Hello All.
Well, I learned a lesson—but not without considerable pain to reinforce it. Gasoline really does go bad. A year ago I replaced the Yamaha ef3000iseb genny in my bus with a brand new model of the same ilk. Same rip snorting electron pushing device I had but with all the eco friendly junk like a charcoal canister and exhaust sniffer or something. I figured I was set for life. Not so. After only 24 hrs of metered use, the thing began surging at idle with wild fluctuations of rpm's and flashing red lights. It worked fine under load but I'll bet that wouldn't have lasted. Per the net, this apparently isn't all that uncommon regardless of the generator brand. The fix seems to be carb repair and gas tank cleaning.
I removed and dissembled the carb in which I found an amazing amount of varnish. I did a though cleaning of the float bowl and all the jets and emptied the tank. After reassembling the carb and adding fresh gas, the genny is purring like a kitten again!
Feeling good about my success with the Yamaha I decided to have a look see at the Powermate Genny on the pop up camper I tow with the bus Toad. I've only used the new PM once since I installed it about a year and a half ago. Damn thing wouldn't even start! I finally got it to run on ether—but only until the either ran out. This is where the pain comes in. I put the PM on a work bench next to where the Toad was parked and proceeded to vigorously pull the starter rope. With each pull the genny moved closer and closer to the Toad until it was just close enough so that a good yank on the rope brought my elbow into contact with the edge of the rain gutter on the Toad. The result was a new hole in my shirt and a new hole in my elbow and a really pissed off tendon.
The PM is a knock off of the Yamaha, about a third the cost and half the power and a tad bit noisier. The carb looks like a miniature of the Yamaha and had clogged up in all the same places. It too is again purring like a kitten.
Lesson learned (X2) : Look before you pull the starter rope; add fuel stabilizer to the gas.
Jack
(https://s26.postimg.org/pq4m2vcsp/20180103_115431.jpg).
(https://s26.postimg.org/ruoz3zh09/IMG_9444.jpg).
ethonol free gas definitely lasts longer than the crap with ethonol!
And that's exactly why I converted my emergences-only generator to propane. I hope to not need it more than once every few months, so gasoline even with Sta-Bil just won't work for me. On gasoline it started first pull every time, now on propane it starts third pull every time and seems to run quieter, and it definitely has a less smelly exhaust.
John
I try to run my bus diesel engine and my diesel genset under a load at least once a month for about 20 minutes to keep the cobwebs out of it. Also, I was always told that you should drain the gas out of your lawn mower carburetor and run the engine dry every fall before putting it away as it will gum up. This saves you some hassle in the long run. Not that I always did this, but that is what I was told. :D
Modern gas starts to loose octane rating in just a few months. I use stabil and starton in any gas that sits. Like Gary, I run mine under load for 30 min each month and shut off the fuel supply and run the carb dry.
Matt
Yes, I have heard of Stabil too. Another thing we did was to run the old snowmobile gas in the lawn mowers after we put them away for the summer before it went bad. It smoked quite a bit because it was mixed with oil, but it ran fine. :D
Lawnmowers only hold about a quart of fuel so we just dumped it out.
Just wondering how much of this still applies with today's formulations. Clearly, over the decades, fuel additives have improved a lot, so just curious how much of this is old tales and not indicative of the current state?
Jack like new Lawn morwers don't have a fuel shutoff. Anything gas I have for around the yard or construction , I cut the fuel line and insert a 1.00 plastic shutoff. Before i finish with that engined unit I simply turn off the shutoff and let it die. To start just turn it back on and start it. It leaves no fuel in the tank. If there is any fuel left I just turn it over and pour it out into the gas container and then let it die.
I got tired of that crap I use 100LL Avgas in all my gasoline equipment it cost about 5 bucks a gal (CA price) well worth it to me
I've had good performance using ethanol free gas with "Seafoam" added for the last ten years. I don't run equipment dry at the end of the season. Was told by a mechanic that the seals seem to suffer from drying out. Works for me.
Dennis
Don, todays 10% ethanol formulated gas is far worse than old non ethanol fomulations. The ethanol is a octane booster (pure ethanol is over 112 octane) and is mixed with a petroleum with around 85 octane. The trouble is that ethanol is very good at absorbing moisture from the air and as it does it quickly looses octane numbers. Ethanol also reacts poorly to aluminum, rubber, and many plastcis that may be in your fuel system.
Modern ethanol gas (e10) has caused millions of dollars of damage to engines and fuel systems in the marine industry and to industrial equipment powered by small gass engines.
Matt
Quote from: Beluga Bus on January 05, 2018, 06:46:48 PMDon, todays 10% ethanol formulated gas is far worse than old non ethanol fomulations.
Yep!
Is the only way to get non-ethanol gas through aviation or racing sources? I only this year started using premium in my gas blower and power washer. Next year step up. LOL
If you Google non ethanol gas stations, there are a couple of sites that list locations state by state. There probably aren't any in California as using leaded gas is probably a death penalty crime.
Hi-test [do they still call it that?] is always best. I start all my gensets every month and run them. I used to put Sta-bil in them but no longer. I'm thinking that cause me more issues than I would have had if I did nothing.
