Our 4106 is basically an all-electric coach, other than the diesel generator and diesel powered Webasto. Our current water heater is a 6-gallon 120vac unit bought at a local box store. It works well but has limitations. The main limitation is the necessity of having 120vac to make hot water. For many reasons, we're trying to limit the amount of times we run the generator as we move to adding solar next spring. The solar plus a larger battery bank should enable us to remain unplugged for most everything we need, other than hot water for washing & showers.
So far, I see the options listed below. Each has its pluses and minuses. I would love some feedback or suggestions for options I'm not considering.
1. Maintain the current system and just deal with running the generator as needed.
2. Install a marine hot water heater that runs on either 120vac or by running coolant through the heat exchange. This would of course give us hot water whenever the bus engine is running. It would also give hot water anytime we're running the Webasto. The up side of this is that no additional venting or plumbing is required other than adding another few pieces of heater hose to loop the Webasto. The Webasto and hot water heater are about 12" apart, so this would be easy. Down side is the potential for water contamination should there ever be a leak in the heat exchange. Also would mean that we'd essentially be forced to run the furnace whenever we need hot water, even in the summer. And, if the temp is over the upper limit for the thermostat the Webasto won't even fire unless I add a jumper to the system to bypass the thermostat.
3. Add LP to the bus and install a 120vac / LP hot water heater. Definite plus would be having hot water whenever we need it without shore power or generator. Big down side is having to move the water heater to a location against the bay door so that it would be possible to vent. (Current location is in center of bay) Would require cutting new venting for the LP burner, and would require add LP tank, regulator, and all necessary plumbing. Not too keen on adding another fuel and on having the LP tank onboard.
4. Solar hot water on roof. Haven't done too much research on this, but I imagine it's possible to install a smaller version of what's used throughout many parts of the planet to make domestic hot water. Would require some fancy engineering if I was to camp in colder seasons, which we plan to do. Would also require lots of new plumbing and would be a major project.
5. Heat a pot of water on portable LP range for washing. We've done this when the generator wasn't cooperative, but it's pretty hard to get a shower from a pot of water. If the trip had been more than a long weekend I'd be traveling alone from then on.
Does anyone know of a diesel fired hot water heater that is direct fire and not a heat exchange system?
Any other systems out there I'm not aware of?
Thanks.
Richard
Even if you find a diesel fired water heater, you would have to vent it.
Maybe one of these http://www.doctordiesel.com/index_files/page0003.htm (http://www.doctordiesel.com/index_files/page0003.htm)
Quote from: Lee Bradley on September 28, 2017, 04:44:24 PM
Even if you find a diesel fired water heater, you would have to vent it.
True, but assuming that it 'vents' the same as the Webasto, all it would need is a fresh air intake (easy) and an exhaust pipe run through the floor of the bay and out to the side of the bus (also easy).
The LP water heaters usually require mounting against an outside wall, and then they have that goofy looking intake/exhaust panel that goes on the outside of the bus.
Richard
After much consideration when we faced problems with our old water heater which was a 6gal gas/elect mounted in the middle of the bus with a vent system to the outside, we replaced it with kind. Except the new one also has a heat exchanger that we could connect to the engine cooling system or some other such as a Webasto that we don't have and probably never will. I thought instant hot water would be great, but 120V systems seem to be a joke and gas require extensive venting. I am very pleased with our new water heater and have yet to run out of hot water during a shower. It maintains hot water with the electric side, but kicks on the gas also when using it for quicker recovery. Of course, there are switches if you prefer just running off one or the other. Solar on the roof might be an option, but not here where it freezes every night, even in the middle of summer. Soon to be out of here, though. Hope that whatever you decide on you are happy with, that's the main thing. There probably isn't anything that doesn't have a compromise of some sort. Good luck. Will
Will - Can you describe how you vented an LP water heater from the middle of the bus to the outside? Maybe I just haven't found the correct unit yet, but the ones I've seen seem to indicate that the preferred way to install is against an outside wall.
