The 'new' bus we're bringing home soon has an LP tank and it appears a 3-way fridge.
I don't yet know the make/model of the fridge, but from the information I've gathered it is a 3-way which was installed in 1974. There is an LP tank system on board which I assume can power the furnace, the fridge, and possibly the hot water heater. This is based on the external venting visible.
So, my question is this...
In general terms, what would be the process for checking the LP system over to ensure that 1) It's safe, 2) It's compatible with current reg's for filling tanks, and 3) That the fridge is not one of the explosive/flame throwing varieties?
I already know to check for visible leaks. That's self evident. What I'm looking for is some general information from someone who has actually brought back to life an older LP system which has not been used for some time. If nothing else, I'd appreciate being pointed to some good resources on the subject.
Our previous coach was electric and diesel only. No LP. I have no experience with LP other than the stuff that comes in small metal bottles.
Other than ensuring that the current tank is firmly closed (or removed if there is a doubt), I wasn't planning to take any action before getting the bus home. My plan till then was to spend some time getting together a game plan and picking up some facts on the subject.
Richard
In my bus they have it set up to take 2 30 lb bottles, so if that is the case they will tell you when you refill them if they are outdated and needing replaced.
I manage an RV dealership, and when my guys check LP system they use a manometer do a pressure drop test to see if there is a leak anywhere. Keep pressure for three minutes.
When I replaced my fridge recently I debated extensively over switching to residential electric or three way. My experienced techs told me a lot of the flame issues are due to improper ventilation on the fridges. They installed a 12 volt power fan to help vent my new fridge.
1st the 1974 fridge will be all manual none of electronics stuff on 1 ,the tank (DOT) if frame mounted requires no new certification like bottles only thing it requires is the OPD valve which if it has been filled in the last 20 some odd years will have it.
Any good propane dealer can test for leaks most charge around 25 bucks ,about the only place they will show a leak is at the regulator from age, if you see oily spots at fittings or on the regulator you have a leak.
On a old system I make sure there is no flame and turn it on for about 1 hr if you have a leak you can smell the Captan they add to propane for smell.
The old systems were about bullet proof the newer stuff is different with the cheap stuff they use now.If the fridge has been sitting a long time it may not work till you drive it for a while and the Ammonia starts to circulate
If it is a 120vac / 12vdc / propane fridge, it will use a LOT of amps at 12vdc. So, if you need to run it on 12vdc, keep a close watch on the batteries. . . .
Running on 12v they just cool it will never get down to 40 degrees or less
Replacing the fridge is high on my list. I like being able to keep things cool without using the batteries, but it sounds like a replacement with a Novakool 12vda/120vac unit.
Richard
Old LP systems I just assume that nothing is OK, and replace everything. Iron pipes I might keep, anything rubber is gone. appliances I would probably change out for new. The only old thing I kept is our fridge, and it I pulled and completely inspected. Everything else I replaced.
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on October 08, 2017, 05:59:56 PM
Old LP systems I just assume that nothing is OK, and replace everything. Iron pipes I might keep, anything rubber is gone. appliances I would probably change out for new. The only old thing I kept is our fridge, and it I pulled and completely inspected. Everything else I replaced.
Brian
What goes bad on the heaters & cook top ?
I like propane for the fridge and cook top and water heater and the Biggest thing the BBQ !
when I installed the 3 way fridge on the mci I used a 2nd outside vent up high above the regular vent on the outside at the fridge so you could clean out the chimney every year
I found if you use the fridge on propane it would always keep it colder and when not on the pole and not using the genne it never used much propane
never liked the idea of having the genne running all the time when traveling and hated the guys that would run it ( genne ) all night
if propane is done right and kept up it is a good use of power
dave
I don't like 3 way fridges. I have a 9cu/ft Nova Kool and am pleased with it. Has bottom compressor and vents out the front-so you can plug up both the wall and roof vents. Good Luck, TomC
I never have a problem with a propane fridge the 12 v option on 1 is not good,people are using the house type more everyday due to the cost of propane fridges 200 bucks vs the 1000 bucks for propane fridges.
I am like
Dave though I do not like to camp close to people running the generator 5 or 6 hrs a day to keep their battery bank charged to run the house type lol Quartszite is a good example.If you are looking for a good DC fridge buy a Sunfrost
Sunfrost makes thee most efficient refrigerator/freezers. The main problem though, unless you build the bus to accept them, they are all 34.5" wide and 27.75" deep-and really expensive.
If you want an apartment sized refrigerator, Summit refrigerators have many sizes closer to what will fit in the bus. Good Luck, TomC
My comments are related the 3-way Norcold frig. The manual states not to use the DC except for some temporary use, like while travelling to next destination. AC works fine on shore. Propane is the choice for boondock mode. A 5 gallon tank runs the frig for two weeks. It is a bit of pain to switch tanks then have to refill them.
Far more convenient is solar which is being planned now and going to run the frig on AC all the time. If solar system is sized properly, energy to frig will be free and convenient.
when it is hot out I found that the propane would keep the fridge colder then on electric
dave
Quote from: kyle4501 on October 08, 2017, 06:21:36 PM
What goes bad on the heaters & cook top ?