I do like this however: http://www.starbrite.com/startron (http://www.starbrite.com/startron)
That Starbrite works good it even takes the smell out of old gas, the small engine shops and H/D sell a gas now for small engine but the stuff cost you around 25 bucks a gal buying it in the qts lol to rich for me but still cheaper than paying a shop to clean a carb and tank
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 06, 2018, 03:57:25 AM
If you Google non ethanol gas stations, there are a couple of sites that list locations state by state. There probably aren't any in California as using leaded gas is probably a death penalty crime.
non ethonol is unleaded
pure gas, there's an app for this.
https://www.pure-gas.org/ (https://www.pure-gas.org/)
Long time ago in 50's and 60's on the farm our hay equipment with the air cooled Wisconsin 1 to 4 cylinders engines ran on White gas the same stuff you buy for Coleman stoves.
I believe it's nothing but Naphtha but we never had gumming or varnishing problems with the equipment from season to season using it
White gas= unleaded.. went from .13 a gallon to .35 when they changed the name on the pump...
Quote from: gg04 on January 07, 2018, 08:36:26 AMWhite gas= unleaded.. went from .13 a gallon to .35 when they changed the name on the pump...
Back when I was young (while the dinosaurs were still making crude), Amoco gas didn't have lead (or so they advertised) and it wasn't dyed and the "proof" that Amoco High Test was "better" was because it was clear and therefore more pure and clean and it must make more power, right??? Total advertising hogwash. So you could go to the Amoco station and get white gas for your car and the hardware store and get white gas for your Coleman lantern and they were NOT the same thing. A number of people tried using Amoco white gas in their lanterns and Coleman camp stoves with results you can imagine.
Back then, there were two things called white gas but they were very different. Coleman instructions still say to use white gas but not gasoline.
Amoco "unleaded" High Test also wasn't really unleaded. To get to genuine, chemically unleaded that would be OK with catalytic converters, the petroleum companies had to come up with new octane formulations that would at least run to some extent -- badly, but to some extent. Real unleaded gasoline is different from the gas that Amoco used to sell and unleaded and white gas. Last time I saw a technical discussion, they said that it actually costs about 8 cents more to make unleaded gas than to take cheap, crap gas and make it run bettery by adding tetraethyl lead additives. The $.60 difference at the gas pumps is all marketing and price fixing.
But don't confuse unleaded white gas -- either the old, not-really-unleaded stuff or the newer genuinely-no-lead gasoline -- with the low-evaporative, less explosive white gas (which is not really gasoline) for Coleman stoves that Clifford was talking about.
Quote from: gg04 on January 07, 2018, 08:36:26 AM
White gas= unleaded.. went from .13 a gallon to .35 when they changed the name on the pump...
White gas IS NOT UNLEADED! As Clifford says it is the same as Coleman fuel for lanterns and cook stoves.
The Amish we know use LOTS of "white gas" all year long. Recently they have learned if they pressurize "mineral spirits" it burns as well and clean as "white gas" and was dirt cheap compared to "white gas", but recently after using it for a short time they have discovered that because the demand for it has increased the price has skyrocketed almost 3 times per 55 gallon barrel since they first started using it to where it is still a little cheaper than "white gas" but not much.
;D BK ;D
Opus & Clifford, where do you find this Starbrite? lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on January 07, 2018, 10:17:26 AM
Opus & Clifford, where do you find this Starbrite? lvmci...
I buy it down the street from my local parts store that is real popular stuff in the marine world here since some of the boats go to storage with a 100 gals of gasoline on board I am believer in it
Quote from: lvmci on January 07, 2018, 10:17:26 AM
Opus & Clifford, where do you find this Starbrite? lvmci...
I just looked, Walmart online or Napa, etc. I think a lot of places carry. I originally called the company to chew on them about their liquid electrical tape. I was on their website and saw they did the gas thing too so we chatted about that a bit. Very informative but at my age.....I havent a clue what either of us said. :/ The struggle is real folks!!
Your calling naphtha mix white gas. At KM and all local stations white gas was the original gasoline. That's the white gas station's sold. Every car maker used it until the advent of adding "lead". When government made unleaded mandatory our wholesale price of white gas went from .09 gal to .22. Octane rating didn't go up until car manufacturers complained. Now all major manufacturers want to raise octane to 103-110 range. How times change.
Hadn't looked in years but Coleman still offers their dual fuel kit so you can either burn their fuel, or unleaded gas... now guess what the difference is..
Only way we could buy our white gas was in 55 gal drums and it was from a Kerr/Mcgee jobber
KM=Kerr McGee went to school on KM scholarship in petroleum engineering. Spent holidays and summers at one of their refineries. LOL
Yea I very familiar with KM,I did a lot of work on the Kerr/Mcgee channel and locks they didn't call it Kerr/Mcgee but Kerr had a lot of money in it to make a Tulsa a port,to bad they had so many pollution suits against the Kerr/Mcgee company and had to sell it another icon gone from the pages
Valero has all their gas refineries now..