Hello Everyone!
I'm new to this forum, but I've been happily living in my bus conversion since 2015. I'm a Thousand Trails (TT) member in good standing (Platinum/Elite status), and I have resided in a TT Resort since October 2016. Until now.
In early December I travelled from my regular TT resort to a new one, where the manager not only refused me entry (after asking a series of questions she'd never ask of an RV owner), stating that I didn't have an "RVIA" sticker on bus, I found out later (when a kind TT ranger called me on the "down low") that she reported me as a "violation" to headquarters, prohibiting me from entering ANY TT Resort.
Apparently the Mean Manager thought my solar panel was a fire hazard (she said I had "live wires outside my bus???!!), and my electrical system - based on a 10 gauge extension cord, the standard for 30 amp hook-ups wasn't up to code. Yet both the solar system and my extension cords were installed by certified electricians!
All of the TT rangers who are familiar with me and my bus were shocked and willing to sneak me in, but that's not how I roll. I understand the need for safety (my bus has two fire extinguishers, a smoke/CO detector, and I don't carry propane), but there are plenty of bus conversions allowed into my former TT location without this hassle. Headquarters didn't even bother to call or email me (the logical thing to do for mobile members), instead sending a certified letter that I just picked up.
I'm in the process of figuring out my next steps, and wondering where I can go to obtain the type of certification that TT wants. Or raise hell at how I was treated.
Any ideas?
Best answer. Find an rv junk yard, strip the RIVA sticker off a junker and plaster it on your unit. Much as folks would like to brow beat you into believing RIVA has any clout--they don't. Make Them prove they are right and when they can't threaten them any way you see fit and demand to stay at least over night etc, etc, etc. Jack
We stayed at a few TT on our trip across the country last few months and never had a problem other than the one in Saulsberry Tennessee. That place was awful. Not a single level spot, power was all 30 AMPs but they told us and marked the 50Amp spot on map. We went to them and they were also 30 Amps. Then had to use a Mutimeter to find one with full power. There was ones that only showed 30 on a 120 and down as low as 21 on a 120 volt. There were weeds dead in every spot and a lake with algae covering. We went to sleep early and got out of there at 4AM. Terrible place. They never asked us anything except were we members and we said no. So she tells us we had to pay an extra 4.00 for not being.
As I have no idea of you or your coach's appearance, it makes it difficult to make an accurate opinion. Campground owners of some years in business usually go by gut first impressions which are based with the many vehicle/ owner visitors. Could be the location gets a few , let's say Zephod types, to cause them to be very conservative in their approval of their clients. Maybe you rubbed the person the wrong way, who knows.... You don't have any political or enviornmental stickers or signs on your vehicle do you or rig is badly needing a paint job? Probably the best thing to do is place them on your avoid list. Others on here over the years have had somewhat similiar issue/s at one place or another. Unfortunately, there are campground owners out there that are buttheads.
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 12, 2017, 04:49:56 AM
As I have no idea of you or your coach's appearance, it makes it difficult to make an accurate opinion. Campground owners of some years in business usually go by gut first impressions which are based with the many vehicle/ owner visitors. Could be the location gets a few , let's say Zephod types, to cause them to be very conservative in their approval of their clients. Maybe you rubbed the person the wrong way, who knows.... You don't have any political or enviornmental stickers or signs on your vehicle do you or rig is badly needing a paint job? Probably the best thing to do is place them on your avoid list. Others on here over the years have had somewhat similiar issue/s at one place or another. Unfortunately, there are campground owners out there that are buttheads.
My bus is beautiful. A YouTube video about me and my bus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyFxBvsREw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyFxBvsREw)) has been viewed over 308,000 times, and I will be featured in an upcoming tiny home living festival. The Mean Manager (Thousand Trails Morgan Hill) is notorious for turning away people on flimsy excuses. I want to get the word out, so that other lovely bus conversions don't have to deal with her vitriol.
Quote from: oltrunt on December 11, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
Best answer. Find an rv junk yard, strip the RIVA sticker off a junker and plaster it on your unit. Much as folks would like to brow beat you into believing RIVA has any clout--they don't. Make Them prove they are right and when they can't threaten them any way you see fit and demand to stay at least over night etc, etc, etc. Jack
Jack - the rebel in me likes your thinking (and yes, I will research your idea), but I would prefer not to involve the sheriff in my overnight accommodations. Because that is what these managers will do - if you raise any fuss whatsoever, they will call the sheriff and evict you from the premises, in a heartbeat.
