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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: silversport on December 18, 2017, 07:57:19 PM

Title: air brakes leak
Post by: silversport on December 18, 2017, 07:57:19 PM
Just replaced the bellows on the mini-max (I think that is what it is called), cannot get one to seat (small leak when brakes applied), any ideas? Thinking about getting another bellows and trying again.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: eagle19952 on December 18, 2017, 07:59:52 PM
Quote from: silversport on December 18, 2017, 07:57:19 PM
Just replaced the bellows on the mini-max (I think that is what it is called), cannot get one to seat (small leak when brakes applied), any ideas? Thinking about getting another bellows and trying again.

diaphragm
dog bowl :)
try re-seating it
was the piston retracted fully ?
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: silversport on December 18, 2017, 08:26:26 PM
Sorry, diaphragm , yes 6 inch dog bowl and I have reset it three times. The driver side no problem.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: chessie4905 on December 19, 2017, 04:00:11 AM
Service manual says to slowly tighten clamp bolts till leak stops. I'd add some lube to inside of clamp lip to allow it to slide and seat while tightening. Anti seize will work. Don't go crazy and snap bolts.Just till leak stops. They also say to use soapy water solution if necessary.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: robertglines1 on December 19, 2017, 12:49:30 PM
Have had luck with emery cloth clean up sealing surface.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: silversport on December 19, 2017, 03:18:41 PM
Thanks to all, the anti- seize and a hammer did the trick.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Jim Eh. on December 25, 2017, 12:15:39 PM
A light dusting of baby powder on the diaphram aids in getting it centered. Also changes brakes squeal to crying but hey at least it won't leak.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: silversport on December 29, 2017, 03:20:40 PM
Now that we are on the road the leak returned and it is strange only leaks when parking valve on, something big leak other time small. no loss of air with parking valve off.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Oonrahnjay on December 29, 2017, 03:28:32 PM
Quote from: silversport on December 29, 2017, 03:20:40 PMNow that we are on the road the leak returned and it is strange only leaks when parking valve on, something big leak other time small. no loss of air with parking valve off. 

     Sounds like a leak in (or around) that diaphragm to me.  Wait, "no loss of air with parking brake off"???
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: buswarrior on December 30, 2017, 06:38:55 AM
What bus is this? MCI?

DD3 chambers? 2 diaphragms?

The smaller parking diaphragm is leaking.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: bevans6 on December 30, 2017, 07:16:59 AM
His past posts indicate a 1962 GM 4106, I don't know what brakes that would have, or what it might have at this late date...
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: luvrbus on December 30, 2017, 07:57:50 AM
The parking brakes have probably been added to a 62 model 4106 most had the mechanical brake on the rear axle either the spring or DD-3 chambers work on those I am thinking he has the DD-3   
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on December 30, 2017, 11:03:41 AM
They are all standard 62 GM.>>>D
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: chessie4905 on December 30, 2017, 11:14:14 AM
Maybe Silversport can report back whether his brake cans have two or three hoses to them. Them we can be more specific with our help.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: silversport on January 01, 2018, 11:32:52 AM
Yes I have a 1962 4106 with I think they are called mini-max cans, there is one hose from the valve on the bulkhead to the can, the diagram is 6 inches and is connected with a two bolt clamp. I am on the road now hopeful I get some insight at the Western GM rally at Quartzsite. Happy New Year to all.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on January 02, 2018, 01:48:36 PM
Robert,, Mike will be at "Q" and has the same setup as yours. He has changed his several times and knows them well.>>>Dan
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: eagle19952 on January 02, 2018, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: silversport on January 01, 2018, 11:32:52 AM
Yes I have a 1962 4106 with I think they are called mini-max cans, there is one hose from the valve on the bulkhead to the can, the diagram is 6 inches and is connected with a two bolt clamp. I am on the road now hopeful I get some insight at the Western GM rally at Quartzsite. Happy New Year to all.

so with one hose it is not a parking brake

it can only be an application brake.
the leak returned and it is strange only leaks when parking valve on, something big leak other time small. no loss of air with parking valve off.

which makes me wonder if the relay valve that feeds that brake isn't plumbed wrong..or is defective.
does the pedal actuate the can ?
it's a head scratch that won't be solved without eyes and hands on .

Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Jim Eh. on January 02, 2018, 03:50:50 PM
Caution: To anyone that does NOT know - spring brakes can be deadly. Be sure you know what to do before attempting to alter or repair your brake chambers!

If you only has one hose going to the brake chamber, it must be a pre 121 system? If that is the case then it is most likely leaking when the brakes are applied as well. it could be that the diaphram is just not seated correctly and the is leaking. With no air applied (make sure the bus can't roll while you are under there) you could try lightly tapping all the way around the clamp as you apply a little torque to the clamp bolts to help seat the clamp.

Does it look like this?
http://www.fleet-products.ca/3000sc-type-30-service-chamber/ (http://www.fleet-products.ca/3000sc-type-30-service-chamber/)
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: luvrbus on January 02, 2018, 04:02:55 PM
Just 1 line he has ICC brakes
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: buswarrior on January 02, 2018, 04:43:14 PM
Yup, what luvrbus said.

Air applied using a hand operated control knob or lever style control.

Still only one diaphragm back there, activated by two paths of air further up the plumbing...

The chamber will be leaking under a brake pedal application too.

make it stop before you go.

happy coaching!
buswarrior



Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: eagle19952 on January 02, 2018, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: Jim Eh. on January 02, 2018, 03:50:50 PM
Caution: To anyone that does NOT know - spring brakes can be deadly. Be sure you know what to do before attempting to alter or repair your brake chambers!



Does it look like this?
http://www.fleet-products.ca/3000sc-type-30-service-chamber/ (http://www.fleet-products.ca/3000sc-type-30-service-chamber/)

ONLY IF THEY ARE TWO CHAMBER. This one can hurt, a lot.

except the new ones have a band that cannot be removed. you really have to work at it to hurt yourself with the new style,


(https://peterbiltparts.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/SB3030CH_0.jpg?itok=l-OcLvik)

it's the back chamber spring that gets you. the front service chamber...no big deal about as much tension as an ink pen spring. ok a bit more, not much more tho.

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gonefcon.com%2Ftrucktcom%2Fb_chmbr_park.gif&hash=0e1547d41d60902b6128ec839a8de31375afce78)
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: Jim Eh. on January 02, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
If you are working on a single chamber, have someone apply the brakes or set the "parking brake" (I used that term loosely) and clamp the pushrod with a pair of vise grips. Then release the application or "parking brake". It will keep the pushrod plate out of your way so you are not fighting the light return spring when reassembling the brake chamber. Once the clamp is back in position release the vise grips and test for leaks.

I once saw a loaded fuel tanker start rolling backwards in the parking lot of a truck stop when the air system dropped on a pre 121 system. Only the trailer brakes were set to "park". It looked pretty funny watching an old guy running after that truck. I dared not laugh at "the driver". Dad would have kicked my butt for the rest of the trip if I had. For the rest of my life I thought of that moment whenever I saw a Bendix RE6 equipped brake system.
Title: Re: air brakes leak
Post by: luvrbus on January 03, 2018, 06:00:08 AM
Some GM owners get creative and just add a PBV to the ICC system and when the air leaks off they have no parking brake so they keep their mechanical parking brake with the Johnson bar