Looking to add a temporary diesel generator to our soon to be gotten rig.
Looks like our little temporary gas guy doesn't have the juice to run enough AC units to cool the coach.
Looking for a temporary, cheap, and quick & dirty diesel generator solution.
I've been on craigslist and auction sites. Not a lot of promising leads with the exception of the military rigs. MEP 802 and MEP 002 - 003 look like they do a lot of coach stuff, kick out clean power. The box is too big for my storage bays, but removal of the box and aluminum pallet should allow it to fit.
Going to go down and look at one today, I think in Poughkeepsie. 5-10KW 1600rpm. I think I can pick one up pretty cheap. Anyone have any info on these? They're friggin' everywhere used...
Also looking at the 3600rpm screamers (not sure if I'm into that or not...), but they are cheap.
Anyway, looking to add a temporary generator 5-10KW no higher than the $2000 mark. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance... getting excited.
$2000 sounds like a permanent solution. For $2000 you can buy 10x100 watt solar panels and have 1000 watts of power plus batteries plus an inverter and have a permanent solution that doesn't need fuel.
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I Like where you're going with that... Can that run 3 roof ACs?
We're going to have a lot of bodies in the coach.
I'm thinking a diesel generator that is not perfect that we can put in without a $#!% ton of wiring - straight to the box no frills, bells or whistles.
For this year we can have some ups a downs with it -- it is to be expected, but next year and in the future, it's got to perform. I'm thinking,"Who knows if I do a good job picking a cheapie, we might be able to budget it right in, and make it work."
But my plan is to get something that works right away and covers our cooling needs (2 people 12+ dogs). Put it in crudely and have it ready to take out and resell when we are prepared for a more permanent solution.
I was quite bullish on solar, and still am, but I have to handle cooling in the immediate future.
I hope that makes sense, and feel free to steer me straight if I'm straying. :D
I'm not really sure how hot it is where you are. My bus currently has two operational circulation fans plus an extraction fan running off 35W of solar panels. The circulation fans help with the heat. The biggest difference was painting the roof white. When it was grey, it was too hot to touch. Now it's just warm not too hot.
A tarp over the roof might help too. I'm thinking of things that don't need a generator.
I have a 30A plugin if I need 120v power.
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Two Harbor Freight generator for around $1000. Buy extended warranties. One that will run two and one that will run one. Use them this season and sell next year.
Quote from: k9disc on August 06, 2017, 03:57:49 PMI Like where you're going with that... Can that run 3 roof ACs? ...
NO! Not even close.
You can buy a decent take out 12.5KW diesel unit for $2500.00 the pop up on FaceBook from time to time on the Bus/Rv parts for sale page.I wouldn't go 2 grand for a temporary setup you will never get your money back on anyways
Will the Harbor Freight things hold their value after a year or 18m?
I think I could disassemble and mount the MEP stuff and put it back together when I get a proper rig.
I don't know though, just looking at things without having had touched stuff...
Quote from: luvrbus on August 06, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
You can buy a decent take out 12.5KW diesel unit for $2500.00 the pop up on FaceBook from time to time on the Bus/Rv parts for sale page.I wouldn't go 2 grand for a temporary setup you will never get your money back on anyways
I have not seen that deal in the last few weeks... Kind of close, but they were funky or far away.
I saw a couple of projects that were totally doable, but I'm not sure what it takes to regulate power coming out. I think it should be fairly monkey simple, like the rest of electric $#!%, but what would I know. Part of me was thinking,"Get something beat, run it til it dies and have a plan for rebuilding it." It would be good practice for life on a bus.
But the gen set for us is pretty mission critical. We can't really just walk out of the coach if it's hot, or hang outside. We've got to move and sequester a dozen dogs... lol
So, I'm looking for the cheapest way to make it happen quickly and reliably. Judging by what I saw online, craigslist, auctions, and whatnot, $2k seems to be the minimum. $3k and I have a permanent solution to start with.
Although I did see some old onan's 6-10Kw that were at $1500, but they looked rather beat and proprietarily electronic and whatnot... I think the genny and HVAC is important enough for my personal application that I'm going to go top shelf all the way around.
But first, got to get another AC Unit (split or roof) and a 5-10Kw generator.
Again, though. I don't know a thing. Treading water over here... I think. :-D
Quote from: k9disc on August 06, 2017, 06:55:31 PM
Will the Harbor Freight things hold their value after a year or 18m?
Harbor Freight & holding value ---- strange to see in the same sentence. ;D
3 A/C's will pull 45 amps . . . . ain't no way you will have enough surface area for the required amount of solar panels to provide that.
When you look at the total cost over the life of the system, Solar electricity is usually the most expensive electricity option there is -
Look for a wrecked, older high end RV -- lots of good stuff to be had . . . .
I have solar for ventilation and phone/tablet charging.
As far as running AC is concerned, people do manage it off solar. There are plenty people with websites about it.
Harbor Freight generators offer the best bang for the buck. Having said that, fir cheapness if running, I'd suggest a propane generator. Propane is dirt cheap and you'll likely have a propane stove, gas fridge and gas water heater.
My bus is currently tied into a shore 30A power supply. I don't have a generator.
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You are not being realistic about your generator or A/C needs. As has been said, it will take at least three roof airs (or four) to cool that coach while going down the road, or one or two while parked if you have coach air. Temporary multiple generators (especially Harbor Freight stuff) will not cut it. You need a serious diesel generator that is tied in to a properly wired electrical system, and I doubt that your total cost is going to be much less than $5,000 for the generator, wiring, and A/C's. Regarding used generators - the engine usually outlasts the generator unit, so if it has 8,000 - 10,000 hours on it, the generator head might not last much longer unless it has already been replaced. Dogs can tolerate some heat, but once they get used to being cool, they will suffer in a bus with no A/C because the generator malfunctioned. If you go the cheap temporary route, you had better have a backup ventilation plan. Forget any solar panel nonsense; no amount of panels on a 40' bus will power serious A/C even if the sun is shining 24 hrs a day with properly angled arrays. The space station solar panels can generate a minimum of 84 kw of power, but it would take 84 buses to cover the same area needed. One eighty-fourth of that would be 1 kw, minus atmospheric interference. There are solar panels that are more efficient than the ones used on the space station, but even the best (at high cost) have no hope of cooling down your bus. They are good for trickle-charging and other low power tasks, only.