Welcome to BCM Dr P. Your video is really cool. It is a "skoolie", a term for school type buses. Many commercial RV parks do turn away school buses and even factory RV of an older vintage. In fact, I'm surprised you've only an encountered an issue now and not earlier.
There is nothing you can do to your bus to make it more acceptable; it is what is, no matter how practical and environmentally conscious it is. It is clear you are not homeless or a vagabond, so stealth camping is not your solution. The positive is your bus is small so you have a lot more possibilities where to park it. Most of us here are 35'-45' and much harder to tuck in here or there.
With lots of tech work in SV, I get the difficulty you face. As you are very well connected to the community, there's good chance you can find a residential side yard to tuck into. Yes, not legal but you clearly lead a low profile lifestyle, some simple cloaking devices and maneuvers can keep you out of trouble.
I may be starting a new contract in the south bay so I may PM about more about what you discover.
Good luck
Don
I wouldn't say it's a schoolie, it is a shuttle bus conversion of sorts. If the CA DMV will register it as a "housecar" then you can argue with TT that it IS an RV.
P.S. If it is registered right now as a commercial vehicle over 10,000 lbs. you are required to follow DOT regulations and stop at the scales.
My Prevost doesn't have an RVIA sticker.
We had a 1000 Trails membership for several years. There's a wide variety of personalities end up being hired as their managers. You certainly don't go to 1000 Trails parks for consistency. This is probably not winnable at the specific park but it is also not likely to be relevant at the next park. I'd move on.
And speaking of TT, a friend of mine has a membership and was bragging about how he could go to any park and get in. I, on the other hand have always gravitated to provincial/state parks. So he invited me to come out to the TT near Vancouver for the evening. MY GOD. New York city has less crowding and vehicle parking that this place had. I guess its privately owned and tries to get as many RV's in as possible but its not for me.
Quote from: Jon on December 12, 2017, 12:35:20 PM
My Prevost doesn't have an RVIA sticker.
Look down low on the PS side of the vehicle .Mine is right in front of the front wheel.That is where it is on my CC .I really can't see Liberty building a conversion with out one.
Quote from: The Champion Challenger on December 11, 2017, 06:59:47 PMHello Everyone! ... I'm a Thousand Trails (TT) member in good standing ...
Thank you for this information. "TT" is a group of RV parks that I'll avoid in the future.
I would love to hear both sides of this interaction. We only know one side of the story....and my gut tells me there's another side. Let me be completely frank...we all think our buses are beautiful...but the next guy might not agree. Beauty is relative. Your shuttle bus looks too little like an RV and too much like a shuttle bus. Many of us on here have private coaches which are seen in a widely different light at campgrounds than skoolies or shuttle buses or van dweller conversions and in some cases rightly so as we've experienced first hand recently with a skoolie dweller who recently posted a lot of objectionable concepts before being banned from the forum. I don't know you personally but I do know several people who have made it their life calling to save the planet and go carbon neutral...and that's an applaudable goal, but a few of my earth friendly friends are vitriolic themselves at times and in the name of protest, animal rights, and earth day, they can be downright nasty to people they don't agree with. I'm sincerely hoping you are the sweetest most gentle and peaceful individual as your YouTube video suggests, but that also might be naive of me. In any case, sorry to hear about the way you were treated. We've had our share of discrimination because we live in a coach, so it's nothing new to me...and I personally do think our bus is beautiful: (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/2fb0a00f03e90b2233e6bad32a39e101.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: bigred on December 12, 2017, 05:01:48 PM
Look down low on the PS side of the vehicle .Mine is right in front of the front wheel.That is where it is on my CC .I really can't see Liberty building a conversion with out one.
You will have to trust me. I have had three Liberty coaches over 27 years and none had the sticker. CC built conventional motor homes so they likely had all their products built to that standard. Liberty only does conversions and likely is unaffected by the lack of a sticker.
Quote from: Jon on December 13, 2017, 05:22:01 AM
You will have to trust me. I have had three Liberty coaches over 27 years and none had the sticker. CC built conventional motor homes so they likely had all their products built to that standard. Liberty only does conversions and likely is unaffected by the lack of a sticker.
O K !!! I figured they hid it like they did on mine. CC sure didn't give it an important place on mine .Matter of fact ,I would never have found it had I not hand waxed they bottom painted part of mine!!
You never know where you find a RVIA sticker any longer since for the past 15 or 20 years they are just a peel and stick foil sticker mine is in the friggn electrical panel
Think I'll just slap on the gold medallion that used to encircle the door bell button on my once all electric house--let 'em try to figure that out. ???
