So, there we were, going through Oklahoma. Late night. We want a place to pull over. We see a campground in the guidebook. Says it is being renovated. If we pull in, we don't need to run the generator all night to keep furnace running, batteries charged. etc.
Power pole looked suspect. No matter. "We've never had a problem before." I thought to myself. Hahaha. In retrospect, many times I wonder what was going through my head to think such thoughts. Anyways, I can't find my 50 amp cable, so I plug in the 20 amp cord (no 30 amp service - what was that about?) to keep the batteries charged up.
In the morning, all is good, but I decide to plug in to the 50 amp service so I can run the electric heaters & save some of our propane, and some of the $$ to buy the propane.
Within 5 minutes of plugging into the 50 amp service, we all smell smoke. Electrical smoke. What could be going on? We've never had an electrical problem before. Finally, I see the connectors to the water heater have melted. Smoking. ? OK. Maybe it was time for the water heater to die. I switch the water heater to propane. So much for saving on propane.
My wife turns on the blow dryer. Sparks shoot out. YIKES! Turn OFF the blow dryer. Unplug. Then I decide enough is enough, and unplug from the campground power. A few minutes later, I notice the furnace doesn't seem to be igniting as it should. Hmmm. Interesting.
Later we had a mobile RV repair guy come to the bus down in Texas. Still no furnace ignition. Diagnostics show the circuit board was ka-put.
So, during that stay, within 5 minutes of plugging in to the power, we lost a blow dryer, water heater board, furnace circuit board. (replaced with a dino, so not all bad there).
Looking back, the generator looks pretty inexpensive. Nothing wrong with a truck stop overnight. I like the sound of the generator.
I know there are surge protectors for 50 amp service, but they seem very pricey. $500+. I don't know if we'll go that route.
We are going to stick with boondocking unless we are going to stay at a well-known campground, with good ratings.
My thoughts on campground power. Be careful!
Of course, I'm eager to hear what other folk are doing to protect themselves from problems with external power problems - especially of the 50 amp variety.
Kind Regards fellow-busnuts,
Phil
Well, all this is well and good, but you don't indicate if you found out what the problem was that caused all this. Maybe it was the RV park wiring, maybe it's something in your coach. If it were the RV park, and you could prove it, you might have a case for their insurance to pay for your damages.
I guess, though, that one thing I'd do first is invest in a digital multimeter, and learn how to use it to determine if the shore power
box is wired properly BEFORE I plugged in. You can get a really cheap on for $4 from harbor freight. It's good enough to tell you if you have a problem, and if you screw up and fry it, you're only out $4. I suggest you get 2 or 3. Consider them disposable tools.
craig
Hi Craig,
You are absolutely correct. We had to be on the road early the next morning, so no chance to diagnose the park wiring we had hooked up to. Plus, I'd need to learn how to read / interpret themultimeter output for a 50 amp service.
Best I could do was make an educated based on:
* 3 years with no electrical problems
* within 5 minutes, 3 failures on 3 different units after plugging into campground 50 amp service.
BUT - I cannot tell for sure- I have plugged in the little diagnostic lights into the bus before, as well as a multi-meter, and have not spotted anything out of the ordinary.
One thing I did think was unusual at the campground was I did notice the voltage meters in the bus showed A/C power at 129 volts. Normally this is at 117-120 volts using the genset or shore power.
I do have an analog multi-meter. I can get a digital unit. I'll need to learn what it should read for a correctly wired pole. Sounds like a good skillset.
Best Regards, Phil
I've got one of those little yellow 120 volt diagnostic LED hickeys that I think Phil was refeing to: It has 2 yellow and 1 red light, tells of ground is open, black & white wires switched, etc.
What we need is one of those that work with 50 amp receptacles....tell if votlage is correct and ground is right, etc.
It would be EZ to check the park recp b/4 plugging in the coach.
Anyone know of one?
Question regarding 50 amp service related to Phil's probem.
Isn't it two 120v legs with a gound and a neutral? Or what does it consist of?
This is scary stuff. I guess the main thing is to NOT TRUST the sites for proper voltage coming into the coach. Looks like I will have to invest in a surge protector at some point in time, between the pole and the coach.
Phil, it could have been a lot worse than losing a hair dryer and a couple of boards. Glad you are all safe and sound. How did your wife's hair turnout, curly. ;D
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
HaHaHa - Paul. Veerrrry FUNNNY!
Curly Hair. Ahem, of course, you would NOT see me laughing when it happened. :o 'Cause THAT would have been REALLY BAD for my health. 8) I'll take my chances with the electrical circuits. :D
Best Regards, Phil
Phil, I think all you need is a good voltmeter. Analog is great for the voltages we are working with. What you need, in my opinion is a 5 minute lesson in how to use it and what to actually check for before you plug into a campground circuit. The 129 volt reading is very suspicious.