Quote from: kyle4501 on August 06, 2017, 07:23:08 PM
Harbor Freight & holding value ---- strange to see in the same sentence. ;D
3 A/C's will pull 45 amps . . . . ain't no way you will have enough surface area for the required amount of solar panels to provide that.
When you look at the total cost over the life of the system, Solar electricity is usually the most expensive electricity option there is -
Look for a wrecked, older high end RV -- lots of good stuff to be had . . . .
Yup
Yup, but great for doodads, charging, downtime, and throwing shade on the roof.
Great idea on the OLDER high end salvage RV...
Quote from: DoubleEagle on August 06, 2017, 08:25:01 PM
You are not being realistic about your generator or A/C needs. As has been said, it will take at least three roof airs (or four) to cool that coach while going down the road, or one or two while parked if you have coach air. Temporary multiple generators (especially Harbor Freight stuff) will not cut it. You need a serious diesel generator that is tied in to a properly wired electrical system, and I doubt that your total cost is going to be much less than $5,000 for the generator, wiring, and A/C's. Regarding used generators - the engine usually outlasts the generator unit, so if it has 8,000 - 10,000 hours on it, the generator head might not last much longer unless it has already been replaced. Dogs can tolerate some heat, but once they get used to being cool, they will suffer in a bus with no A/C because the generator malfunctioned. If you go the cheap temporary route, you had better have a backup ventilation plan. Forget any solar panel nonsense; no amount of panels on a 40' bus will power serious A/C even if the sun is shining 24 hrs a day with properly angled arrays. The space station solar panels can generate a minimum of 84 kw of power, but it would take 84 buses to cover the same area needed. One eighty-fourth of that would be 1 kw, minus atmospheric interference. There are solar panels that are more efficient than the ones used on the space station, but even the best (at high cost) have no hope of cooling down your bus. They are good for trickle-charging and other low power tasks, only.
I think I am being reasonable, which is why I'm looking for a 5-10Kw diesel genset on the cheap. I want a 10-15Kw rig, maybe even 20Kw -- we do shows and stuff a bit too -- but I'd like to spend my money on something a bit more permanent once we get our $#!% together and I get my feet under me.
I've talked to Wrico and eventually, 2018ish, I'd like to go that route. But until then, I need 5-10Kw of power, minimum without shlepping gasoline or putting LP in the bus. Not AT ALL a fan of pressurized gasses.
Again, this will be our home in just a couple months. Of course, we'll be wintering in FL in a sweet mother in law suite, but we've got not much time to get ready to live in this thing.
Here's some options. This is some from just the last week. You'll find one that suits you.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/d/onan-emerald-3-genset-rv/6250941615.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/d/onan-generator-40-genset/6234492138.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/d/generec-propane-generator/6245904801.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/hvo/d/kohler-10cce-stand-by/6252811433.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/hvo/d/30kw-kohler-generator/6239004941.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/d/10000-watt-generator/6250505385.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/d/marquiss-gold-5500-generator/6245025074.html
Forget the idea of a "temporary" quickie setup for a Diesel generator. Spend the money now to get the correct (10-13kw) genset, set it up the way you want and then forget about having to deal with it in the future (my 10kw Powertech Diesel genset easily runs my 3-13,500 roof tops with power left over). The Diesel generator is the number one appliance that should not be cheapened on-since you will be using it any time you're not attached to a power pole.
Just to show how reliable Diesel generators is, I had a truck driver friend that put on over 23,000 hours on his Diesel generator before selling the truck with only one alternator head replacement (Powertech 8,000CD). Good Luck, TomC
Ok, you've found a great deal on a used high hour diesel generator. Works great for 5 weeks....then failure, no parts available or costs more than you paid for it to fix and two weeks till repaired, and bus full of hot barking dogs...... Now maybe you'll think you should've gone with new or low hour takeout. For something you are planning to live in regularily, I'd bite the bullet now.
Quote from: Zephod on August 06, 2017, 07:35:29 PM... As far as running AC is concerned, people do manage it off solar. There are plenty people with websites about it.
I disagree with that. There are lots of websites where people put a 300-watt set of solar panels on a battery bank, flip the switch and run 1500 watts of AC for 15 minutes, and say "See!! We CAN run our AC off solar!!!" It's NOT running AC off solar unless your battery bank has the same or a higher level of charge once you've finished your AC run.
I see videos where people have run their solar chargers all day, then run AC for 15 minutes and then their batteries sit uncharged all night -- and then they crow about how they've "run their AC off solar".
Solar has it's uses (if you're prepared for the expense) but running AC is NOT one of them.
Quote from: Zephod on August 06, 2017, 07:35:29 PMHarbor Freight generators offer the best bang for the buck. ...
Harbor Freight generators have the lowest initial cost (and sometimes, not by much). They have the worst specs for "quality" of power (regulation of voltage and Hertz, "cleanliness" of wave form, etc.), poor fuel economy, highest noise levels, and highest rates of breakdown and failures. I'm going to guess that they're about the worst bang for the buck in the middle and longer term.
Sorry but that's the way it is. You don't always get what you pay for but you always pay for what you get.
Quote from: k9disc on August 06, 2017, 08:54:04 PMI think I am being reasonable, which is why I'm looking for a 5-10Kw diesel genset on the cheap. I want a 10-15Kw rig, maybe even 20Kw -- we do shows and stuff a bit too -- but I'd like to spend my money on something a bit more permanent once we get our $#!% together and I get my feet under me.