Jack
Jeanine, I think with your academic credentials you deserve to be taken seriously by the management of Thousand Trails. They are part of Equity Lifestyle Properties, Inc., based in Chicago. A well written letter to the appropriate manager should get some results.
Regarding making your conversion look more authentic, I would look at the many small RV's by various manufacturers that are very similar in size to shuttle buses. Where you can, copy what has been done by them to achieve an appearance that blends in. Your solar panel might have stirred the most concern with the excess wire on the outside so that you could put it in better positions when parked. I would put the wire in a concealed position when not in use. I would also (for your own safety) ensure that everything in the shuttle bus is secured so that it will not fly around if you stop quick or have an accident. Hopefully, you have a rear exit door, emergency windows, and roof hatches. With all of the hanging objects in the bus, things must swing around a lot.
I see that you did your undergraduate work at Boston University, my brother is an Associate Professor there (Forensic Archaeology). I have 48 graduate hours (ABD) in Environmental Studies/Environmental Ethics, and I find the concepts of Deep Ecology, Ecofeminism, and Speciesism to be very interesting, despite my blowing carbon into the air with my Eagles.
FYI - An RVIA sticker will not found on 4 of the 5 recommended Prevost converters. Only Featherlite is an RVIA member. What a joke.
Emerald Luxury Coaches
Featherlite Coaches
Liberty Coach, Inc.
Marathon Coach, Inc.
Millennium Luxury Coaches
Also, here is the definition in the legal TT terms.
"Camping vehicle" and/or "recreational vehicle" means any
vehicle that comfortably sleeps one or more persons overnight
on an extended basis. We recognize motor homes, travel
trailers, folding trailers, pickup campers and conversion vans
as camping vehicles and/or recreational vehicles. Camping
vehicles must be operable and in good condition as determined
in our discretion.
What a joke #2.
I have called Thousand Trails twice in the past two days to find out what their rules are regarding RVIA stickers but I still have not received a call back from them. So I am concerned about their Customer Service as I was considering buying a membership myself but I like to ensure I get good customer service before signing up for anything. I will be second thinking this membership now. >:(
Hey Gary,
After seeing the post about TT and hearing about it before but not taking time to check it out, I am engaged in a conversation with a sales rep at TT. I explained that my "friend" experienced this reported incident and explained that it would only make sense for me to join up if my converted coach met the terms of "recreational vehicle" as defined in the term sheet.
I'm sending her more pics and details of my coach and she said she has sent this up the chain before, so I'll keep you posted. There are plenty of stated constraints in the details but if you get just one or two stays it pays for itself. Naturally, your journey's route is somewhat dictated by the resorts in their portfolio.
Her email provided decent discounts off the published pricing and the Trails Connection might be a worthwhile add on to expand options.
Will keep you posted, do the same.
Don
Quote from: windtrader on December 13, 2017, 04:29:36 PM
Hey Gary,
After seeing the post about TT and hearing about it before but not taking time to check it out, I am engaged in a conversation with a sales rep at TT. I explained that my "friend" experienced this reported incident and explained that it would only make sense for me to join up if my converted coach met the terms of "recreational vehicle" as defined in the term sheet.
I'm sending her more pics and details of my coach and she said she has sent this up the chain before, so I'll keep you posted. There are plenty of stated constraints in the details but if you get just one or two stays it pays for itself. Naturally, your journey's route is somewhat dictated by the resorts in their portfolio.
Her email provided decent discounts off the published pricing and the Trails Connection might be a worthwhile add on to expand options.
Will keep you posted, do the same.
Don
Thanks for looking into this too Don. I will post here what they tell me as the person I talked to didn't know much so a manager is supposed to call me.
Gary
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on December 13, 2017, 04:03:28 PM
I have called Thousand Trails twice in the past two days to find out what their rules are regarding RVIA stickers but I still have not received a call back from them. So I am concerned about their Customer Service as I was considering buying a membership myself but I like to ensure I get good customer service before signing up for anything. I will be second thinking this membership now. >:(
they have a FB page..rampant with issues, most unfavorable. misrepresentation the most common.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=306442599366319&ref=br_rs (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=306442599366319&ref=br_rs)
Gary they will probably call you back sometime once they have all your info and offer you a weekend for free to stay at 1 of three TT's not very close to you and then if you go they will try and sell you a space. If you want a space go on C-list or similar and look at buying a member sold space instead foe a bunch less and sometimes you only have to pay for the transfer of title.
