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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 10:20:26 AM

Title: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 10:20:26 AM
Ever seen this before?  I clearly have to come up with a new cold air intake system.  Donaldson P537455, maybe 10K miles on it.  I can only hope it happened recently, I guess.

Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 13, 2017, 10:41:22 AM
Yep old age and humidity,I don't use that type ECO I use the ECOLite with the tapered cone inside that has the plastic netting for turbo engines
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: j.m.jackson on September 13, 2017, 11:12:45 AM
If it doesn't have a wire or plastic mesh netting facing the intake of the engine, I would NOT use it. That's a pretty big failure, I hope it didn't dust your engine. You were one step away from the engine ingesting the paper element and costing you thousands and thousands without warning.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Iceni John on September 13, 2017, 11:59:49 AM
What is the CFM rating of that filter, and how many CFM does your engine need at full power?   When I see filters like this, I wonder if they're undersized.   Did it get wet?

John
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 13, 2017, 12:01:21 PM
Technomadia had this exact issue


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Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: j.m.jackson on September 13, 2017, 12:03:23 PM
S&H,

That's exactly what I was thinking. An 8v71T moves alot of air at full bore. After seeing what happened to them, I'm fine with my 4 bowl oil bath air cleaners.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
It has a wire mesh bonded to the element inside, so that kept it in place.  I know what probably happened, on my last long trip I drove through torrential rain with standing water, since the air cleaner pulls from inside the engine compartment it could easily have pulled in water mist.  I'm going to get another of the same filter for now, since my install is based on that configuration of filter, and work out a better intake solution.  Clifford, what part number filter do you recommend?  The P537499 has 1500 cfm, but it's 24" long.  Can the ECOLITE's run either end as input?  This one is what was recommended in 2011 when I installed it.  It is rated at 1550 cfm, the highest rating of any of the ECO or ECOLITE filters.

Edit:  I was looking at the stock cold air intake, it is 30 square inches and the turbo intake is only 20 square inches so it should flow enough air.  I can adapt an input to the air filter.  The stock cold air inlet draws from in the radiator inlet area up high, and has a pretty decent water separator.

Brian

Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Oonrahnjay on September 13, 2017, 12:40:49 PM
     You're scaring me, Brian ...
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: j.m.jackson on September 13, 2017, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
It has a wire mesh bonded to the element inside, so that kept it in place.  



Brian,

Did you remove the wire mesh before taking the picture? I don't see it...
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 12:55:08 PM
You're right, the wire mesh in on the other side.  Obviously rethinking this whole deal.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: j.m.jackson on September 13, 2017, 01:04:31 PM
Yes. There is nothing supporting the filter media when airflow is from the outside of the media to the inside of the media other than, basically, hot glue. As the filter media gets moist, and/or loaded with dirt and dust, it can separate from the outside mesh screen and cause pretty catastrophic failure.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: gumpy on September 13, 2017, 04:21:32 PM
The filters I use have the wire mess on both sides. On the MC9, air is sucked from the inside to the outside. Dirty air goes to the inside of the filter. Clean air comes out the outside and goes to the engine. I though the MC5 was the same way.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Zephod on September 13, 2017, 04:53:45 PM
If water did that, you need to modify your air intake so that it won't ingest water. See my air intake... well out of the water.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170913/4938aa13fcb87a77a85ca0edc9db18b9.jpg)


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Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Stormcloud on September 13, 2017, 05:01:23 PM
I just installed an Baldwin 'Eco-Filter' equivalent in my 8v71NA MCI with fresh air intake up near the radiator fill.
It has the wire mesh both inside and out of the paper filter portion. 6" round in and out of the metal can but
actual fresh air opening is about 24 sq inches, and it draws air upwards, then right angle into the filter.

Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: kyle4501 on September 13, 2017, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: bevans6 on September 13, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
 It is rated at 1550 cfm, the highest rating of any of the ECO or ECOLITE filters.

I'm using the P537449  ECOLITE on my 8v92. I'll need to check mine soon . . . .

The P537449  ECOLITE is rated at 1500 cfm at 5" H2O.
The P537455 ECO-SM is rated at 1550 cfm at 8" H2O.

That is a significant increase in pressure drop.

Since the P537449 is 24" long compared to 16.8" for the P537455, I'm guessing it flows lots more at 5". 
Does anyone know why different filters are rated at different pressure drops?

I recently learned that paper air filters have a shelf life - looks like that deal I got on a spare wasn't a deal after all . . .  :'(

Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: TomC on September 13, 2017, 08:40:27 PM
Don't like the all in one sealed can type air cleaners. I replaced my 6" in and out with a 7" in and out when I turbo'd. The element is conical. Then I can inspect the whole air filter element. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Iceni John on September 13, 2017, 09:29:52 PM
I consider having the ability to easily look inside the filter to check its internal condition is critically important.   I modified my intake plenum so it's now completely removable by just pulling out two pins, then it can be moved out the way so I can peer down inside the filter itself.   What prompted me to do this was a scare a few years ago when I saw some splits in the pleats, and I was worried about having possibly dusted the engine.