I've talked to Wrico and eventually, 2018ish, I'd like to go that route. But until then, I need 5-10Kw of power, minimum without shlepping gasoline or putting LP in the bus. Not AT ALL a fan of pressurized gasses.
Again, this will be our home in just a couple months. Of course, we'll be wintering in FL in a sweet mother in law suite, but we've got not much time to get ready to live in this thing.
I have had about 8 years of experience with this, I have nobody to please or take care of but me ("The Management" says that I'm on my own with this), and I came to this with 40 years of experience in the light-vehicle design and manufacture (and was woefully unprepared for "heavy vehicle" life"). I think that you're not being reasonable. A bus/coach is a HIGH cost investment, with HIGH cost maintenance, HIGH cost installation of useful interior appointments, and HIGH cost of running, and requires HIGH input of time to prepare and keep running.
After about five years, I said "Everything costs 10 times as much as I thought and every job takes 20 times as long as I'd planned". And I've found that the best way to spend a lot of extra money is to try to go a cheap route when you're starting out.
I hate to say it, and I apologize in advance for seeming critical, but I think your only "reasonable" way out is to sell this bus -- hopefully at a bit of a profit -- and start again with something that more "industrial" and ready for you to use as you need in your life. I don't think that you have enough investment capital and time for this to turn out to be anything but tragic money pit that will leave you broke, frustrated, and discouraged.
Just my viewpoint; it's your life to make your decisions, plan what you want, and do it your way. But I think you need plain spoken advice and that's what you get from me.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on August 07, 2017, 06:12:06 AM
I have had about 8 years of experience with this, I have nobody to please or take care of but me ("The Management" says that I'm on my own with this), and I came to this with 40 years of experience in the light-vehicle design and manufacture (and was woefully unprepared for "heavy vehicle" life"). I think that you're not being reasonable. A bus/coach is a HIGH cost investment, with HIGH cost maintenance, HIGH cost installation of useful interior appointments, and HIGH cost of running, and requires HIGH input of time to prepare and keep running.
After about five years, I said "Everything costs 10 times as much as I thought and every job takes 20 times as long as I'd planned". And I've found that the best way to spend a lot of extra money is to try to go a cheap route when you're starting out.
I hate to say it, and I apologize in advance for seeming critical, but I think your only "reasonable" way out is to sell this bus -- hopefully at a bit of a profit -- and start again with something that more "industrial" and ready for you to use as you need in your life. I don't think that you have enough investment capital and time for this to turn out to be anything but tragic money pit that will leave you broke, frustrated, and discouraged.
Just my viewpoint; it's your life to make your decisions, plan what you want, and do it your way. But I think you need plain spoken advice and that's what you get from me.
Thanks for the check. Will give it some thought.
I thought going with a good runner and modern motor was a smart deal.
I'm not thinking about making money on flipping the bus. We are very spartan, we have a hot plate in our factory after 5 years, and it's cool. We have been living in a van for a couple years as well.
The plan is to get a generator that will run our ac units. I would really like to have a strong genny in our rig, as HVAC is so important for the dogs, so I'm a bit leery of going with a beater genny. But I don't have the money at this time to get something that is highly likely to be reliable over the long haul.
Thanks again for the advice.
Quote from: k9disc on August 06, 2017, 08:54:04 PM
Again, this will be our home in just a couple months. Of course, we'll be wintering in FL in a sweet mother in law suite, but we've got not much time to get ready to live in this thing.
This bus might be a mistake. It is not likely that you will be able to make it livable for you and dogs in a couple months. Cooling a bus with windows that is painted black (with a white stripe) with a cheap generator is not likely. You are starting totally from scratch with a seated bus with maybe no prior experience in converting. It takes time to put roof airs on, run wires, install a generator, and provide cooling for it, let alone strip the seats out and put in minimal living accommodations with holding and supply tanks. Most of us have spent years doing such things. It's easy to visualize things in your brain and grossly underestimate how long it will take to do things, but in reality, it takes a lot longer. You should consider a bus that already has a lot of this stuff done if you want to travel soon. Don't shoot the messenger of bad news. ::)
Thanks. 8)
You are better off with a older Onan 7000 gasoline unit and deal with the gasoline for temporary use they can be had for 400 to 600 bucks with low hours and last forever without problems.
The propane units use about twice as much fuel,I have a propane Onan in the Trek and it loves propane under a load like over a gal per hour where the gasoline version are about a 1/2 gal per hr under a load and the same generator same engine on gasoline has more KW
Quote from: DoubleEagle on August 07, 2017, 06:28:33 AM
This bus might be a mistake. It is not likely that you will be able to make it livable for you and dogs in a couple months. Cooling a bus with windows that is painted black (with a white stripe) with a cheap generator is not likely. You are starting totally from scratch with a seated bus with maybe no prior experience in converting. It takes time to put roof airs on, run wires, install a generator, and provide cooling for it, let alone strip the seats out and put in minimal living accommodations with holding and supply tanks. Most of us have spent years doing such things. It's easy to visualize things in your brain and grossly underestimate how long it will take to do things, but in reality, it takes a lot longer. You should consider a bus that already has a lot of this stuff done if you want to travel soon. Don't shoot the messenger of bad news. ::)
Well, now I feel as if I have to defend myself a bit... Perhaps my congeniality was mistaken for ignorance.
I know solar ain't gonna run roof airs. At least I thought I did until someone mentioned it. Rather than argue, I find it better to ask a question. Much like I did about the big truck rigs that someone mentioned in jest in another thread.
I know that I don't want a cheap generator, and that harbor freight stuff is crap and won't hold up it's value on retail. Which is why I am looking at reasonable solutions that will have some residual value. If I were to buy a $2000 generator today and sell it for $1500 or $1000 later, that's fine. I need AC and power.
I cannot buy this bus right now and drop another $6000 on a generator at this time. It can't happen. We're stretched thin on the purchase until we can get out from under our substantial rent.
We will be working on the bus in MI to start, and then in St Louis this fall. In MI we have a couple of carpenter/classic car guys who will happily slave away with me (brother in law and pal), and in St. Louis we have a tremendous shop and many talented wrenches and fabricators who will assist.