Richard
Funny because Richard we are in the exact same boat. I have a 40 gallon electric water heater with two 2000 watt elements wired to two different breakers. When on the pole, we have 4000 watts of heating power which allows our tank to recover quick. 150°F water lasts a long long time so we've never run out. But when on genset, I only run one element to keep it hot. Recovery is slower of course but it works. I'd absolutely love a propane water heater tho. At that point my fridge and pump and lights are all that need juice. So I'm watching this thread with interest
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We had a marine style water heater in our 4104 and it worked great.True if a failure ever occurs,you could get antifreeze in your water. Highly unlikely though. To prevent that slight or remote possibility, just never use hot water for cooking or consumption if that is a concern for you. Other than that issue, it worked great. The coach would heat the water on the road, and it would stay hot for a couple of days while using without turning on the electric element. I would not hesitate to use one again. Current coach has a regular heater from previous owner. Will replace with marine type when it fails. If you have a large enough generator you could use a high wattage element to heat quickly. Then turn off when up to temp.
I am in the middle of freshening up a 5B for us to use. It had a LP 6 gal which wasn't enough supply. Today we installed an on demand LP,
Use the existing Webasto, get a flat plate heat exchanger, use the existing Webasto pump circuit, plumb the exchanger inline with your heat supply tank so whenever the Webasto is firing, you get access to making domestic hot water, and a new pump to circulate domestic water thru the exchanger.
Here's just one of many Google results: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Heat-Exchangers-821000 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/Heat-Exchangers-821000)
Simple to add a bypass wire to fire the Webasto, circulate the heat and not send any heat into the coach.
No need to add anymore parts, you have most of them now.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Buswarrior: Interesting idea that shouldn't really need that much to get going.
If I understand correctly, I would add a loop pumping water from the hot side of my current water heater, through the plate exchanger, and back into the cold side of the water heater. I imagine I could use another Bosch electric water pump to move the water similar to the one I'm using now to move the Webasto heat through a loop going to pre-heat the bus engine.
Do I need to add a water temp sensor to shut off the Webasto once the water heater reaches proper temp? Otherwise wouldn't it just keep going till the overtemp shut down kicked in? I'm thinking that I could use a DPDT switch to re-route the thermostat in the coach to the water temp sensor for use in warm weather. I could get a NC sensor with a preset open temp around 130-150 degrees, which should cycle the burner as needed to keep hot water hot.
You're correct - it should not be difficult to add a few jumpers to keep the Webasto burning in warm weather, but I'll also probably need to add a manual fan shut off switch to keep it from blowing into the coach.
What size heat exchanger do you think would be needed?
Richard
Tankless propane is the way to go, you can get them with a pilot light, electric powered by 2 D, cell batteries or 12volt, or 110ac...lvmci...
I've been thinking about a EZ 101 tankless. Not sure about how to install. Two D cells to run. If there is a will there's a way!!
Another way to go is to add another small Webasto in a loop off your current water heater. It will circulate and heat the water in the tank to about 180 degrees. If that is to hot add a tempering valve.
We have a bit bigger system. 2-10gal electric water heaters from HD. One feeds into the next with the final one wired through the inverter so we have hot water all day while driving, and hot water when we stop. I installed the two water heaters in 1994 and except for draining them once a year, have done absolutely nothing to them. And I know the anode is still working since the water stinks like sulfur when the bus has sat for several weeks. The two separate 10gal water heaters heat up in less than an hour from cold, shorter when warm. I don't think you could find a more dependable water heater than this-I like it so much, I'm repeating the 2 water heaters in my truck. Good Luck, TomC
Richard -
Our Angola Coach has an 11-gallon SeaLand marine water heater. Internal heat exchanger is tied into the coach's cooling system that feeds the main coach HVAC, thus generating "free" heat while rolling down the road. 120vac electric element for heating when parked.
Simple and efficient.
We like it.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
you could use a system like this with a loop off your system now . your Webasto should start and stop as needed and if you are on the poll you could use the elect . side
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=2092718 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=2092718)
dave
Quote from: richard5933 on September 28, 2017, 06:49:30 PM
Buswarrior: Interesting idea that shouldn't really need that much to get going.