Some of the TT's are good but most now days seem to squeeze a lot of spots in for a high price.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on December 13, 2017, 05:34:20 PM
Gary they will probably call you back sometime once they have all your info and offer you a weekend for free to stay at 1 of three TT's not very close to you and then if you go they will try and sell you a space. If you want a space go on C-list or similar and look at buying a member sold space instead foe a bunch less and sometimes you only have to pay for the transfer of title.
Some of the TT's are good but most now days seem to squeeze a lot of spots in for a high price.
As "connected" as Gary is they should offer him a "comped" visit at the resort of his choice! Shoot he even knows Clifford and Van! :o
;D BK ;D
I have read quite a few reviews, and it sounds like they will be out of business in a few years. Contracts are worthless when the company declares bankruptcy. Class action suit would be the only option, and it should be started now.
I did notice that their website is very scant on details---unless you hit the "BUY NOW" button. ;D
Still little history here but it seems in years past, TT was like a timeshare scheme and required multiple thousand dollar buy ins. Currently, the offer is no need to buy any share, you just pay annually around 500 for access to the network of parks.
For example, for me living in NorCal and loving Pismo Beach, there is a park backed up to Oceano State Park. With a single 14 day stay, the annual fee is pretty much covered. Any stays beyond that are "free". So, very little risk compared to the timeshare schemes.
There are many of those older memberships for sale and ppl want all sorts of money for a worthless membership share.
That said, I haven't checked out the actual reservation and usage comments. Unless you can get decent reservations, even 500 bucks is too much. If you can fairly easily get reservations at places you want to visit, then it may be a pretty decent buy.
Hi All, there's a thousand trails in Acton,CA that's also called Encore, that you can stay at for normal fees, lvmci...
They have "Zone Passes" for different parts of the country. If you are going to be in one area for a good amount of time and they have enough parks that you want to stay in, it can be an ok deal. You buy it for a year,( be sure to cancel in writing at the end of the time if you aren't going to do it the next year.) And you can use it as much as you like.....you can stay for up to 4 days and then move to another park for up to 4 days. We used one on the Wa. and Oregon coast one year and just went from one to another for the summer. First 30 or maybe it was 50? days stay are covered by the buy price if i remember right, and then after that it was $3 or $4 a day and maybe a $2 electrical surcharge.
Hasn't 1000 Trails been bought and sold 2 or 3 times in the last 5 years expanding their park network ? I know they manage some federal parks that are included in the network.That really pisses me off. we have a place we go to in Idaho and park on the river and the last time we were there it was reserved for 1000 Trails members
Quote from: luvrbus on December 14, 2017, 06:24:53 AM... the last time we were there it was reserved for 1000 Trails members
I've never been involved with TT but *that* pisses me off, too.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on December 12, 2017, 12:51:53 PM
We had a 1000 Trails membership for several years. There's a wide variety of personalities end up being hired as their managers. You certainly don't go to 1000 Trails parks for consistency. This is probably not winnable at the specific park but it is also not likely to be relevant at the next park. I'd move on.
Unfortunately, because of what the Mean Manager wrote up, I'm prohibited from entering **any** Thousand Trails Parks, even though the original TT park loved having me there.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on December 13, 2017, 12:42:45 AM
I would love to hear both sides of this interaction. We only know one side of the story....and my gut tells me there's another side. Let me be completely frank...we all think our buses are beautiful...but the next guy might not agree. In any case, sorry to hear about the way you were treated. We've had our share of discrimination because we live in a coach, so it's nothing new to me...and I personally do think our bus is beautiful: (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/2fb0a00f03e90b2233e6bad32a39e101.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I agree: there are always two sides. And yes, it isn't just about beauty - it's about safety. I am 100% onboard with ensuring we all drive and live in
SAFE bus conversions and motorhomes, which is why I've been so careful about maintaining both the outside and inside of my bus conversion.
In this case, it is clearly discrimination and the inconsistent application of undefined "rules." If Thousand Trails - or any Park for that matter - is going to discriminate against
ALL bus conversions, they need to say so, up front, in their membership guidelines. At present, they don't - and no one told me they did, when I called to sign up for my membership and discussed my bus conversion with the TT staff member at length.
If Thousand Trails - or any Park - is concerned about safety, then they need to have some sort of consistent method for applying that, and for helping their members to meet the appropriate safety goals. This is what I am trying to ascertain.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on December 13, 2017, 11:57:45 AM
Jeanine, I think with your academic credentials you deserve to be taken seriously by the management of Thousand Trails. They are part of Equity Lifestyle Properties, Inc., based in Chicago. A well written letter to the appropriate manager should get some results.