This reminds me of when we moved to NY with 15 dogs into a factory in the city -- like urban, urban. All the realtors and normal people were really freaked out by what we were trying to do, "You can't live in the city with that many dogs..."
Ironically, the city limits are often the only place you can legally live with as many dogs as we have. Kind of crazy right? 20 acre property 10 dogs. City? No limits.
I think that's kind of what's happening here. We've been on the road for about 5 years now, exclusively for the last 2. We're fairly experienced on that front. What we don't have experience with is driving and maintaining a coach.
I appreciate the advice, good information is what I'm here for. So... what would be a better move for our budget?
RV won't really work, as we can't fit the dogs and can't afford anything at all new. We can't really afford an entertainer, which is about the only coach design feature that readily accommodates the dogs.
I'm paying $7500 for this bus. OTR air and everything else works. It's got a pre-egr 4 stroke motor.
I have 1 15,000 roof air and a line on another. We've put them on our other vehicles.
That's about it.
Thanks again.
peace
We just spent about $2500 just for a generator head (13k). It will be paired with our old Perkins diesel.
Then there is about $4000-$6000 I'm going to spend getting it reinstalled. Lots of new wiring and controls to redo. Has to be connected to the cooling.
All this to replace what mice destroyed.
I think I have to agree with the others. You're seriously underestimating what it will take to accomplish this. If you're going to invest in a generator, you might as well wire up the 120v systems too, etc. Project creep will certainly occur.
1964 PD4106-2412
Quote from: richard5933 on August 07, 2017, 07:44:21 AM
We just spent about $2500 just for a generator head (13k). It will be paired with our old Perkins diesel.
Then there is about $4000-$6000 I'm going to spend getting it reinstalled. Lots of new wiring and controls to redo. Has to be connected to the cooling.
All this to replace what mice destroyed.
I think I have to agree with the others. You're seriously underestimating what it will take to accomplish this. If you're going to invest in a generator, you might as well wire up the 120v systems too, etc. Project creep will certainly occur.
1964 PD4106-2412
This is the reason that i was looking for a temporary solution.
Plumb and mount the breaker box and shore power; attach the generator to the bus, the box, and fuel; create airflow. That would give me shore and remote power for a couple of outlets and AC. We will need to drive this a few places rather soon and will need to spend time in it a few days at a time while we're between guest homes.
Is that not correct?
I'm pretty leery of doing a whole bunch of stuff before we have some time existing in the rig. I think I'm doing that so we can
avoid project creep.
Again, the thing I'm really worried about is the bus running well and keeping it cool.
He has a plan but not the funds is the way I read it ,he purchased a 20 year old bus that could be a money eater too, buses are not like wine they don't get better with age,like paying 500 bucks a pop for a tire on the road or a $40.00 sensor on the series 50 that ends up costing $1200.00
Quote from: luvrbus on August 07, 2017, 08:14:04 AM
He has a plan but not the funds is the way I read it ,he purchased a 20 year old bus that could be a money eater too, buses are not like wine they don't get better with age,like paying 500 bucks a pop for a tire on the road or a $40.00 sensor on the series 50 that ends up costing $1200.00
So what can I do to get two rooms rolling down the road?
I need to roll with 2 rooms. Can't be a trailer because the dogs can't ride in the trailer. We can't travel in a van any longer.
"cheap, reliable generator" you and every other person are after the same mythical thing, and the risks are larger for you.
Who sells a good generator? Those get put on the shelf for a rainy day...
What happens when you have power failure, and some do-gooder calls the local SPCA?
Run with the BIG DOGS, or stay on the porch?
If you buy the right generator from the start, it goes with you, and you move on to the hundred other things that need done.
Buy a crap one, you will keep going back, over and over.
Dig deep, install something properly from Wrico, (or another reputable vendor of your liking), and it is finished, done, case closed, no more mental activity required, no more anguish, move forward.
You cannot afford the time, both physical and mental, or funds to lose and have to go back again and again.
Failure has huge costs that are not only measured in dollars, to having unreliable power, emotional, initiative decay, partner failure and distraction from your core business, which is NOT the coach. The typical busnut is mission focused on the coach; we have nothing else to think about. You, however, are using this coach as a tool to another end. Completely different circumstance and thinking required.
Who is thinking enthusiastically about the next revenue stream, if your mind is wrapped up in the negativity of equipment failure?
Desperation does not make for good decisions?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: k9disc on August 07, 2017, 08:20:17 AM
So what can I do to get two rooms rolling down the road?
I need to roll with 2 rooms. Can't be a trailer because the dogs can't ride in the trailer. We can't travel in a van any longer.
Have you played with the idea of a box truck? Straight sides, 5 ton chassis, 26 foot box is common, maintenance items are common and lots of truck techs can work on it. A side door with steps can be fabricated, just like the side door in an RV. Build it up inside like house construction, stud it, spray foam it, build walls. Pay close attention to roof construction, you don't wan a plastic.fibreglass roof for this purpose. And more ceiling space than a schoolie?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Same as the utility company trucks, everything fits inside the exterior dimensions, a recessed grill area for the window AC of your choice, a similar recessed area for mounting the generator of your choice, some sound insulation on the interior panels of that "cube in the corner"
You are not confined/limited to the paltry space available in a motorcoach's baggage bays, since you are designing the space to your own liking.
Also, a box truck is far less conspicuous for the covert "urban camper" than a motorcoach or schoolie ever would be. Have the local graffiti artists paint it up ahead of time, you can vanish into the urban landscape?
Spirits up, there's a way to crack this nut.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on August 07, 2017, 08:24:02 AM
"cheap, reliable generator" you and every other person are after the same mythical thing, and the risks are larger for you.
Who sells a good generator? Those get put on the shelf for a rainy day...
What happens when you have power failure, and some do-gooder calls the local SPCA?
Run with the BIG DOGS, or stay on the porch?