If I understand correctly, I would add a loop pumping water from the hot side of my current water heater, through the plate exchanger, and back into the cold side of the water heater. I imagine I could use another Bosch electric water pump to move the water similar to the one I'm using now to move the Webasto heat through a loop going to pre-heat the bus engine.
Do I need to add a water temp sensor to shut off the Webasto once the water heater reaches proper temp? Otherwise wouldn't it just keep going till the overtemp shut down kicked in? I'm thinking that I could use a DPDT switch to re-route the thermostat in the coach to the water temp sensor for use in warm weather. I could get a NC sensor with a preset open temp around 130-150 degrees, which should cycle the burner as needed to keep hot water hot.
You're correct - it should not be difficult to add a few jumpers to keep the Webasto burning in warm weather, but I'll also probably need to add a manual fan shut off switch to keep it from blowing into the coach.
What size heat exchanger do you think would be needed?
Richard
If it were me... you are verging on too many parts now, only need to add the exchanger and a pump for the domestic hot water circulation, an anti-scald valve for safety, and a 3-way valve for coolant return efficiency.
In the wiring, step back and re-think the whole system, adding and adding more switches to half bake an existing system isn't good design...
Control the Webasto, control the water heater, control the coach heat. Don't intertwine the controlling of them.
The Webasto should regulate itself by design at 160 degrees, or it has been monkeyed with...
So, when turned on, the Webasto will make a supply of hot coolant somewhere at 160 degrees, and maintain that. Nothing else happens, it cycles as needed to maintain that. Insulate all of this piping and tankage for more efficient operation.
Then, as commanded by you, the coach heat may be engaged, and it's thermostats take care of fan on and off to regulate the temp.
And, in the warm weather, the domestic hot water needs are not an ongoing run, you turn it and the Webasto on, get the hot water tank up to temp and shut it all off.
A three-way valve in the return from the plate heat exchanger lets you use the same loop/hoses/pump as the engine pre-heat. The 3-way short cuts the return back to the Webasto supply for efficient operation (no need to heat the engine block), or directs the flow the long way thru the engine block. Depending on how this loop is set, you will be able to get hot engine coolant to give you free heat into this entire system, while driving down the road.
WARNING!!! in using these higher temp sources, a busnut MUST install an anti-scalding valve in all good conscience and safety for all who touch the coach. Engine temp domestic hot water, which will be up at 180 degrees, will BURN and disfigure.
So, in conclusion, a busnut has to keep the parts count down... and the mind blowing thought processes complicated...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Keep making these systems more elaborate and in a couple of years, when you start having issues, you better know how to diagnose and repair many yourself or the enjoyment of a conversion can quickly wane. Add engine electronics, inverter, battery, solar, and generator systems,and can be overwhelming when two or more systems take a crap at the same time out in middle of nowhere, esp in very hot or very cold temps. KISS didn't come out of nowhere. Just food for thought.
Quote from: richard5933 on September 28, 2017, 05:01:30 PM
Will - Can you describe how you vented an LP water heater from the middle of the bus to the outside? Maybe I just haven't found the correct unit yet, but the ones I've seen seem to indicate that the preferred way to install is against an outside wall.
Richard
There is a screened opening in the floor directly below the front of the heater so it can draw fresh air up into the burn chamber and then a tunnel made of galvanized sheet metal lined with some kind of material that might be asbestos leading over the opening and down. It was part of the original Marathon conversion. I use the space in front of the tunnel for storing tire chains. When I open that bay door, you can see the front of the water heater if the tire chains weren't piled up in front of it. Of course, when the old heater began leaking, I wouldn't have noticed it if not for the huge icicle growing in the middle of the bus underneath.
It seems using a second exchanger for your Webasto makes more sense though than losing valuable storage space for venting when you have almost everything already there. I'd go with BusWarrior's suggestion. Will
I second BusWarriors wanting on scald protection. We have little ones now so I installed just such a device on the hot output of our water heater. That 150°F water is cooled to 118°F water before it even hits my hot lines throughout the coach. Definitely a solid $85 investment to protect everyone.