Regarding making your conversion look more authentic, I would look at the many small RV's by various manufacturers that are very similar in size to shuttle buses. Where you can, copy what has been done by them to achieve an appearance that blends in. Your solar panel might have stirred the most concern with the excess wire on the outside so that you could put it in better positions when parked. I would put the wire in a concealed position when not in use. I would also (for your own safety) ensure that everything in the shuttle bus is secured so that it will not fly around if you stop quick or have an accident. Hopefully, you have a rear exit door, emergency windows, and roof hatches. With all of the hanging objects in the bus, things must swing around a lot.
Howdy! Excellent suggestions. Not sure how I will re-wire the solar panel, but will look into it.
You might be interested to know that very few items in my bus "shift around" - I have a complex system where everything is glued, magnetized, bungie-corded, screwed in, or otherwise stored whenever I move. Virtually everything that hangs is stored during transport, then pulled out when I park for any length in time.
And yes, I have a rear door and emergency windows - but no roof hatch (unless and until I install a sunroof, which would be a fun thing to have).
I will eventually be writing a letter to Thousand Trails...IF I decide to continue my membership with them. Given how nastily I was treated, I'm not yet sure I want to stay with TT.
Quote from: windtrader on December 13, 2017, 04:29:36 PM
Hey Gary,
After seeing the post about TT and hearing about it before but not taking time to check it out, I am engaged in a conversation with a sales rep at TT. I explained that my "friend" experienced this reported incident and explained that it would only make sense for me to join up if my converted coach met the terms of "recreational vehicle" as defined in the term sheet.
(...)
Will keep you posted, do the same.
Don
Don, do please keep all of us posted. As I noted in an earlier post, the inconsistent application of their "rules" or definitions is an issue for any person with a bus conversion.
As an educator, scientist, and community advocate, I would like to be part of an effort to ensure that all of us are successful with our bus conversions -
successful in the sense that we are living in lovely, functional, healthy, and safe units, without being unjustly discriminated against.
Jeanine
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on December 13, 2017, 04:03:28 PM
I have called Thousand Trails twice in the past two days to find out what their rules are regarding RVIA stickers but I still have not received a call back from them. So I am concerned about their Customer Service as I was considering buying a membership myself but I like to ensure I get good customer service before signing up for anything. I will be second thinking this membership now. >:(
Gary - here is the exact text of the letter Thousand Trails sent to me.
Note that they gave me no information or specific details about what was wrong, or what I need to do to change, alter, or fix things.
"I am writing in reference to the vehicle you currently use to camp in.
The current definition, in our member rules, for camping vehicle is the following: "Camping vehicle" and/or "recreational vehicle" means any vehicle that comfortably sleeps one or more persons overnight on an extended basis. We recognize motor homes, travel trailers, folding trailers, pickup campers and conversion vans as camping vehicles and/or recreational vehicles. Camping vehicles must be operable and in good conditions as determined in our discretion."
That being said, the camping vehicle you currently use to camp does not meet Thousand Trails standards and therefore you will not be allowed to camp in this vehicle for any future reservations at any Thousand Trails preserve.
Please consider this letter as notification that your membership has been temporarily suspended until you have a camping vehicle that meets Thousand Trails standards. During this time you can still use your membership for day use, tent camping or rental usage, but your current camping vehicle will not be allowed in any Thousand Trails Preserve.
Should this continue, your membership may be suspended further or terminated and you will not be allowed access to any Thousand Trails preserve as a member and/or guest.
In closing, I appreciate your understanding and compliance regarding this suspension and sincerely hope that you understand the severity of these incidents.
Sincerely,
Leslie Blackwell
Member Services Manager
@Clifford - it sure has had a hot potato history. These folks are like shady used car sales ppl. Like I said, I'd only buy in once I knew I'd get my first two week stay locked in. That alone would be worth the annual fee, any other use would be "free". Otherwise I'll keep these folks about as far as that dead stinking skunk down the road. lol
MHC Thousand Trails Limited Partnership ("Thousand
Trails" or "we," "us," or "our") is a wholly owned indirect
subsidiary of Equity Lifestyle Properties, Inc. ("ELS").