If you buy the right generator from the start, it goes with you, and you move on to the hundred other things that need done.
Buy a crap one, you will keep going back, over and over.
Dig deep, install something properly from Wrico, (or another reputable vendor of your liking), and it is finished, done, case closed, no more mental activity required, no more anguish, move forward.
You cannot afford the time, both physical and mental, or funds to lose and have to go back again and again.
Failure has huge costs that are not only measured in dollars, to having unreliable power, emotional, initiative decay, partner failure and distraction from your core business, which is NOT the coach. The typical busnut is mission focused on the coach; we have nothing else to think about. You, however, are using this coach as a tool to another end. Completely different circumstance and thinking required.
Who is thinking enthusiastically about the next revenue stream, if your mind is wrapped up in the negativity of equipment failure?
Desperation does not make for good decisions?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Oh, do I feel you there. That's our life already.
And I hear what you are saying, for sure. I want to be simple and efficient. It might be just a better idea to rely on shore power until the right genset comes up.
But then we risk a breakdown in the heat with no AC... This is why I was talking about a "temporary generator", something that we don't rely on, but have in the back pocket. I thought a 5 or 7Kw diesel could be rather easily plumbed (fuel & electric) and used if necessary. If I took a $500 hit to have that back up for a year I think it would be worth it.
Maybe we just don't plan to move it purposefully until we can get the genny squared away. It really is mission critical stuff for us, and I do not want to skimp.
My temporary/full time generator is a Yamaha 3000iSEB. It does double duty as my house backup generator in the winter. In the bus, it rides along in the old air conditioner bay. When I stop, I open the door, angle the generator out so the back end is in open air and it runs happily for any length of time, doesn't over heat, can't be heard from inside the house, and runs anything on the bus at the same time. I have a small microwave and a 15K air conditioner (one only). It won't run two air conditioners, but for temporary use, I can't imagine a better, more cost effective solution. You could find one used, or look at it's equivalent Honda or china import brand equivalents. I don't run it while driving because I have an inverter powered from the alternator for that.
The idea of a box truck has many merits. I considered one but went for a schoolbus based on lower mileage.
Certainly with a box truck, it's easy to paint white (to reflect heat) and easier to install 4 inches of gap free insulation. Building it that way, you could install a house air conditioner unit and a generator plus plenty roof space for solar.
My question though is since you can clearly find somewhere to park a bus, why you can't just plug it in to a power supply.
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QuoteIt might be just a better idea to rely on shore power until the right genset comes up.
I was following along until I read this comment. Isn't it essential that the vehicle have A/C available at any time? How will you ever transport the dogs when it is hot outside without A/C? You made the comment that cooling is mission critical, so how can you make a generator optional?
Anyway, I'm new too and listened very well to all the comments made by the very knowledgeable folks here. There are a hundred ways to die and very few ways to live and even fewer ways to always have a smile as you float on down the road with a flawless coach.
The market now, and this I KNOW, is heavily biased toward buyers. There are amazing deals to be had. There are lots of ads posted by folks with various motivations for selling. Most all are overly optimistic and set a price based on other ads. They struggle adding up what they have spent on their bus and now find they can get only pennies on the dollar. They are compelled to list high. Only after much pain and suffering do they realize what they will receive is far less than the other ads and far below their bottom bottom, no lower than price. I assure you what buses actually sell for is different than what is being asked.
OK, the point is find a bus that has the basic A/C, plumbing, and wiring already installed and working. It may likely be already converted but may be partially converted. You may find you need to remove stuff to make room for the kennels. I assure you this is cheaper and quicker than trying to build one up.
If you are seriously tight on cash and time, then you have to think through a build up approach. If you need parts quickly you are going to be paying up. The more time you have the more time to scout a real deal. Now, times that for all the parts you are sourcing and you will be sitting for a long time accumulating good value parts on the cheap.
The other factor is the current market offers the best value on the most converted, best shape coaches. The more invested the more the seller is taking it in the butt. Buying a coach in the very best shape means far fewer checks to fix up stuff. Naturally, PM is ongoing.
You also have a ready to roll solution. It will take a lot of effort to find a good one. I always kept reminding myself when getting frustrated and wanting to quit looking that any and every hour spent researching and looking was far better spent than on the other side of the transaction. Personally, I much rather enjoy an hour on the computer than getting all greasy and banged up underneath a coach.
Quote from: windtrader on August 07, 2017, 02:24:53 PM
I was following along until I read this comment. Isn't it essential that the vehicle have A/C available at any time? How will you ever transport the dogs when it is hot outside without A/C? You made the comment that cooling is mission critical, so how can you make a generator optional?
OK, the point is find a bus that has the basic A/C, plumbing, and wiring already installed and working. It may likely be already converted but may be partially converted. You may find you need to remove stuff to make room for the kennels. I assure you this is cheaper and quicker than trying to build one up.
Because I can't afford the "final" one. And because we have a sprinter that will transport the dogs coolly until I can get generator to a par. Guess I just can't hang in this conversation.
You know, it's really interesting... Drivetrain, drivetrain, drivetrain... But no, no, no, it's coach coach coach. I could buy a 60 something coach, but then I'd be buying a rustbucket with no parts.
Think I'll stop talking and start lurking again.
Not sure I get what's happening here.
What's happening here is your imagination is larger than your pocketbook.
-- Geoff
Quote from: k9disc on August 07, 2017, 03:26:04 PM
Not sure I get what's happening here.
The way I see it is that some here aren't interested in blowing sunshine up your . . . . . .
Some of us have been there & done that and would like to share their thoughts & opinions so others can benefir without the expense.
My coach is in excellent condition, yet it is easy to spend $$$$ on it. Maintenance in the driveway is ALWAYS cheaper than emergency roadside bandaids.
So, keep plugging away & posting. Lots of good food for thought.
If it is any consolation, most of us here didn't (still don't) like all of the replies we got (get). But, they do provoke deeper consideration of other options.
Do what you gotta do . . . .
