So, in following a suggestion on this topic I have done the following.
1.Seeing as how the solenoid was sticking I replaced the sticking solenoid with the one from the old starter that did NOT stick.
However, now when I connect the starter to the batteries the starter itself will spin.The starter gear does not engage with the flywhweel ring gear but the starter motor spins on its own.
It seems like the further I go the behinder I get.
HELP.
Regards
Fred
Is the solenoid control wire disconnected? Sounds like the disc in the solenoid is fused to the contacts. Can you pull the solenoid without pulling the starter, or is it not back in the bus yet?
Sounds to me like you hooked your main battery cable to the wrong post ? ? ?
The solenoid control wired is disconnected.
I will double check to make sure the main battery cable is connected to the correct postl.
Thanks
Fred
"Sounds to me like you hooked your main battery cable to the wrong post ? ? ?"
Opps. You are right.I was concentrating on getting the additional solenoid wired correctly and wired the hot to the starter wrong.Thanks
BUT, now when I use the start button on the dash to try and start, it makes a horrible racket but nothing happens (i.e. it doesn't turn over).I thought perhaps the starter gear was the wrong size and skipping over the ring gear without engaging .However when I hot wire from the positive battery cable to the solenoid control post(on the original solenoid) it functions correctly and starts.
AND, on further troubleshooting I notice that when I manually engage the starter from the starter relay in the electrical compartment on the passenger rear of the bus it also starts with no problem. It seems to only have trouble when using the start button on the dash.
If I wasn't already half-way there this could drive a person crazy.
At least I got ONE thing corrected. :)
So now it seems that you have found that the starter and solenoid are working fine. Therefore, the problem would be in the starter button itself or the wiring between it and the starter. Have you tried jumping the starter button wires? Is there a relay in the mix somewhere?
Well, the starter and solenoid are working fine to start from cold.However my original,original problem was that it wouldnt start when hot. Still have that to figure out.
Yes, there is a relay between the starter button and the solenoid in the rear electrical compartment. And it does start from there so the problem is between that relay and the front starter button . I will keep looking.
Does that bus still have the rotary switch ?
EUREKA!!!
Its working-well sort of.
The engine will now start when it is hot.Thats the VERY good news.Bad news,-sort of- is that you have to start it from the relay in the rear electrical compartment. But at least I don't have to take the $#%^&%%$^&*^^%#$#$ starter out again.
For those who have made suggestions along the way and for those just interested I will give a cronology of what I did. It might help someone else.
1.For the past few years the bus would not start when at operating temperature although it would start fine when cold.
2.Last year, thinking it was the starter I had it rebuilt but it didn't make any difference.
3. So a fellow busnut in Canada sold me a starter last Christmas.
4. Finally this week i put the replacement starter in. This one seemed even worse that the old one as it would rattle away when trying to start from the starter button. Not only that but it would not shut off. In fact I almost burned the whole thing down as I tried to boost the bus from my truck which has dual batteries. The starter wouldn't turn the engine over and wouldn't disengage until I noticed one of the ends on the booster cable was red hot and I turned EVERYTHING off.
5.. Thinking it was a problem with the solenoid I replaced the solenoid with the one off the old starter. And, because the configuration of two solenoids was different I hooked it up wrong so when I hooked up the batteries the starter motor just spun. Luckily a member of this board asked if I wired it wrong. :)
6.I also added a new aux solenoid as per suggestions on this board.
7. So finally, with a replacement starter with the original solenoid everything was hooked up and I pressed the starter button. Again it just rattled(very loudly). Someone asked if the problem might be the relay in the rear electrical compartment.So I tried it from that relay and it started. So at least that put me back to square one where the bus would start when cold.
8. I warmed it up to operating temp and tried it again. t wouldn't start from the starter button but will start from the relay.
I still have the problem for starting from the drivers seat but I anticipate that will be easier to correct.
To those who helped I have the following comments.
I have noticed in the past that when someone is as frustrated as I was to the point of wanting to sell the bus people just seem to rally round in a real extra effort to help. Not only are the suggestions good ones BUT just the fact that people are trying to help is great encouragement. It makes you feel you are not trying to solve your problem by yourself. It may not seem obvious at the time but for me it sure helped. So everyone should pat themselves on the back. Again a huge thank you.
Regards
Fred
Your start "button" or toggle whichever you use should be rated for 50 amps.>>>Dan
Aside from the switch and wiring, the relay itself may be failing and only giving partial contact. That's where I would look next.
"Does that bus still have the rotary switch ?"
Yes, it does.
As for replacing the relay, is that an off the shelf item or?
Regards
Fred
The relay is a hard to find mechanical (old school), but can be "cleaned up" by using your wives fine nail board and dressing the points carefully to a shine and remove the burned and pitted area.. I have found in many cases the starter button as been burned many times and needs to be replaced.>>>Dan
Fred,
I'm not familiar with your bus or it,s relays, but if you took a picture of your relay I'll bet there is a suitable replacement for it that would work good.
Joe
Just remember sixtyseven,, Freds bus could be as much as 25 years older than yours with a HUGE difference in parts availability.>>>Dan
One of the most admired things in our antique GM 4104 is that most if not all of the original contactors, relays, solenoids & the like are completely serviceable and usually without the purchase of any parts. Just some cleaning & restoration as most of the parts are solid copper or brass and very industrially built. Not at all parallel of the throw away world we live in nowadays.