Hi everyone,
My best friend and I have been talking about buying a bus conversion to take on road trips.
I've been doing research in my spare time, but I know I have a lot to learn. For instance, we're both very handy around the house, so doing upgrades to the interior wouldn't be much of a challenge. However, apart from the bit of knowledge my father shared with me while fixing up my car, I certainly could use more knowledge when it comes to all things mechanical.
After doing some research, we like the look and the size of the GM 4106. We found a few that have already been converted around the country on Craigslist, and we want to see them in person before we put in an offer on one.
Right now, we're located in North Jersey, very close to New York City, but we're willing to travel for a good deal.
I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the following...
1) Is there anyone in our area who might like to show us their bus in person and impart some knowledge? ;D
2) Or anyone on the forum who might be willing to chime in on what to look for/what to be wary of when buying a 4106?
3) What is a good asking price for an already converted 4106?
4) How do I go about finding a bus mechanic to do an inspection?
5) Is it reasonable to ask the seller if I can come down, inspect it, and take a look at a few other ones before I make a final decision?
6) Does anyone have any hot tips on where to store the bus in our off season? My dad always seemed to work out deals to store cars, trailers, boats, and what not on farms and in empty warehouses, but I have no idea where/how he struck up such arrangements.
Thank you in advance!
Quote from: suzanka on December 17, 2017, 04:42:02 PM
Hi everyone,
My best friend and I have been talking about buying a bus conversion to take on road trips.
I've been doing research in my spare time, but I know I have a lot to learn. For instance, we're both very handy around the house, so doing upgrades to the interior wouldn't be much of a challenge. However, apart from the bit of knowledge my father shared with me while fixing up my car, I certainly could use more knowledge when it comes to all things mechanical.
After doing some research, we like the look and the size of the GM 4106. We found a few that have already been converted around the country on Craigslist, and we want to see them in person before we put in an offer on one.
Right now, we're located in North Jersey, very close to New York City, but we're willing to travel for a good deal.
I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the following...
1) Is there anyone in our area who might like to show us their bus in person and impart some knowledge? ;D
2) Or anyone on the forum who might be willing to chime in on what to look for/what to be wary of when buying a 4106?
3) What is a good asking price for an already converted 4106?
i would ask $80,000.00...but i probably wouldn't get it ...
4) How do I go about finding a bus mechanic to do an inspection?
NEW JERSEY, Berlin LUKE, U.S. Coach Services, Toll Free 888-262-2434, uscoach@att.net We are a full service bus repair and bus parts company located in Berlin, N.J., just outside of Philadelphia, Pa. We have a 6 bay shop and warehouse situated on 6 1/2 acres of cleared parking area. We service all models of buses and specialize in the older coaches such as GM's.
5) Is it reasonable to ask the seller if I can come down, inspect it, and take a look at a few other ones before I make a final decision?
Yes. if they get grumpy...there is probably something...not right about him, the bus or the deal...imo
6) Does anyone have any hot tips on where to store the bus in our off season? My dad always seemed to work out deals to store cars, trailers, boats, and what not on farms and in empty warehouses, but I have no idea where/how he struck up such arrangements.
Occupied in Arizona.
Thank you in advance!
Windtrader (Don) has this subject down to a science. Look for his posts for his checklist.
Luke is near Vineland NJ.
One of the important considerations is whether you can handle shifting a non-synchronized 4-speed transmission, which involves double-clutching. If not, then only look for Allison automatics in the buses. Are you mechanically inclined, or do you have lots of spare cash to hire mechanics? If neither applies, then it might not be smooth sailing. Parts availability for GM Coaches is not as great as other brands, so be open to other makes. ;)
A good starting place is right here. Subscribe to Bus Conversion magazine, read this BB daily, and most important, LOOK AT A LOT OF BUSES! That's the one most important piece of advice that was given to me when I was in the market for a bus. You don't say what your budget is. Again, this board is a virtual encyclopedia of bus information. We can take any tidbit and beat it to death! LOL! Good luck.
Dennis
I would start with a road trip to US Coach in Vineland NJ.
Siberyd
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all of your responses. You've raised a lot of good points and have given me much to think about. It definitely seems like Luke's shop is a good place to start, so I'll plan a trip there as it's not too far of a drive. I have family in South Jersey, too :)
I've been reading this forum for about a month or two, and I finally signed up not to long ago. I also read a couple of back issues of the magazine, but I should absolutely subscribe. I keep forgetting to :P
I'll definitely look for Don/windtrader's posts.