Thousand Trails, the successor to a company that was founded
in 1969, operates a membership program that enables buyers
of a Thousand Trails Camping Pass to camp at over 80
campgrounds (called "preserves") in 22 states and British
Columbia. ELS is publicly traded and owns and operates over
380 properties in 30 states. Thousand Trails' and ELS' address
is Two N. Riverside Plaza, Suite 800, Chicago, IL 60606.
In 1991, Thousand Trails and another membership campground company, NACO (National American Corporation) both came under the umbrella of the newly formed USTrails, Inc. (which took the name Thousand Trails, Inc., in 1996).[2] Concurrent with this consolidation, USTrails filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in May 1991.[3]
In 1999, Thousand Trails, Inc., purchased the holding company that owned Leisure Time Resorts of America, Inc., a network of ten membership campgrounds in Washington and Oregon.[4] Since that time, ownership has changed repeatedly: the private equity firm of Kohlberg & Co. purchased Thousand Trails for $113 million in 2003,[5] Privileged Access Gp. Corp. of Frisco, Texas bought it in 2006,[6] and Equity Lifestyle Properties bought it in 2008.[7]
Encore Royalty Club, L.L.C. ("Encore") is a Delaware limited
liability company doing business as The Trails Collection.
Encore's address is 2325 Highway 90, Gautier, MS 39553.
Encore operates a reciprocal use program (the "Program") that
allows participating TCP holders to use campsites and other
facilities at the RV resorts affiliated with the Program. A list
of the RV resorts currently affiliated with the Program is set
forth on our website at www.thetrailscollection.com (http://www.thetrailscollection.com) (the
"Affiliated Resorts").
TT (imo), is a vehicle to speculate in real estate holdings anticipating future equity returns at your expense, providing service isn't even a thought.
Donald,
you are right! Check out their stock price ELS, very very nice investment.
Unfortunately it seems there is discrimination in a great deal of RV parks. I have no specific experience with TT, but over the last 28 years of coach ownership I have heard a lot of negative comments and my gut reaction is it is like the "timeshare" of the RV industry. It may be a great place and opportunity but the negative remarks seem to suggest otherwise.
Having said that we know there are RV parks that use the occupant's age or the age of the coach to restrict entry. Some RV parks do not want young people and use an age like 55 as the cutoff point for occupants. If you travel with grandchildren you have to go somewhere else. We have discussed often the RV parks that will not allow coaches over 10 years of age for example. My response to those is if they ask my coach's age I know they have a restriction about to be revealed so I respond by asking the age of the RV park. If it is over 10 years of age, I just let them know I have a personal policy of only staying at new RV parks and I go away. I'd rather spend the night at a Cracker Barrel than support a discriminatory policy.
Will allow the poster to use a tent but not his bus ??? ??? ??? what BS
I just called TT again today and they transferred me to their home office in Chicago and I explained they are getting some negative comments about their company on our Forum and then that person transferred me to another company where I left another message. I still have not had a chance to talk to anyone at this company that keeps telling me someone in authority will return my call but never does. I told them this is the last attempt to reach someone regarding this matter and to call me back with a clarification of their rules. But at this time I am not holding my breath and do not plan on joining this organization if they have such poor customer service. I left three message so far over the past three days and not one person has called me back. >:(
While we are at it, there is another one we run into every so often when checking in. They ask us if we are members and we say of what. They say we are a "Coast to Coast Resort" We keep a few spots open for non members and they always let us stay with no extra charge. Sounds like same kind of thing but nicer.
And I went and looked in my Bus and sure enough we have a certified sticker from the state of California RV division.
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on December 14, 2017, 11:56:39 AM
I just called TT again today and they transferred me to their home office in Chicago and I explained they are getting some negative comments about their company on our Forum and then that person transferred me to another company where I left another message.
Gary -Sounds to me like a good story for BCM!
;)
Quote from: RJ on December 14, 2017, 02:54:50 PM
Gary -
Sounds to me like a good story for BCM!
;)
Gary -
I agree! I'd love to write this up as a story for the Bus Conversion Magazine, if you are interested (I have an extensive writing and publishing background). We can use our back-and-forths with Thousand Trails as a case study. I no longer have any emotional attachment to the outcome (which makes going forward fun, instead of frustrating), as I have plenty of other options.
Jeanine
Quote from: The Champion Challenger on December 14, 2017, 03:02:00 PM
Gary -
I agree! I'd love to write this up as a story for the Bus Conversion Magazine, if you are interested (I have an extensive writing and publishing background). We can use our back-and-forths with Thousand Trails as a case study. I no longer have any emotional attachment to the outcome (which makes going forward fun, instead of frustrating), as I have plenty of other options.