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It's been some time since this thread was active, but I'm once again trying to figure a way to make hot water without plugging in to the pole or running the generator.
As most know already, the 4106 this conversation started with is no longer with us. The current situation is a 4108 with a really nice 6-gallon water heater that runs on 120v only. This bus has no Webasto and no plumbing to bring engine heat anywhere near the hot water heater.
There is, however, LP plumbing just on the other side of the bulkhead from where the hot water heater is located. So, I'm once again exploring options for making hot water using LP and/or 120v.
So far, I've only found two options. The first is a traditional RV water heater which uses either LP or 120v. Downside appears to be that I would have to mount this against an outside wall AND cut a hole in the bay door to accommodate the large venting hatch for the water heater. Second option is a tankless water heater which vents through the floor. Downside here is the high price (over $1K, just for the water heater) and the fact that tankless water heaters can actually waste water when showering since every time the shower head is turned off & on you've got to wait till the thing heats up again to make hot water.
So now I'm back to trying to get an tank style LP hot water heater that can be remote vented through either the floor or an outside wall (without having to cut a hole large enough for the access hatch.)
Will had mentioned he had one that was reconfigured like this, but I was hoping that somewhere out there some one knew of a unit designed for the type of installation I need.
Any help would be appreciated.
Tom's model will be cheapest?
Use an inverter to make hot water power while driving, make hot water with generator while making morning coffee/charging batteries etc.
Wrap the 6 gal. tank in more insulation, to make heat retention even longer.
How much hot water do you need?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
With a 10 gallon tank, heating options are electric, engine, and Webasto. If on the pole, no brainer, just run on electric. Most of the time we boondock, so like busnut says, we run the genny in the morning, bulk charging the house batteries drawn down from the previous night, making coffee, and running the hot water heater. Even 30 minutes gets the water plenty hot for a shower or dishes; 60 minutes burns your skin. It is well insulated as it will stay hot all day.
The only operational kink is manually flipping the fuse in the sub panel. Working on ideas to have an automated way to engage the water heater when on the pole or running the generator. Do not want to heat the water when on batteries alone.
I'm aiming for the ability to go through a weekend without having to run the generator. I know that it might seem silly, but we really want to ability to run quiet for 2-3 days, and our 1974 Kohler generator with the Perkins diesel is anything but quite. It's not about being stealthy or anything like that, it's just about wanting to get away for a few days and not hear all the usual machinery and noises associated with life in the city.
We'll have approximately 800aH in our batteries and will be running minimal 12v loads while dry camping. The only creature comfort on our list that we won't be able to accomplish on batteries alone is the hot water tank. That's the reason I'm searching for a way to heat the hot water with LP, something that if possible would result in a quiet hot shower in the morning. Cooking and heat will be done with LP.
In this coach we have no Webasto. We also don't have a large enough inverter to run the water heater (nor do I want to run the bus engine to heat the water using a heat exhange). The only viable quiet option I know about is an LP hot water heater, hence the search for an LP water heater that can be vented differently than most RVs.
I'd be willing to consider doing something like Will has, but my concern is about the safety of trying to do this without having anyway to verify that I've done it properly. Venting an LP hot water heater and not getting it right can be deadly.
You need a water heater like I have. It works off electric, propane, engine heat exchanger, and radiant heat from the engine compartment. In your situation, you need a propane/ electric RV water heater. Just vent it outside for propane use, you don't have any other solution except to build a unit using firewood a few feet away.
Quote from: Geoff on January 01, 2018, 05:20:00 PM
You need a water heater like I have. It works off electric, propane, engine heat exchanger, and radiant heat from the engine compartment. In your situation, you need a propane/ electric RV water heater. Just vent it outside for propane use, you don't have any other solution except to build a unit using firewood a few feet away.
