aluminum-bolt-in-pickup-tube-return-assembly.html)
Are there no block-off plates on the face of the tank somewhere?
remove plate, install new lines in the plate and return to position?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
There should be a plate on top to install the pickup and return line,the tank on a MCI is so thin there is no tapping with out a a weld on bung for the lines.The shavings are no big deal they fall to the bottom of the tank and stay because the pickup for the fuel system is 2 inches above the bottom of the tank.You drain the fuel tank you see all kinds of crap from rubber gaskets to nuts and bolts
BW and Cliff I don't have any extra plates any where I could see, On the top all I can see is the strap that holds the tank in. I wasn't sure how thick the tank was so maybe something like in the link I posted would be the best way, it has a plate that goes on the inside as long as you don't drop it into the tank :o
Jason
When I dropped my fuel tank to tap into it to add a fuel gauge, I discovered it had two 5 bolt access plates. I removed one and dropped in the fuel gauge sending unit with a perfect fit (of course with the proper height sending unit ordered). With the other 5 bolt access plate, I removed it then made my own Diesel generator pickup, with the pickup tube about 2 inches shy of the bottom of the tank so the generator will run out of fuel before the big engine. And also drilled a return. This home made pickup has been successful running the generator for 23 years and over 1,500 hours. Good Luck, TomC
I've had both of my bus's fuel tanks out so I'm pretty familiar with them. I even patched several pin hole leaks in my current coach tank using JB weld with the tank removed. I can vouch that the metal is indeed super thin. No way on earth you'll be able to tap any threads. FYI, if you have a place you can pump your fuel off to, it's not hard to remove the tank if you want to. I've now done it several times and it's really pretty easy.
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If you are intent on doing this, I recommend removing tank. Thoroughly clean it while you have it out, have bung installed in desired location. Verify proper resistance change of movement of fuel sending unit before reinstall. Clean and paint exterior of tank and straps.With a nice clean tank, you'll go through fewer fuel filters. Cliffs right about all the crap lying in bottom like sludge. I used about a gallon of laquer thinner and about 3 cups of screened 3/8 diameter limestone to clean tank. Rocked tank around till stones cleaned it up nice and clean. Then flushed with some laundry detergent and hot water,repeat, and then rinse with hot water and drain and allow to completely dry. OR you could take somewhere to have it steam cleaned, making sure they are thorough. GM Buffalo series use a long logitudinal tank with baffles every two feet, so it is difficult to steam clean.
I must have been lucks. My MCI 7 had a 3 or 4 inch plate on top in the front which was easy to get to. We took it off and drilled two holes through which we put fittings for the fuel pick up and return. We left the pick up tube 12 inches above the bottom, be sure to do that, so we could not run the bus out of fuel. When the gen runs out of fuel we still have 44 gallons left in the tank. I had previously pulled my tank due to some leaks and had it cleaned, repaired and then I painted it. Good luck.
There are baffles and the float inside the tank, if you see a weld dimple, try not to drill there, tom...
what ever you decide, i would build the pickup tube more than 2 inches from the bottom..more like 4 inches.
hopefully the tank is taller than flatter.
most prime engine pickup tubes are set to leave at least 20 gallons unusable. iirc.
Scott, I don't really want to pull my tank just for this, I don't want to open another can of worms right now LOL. I was looking and if I take the filler cap off I might be able to get a bulkhead fitting in right beside it, if I can squeeze my fingers in there or make something to hold it till I can get the nut on it. I will defiantly leave 4" - 6" off the bottom.
Thanks Jason
At the minimum, there should be a plate for where the fuel sender gets installed?
Do you have some pictures of this phenomenon?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Jason, you should pull the exterior siding off the fuel tank bay. There may be a pipe plug at the lower part of the tank that you can put a 90 degree fitting on and run straight up to supply your generator. It will not interfere with the siding but you will have to keep an eye on your fuel level running the genset.
BW here is a picture of what I got to work with.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi690.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv270%2Fcccabinetry%2F20180108_210037_zpsqmtoitil.jpg&hash=27770f3facdf67a9665d15d36b82104c41a1b775) (http://s690.photobucket.com/user/cccabinetry/media/20180108_210037_zpsqmtoitil.jpg.html)
Geoff I looked down in there and there is a plug at the very bottom, but I think I would get all the junk on the bottom of the tank ??? I do mostly try and keep the tank full very seldom do I let it get below a qtr tank
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi690.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv270%2Fcccabinetry%2F20180108_210310_zpsioiluhee.jpg&hash=2573c6e1d59db56025293c0323876332c92db8f8) (http://s690.photobucket.com/user/cccabinetry/media/20180108_210310_zpsioiluhee.jpg.html)
Thanks Jason
Whew! ok, that's a normal tank.
You have the aux fuel tank in the bay?
The centre high attachment is the vent to the aux tank.
You can re-work that vent pipe, get pick-up and return fittings fabricated into it, the vent won't care if it is somewhat obstructed when you are done. Note that the pick-up needs to go on an angle so it doesn't drop down blocking the fuel fill.
On coaches with no aux tank, that position has a simple round plate bolted in place.
The other piece, with wires attached, is the fuel sender. You could investigate whether you could squeeze the fittings into that plate without interfering with the sender movement.