Well, now that we have slashed into your dreams of cruising with 12 happy dogs (and many more frisbee's), let's consider your options. If you are obligated to buy this bus and it runs down the road safely as is, and the coach A/C works properly, and it has power steering and an Allison automatic, decent tires that are not too old, and a Series 50 that is not about to require new balancing shafts, that is not such a bad deal for $7500.
You need to take out enough seats to house the dog cages and install sleeping quarters for you - an air mattress or cots will suffice. If the coach rest room is operational, that is your bathroom, otherwise get a port-a-potty. When parked you need at least one roof A/C that could be installed in one of the emergency roof exits. Save time with the wiring by running it in conduit on the surface of the ceiling and walls; bury it in the walls later when you have time. You need sufficient breaker boxes and wiring to be able to plug in to a land line, a 30 Amp connection or even 20 Amp will be enough for one A/C. You have to be aware that the wiring in a coach can not be done the same way as in a house, the ground wires can not be on the same bus bar that the neutrals are. There are many articles on this in past issues of Bus Conversion Magazine and on this board. Become knowledgeable about this detail to avoid electrocution.
You will need water tanks for the dogs that will fit in the door or your the emergency side windows. Check out farm supply or RV supply stores for what they have in plastic tanks. If you need privacy, you could rig up shower-style curtains on spring-bars. There, you are ready to hit the road, minus a generator, because either the coach is running, or it is plugged in where you park as a guest. If the A/C should fail or get weak, be prepared to open the emergency windows and roof hatches, and have a way to secure them open a few inches so the air can come in without the windows flapping in the breeze. If you have time to get fancy, you could get camping style portable sinks and cooking stoves, and LED lanterns so you don't draw down your starting batteries.
If you can swing a generator big enough to run the one A/C, consider a portable one that could be stored in the bay so that it could be lifted out and run outside the coach so that the exhaust fumes are not collecting in the coach. Carbon monoxide is an equal opportunity killer, your future permanent one needs to have the exhaust out and away from the coach. If you have a gasoline powered one, be sure to have a gas line shutoff after the tank in case the needle valve in the carburetor fails to seal because of all the vibration and ethanol-laced gas it has to endure. You do not want gallons of gasoline leaking in your baggage bay on a hot day. Speaking of hot, you should paint or coat the roof white at your earliest opportunity.
That is a bare-bones solution that you can afford that will give you more room for your dogs. Except for the stark black and white appearance on the outside, no one on the outside will know what it looks like on the inside. If you want even more privacy and less heat gain through the windows, get some celotex (or whatever brand) insulation boards in 1/2" or 3/4" thickness, paint one side black, and fit them into the window areas for any windows you don't plan to open. On the outside it will look like you have dark privacy tint windows. When you drive down the highway, just pretend that the coach behind you is fully completed. Most of us do not really have a coach that is truly finished. ;D
Quote from: k9disc on August 06, 2017, 03:57:49 PM
I Like where you're going with that... Can that run 3 roof ACs?
We're going to have a lot of bodies in the coach.
no
Quote from: DoubleEagle on August 07, 2017, 08:20:16 PM
Well, now that we have slashed into your dreams of cruising with 12 happy dogs (and many more frisbee's), let's consider your options. If you are obligated to buy this bus and it runs down the road safely as is, and the coach A/C works properly, and it has power steering and an Allison automatic, decent tires that are not too old, and a Series 50 that is not about to require new balancing shafts, that is not such a bad deal for $7500.
You need to take out enough seats to house the dog cages and install sleeping quarters for you - an air mattress or cots will suffice. If the coach rest room is operational, that is your bathroom, otherwise get a port-a-potty. When parked you need at least one roof A/C that could be installed in one of the emergency roof exits. Save time with the wiring by running it in conduit on the surface of the ceiling and walls; bury it in the walls later when you have time. You need sufficient breaker boxes and wiring to be able to plug in to a land line, a 30 Amp connection or even 20 Amp will be enough for one A/C. You have to be aware that the wiring in a coach can not be done the same way as in a house, the ground wires can not be on the same bus bar that the neutrals are. There are many articles on this in past issues of Bus Conversion Magazine and on this board. Become knowledgeable about this detail to avoid electrocution.
You will need water tanks for the dogs that will fit in the door or your the emergency side windows. Check out farm supply or RV supply stores for what they have in plastic tanks. If you need privacy, you could rig up shower-style curtains on spring-bars. There, you are ready to hit the road, minus a generator, because either the coach is running, or it is plugged in where you park as a guest. If the A/C should fail or get weak, be prepared to open the emergency windows and roof hatches, and have a way to secure them open a few inches so the air can come in without the windows flapping in the breeze. If you have time to get fancy, you could get camping style portable sinks and cooking stoves, and LED lanterns so you don't draw down your starting batteries.
If you can swing a generator big enough to run the one A/C, consider a portable one that could be stored in the bay so that it could be lifted out and run outside the coach so that the exhaust fumes are not collecting in the coach. Carbon monoxide is an equal opportunity killer, your future permanent one needs to have the exhaust out and away from the coach. If you have a gasoline powered one, be sure to have a gas line shutoff after the tank in case the needle valve in the carburetor fails to seal because of all the vibration and ethanol-laced gas it has to endure. You do not want gallons of gasoline leaking in your baggage bay on a hot day. Speaking of hot, you should paint or coat the roof white at your earliest opportunity.
That is a bare-bones solution that you can afford that will give you more room for your dogs. Except for the stark black and white appearance on the outside, no one on the outside will know what it looks like on the inside. If you want even more privacy and less heat gain through the windows, get some celotex (or whatever brand) insulation boards in 1/2" or 3/4" thickness, paint one side black, and fit them into the window areas for any windows you don't plan to open. On the outside it will look like you have dark privacy tint windows. When you drive down the highway, just pretend that the coach behind you is fully completed. Most of us do not really have a coach that is truly finished. ;D
Completed? What's that? My plans and ideas change as I go along.