What I saw was corrosion at the burners, and any plated steel parts, furnace cracking of the heat chamber, ditto water heater. Just normal age related stuff, same as you need to get old propane/oil burner furnaces inspected for corrosion and cracking. The main byproduct of the flame is water vapor, after all. We are talking a 1974 install, 45 years old...
It is an old system, true. Vehicle only has 40k miles though (actual miles - not since conversion), and I'm not sure if the LP system was actually even used. I'll find out more when I pick up the bus next week. The cooktop is electric, and I believe it currently has an electric-only water heater installed. Current owner has never opened access door to LP tanks.
I see no signs of diesel furnace onboard, so my suspicion is that the LP also powers the furnace.
Aside from all that, it does look like the fridge is a 3-way, definitely an older one. That's where my main concern lies. I've read about various recalls on these, but wasn't sure if there was a master list somewhere of all the models through the years that have been recalled. I'll probably change it out in the spring to something new, but for now I wanted to be sure not to miss some safety check that would cause a problem.
Richard
Richard most RV's of that era were Propane or Butane that was a little before the time of diesel fired heating,the propane appliances of that era were pretty durable the restores of vintage RV's pay big bucks for those
The fridge has a burner chimney in the back, the flame heats the ammonia bulb and the heat follows the chimney, promoting condensation in and around. First step is simply examine the burner, the surrounding area, check for rust, holes blown in the chimney, etc. But I have to say I am a fan of appliances that don't have computers in them... The recall was mostly Dometic fridges between 1997 and 2006. http://67.238.126.140/ (http://67.238.126.140/)
Brian
From back in 70's propane fridges were sensitive to coach being not level. They have fixed that problem mostly. The main thing they were good for was keeping the food cold.Sometimes some would have issues with fresh food freezing, and they would report they drew lots of power when on battery and would suck down house batteries in fairly short order. AC was preferred if off propane. The other option back then was 12/ 110 volt type fridges. They worked decent on battery with the efficient swing motor they use, but sufficient cooling was always an issue. You would run a small fan at bottom to get better air flow over the coils and people would buy the tiny fridge fans that ran on 2 D cells and place them inside the fridge. Even that wouldn't help much if temps were in high 80's or more. They are improved now with mostly better insulation. Many people swear by Novakool these days on all the bus forums. If you need propane for other appliances anyway, then a 3 way would make sense. Household refers are nice and some are pretty energy efficient nowadays. With their efficiency labels now, go to Lowe's and find the most efficient one. One issue is getting it into coach and out in future if necessary. Space for one is going to be at a premium in a 4108 at 35 feet and with the stepped area at front of coach. And how much butchering would be required to fit it in in an already converted coach.
As with many other systems on the bus, you will need to inspect/test it. Certainly look for leaks. You can use soapy water at all connections as well as trying to detect an odor. If you want more than that, there are probably highly sensitive leak detectors available. Test the frig on 120v electric first. The heating element should get quite hot, if it doesn't, it may need to be replaced. It's not hard to change or expensive, but I would then try the unit on gas before putting money into anything. These frigs take a long time to cool down, so give it plenty of time. I have had several 3-way frigs but have never used 12v even once. Personally, I would continue to use what checked out and replace as needed.
Is the LP tank an upright or laydown type,,the uprights have to have the recent valve to be legal, the laydowns do not and are good to go.. If you need the LP side of the fridge to operate sooner just turn it upside down for a day then back up to circulate the ammonia,,good to go.>>>Dan
Now that I've had a chance to dig in a bit deeper, a brief update.
Apparently the fridge is a Norcold dual voltage. Kind of an the smaller side, kind of on the older side, but surprisingly still turns on. I'll wait till I'm home to leave it on for a while and see how it cools. If it's like the last bus, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked just fine.
There are two horizontal LP tanks. Each looks to be about the same size as what's on the back end of my old forklift. One of the tanks shows about 80% still in the tank. Can LP go bad with age?
Regulator seems to be in good shape externally, and the lines also look good. The only thing that currently is connected to the LP is the Suburban furnace. I don't think it's been run in years - the vents all had brown paper taped over them and the furnace looks nearly new. My guess is that the PO used only the electric heaters (there are three of them). I'll do some more inspection and testing before trying to light the furnace.
Since the LP is only a few feet from the water heater location, perhaps I'll be able to add an LP water heater and have hot water without being plugged in. We'll see.
Richard
That's good about the paper over vents. Common issue was bees and spiders and webs getting inside and causing starting issues. Is it auto lighting or pilot light? With propane shut off to it, it will probably take a bit to get gas to it to the first time. Those refers were very common and pretty reliable, although sufficient cooling was an issue it hot weather. People used fans at bottom to pass more air over the coils on those days. They make a dinosaur board for them if yours electronics crap out. If you don't have papers for furnace and heater, info is available online.
If it does not light up on the LP side take it out and turn it up side down for a few days and try again. This will get it circulating.
That sounds familure,, see above.>>>D
Sorry Dan didn't read that for some reason but you didn't either because read above "the uprights have to have the recent valve to be legal" Clifford said that also earlier. I guess we are getting old eh, LOL
Frame mounted DOT propane tanks require the updated OPD valve you don't have to it certified every 10 years. Plus you can remote mount a fill on the ASTM DOT tanks the fill does not need to be on the tank like a cylinder tank mine were always remote fill to a easy location for filling