Which brings us back to the original question - how to vent it? Do you have yours vented through one of the bay doors or is your upstairs in a cabinet or something? Right now ours is in the bay with the fresh water tank, and there is no easy way to vent through the bay door due to the way they open/close.
You are going to have to cut a hole in the floor of the bay. Propane exhaust is not deadly air, but I would add a slip-on exhaust pipe to take the fumes from under the bus to the outside.
Richard, even though ours vents through the floor of the bay, I never feel comfortable when we have to use it on gas. I've checked it during use and the plastic cover over the circuit board on the front of the unit is almost hot enough to melt. If I had to use it all the time on LP I would put a vent of some type in the bay door with ducting to make sure the heat gets outside since there isn't any way to move the unit closer to the bay door without a lot of work. When i replaced the unit last summer I would have if it had been an easy project. This was originally a professional install by Marathon, but that doesn't mean it's safe. I use AC 99% of the time.
HTH
Will
Quote from: Geoff on January 01, 2018, 05:45:10 PM
You are going to have to cut a hole in the floor of the bay. Propane exhaust is not deadly air, but I would add a slip-on exhaust pipe to take the fumes from under the bus to the outside.
Not sure how this would work - the RV units sold all vent through the side, and there doesn't appear to be an easy way to add a remote vent to this. They also don't have any type of forced exhaust that I can see, which means we're asking hot exhaust to vent down instead of up which would be its nature.
Unless of course you have another type of tank hot water heater which is intended to vent through the floor, which is what I'm searching for.
Will - those are the exact type of issues which would keep an OCD person like myself from every wanting to run the thing on LP.
I saw a Truma water heater in a high dollar RV that was vented through the floor,doesn't seem like it would be that hard to vent any brand out the bottom of a bay with a little sheet metal work.
People told me I had to have a propane fridge on outside wall with the ugly vent that didn't happen no way was I going to cut a hole in the side of the bus for a vent, that fridge is still in the middle of the bus and always worked too
Quote from: luvrbus on January 01, 2018, 05:58:44 PM
I saw a Truma water heater in a high dollar RV that was vented through the floor,doesn't seem like it would be that hard to vent any brand out the bottom of a bay with a little sheet metal work.
People told me I had to have a propane fridge on outside wall with the ugly vent that didn't happen no way was I going to cut a hole in the side of the bus for a vent, that fridge is still in the middle of the bus and always worked too
Do you know if the water heaters have any type of fan to move the exhaust or are they strictly gravity? If they don't have a fan, then how well would one vent down? I'd be willing to give it a go, but it would seem that something must be done to get the hot exhaust to vent downwards when it wants to vent upwards.
I have a Paloma demand lp hot water heater mounted to a bay bulkhead adjacent to the bay door. To exhaust the hot gases I fabricated a 4" vent tube that exits the top and goes horizontally approx. 1 ft thru a hole in the bay door.This hole is covered by a 4" round screen. Has worked fine for 30 years.
Richard I went through this same annoying search when building our second coach. I wanted a short stubby gas water heater. They used to exist but are now against code so they are gone. I finally went with a 40 gallon rheem with two 2000 watt heating elements. I can't help you in this department except in my case once the water is heated to the 150 degrees my thermostat is set to, I can turn both elements off and have three to four days of hot water if I'm careful. It doesn't lose much if any through the insulated casing.
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A small water heater with two big elements you can turn on at same time will heat water very quick, minimizing any generator time to every couple of days for about an hour. That amount of generator time should be tolerable and minimize extra systems. A marine heater with coolant loop are great too. But somewhat pricey. We had one in our 4104 and only occasionally needed to run the generator.
Hold on... Is there really a problem?
Have you done any temperature drop-down tests on the existing 6 gallon tank?
If you have it up to temp, via an inverter underway, or plugged in ahead of the journey...
What is the water temp in 12/24/36/48 hours?
What is the external temp of the water tank casing? Is the tank insulated well enough?
There's a lot of money can be wasted, or saved, on this....
With winter visiting most busnuts... carving holes in the door of the water bay presents new challenges in freeze protection...
so many conflicting options....