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Quote from: k9disc on August 07, 2017, 09:19:11 AM
Oh, do I feel you there. That's our life already.
And I hear what you are saying, for sure. I want to be simple and efficient. It might be just a better idea to rely on shore power until the right genset comes up.
But then we risk a breakdown in the heat with no AC... This is why I was talking about a "temporary generator", something that we don't rely on, but have in the back pocket. I thought a 5 or 7Kw diesel could be rather easily plumbed (fuel & electric) and used if necessary. If I took a $500 hit to have that back up for a year I think it would be worth it.
Maybe we just don't plan to move it purposefully until we can get the genny squared away. It really is mission critical stuff for us, and I do not want to skimp.
Aha... Shore power. This is what I have as my power solution. For boondocking, life is a bit less cozy but livable.
As a temporary solution, you really can't go much wrong with a Harbor Freight generator. Get the warranty and if it goes phut, the nearest Harbor Freight can exchange it.
7kw for $600 or 11kw for $1200. Well under your budget!
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Quote from: Zephod on August 08, 2017, 03:02:46 AM... 7kw for $600 or 11kw for $1200. Well under your budget!
Those are "industrial/construction" generators (the kind with the metal frame around them). They're designed to run at high RPM, they have little or no sound reduction -- I mean
LOUD -- they make lots of heat, they have high fuel consumption for the amount of electrical power, and they're terribly unreliable. I'm not sure that they accommodate hard-wiring into a vehicle system. IMO, buying something like that is putting yourself into a world of woe. Some people on this forum have tried those, with very poor results.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on August 08, 2017, 05:15:05 AM
Those are "industrial/construction" generators (the kind with the metal frame around them). They're designed to run at high RPM, they have little or no sound reduction -- I mean LOUD -- they make lots of heat, they have high fuel consumption for the amount of electrical power, and they're terribly unreliable. I'm not sure that they accommodate hard-wiring into a vehicle system. IMO, buying something like that is putting yourself into a world of woe. Some people on this forum have tried those, with very poor results.
H/F generators are Junk for his temporary use I still believe the (used) ONAN 1800 rpm RV generator is his best bet for price and dependability
Thanks guys... Double Eagle, that's the plan, almost to a T. Thanks for the direct heads up on the electrical... I passed it on to my electrician who will be wiring the bus.
I'm leaning towards an 1800 diesel genny, too.
I will be in MI with connections to mechanical, motor, and carpentry people (my home - where I grew up) or will be in St Louis where I've got diesel, motorcycle, and gas mechanics coming out of my ears. I would like to plumb the fuel and electric, and hook it up, planning for a more permanent solution (coach controls, large inverter, and new / low hours/well serviced) when we have things a bit more together and have some experience. It should not be too hard with my motorhead and construction connections to find something that will work.
Or am I wrong about that?
I'm thinking a 5-10kW genny, probably only going to be able to afford a 5 or 7kW rig, which is fine for now.
As far as the conversion goes, and living spartan...
I don't really care if it's ever "completed" neither does my girlfriend. We've been living on the road with a $#!% ton of dogs in a sprinter. One sleeps in the coffin on the floor (tiny space between crates) one in the twin bed in the back. We are fine with coach deprecation and are planning on it not being worth what we put into it when we're done.
The whole reason we don't have a larger budget is because we rent our factory space in the ghetto. It's an amazing space, and great to have a home, but that nut on top of living on the road means we're always just above water. We've been here 2 months out of the last 2 years. Eliminate that monthly cost, and we're doing pretty alright.
We also need to lug around a welding shop -- my GF is a metal sculptor. We'll be rolling with a plasma torch and welder. Our permanent generator will be selected in order to run that gear. It will also power outdoor show.
This stuff is not a priority at this time, and it far exceeds our budget.
The only priority is keeping the bus cool and making sure that it stays running and is easy to service. I think that the 4 stroke 50 series motor is a good choice for that.
If that is wrong, please tell me.
Thread has been getting long so forget why the Series 50. There are plenty of older coaches that are very reliable and generally less costly. Many have 8V71N and nobody will argue that one in good shape is a mule and workhorse and easier to maintain as there are no electronics. The Series 50 has DDEC III/IV ECM. That means even with your army of mechanics they are flying blind unless they have the shop machine to hook in to get the diagnostic and run logs.
Giving you a thumbs up for passing the initiation phase. I had the same impression when first engaging this group. What a bunch of negative A holes. Do they want to help or just beat noobies up? For the most part, everyone here is earnest and help means just making this whole thing as real as possible. We all arrive with inflated, unrealistic, and totally uninformed about the real world of bus ownership.
Hang in, you'll get what you need.
Quote from: windtrader on August 08, 2017, 09:50:45 PM
Giving you a thumbs up for passing the initiation phase. I had the same impression when first engaging this group. What a bunch of negative A holes. Do they want to help or just beat noobies up? For the most part, everyone here is earnest and help means just making this whole thing as real as possible. We all arrive with inflated, unrealistic, and totally uninformed about the real world of bus ownership.
This is why I went with a schoolbus. Though Carpenter is out of business, international is not (they made the chassis) nor is Detroit Diesel and many parts are interchangeable with Thomas parts. That's fairly low cost easy to source parts. I could pay $600 for a new turn signal switch or I could pay $75 but they're available at a range of prices. Try that with an elderly MCI.
Regarding people giving a rough ride... I'm quite happy to stick my middle finger up and go my own way lol. Done that plenty of times. I'm building my bus my way and people can either admire it or sod off. The same for assistance. People can answer questions and save me time hunting for the answers. The scientist in me verifies the answers before committing time or cash. Alternatively people can be complete dicks like they were on the skoolie group and various of the immature Facebook groups.