I use the biggest Racor ECO-BC 094973002 filter that's rated at 1450-1750 CFM (but it doesn't state at what restriction)  -  this filter shouldn't ever collapse from my engine's 1225 CFM, I hope.   Crown made a clever intake design that effectively prevents any rain from getting inside the filter, plus I also added a rain gutter to drain away any water that gets inside the plenum.   Did the damaged ECOLite filter have one of those water drain valves in the bottom of it?

John     
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 14, 2017, 06:30:46 AM
One can always buy out of date filters at good buys just like tires and batteries,filter manufactures stamp a date on a filter for reason that is for a warranty period .The point we are missing on Evans filter is he installed it 6 years ago who knows without knowing the date on his filter it maybe 10 years old.Even oil bath air filters can cause problems if you don't stay on it with the service.I had a filter program though a Cat dealer for my equipment they came and checked the dates on my filters if they were out of date they replaced the older out of date filters fwiw    
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: Iceni John on September 14, 2017, 07:27:15 AM
Because it was no longer a stock item anywhere, Racor in Modesto CA made my filter when I ordered it.   I know it was fresh!   I would never buy one that had been sitting on a shelf for umpteen years.

John
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: lvmci on September 14, 2017, 07:38:18 AM
So Clifford, a person can buy a filter that's been sitting on a shelf and half it's usable life is over? As opposed to the countdown starts when you purchase it, maybe we should mention it to NAPA or whoever and ask if is it half price!  lvmci...
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 14, 2017, 08:15:23 AM
LOL Napa does cut the price on older filters they always have a spring or fall sell on filters to rotate the old stock,here it is 1/2 price or 2 for 1 at least one time a year,then using my Napa AITA card at the sale I can save some serious bucks on filters   
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: bevans6 on September 14, 2017, 11:35:41 AM
My old air filter was made in 2011, date is stamped on it.  Not sure what the expiry date is, but it failed for two reasons, both my fault and both due to the installation.  It was installed so that it pulled air from inside the engine compartment so the air was not as clean as it could be, and it got wet.  Then I didn't think to check it after it got wet.   My new installation will pull air from outside high (in the stock MCI intake location, will have multiple layers of water traps, and I will add drainage holes to the filter itself.  I note that the installation instructions for the ECO-SM has the intake on the side and output on the end, which is the way I install it so I had that correct, and the filter is supposed to be horizontal so the drain holes already installed on the cannister sides can work.  I install it vertically so I will add a few 1/4" drainage holes on the perimiter of the floor (the dirty side of the element).

Apparently all the ECO filters are one-way - either in the side and out the end or in the end and out the side, except for the ECO-Lite, which is reversible.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 14, 2017, 11:49:50 AM
ECO is a good filtering system glad you found the problem,I always set one up to draw from the outside
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: eagle19952 on September 14, 2017, 08:55:18 PM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on September 13, 2017, 12:01:21 PM
Technomadia had this exact issue


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with a baldwin liscensed eco filter...
i think that Donaldson makes and labels for anyone who will buy enough of them.
i wouldn't use a ECO anything...
Farr of permanent  housing disposable for me.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: bevans6 on September 15, 2017, 05:39:56 AM
If you won't use an ECO style filter, what would you use on a custom turbo 8V71 install where there is no existing filter?  What would you custom fabricate or manufacture from scratch as an air filter/intake system?  Just curious.

Brian
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: lostagain on September 15, 2017, 07:00:42 AM
I have been using a Donaldson Eco filter for several years now, and it has been great. I used to replace it every year because I drove lots of dirt roads and the intake near the left radiator would suck a lot of dust. I have since moved the intake high on the side just below the roof, and don't take in nearly as much dust or water.

JC
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 15, 2017, 07:50:39 AM
I have used the ECO system since 1999 never had a problem yet best filter for turbo 2 stroke you can buy IMO.I prefer the Parker/Racor ECO filter since they own patents on the filter but will use other brands and have without any problems   
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: j.m.jackson on September 15, 2017, 08:08:34 AM
To answer what would you use instead of the ECO filter, my answer would be any filter that has the media properly supported by something other than hot glue to prevent ingestion of the filter media by the engine.
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: eagle19952 on September 15, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: bevans6 on September 15, 2017, 05:39:56 AM
If you won't use an ECO style filter, what would you use on a custom turbo 8V71 install where there is no existing filter?  What would you custom fabricate or manufacture from scratch as an air filter/intake system?  Just curious.

Brian

THE ROADS in the oil patch were gravel...the gravel was silica and pumice and glacial silt. through out the patch in the dry periods clouds of dust similar to sand storms and worse when convoys of trucks .... these filters were the best. the standard caterpillar round housing with a primary and internal secondary filter worked very well too. they were all turboed engines. we rebuilt the detroits that powered huge microwave comm repeater stations for AT&T. (pipeline comm controls the primary mission) aka mission essential...POWERED BY twin turbo 8v71's never ever dusted a unit in 25 years...

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1271/6571/products/P142805_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1482502907)

every high quality name makes this filter. WE (who i worked for) stocked 1500sqft of WIX. our jobber was 4 miles away...they stocked way more :)
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: luvrbus on September 15, 2017, 10:29:45 AM
Eagle use the Farr system on some model 10's and S10's they weren't ever much of problem 
Title: Re: failed Donaldson Eco air filter
Post by: belfert on September 15, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
Donaldson has air cleaners that include the housing plus the filter.