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 02, 2018, 04:22:47 AM
A small water heater with two big elements you can turn on at same time will heat water very quick, minimizing any generator time to every couple of days for about an hour. That amount of generator time should be tolerable and minimize extra systems. A marine heater with coolant loop are great too. But somewhat pricey. We had one in our 4104 and only occasionally needed to run the generator.
A comment I posted in the other thread:
" I have an Atwood 10 gallon water heater. It heats off a 120V coil, propane, and has a heat exchanger coil. If you keep the electric or propane switched on, it will rise to about 190º internal temperature. It has a built-in "tempering valve" that mixes outside water with water from the heater tank to supply water at a temperature of about 118º. I'm not sure how many mixed gallons I get, but it's a lot. Also, the hot water from the heat exchanger is "free" heat if it's come from the engine cooling system while traveling; since it's also regulated to 190º, there's no difference to the temp of the water inside the bus, no subjective feel that there's any difference, and the same amount of mixed-temp water. It also seems to be insulated pretty well.
(Washing machine manufacturers recommend a temperature of about 160º for sanitizing during washing cycle with antiscald or tempering valves at other fixture locations but I don't have a washing machine on my bus. I like the 118º setting OK.)
This works well for me; since I'm often alone or only with my wife, it would probably be different for larger families or others may need or prefer something else, but that's "doing it my way".
HTH. BH NC"
I don't remember exactly what I paid but it seemed reasonable for the capability that the Atwood gives. I remember that the step from 6-gallon to 10-gallon was a slight higher price, but once I decided to have the three inputs for heating energy, I think that the extra for heating from 120V and the heat exchanger was only about $75 more than the basic propane-only unit.
I like the heat exchanger but since in real life most of us aren't on the road enough to make it useful every day, I find that (conditions permitting) firing up the generator before breakfast, running the coffee maker and breakfast cooking, doing a battery recharge, and heating water (wife prefers a shower after breakfast anyway) works for us. We have plenty of battery for rest-of-day (not counting A/Con of course) but heavy loads are carried by the generator. Works for us, anyway.
If you take the sheet metal off the exhaust you should see a round exhaust coming out of the water heater. That is where you hook up an exhaust pipe out the floor.
I have seen solar on buses for water heaters ,they say it works good we heated our pool with it and it was ok saved us a lot of money till it froze and broke
I saw a 4108 once that I went up to look at. When I was right next to it, I walked by the generator exhaust and discovered the generator was running only by having the exhaust hit me in the leg. The exhaust was virtually silent, and I only knew the generator was running when I put my ear on the bus and could faintly hear the generator running. It is possible to get the generator to run just about silently (think on site portable studio generators). I'm aiming at my generator in my truck to be that quiet. The big key is to have a remote radiator with electric fan and to have the generator sealed with forced air venting.
Then you can continue to use your existing electric water heater.
When we're boon docking, we run the generator 2 hours in the morning for coffee, heat the water, charge the batteries. Then sometimes again 2 hours at night. Carrying more than 2-8D batteries for house isn't an option-we don't have the room. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: luvrbus on January 02, 2018, 06:19:29 AM
I have seen solar on buses for water heaters ,they say it works good we heated our pool with it and it was ok saved us a lot of money till it froze and broke
I plan on also having solar water heating - I've left space for two 20 sq.ft. panels that should be able to supply all my hot water in the summer, and to preheat the water in the winter so I use less propane. From what I've read, the water may get too hot in the summer, so I may need some type of thermostatic drainback system.
John
Quote from: TomC on January 02, 2018, 07:19:06 AM
I saw a 4108 once that I went up to look at. When I was right next to it, I walked by the generator exhaust and discovered the generator was running only by having the exhaust hit me in the leg. The exhaust was virtually silent, and I only knew the generator was running when I put my ear on the bus and could faintly hear the generator running. It is possible to get the generator to run just about silently (think on site portable studio generators). I'm aiming at my generator in my truck to be that quiet. The big key is to have a remote radiator with electric fan and to have the generator sealed with forced air venting.
