I took the bus out for the weekend and usually every trip, I'm learning something new. This time it was dealing with freezing temps. We rolled in and I set up everything. If I would have thought about it, I would have kept the water unhooked until the next day. Well, I woke up and no water. I looked at the temp and immediately got worried that the freezing would have broken something.
It warmed up a bit and I had running water within a few hrs. My question is did I get lucky? Do I need to be more aware of when it gets to below freezing weather? I guess I assumed that my 74 MCI was built to handle that but I don't want to stupidly assume something like that.
Does anyone have any lessons learned when it comes to freezing weather?
I also learned more about my starter batteries but I will save that for a different thread.
Leave a light on.
Put a drop light in your water bay and unless it gets way below 0 degrees, your water should not freeze. This is a very broad statement, your mileage may vary. I have had quite a bit of experience in below freezing weather as I like to go skiing and never had a problem. But it all depends how your bus is set up. This is assuming your tanks are in baggage compartments where they are protected from the elements.
100 watt light bulb works well. Make sure to get a rough service one. They last longer. Why not drain and add RV antifreeze to system so you don't have an issue when it really gets a cold snap.
Anti-freeze in the fresh water lines makes nasty tasting coffee. I still to figure out exactly how to control the heaters in the bays. It seems there is a t-stat in one; maybe it is used to control them all. Make sure your house batteries have enough capacity to run 100 watt incandescents while off grid. A small weber filled with charcoal should keep things warm too. :o
Hey Gary and chessie, inside an uninsulated bay, do you guys think a 100 watt bulb would do the trick? I have always had a 1500 watt space heater down there but it really is using too much power. I don't need it warm in there, just above freezing....
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A 100W bulb is fine. 60W is sufficient unless it gets below about 20 degrees. But most drop lights should have 100W bulbs anyway (rough service as noted before) so you can use it for double-duty and they won't break if bounced around some or get a bit wet. Using two drop lights gives you a bit of extra insurance as all bulbs will eventually burn out. And of course, you must use incandescent bulbs.
If it is windy outside, the heat may dissipate faster if it is not insulated or air tight. A 1500W cube heater (with a fan) will definitely give you a bit more insurance. I have used them when it got below 0 degrees. The good thing about a cube heater is you can set the thermostat so they don't run all of the time but it may also trip a breaker if anything else comes on on that circuit. A light bulb can be seen peaking thru the cracks at night so that can help too.
You can also get a remote thermometer and stick it down there if you are concerned and some come with alarms on them for extra measure.
A busted water line is not generally the end of the world in a bus conversion because all lines are generally easily accessible unlike some stick-n-staple units where they build the tanks in before installing the appliances so they are inaccessible.
This system works well if you plan on living in the bus or leaving it for a few days, but as noted before, if you plan on being away from the bus, it is better to drain the lines and put potable anti-freeze in all of the traps. But just remember to bypass the water heater first otherwise it will take a lot of antifreeze to fill that up. And yes, your water can taste a bit nasty for a while. If you are concerned about that, you can also use Vodka to winterize your system as that is good to about 15 below zero and doesn't leave that nasty smell. :D
I use heat wrap on the hose all the way into the bay and up to where it either hits the water heater or enters the coach on the cold water side. Then I have 2- 100 Watt bulb, one directly beneath the dump valve (actually had that freeze shut one time) and another beneath the water filter (had one of them freeze and burst). All told I'm using around 500 watts for full protection. This has worked down to minus 19° F. I have a main Thermostat that kicks it all on at 38° F. BTW-it's getting harder to find the good old fashioned bulbs that really generate heat.
Good luck because I don't plan on being in such climates again, :o
Will and Wife
water bed heaters never seemed to fail... are 200 watt and temper a whole lot more water...and are thermostatically controlled.
i use 500 watt cubes on low.
they are often not running when i open the bays.
I put my fresh water tanks under the bed, and of course they are not going to freeze if I'm using the bus. What I worry about is my holding tanks in the bay. I have a water bed heater for them but I haven't needed it yet. I blew all the water out of the system 2 months ago and haven't gone anywhere yet.
Hi All, don't use a LED bulb! They Don't create much heat, lvmci...
I routed one of the heat ducts from the Suburban furnace into my water bay. I live full time and have limited electricity so needed something. I have kept my water flowing @ -20F
How about a electric heated blanket? Drape it over/around the tanks.
For piece of mind, I have been using these temperature probes:
SensorPush Wireless Thermometer / Hygrometer for iPhone / Android - Humidity & Temperature Smart Sensor with Alerts
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AEQ9X9I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AEQ9X9I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Along with the "SensorPush G1 WiFi Gateway". Been working excellent - but you need to have a wireless access point around. For me that's not an issue as the bus is parked while at home near a WAP. The probe pushes temps out through the gateway up to the cloud, then down to my iPhone. Plus I can see how the temps were running over the past week, or just overnight. There's also an alerting capability - they can send you a heads up that temps are approaching the danger zone. If you want to use these and have pets, for example during summer months, so you can ensure that the bus a/c units, campground power, etc. didn't cut out and leave the small furry family members baking in the sun.. Just be sure to plug your Jet Pack or other WAP device plugged into your inverter, along w/ your gateway. Cost was around $150 for all components.
While it sounds complex, it only took about 10 minutes to program this, and it was _very_ easy to setup. Check out the reviews on Amazon. This is a good product. There are similar comparative products as well.
In the attached screenshot I can see that the temps in my bay & bus interior are just fine as outside temps are now below freezing and heading down to the low twenties.