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One good thing about all groups you can always leave lol I have had my share of hits here since 90's and really never became pissed at anyone not even Dallas may he rest RIP
Quote from: windtrader on August 08, 2017, 09:50:45 PM
Thread has been getting long so forget why the Series 50. There are plenty of older coaches that are very reliable and generally less costly. Many have 8V71N and nobody will argue that one in good shape is a mule and workhorse and easier to maintain as there are no electronics. The Series 50 has DDEC III/IV ECM. That means even with your army of mechanics they are flying blind unless they have the shop machine to hook in to get the diagnostic and run logs.
Giving you a thumbs up for passing the initiation phase. I had the same impression when first engaging this group. What a bunch of negative A holes. Do they want to help or just beat noobies up? For the most part, everyone here is earnest and help means just making this whole thing as real as possible. We all arrive with inflated, unrealistic, and totally uninformed about the real world of bus ownership.
Hang in, you'll get what you need.
Parts. Ubiquity of places to work on them. Environment, mine and the rest of y'all.
Several recommendations by diesel guys, or rather complaints on the v92.
I've talked to diesel guys who looked at me like I was greek talking about a 2stroke diesel.
Both my GF and me, from the get go, wanted a modern motor. I know that comes with codes and sensors and whatnot (Pre-EGR, though), but it also comes with the stuff above, as well. That is important, right?
What I know about the sale of this bus:
I have been looking at buses, like an addict, for almost a year now. All over craigslist, auctions, and ebay. I'm pretty good at finding $#!% now... searchtempest.com - pretty cool site...
I pretty much knew every bus that was available across the country, I think. I know that's an exaggeration, but I was very rabid in my search.
I searched MI a lot because my people are great wrenches and projects abound -- we build $#!%.
These buses, there were 2 to start, were on craigslist, somehow buried -- I never once saw them -- for 6 months. Starting at $15,000, IIRC. Then down to $12k per unit.
Last month they hit my radar at auctiontime.com . I looked up the ad via google, and it popped up the craigslist ad, that I had somehow missed -- for months -- I think they went on sale in Feb. There were 3 days left on the auction. My GF liked the rig.
At auction, I missed out on the winning bid of $5300, both rigs bought by the same guy, because I couldn't put the extra money together in 3 days at the close of auction. Super bummed. At $5300, that was a steal, IMO.
I kept looking and was starting to look at cheap series60 rigs, for the reasons above, and then this rig pops back up in our neck of the woods where we have people who can put eyes and an inspection on it.
We put a deposit down and are going to inspect and, if it checks out, purchase this week.
That's the story.
2 strokes are not for every one it does require different driving habits,techniques and maintaince or you kill one in a hurry,where as the DDEC series 50 the driver cannot abuse one in normal use.
The series 50 is not my favorite engine but it will serve you well with oil changes,filters and the right antifreeze school your self once you know the basics on the operation of the series 50 it is a great +for you
;D then you can buy 15/40 oil everywhere no need to carry a case of oil with you,I still love my 2 strokes though kinda like Harley a sound of there own
k9disc,
At this point you know enough to make an informed decision. You know your strengths, weaknesses, ability to deal with stress, delays, unknowns, professional schedule commitments, etc. You've thought through all the major considerations and upgrades to meet your minimum needs. Good luck!
Quote from: windtrader on August 09, 2017, 12:55:53 PM
k9disc,
At this point you know enough to make an informed decision. You know your strengths, weaknesses, ability to deal with stress, delays, unknowns, professional schedule commitments, etc. You've thought through all the major considerations and upgrades to meet your minimum needs. Good luck!
And I still don't know $#!%. :D
I appreciate the honest, if a bit pokey, information, for sure.
Quote from: windtrader on August 08, 2017, 09:50:45 PM
Thread has been getting long so forget why the Series 50. There are plenty of older coaches that are very reliable and generally less costly. Many have 8V71N and nobody will argue that one in good shape is a mule and workhorse and easier to maintain as there are no electronics. The Series 50 has DDEC III/IV ECM. That means even with your army of mechanics they are flying blind unless they have the shop machine to hook in to get the diagnostic and run logs.
If you buy a bus with an electronic engine, then just buy the Pro-Link or DDR for it. Having a DDEC bus without a scanner is putting you at the mercy of whoever works (or tries to work) on it. I bought a Pro-Link 9000 scanner and a brand-new DDEC II and III cartridge with manual, and a printer, and the correct adapter cable to the bus's diagnostic port, and a case, all for $225. They're out there. With the scanner and the DDEC Troubleshooting Manual I can do my own initial fault-finding (I hope!). DDEC isn't a reason to not buy a bus.
John
Lol Pro/Links are great if you know the basics of a DDEC they are diagnostics tool only it won't tell you anything about how to do the repair ;D you need the manuals that are frustrating to understand
For what it's worth, the MEP-803a and 003a are Onan diesel engines. The MEP 804a and 004a are Yanmar diesels. Some folks have successfully converted the 3 phase output on the 04a to a single phase for 120/208V. Buying them off of the auction sites is a risk, but sounds like you know some folks that can help mitigate that risk.
Hi K9, there are generator/welder combos, you might save space/weight and get more bang for your bucks, but I would definitely choose a diesel and hook it to your tank. lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on August 23, 2017, 07:03:04 AM
Hi K9, there are generator/welder combos, you might save space/weight and get more bang for your bucks, but I would definitely choose a diesel and hook it to your tank. lvmci...
I was thinking that initially, and then wrote it off due to something posted here, can't remember what...
Might have to revisit the idea, I think.
Looks like we're putting the floor back down early next week and then the roof mount air. Will do a simple 30A plug for now, as a generator in our price range has not dropped in our laps. We have a gas honda we can throw down stairs and pull out to run the AC if we need remote power, so we're kind of on track schedule wise.
It's been fun and educational removing the floors and such. So gross, though. Anyone who doesn't do it is mad! All the gunk is out out the bus!
Can't wait to have the floor back my spiderman skills have really come along, but I'm ready to see it put back together. Just the last couple feet of chair rail in the back, a little more frame painting and the floor is going down.
Thanks for all the thoughts on this thread, guys. We definitely jumped right into the deep end. It's going to be something.
Peace~
Ron