Then you can continue to use your existing electric water heater.
When we're boon docking, we run the generator 2 hours in the morning for coffee, heat the water, charge the batteries. Then sometimes again 2 hours at night. Carrying more than 2-8D batteries for house isn't an option-we don't have the room. Good Luck, TomC
Maybe I should ask a different question... How do I silence a 44-year-old generator?
In the meantime, I am doing what I can to minimize its use.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108A-125 (Current bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (totalled Sept 2017)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
I have 2 of the Sealand heaters with heat exchangers and electric I bought from Gary @B&B if anyone is looking contact me I am looking just to get my money back
Silencing a generator requires the building of a closed box, lined with sound proofing, fan-forced cooling air driven around purposefully built baffles both intake and exhaust, radiator mounted remotely with a big squirrel cage fan, ideally with 2 speed motor and somewhat under-driven for less "whoosh", the radiator air similarly re-directed through sound proofing baffles. Look up "hospital grade mufflers" for exhaust silencing purposes.
The box may be arranged such that the one squirrel cage does all your air movement through both sections. Some put the generator in one bay and the radiator next bay over through the wall.
Don't even think about this with an air-cooled unit...
Some proper calculations and measuring in sizing the airflow path so accidental flow choke points are avoided, a system of temperature measurement and alarms inside the box as well as engine parameters, a thought to fire suppression, even if it is only a well placed hole to direct a fire extinguisher into, would be important considerations.
It takes some space, and some expensive bits, but silence costs...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I've had good luck with my air cooled genny in a sound proofed box but it did require both a pusher fan coupled to a thermostatically controlled puller fan and the remote positioning of the muffler outside of the box. I did many trial runs taking temp readings under various load levels before settling on the final design. I installed a high (200 degree) oil temp shutdown switch which as of yet hasn't activated. Sure are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Jack
Hi Richard, I have had a Paloma and an EZ tankless propane water heaters. The venting I originally designed was thru the bay door, but the mechanism of bay door closure on my C3, made the exhaust venting difficult, Gary & Vans solution was thru the floor and out the billboard next to the propane heater exhaust, not a difficult venting route and there hasn't been any problems, lvmci...
The radiator on mine is mounted in the middle between two opposing bays. The air is drawn in through grating in the door on DS and exits through grating in the floor of the CS bay which houses the generator. The air is moved by a large squirrel fan. I don't think that this is the source of the noise problem.
I think that the source is the Perkins itself. It is exhausted though a muffler, but first goes through about eight feet of flex line which is wrapped in heat insulation. The flex line is necessary to allow the generator to be pulled out on the slide, but unfortunately I think it is adding a lot to the noise. Not that the Perkins is quite by any means. Also suspect that the spring mounts have collapsed enough that they are no longer providing any insulation against vibration transmission.
Not sure how much money I want to sink into the current generator. Eventually I should just bite the bullet and buy a new one from Wrico. For now that's not an option though.
So, back to the internet to keep searching for a way to make hot water quietly.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108A-125 (Current bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (totalled Sept 2017)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
Not much you can do to make a older Perkins quite
Our 4104 had the same setup. Squirrel cage and all. You need to line the compartment which it resides with modern day noise insulating materials. Ours was lined with brown insulation board. Back then, our close friend with a mc5 lined his with sheet lead and some noise matting. Really quieted it down. BTW, you need to check tighteness of connections at generator head. They tend to loosen some over time and overheat, burning the copper ends.
Quote from: richard5933 on January 02, 2018, 07:29:35 AM
Maybe I should ask a different question... How do I silence a 44-year-old generator?
In the meantime, I am doing what I can to minimize its use.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108A-125 (Current bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (totalled Sept 2017)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
A solid bottle of bourbon?
Sorry if I repeat what has been said, I did not read whole post. I have an RV aluminum hot water tank ( NOT LINED ). I bought a 5/8 od aluminum tube an welded it to it about 6" and run engine coolant through it. Works great.