@DoubleEagle, haha! Great point, but then you made me remember that while I may not know anything about a manual bus transmission, my cousin might. She loves all sorts of heavy machinery. I remember growing up with her and listening to her stories of practicing parking semi's. She moved to KY to become a train engineer. She's a resource that I had forgotten.
That's also a bummer to hear about the parts availability. I had read on here that they made plenty of GM's, but now I'm guessing that since they're so old, it was only a matter of time before those spare/salvaged parts started to run out.
@Hi yo silver/Dennis, to be honest, I have no idea how much to budget. Right now I'm putting my feelers out. I don't have deep pockets, and I know this is a project that could easily become a money pit. I'm not really sure what a rough amount would be to set aside for an already converted shell and repairs.
So far on Craigslist and eBay, I've seen converted coaches ranging in price from $5k-$30k, all in various states of repair, many with rebuilt engines. I want to try my best not to get duped into buying a lemon that I'd have to spend thousands on just to get back to running condition. I don't have significant mechanical background, so I'd be looking for a bus that already had the most important repairs taken care of, and then any creature comforts I can fix up myself.
I guess the question I should have asked would be, "What is a reasonable budget for this project?"
Thanks!
I'm only 2yrs into it so i'm no expert but I have always thought that you are going to spend more money if you buy one and then convert it so for your first one, i suggest getting an already converted one. The costs are going to vary but i just can't see you spending more than 30k or should I say that you shouldn't pay more than that. I would think you could get a 4106 for 10-15k that is driveable.
have you looked at busnuts.com to see the prices? I'm sure there are other sites as well.
edit: I just looked at busnuts and it isn't as good a site as it once was. I guess you will have to play with google and craigslist to find one. I still wouldn't pay over 20k for that model.
You may want to consider a sticks and staples to get your feet wet. Bus conversions are great but be prepared for very high repair bills compared to a regular RV. Overheat or lose an engine....20 to 30 k till you are back on the road. $3500 for a new clutch assembly. Air bags, brakes, kingpins, suspension parts, etc. Everything costs more than twice a much as RV's and many fewer places to have them worked on. Luke's is a fantasic place to have your coach worked on, but like many of us,he's no spring chicken. Where will you go when he retires and closes shop? A good DDA two cycle mechanic is going the way of dinosaurs and unicorns.These issues are especially so if you can't do, at least, some of your on work. Just trying to give you a realistic view about it. Welcome to the board and good luck.
As is usually the case, you've already gotten a lot of great advice. This forum is indispensable. I had a throw-out bearing go bad on the way to CA. I posted my problem here, and in less than four hours, the folks here hooked me up with Larry who was waiting for us at the Zuzax, NM exit at midnight! We pulled the transmission, got a new clutch and bearing from Luke and put it back together. We were in Zuzax for 10 days waiting for the parts and doing the rebuild. Larry and his wife loaned us a car, had us over for New Year's Eve dinner, and took us out to tour Old Town Albuquerque! I can't guarantee that kind of support every time, but it's not uncommon. Luke at U.S. Coach should absolutely be your first stop. He has a wealth of knowledge and has been a tremendous resource for us. I was a newbie in 2011, bought a 4104 with a rebuilt engine and new suspension airbags. Those, to me, were two very important issues. My bus came with 15 years of BCM Magazine in boxes. I read every one and cut out articles to organize them in a three-ring binder. As for shifting the non-syncro transmission, learn how to shift without using the clutch. With some practice, it's way easier than you might imagine, both for upshifting and downshifting. I'd second the advice to get a fairly recent conversion. If you want to see what starting from scratch is like, visit my blog at http://this-old-bus.blogspot.com/ (http://this-old-bus.blogspot.com/)
Realistic budget? Depends on so many things that it would be impossible to answer. Our first bus was a 1964 GM 4106 in pretty nice condition - solid driveability with a nice interior. Had the original 8V71 engine with a 17-year-old rebuild and an automatic transmission. Spent $14k to purchase the bus. Once we got into it further and made our list of things to upgrade/improve we easily doubled our initial investment. Then we discovered that mice has destroyed the generator. Another sizeable investment. And then there were tires and chasing the inevitable leaking air bags/suspension leaks as well as all the other ongoing maintenance. Would I do it again? Sure.