Jeanine
This would be great Jeanine, but before putting any words to paper, please contact me for the article guidelines. I was considering asking you to write a story about your bus so perhaps you can send us a couple of articles. You have my number.
nice sticker Dave. It probably gets you over the first hurdle - it IS a camping vehicle. They can still send you running at their discretion. You'll be one more post on the complaint board. It seems very few here on BCM have direct experience with TT so it will be interesting to follow the story about getting them to pre-approve OTR coach conversions. They got a pile of pics and specs of mine. crickets so far. lol
"Camping vehicle" and/or "recreational vehicle" means any
vehicle that comfortably sleeps one or more persons overnight
on an extended basis. We recognize motor homes, travel
trailers, folding trailers, pickup campers and conversion vans
as camping vehicles and/or recreational vehicles. Camping
vehicles must be operable and in good condition as determined
in our discretion.
If I have to prove I am worthy of staying at any RV park as far as I am concerned they can stick the entire park where the sun don't shine.
Since when does a coach's age, appearance, type or the age of the occupants matter? My only concern is some folks on here seem as discriminatory toward Champion Challenger because she doesn't have a "real" bus. Hey kettle, the pot is calling.
Don we have never been turned down (even in a Thousand Trail Preserve) and generally people come over and want to know all about it. One place on the Delta ask us to send them a picture of it when they ask the age of the coach and we did and they said no problem come ahead. So if your coach is a mess or smokes up a storm or has electrical cords hanging off the bumper, broken windows, leaking black tank or you are dumping grey tank on the ground where not approved, Then I believe they have the right to turn you down. After all it is their Business.
Have watched the video above and believe the Manager didn't know what she was looking at because so many don't know that people can actually build their own. I also know the area down there where she was and it is "Nose Up in the air type of place" and she is used to those kind of people coming in through what she considers her gate.
Ok I will say it because no body else will, Here the bottom line...
As far as helping anyone else out with your idea so that they won't block you out...
As far as Electrical Inspections and RVIA stickers and More Government control on yet more things we all don't want or to pay for, I believe you will be opening yourself up to a big can of worms that no one wants opened IMHO. Respectfully ;D
Here is a thought about park rules seemingly discriminating about some camping vehicles. It would not be surprising the commercial insurance policies covering these parks include clear definitions about the kinds of vehicles allowed to stay and the specific uses on the premises. In fact, such language would define the foundation of the liability aspects of the coverage.
QuoteAs an educator, scientist, and community advocate, I would like to be part of an effort to ensure that all of us are successful with our bus conversions - successful in the sense that we are living in lovely, functional, healthy, and safe units, without being unjustly discriminated against.
Even Dr. P speaks directly to the need for healthy and safe units. Unfortunately, as Dave states, it would be one huge cluster Fk (my words)for a certification program for DIY conversions. Not going to happen and if it did it would harm the movement more than support it.
As it is, we OTR conversions get a real free card through the loopholes in the current laws. I'd be the first to fight and snuff out any effort that brings this into the light of legislators or govt. regulators. Nothing personal, Dr. P. I am certain all DIY bus converter busnuts don't want anything that jeopardizes the status quo.
An analogy is the fate of DIY car kit builders. There is a huge amount of regulation on building your own motor vehicle you plan to put on the road. Safety and environmental considerations are foremost and the rules in this space are suffocating.
No ones discriminating...but, most know what the bear did in the buckwheat.
Have you ever look at the wiring and plumbing on a RV with RVIA sticker lol home converters beat the mid entry RV's by a long shot,RVIA is self governing body by the RV manufactures has nothing to do with safety or quality workmanship
Clifford - I know nothing so... But common sense guides me that a coach coming from a production shop that is RVIA certified likely meets some minimum standard that the insurance and DOT find acceptable. Compare that with the totally unregulated bus conversions done by us. There is assurance of any minimum standard. Not saying that we don't do as good, maybe a lot better than RVIA standard; it is just there is zero verification process for us. I have zero idea which are safer but there is no way to know. don
Quote from: luvrbus on December 15, 2017, 01:02:25 PM
Have you ever look at the wiring and plumbing on a RV with RVIA sticker lol home converters beat the mid entry RV's by a long shot,RVIA is self governing body by the RV manufactures has nothing to do with safety or quality workmanship
yup RVIA and TT and FMCA and most other acronyms... money harvesters.. the how many annual subscribers can we get to keep us at the top living in tall cotton.