Hope this helps, Phil
They make nice forced air cube heaters with thermostats. You can try to find some at 500 to 1000 watts. I'd pick up a spare or two. Shop around and find some good deals. Remember to blow out dust accumulation annually, especially if used inside coach, as fires have started from excess dust accumulation in toe heaters. Sure, electric blanket should work if it is all you have but sorta bulky in a compartment and they don't like being in a pile or folded while on. All these choices aren't foolproof and can fail at inopportune time. If coach is going to sit all winter, better to drain, add rv antfreeze, add to drain traps. For crappy taste of coffee in spring, drink soda. Coffee stunts your growth anyway. (at least vertically). You can add a small .carbon water filter to your tap for this issue.
I don't think I will have any issues with the tanks and yes they are in the bays. I actually didn't even think there was a chance of that freezing but it makes sense if I'm in freezing weather for a long time. I was more thinking about the water hook up to the bus. I like the idea of having a wrap for the hose.
I think I'm more worried about other lines breaking from the frozen water but b/c it was only that one morning I only had to deal with the hose.
I think to be safe, I shouldn't hook it up if I know it's going to freeze. I'd hate to break the filter system and lines going to all the places it goes.
Jeeze, I'm such a newb, that I don't even know where my water gets heated at. It must be electric b/c I don't use propane at all. So much to learn....
You ain't kidding.
Part of my learning disability is I only take it out when going camping and then I usually drink 3, 4, 89 beers and forget anything I did learn.
The other part is I keep the bus at a storage lot. Unfortunately, my yard is too steep to park it anywhere near my house. I think i miss out on a lot of tinkering and learning b/c of that.
At least those are the excuses i'm going to use
They make D9 dozers to take care of that issue. :)
They make a 25 ft insulated hose with a heat cable installed from the factory.All though a bit bulky to haul around it works like a charm.I have also used A Pelonis cube heater .Just set it in the bay where your water hook ups are and set it to the lowest setting and let 'er rip.
If it's going to be freezing outside, I fill the fresh water tank, then put the hose away and run off the tank.
We have a 750/1500 watt cube heater in the water bay, adjusted to its lowest setting. It's plugged into it's own dedicated circuit with a 15 amp breaker. An 11 gallon Seaward heat exchanger electric hot water heater also shares this bay.
Engine has a typical DD electric block heater, also on a dedicated circuit that's shared with the on-board air compressor, but the plugs have to be switched manually.
Have a 1500w toe kick heater, again on its own circuit, in the bedroom pointing down the hallway. It's setup in such a way that by removing four screws it can be pulled out for maintenance/cleaning, an annual fall chore that takes 20-30 minutes max. We will often prop the bathroom door open slightly in order to keep the toilet seat from being an ice cube!
Up front we have a dedicated switch for a heater that works, but it's not hooked up to anything, as a previous owner removed the unit. So for the time being, we're just using another cube heater on a circuit shared with a small LED desk lamp.
So far this combination has kept us comfortable on 20o nights with no freezing issues - either hooked to 50 amps, or running the 8kW genset. (No propane)
FWIW & HTH...
;)
might be a good time to insulate the bays
it would be the best way to hold the heat in
dave
Hi All, at pet stores, there is a heater that is for dog houses enclosed in a water proof pads or flat plastic case, it radiates heat, but not hot. lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on December 20, 2017, 06:19:00 AM
Hi All, at pet stores, there is a heater that is for dog houses enclosed in a water proof pads or flat plastic case, it radiates heat, but not hot. lvmci...
That's pretty cool, I could easily just put that in the bay where my water hook ups are and tanks.
So have used Waterbed heaters also in the bays ;D
A couple of winters ago, driving back home in February through Montana, it was 20 below and we froze a water line that was close to a bay door. I have since applied spray foam insulation on the inside of all the doors. If I remember correctly, it took 6 rattle cans of Right Stuff (maybe?) it is pink. Anyway, easy to do, and good insurance. Someone building a conversion from scratch would be well advised to do that everywhere reachable below the belt line. Driving through winter conditions doesn't come by choice.
JC
Quote from: Branderson on December 19, 2017, 12:09:28 PMI don't think I will have any issues with the tanks and yes they are in the bays. I actually didn't even think there was a chance of that freezing but it makes sense if I'm in freezing weather for a long time. I was more thinking about the water hook up to the bus. I like the idea of having a wrap for the hose.
I think I'm more worried about other lines breaking from the frozen water but b/c it was only that one morning I only had to deal with the hose.
I think to be safe, I shouldn't hook it up if I know it's going to freeze. I'd hate to break the filter system and lines going to all the places it goes.
Jeeze, I'm such a newb, that I don't even know where my water gets heated at. It must be electric b/c I don't use propane at all. So much to learn....
You'll learn, we all do. The trick is to not have too much go wrong until you do. "Winterization" is a big issue. Basically, if your bus is going to be stored (at least anywhere but a heated garage and who of us has that??) in conditions below freezing, you have to either get *all* the water out of the system (all means, in tanks, in pumps, water heaters, hoses or pipes, faucets, etc.). A good way to do that is to have a way to put low-pressure air to your system fill and open all valves such as faucets, shower handles, drain fittings, etc. until every bit of water is flushed out of your system; another way that works is to be sure that you have sufficient anti-freeze worked through your system so that it doesn't freeze. (One drawback of the antifreeze method is that you have to have enough to dilute the contents of tanks and water heaters and similar components, and a lot of people dislike the smell/taste of the water when you're using the system after the end of the winter -- it seems to take a long time to flush it out.) But either system works and both have to be done 100% right in detail.
It's pretty much imperative for all of us who will be in conditions below freezing to look at our systems and identify places where parts of the system are in unenclosed and/or uninsulated areas and take care of those spots, too. It's all about details -- if you miss a single spot, you're likely to have a leak that you'll have to fix before you can use the system in the spring.
There are a number of posts in the archives that give info so have a look. They'll give you better info than my input.
Good luck, BH
Who needs a stinking heated dog hut?