With our current coach we went a different route and found a 1974 GM 4108 with only 40,000 original miles. It was converted as a new coach and never saw service as a passenger bus. We spent much more on the initial purchase this time, and we were fine with that knowing that we'd have far fewer issues to contend with. Mechanically this is a very solid bus that's been well cared for. That said, we'll still have about $5k more to invest to get the house (RV) systems up to where we want them. Maybe a bit more, who knows. (Ok - who's kidding? Definitely more than a bit...)
For our first coach I didn't want to do the conversion myself. The more I looked into it, the more overwhelming the prospect looked. Twenty years ago I would have been much more eager to take on the project, but at 55 I wanted to limit the amount of work to do before we could hit the road. Our current coach was converted by Custom Coach, and I don't think that anything I could do would have been even close to the quality of what we have and it probably would have ended up costing us nearly as much. For us the convenience was also worth the extra money.
A few factors went into our choice of GM. First, we wanted nothing longer than a 35-foot bus due to driveway considerations. Lots to choose from with a GM in this size. We wanted something that had a classic look, and we both liked the GM. Our first bus (the 4106) was destroyed in an accident, and how well it held up was a driving force towards us staying with GM for our second. I realize that parts may be a problem, but so far we've been pretty lucky. I think that the biggest problem we'll have in the future is when I want to upgrade from a 4-speed to an automatic, as there are limited options with the GM as compared to MCI or Eagle.
If you're heading to Luke's shop, you might stop by and talk to Tom at http://www.bargainbusnews.com (http://www.bargainbusnews.com) as he is also in NJ. His shop is about 20 minutes from Luke and he has a number of coaches on his site right now. I can't speak to any of them in particular since I haven't seen them myself, but you might find it educational to talk to Tom for a bit about the coaches he has on his lot. This is where we bought our 4108 and Tom came with high recommendations.
Hope this was helpful - sorry to ramble.
Good luck.
Suzanka.
The most important tings to look carefully is the various suspension structures under the bus.
They are very expensive and hard to replace for some of them. All the various bulkheads and carlines ends are also to be inspected. Look under and inside the wheel wells. The outside paneling should be in contact with the structure. No gaps at all. The alluminium do not rust but corrode badly. Look for flaking alluminium around all windows opening. Also around all the front and rear of the wheels. Inspect every parts under the bus . Specially the steel structures.
The engine should not have to mutch milage. Have a proof of engine rebuild if the seller told you that the engine have been rebuild not long ago. Same ting for the transmission. Don't hesitate to do a stall test. Inform yourself abouth the procedures and specification for an automatic transmission stall test. If the seller don't know the total millage of the engine and transmission,with paper proof,that tell you that they will need to be rebuild soon. If the engine have been rebuilded ´´IN FRAME ´´ this is
only an extension of the life of it. Not bad but not good . Beware of the seller who spray paint the engine in place with spray cans. Look at the prestone by the search tank.No oil AT ALL should be there. So deep your finger inside the tank whent the engine as been shut for a while. The best of the best is to perform an oil analyze. Easy to do and so helpful.
Insist to the seller that you dont whant him to start the engine before your arrival. Be sure that the engine is completely cold at your first inspection. Whent you will start the engine,no blue smoke should come out of the muffler. White smoke is tolerable for a few seconds.
Go for a ride.....a nice one hour or two ride. Go uphill if you can. Look at the engine temperature. Bring a digital manual temperature gage.(cheap to by). Check the temp. At the thermostat housing. Also have a look at the bottom end of the radiator. No gummy or damp surfaces are tolerable.
A good ting to do is to follow the bus with your car while the seller is driving the bus.
Have a look at the attitude of the bus on the road. The bus should run straight . Not like a old dog with the front going left and the rear going right.
The more times you pass inspecting the bus the less chances you have to have a surprise.
After this inspection...and only after this,you can go inside the bus to have a look at the nice curtains and nice bathroom.
Good luck
Alain
Quote from: suzanka on December 18, 2017, 10:03:24 AM
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all of your responses. You've raised a lot of good points and have given me much to think about. It definitely seems like Luke's shop is a good place to start, so I'll plan a trip there as it's not too far of a drive. I have family in South Jersey, too :)
I've been reading this forum for about a month or two, and I finally signed up not to long ago. I also read a couple of back issues of the magazine, but I should absolutely subscribe. I keep forgetting to :P Money Pit??? Son,you have nooooo idea!!!!
I'll definitely look for Don/windtrader's posts.