I think that the applicable acronym here with regard to requiring stickers is CYA.
The RVIA sticker is there to give the end consumer some peace of mind that thier new RV will make it through the warranty period.
Matt
Donald,
After Google the phrase "bear in the buckwheat", I agree with this whole topic. lol
Quote from: windtrader on December 15, 2017, 01:06:34 PM
Clifford - I know nothing so... But common sense guides me that a coach coming from a production shop that is RVIA certified likely meets some minimum standard that the insurance and DOT find acceptable. Compare that with the totally unregulated bus conversions done by us. There is assurance of any minimum standard. Not saying that we don't do as good, maybe a lot better than RVIA standard; it is just there is zero verification process for us. I have zero idea which are safer but there is no way to know. don
I saw Country Coaches not the buses but the RV's high dollar units being built with 4 friggn 1/2 inch bolts holding the house part to the frame when National owed Country Coach.Only reason Feather Lite has the sticker is because Mitchel was a member while he was building Vogues.I been looking at a 2009 BlueBird it has no RVIA sticker that I can find anyways
Quote from: luvrbus on December 15, 2017, 01:31:53 PM
I saw Country Coaches not the buses but the RV's high dollar units being built with 4 friggn 1/2 inch bolts holding the house part to the frame when National owed Country Coach.Only reason Feather Lite has the sticker is because Mitchel was a member while he was building Vogues.I been looking at a 2009 BlueBird it has no RVIA sticker that I can find anyways
That's 2 full inches! What's the problem there? ::)
LOL yea that RV listed for over $750,000.00
Who wants or needs a sticker from a group of self regulating co-conspirators who seek to exclude competition all the whilst still choosing to build their frames out of wood and glue. I'm not sorry to choose the conversion route regardless of the size, shape or paint job. I'll be happy to reconsider my opinion when the market is flooded with 50+ year old factory built, association approved units.
Welcome to yet another debate over freedom vs regulation Dr. P. I am sure your no stranger to its grip whether over climate change, gun rights, living standards or appearance. Freedom comes in many forms.
Quote from: Jon on December 12, 2017, 12:35:20 PM
My Prevost doesn't have an RVIA sticker.
Neither does mine, what in the heck is it, I have never ever had ANY place or person even ask for it.
Not all RV manufactures are a member of RVIA ,you see those tags on travel trailers,motor homes and truck conversions,lol it justifies stapling a piece of Romex to a 2x2 and terminating at a combined built in plastic plug and box it is a Joke
Yes, that way the joke can be consistent across various brands. I would imagine that some items have been improved in the process, like not using aluminum wiring, not using rubber hose for coolant lines, using nec appoved switches and breakers. I'm sure there has been benefits, although it may not cover some standards on construction, like staples wood quality etc. In the effort to lighten and cheapen the materials used, some probably got away from original scope of the goals.
Sorry to hear of your problem, we were at the Thousand trail at Morgan Hill last month. The ranger did a walk around our 1962 GM 4106, we ask what this was all about. Answer " because of the park closer and evacuation (flooded last winter) they what to make sure all rigs are road ready and can leave at a moment notice. We also attended the monthly managers meeting and she (manager) was very good and knew the workings of Thousand trail, after the meeting she can by our site thank us for going to the meet and liked our coach.
Never heard about Thousand Trails but have the thought that you have what you can afford in a camper and should make it look nice on the outside as you do on the inside. Makes no diff what the vehicle is. Stay at a place here in Texas that has a 10 year rule, owned and run by a Father and Son team. My coach is 27 years old and looks like it did when it rolled out of the converter shop back in 1991. Good bright custom paint job by Prevost that has never faded as it's been stored inside its whole life when not out. Over a beer they said they will keep out even the newer ones if they don't look/appear in good shape. Even look at the tires. ::) Makes no diff what make they are. Just try and make sure yours look nice rolling and no problems as I see it.
Figured I'd post an update on Thousand Trails position on accepting bus conversions. Big ZERO. never heard back from anyone there who said anything meaningful on the topic. I'm not bothering pursuing it any further but this discussion should advice others to think twice about this group. Gary may have something to add.
I talked to one of the higher managers at Thousand Trails about three weeks ago that said they will look into this complaint and I gave her the URL to the thread to read. She never got back to me and none of the previous calls I made to others in the company were ever returned. It must be nice to own a really big company with lots of people buying a product so if you loose a few customers and get bad publicity, you won't care. >:( Needless to say, any thoughts I personally had about joining TT are now gone.