Deciding the depth to send the pick-up is for you to choose. The return just needs to be into the tank and can dribble from up high.
Cut the pick-up a little shorter than the engine pick-up, to defend against stupidity, or boldly send it close to the bottom.
I will caution to not cut it too short, every inch of fuel in the bottom part of the tank is a lot of gallons, and you will suck air before you wish you didn't, and still have plenty to go for a drive. The calculation to find US gallons is length x width x height in inches, divided by 231.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Connect a regulated air source to the tank vent and pressurize the tank (no more than about 5 psi is needed). This will blow all your shaving OUT instead of allowing them to drop in the tank.
Jim excellent idea. Never tried that one. You always have good advice how in the heck did you get 3 ignores? LOL
OMG - How'd you get ignored by 8! LOL
I thought I would chime in because I recently removed my tank and cleaned it and had to create a new pick up tube for the main line. I removed the center "Curved" vent on mine. There is also a float vent just behind the front raised area, you can prob reach it by hand. My other suggestion is to take that main door off, it is just two bolts on the top side and two pins that will slide out in the bottom, its not fun working through that little flap door! My genny lines are just below my main lines, already installed when I bought the bus.
I cut a 3.375" little round plate out of 1/4" steel with a plazma and brazed on some HD fittings, of course you'll need a return line to but here is a pic, you can take a look at how I removed the tank here (PITA): http://busnut.com/forum/index.php/topic,3115.msg34781.html#msg34781 (http://busnut.com/forum/index.php/topic,3115.msg34781.html#msg34781)
Oh, and make sure you use RTV for fuel, I think its like #2 or something
Quote from: Dave5Cs on January 08, 2018, 10:28:04 PM
Jim excellent idea. Never tried that one. You always have good advice how in the heck did you get 3 ignores? LOL
My safety officer (keep forgetting to advise safety glasses) and my wife are both on this board. My wife has two accounts.
That setup should be any problems for you Jason even if you still have the auxiliary tank you can have a spacer made to go under the vent with taps I have done it before,so you are dealing with a aluminum tank ? the magnetic drill bits wouldn't help you much drilling holes
Would I be able to tie the auxiliary tank vent into the one from the main tank with a T ? Or wouldn't that be a good idea
Jason
I was looking tonight and I think I have room to rotate the vent on the left a quarter turn clockwise and then put a T in and tie the center vent for the aux tank into it. That would leave me the center hole to put my pickup and return lines for the generator in. Is there any reason I couldn't tie the 2 vents together?
Jason
That should work Jason
Thanks Cliff, I think that's my simplest solution.
Jason
I think I got this figured out with the vent, so now a question about the pickup tube, should I put a screen on the tube like this?
https://www.mcmaster.com/#98115k42/=1b3q8wk (https://www.mcmaster.com/#98115k42/=1b3q8wk) and if so witch size screen 60 or 100?
Thanks Jason
I wouldn't want a screen on the pickup, especially since your tube will be 6 or 7 inches off bottom. Just another headache if it starts to plug over time and causes issues with generator. Plus, a pita to service. Better to only have fuel filter at engine to deal with.
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 13, 2018, 04:27:38 AMI wouldn't want a screen on the pickup, especially since your tube will be 6 or 7 inches off bottom. Just another headache if it starts to plug over time and causes issues with generator. Plus, a pita to service. Better to only have fuel filter at engine to deal with.
A bus's fuel system will draw fuel up from the tank, filter it, run a lot more fuel than the injector components need, and then cycle the extra fuel (the fuel not injected into the engine and burnt) back into the tank. This is for lubrication and cooling of the components actually on the engine. Since this fuel is filtered, the stuff in the tank is usually pretty clean. However, there is the issue that there will always be some level of Contaminants, Rust, Algae, and Particulates (also known as CRAP!) in every diesel fuel tank. I think Chessie is exactly right --- pull fuel from the tank without a hard-to-reach and service strainer on the pickup tube and install an inline filter at the generator.
There are filters for autmotive use with say a 5/16 opening for the pickup tube that can last forever. They are as big as a napkin folded in half .
If you are intent on installing a filter at end of pickup tube, make sure it is for diesel fuel use. Gasoline fuel filters in tank use a finer mesh and will have short life used in diesel fuel.Btdt.
here is my set up Jason
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r4DI89ag2LCv-9uuGI8gqPLq2dd5xhbd/view?usp=sharing
Then I covered it with a shiny protective shell ...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oecHazG8rqY28kx7gKuTqi4rtgwzO4bx/view?usp=sharing
The lines run forward in the cable tray and exit out to the old A/C condenser fan bay where I positioned (read shoehorned) my genny into.
Okay thanks for all the suggestions, I think I'll forget about the screen on the end of the pickup tube, I thought it was a good idea at the time lol.
Jim that's a nice setup that you did using the aux tank, I did think about using the aux tank then I looked in there and It would take me a week just to remove everything that is permanently mounted in front of the tank so I'm going to use my main tank.
Jason
I just went by the assumption that if I used the aux it would be another place any filings might remain before getting to the genny or coach motor filters or worse, to the engine(s) which would probably take me MORE than a week to fix. ;)