@DoubleEagle, haha! Great point, but then you made me remember that while I may not know anything about a manual bus transmission, my cousin might. She loves all sorts of heavy machinery. I remember growing up with her and listening to her stories of practicing parking semi's. She moved to KY to become a train engineer. She's a resource that I had forgotten.
That's also a bummer to hear about the parts availability. I had read on here that they made plenty of GM's, but now I'm guessing that since they're so old, it was only a matter of time before those spare/salvaged parts started to run out.
@Hi yo silver/Dennis, to be honest, I have no idea how much to budget. Right now I'm putting my feelers out. I don't have deep pockets, and I know this is a project that could easily become a money pit. I'm not really sure what a rough amount would be to set aside for an already converted shell and repairs.
So far on Craigslist and eBay, I've seen converted coaches ranging in price from $5k-$30k, all in various states of repair, many with rebuilt engines. I want to try my best not to get duped into buying a lemon that I'd have to spend thousands on just to get back to running condition. I don't have significant mechanical background, so I'd be looking for a bus that already had the most important repairs taken care of, and then any creature comforts I can fix up myself.
I guess the question I should have asked would be, "What is a reasonable budget for this project?"
Thanks!
You could always check the bus conversions at prevostcommunity.com You get a free email address if you buy one.
Quote from: Geoff on December 20, 2017, 07:30:43 PM
You could always check the bus conversions at prevostcommunity.com You get a free email address if you buy one.
Heck, just buy my 1991 XL Prevost and you're half the way there.
Hi Susanka, Rust is the biggest structural risk. your safest bet is to get a southwestern bus, altho not all buses here are from the south west. Rust, Can be apparent or hidden, but every bus manufacturer, has specific vulnerable areas. Your safest bet is to bring an experienced bus nut with you. Look at as many as you can, going to bus rally is a sure bet, drive some too, it will reduce the surprise factor. Good luck, lvmci...
Sorry eagle.
You could have just said that.
It's gone.
oldest beginning post here.
SUNDAY, MARCH 4, 2012
http://this-old-bus.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-03-05T18:39:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=30&by-date=false (http://this-old-bus.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-03-05T18:39:00-08:00&max-results=7&start=30&by-date=false)
eagle19952,
Sorry, no idea what you're trying to say. Just trying to help out here. If I've violated some rule, please explain.
i'm definitely deeper in than i want to be.
eagle,
Sorry, I removed the post as soon as I read your reply. I truly deserved the cryptic and deprecating public reply I got from you. Thank you for directing me to the information that will allow me to remedy my transgressions. It didn't occur to me that my post would be seen as an ad. My intent was to assist another forum member. After reading all the links you posted I now understand the rules. It was irresponsible of me not to have read the rules earlier. I will limit my posts here so as to minimize my chances of running afoul again.
My apologies to the forum members and to BCM. I may be posting an ad at a later date when I can post photos. Hope suzanka finds the right bus.
Gordie
Goride,it's fine Gary would have removed it when the time came ,when you buy a ad from Gary your bus will pop up on a lot of different sites including F/B.When you take out a ad with Gary it helps keeping this board going and he is a nice guy (sometimes) ;D
Hi Susanka, you must be already at the point where your desire for a bus, vs a stick and staple RV, has over ruled your common sense, so go to at least one bus rally, bus nuts are usually very friendly and will over explain about the build of his or her bus. I looked at 12 buses and drove a few different kinds, to feel their driving style, even a bluebird Wanderlodge. Like money burning a hole in your pocket as a teenager, your going to want to jump in quickly, it's the nature of busnutdom. But if you can take a busnut with you, on an inspection, it will give you a perspective you won't see, when your eyes are glazed over with bus lust. I started with a two axle MCI5A from 1966, there are a lot of MCI5s, GMs and other 2 axle (no tag axle) 35' buses already converted, which will give you a head start and do start a list of good and bad right away. Structural rust is a big problem, as mentioned before, but nonfunctioning mechanicals will delay using the bus even for a weekend. Nonfunctioning interior house equipment will be annoying but won't leave you dead in the water. Bad brakes and tires will also limit you using the bus, at first aged out or cracked tires can blow out, I bought good used tires at a heavy duty commercial tire store, they don't last as long as new, but they are a fraction of the cost and got me by, till I learned more about operating the bus, good luck and happy trails to you, lvmci...
Quote from: Gordie Allen on February 22, 2018, 03:32:36 AM
Sorry eagle.
You could have just said that.
It's gone.
i am not known for being a diplomatic wordsmith...
i did leave your link it is a good read.