Paul, it is two 120 volt legs to neutral/ground. Since Phil has apparently plugged into 50 amp outlets at other campgrounds, then I strongly suspect there was a wiring error at the location where he had the problem.
Here is my attempt at showing what to expect at a CG outlet, trying to keep it as simple as possible.
Len
I saw a more experienced camper last year that had a sensor that plugged in similar to what ChuckMC8 is talking about. He has all kinds of adapters and to check on 50 amp service or 30 amp service before connecting up he connects up the adapters to each other necessary to be able to plug in this little OLE 3 yelllow 1 red led connector that will show if the system is copesitic to use. I did see something similar at the Daytona RV show last year but this cost abut $400 If I remember correctly. This little contraption that Chuck is talking about is much less but just as effective for those not having a volt meter and when you do have a meter, are we using it correctly if we do not really know how to check. Not sure where to get it, maybe camping world but we got to find out as a quick check aparatus to have on board.
I will get the adapters I mention above and connect the ones I need together to use this 120 volt led device that lights up if everything is connected right and the lights show it as such. This may help in a pinch until another busnut here knows of something better but affordable that will share with us.
Glad Phil you guys are alright, just think if it had not happened as quickly as it did it could of happened while you slept, then good grief what a thought. Another lesson learned here, lets get infomation on something affordable to help us all out and make sure these cut price campgrounds are running their power to our rigs correctly. Thanks Phil for posting this for us. Now we got to make an (After trip check off sheet), man there is no end and that HELP section will surely get filled with information but so useful to us all.
Don't just jump out of your rig, open up your shore power cable access door and plug in, check it out first for good and proper connections before we sacrifice our bus, our equipment and perhaps our lives.
Gary
Yes len those are the basic six tests
1. 220-240
2. 110-120
3. 110-120
4. 0 NO READING
5. 110-120
6. 110-120
these six tests will show that the ground and neutral are good and that there is the correct voltage at each leg.
Melbo
Awsome information from you guys, thanks Len & Melbo, this is what we need more of. Appreciate this.
Gary
Awesome information guys. Thank you!!!! This is very helpful.
Hey everyone - make sure to click on Len's picture with the left mouse button to get the image to enlarge to full size.
Best Regards, Phil
Quote from: Melbo on January 27, 2007, 04:53:33 PM
Yes len those are the basic six tests
1. 220-240
2. 110-120
3. 110-120
4. 0 NO READING
5. 110-120
6. 110-120
these six tests will show that the ground and neutral are good and that there is the correct voltage at each leg.
Melbo
Out here in the country, the voltage at my shore power pod runs a bit higher than the recommended. My digital reads out at 119-126 VAC. Usually at 122-123 VAC.
Jay
87 SaftLiner
Additional help on copying this valuable information from Len Silva & Melbo,
Left click as Phil has suggested on the schematic that Len Silva made, it will become enlarged, then right click and select "COPY", then go to your computer office program and make a document labeled to corrrespond to this schematic, (CampGround Power connectins) etc, then ("Paste") this same schematic in your office program. Print out a hard copy for your bus files to keep onboard incase you forget what to do and what the readouts should be per Melbo's information as well. If you do not select just this schematic of Len's you will print out the entire thread post and you don't have to do that. I did and it is about 7 pages!! Another lesson learned, I hope you benefit from it. And the schematic was small as the post you first see.
Do the same with the information from Melbo's post, this is valuable stuff as Phil can tell you and perhaps many others that experienced it, I am so glad that he shared this with us to think about, it can sure ruin a great trip if you don't check your campground power connections to your conversions or RV's like me right now, from here on out.
NOTE: Save this information after in a file special with this infomation that you can find later on.
Man I love getting this information I did not really think about 4 years ago, I will be a real pro by the time we go on our first camping trip with the Eagle! Whenever!!
Gary
Gary,in my opinion you are allready a pro with all you do to help others,Thanks Mike
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=24900&src=SRQB
would this be a viable option?
Len and Melbo, thank you both for some real world help, rather than just telling us we better chk those power pole connections! Thanks to your posts i will now dare to try to plug into shore power. I have been reluctant to try this because i have no knowledge of elec system on board, although it all seems to work well on the genset. Great sense of timing too guys, as i am getting pretty ramped up to go on first extended trip in less than two weeks. This diagram is printed out and put in my manual!
Another thing to watch on shore power is that everything can test out fine at the post but you can run into trouble under load, particularly if you have a high resistance ground on the post. I have a cheapo voltage meter plugged into one of the sockets in the kitchen. I'd highly recommend something like that for anyone who is routinely hooked up to unknown power sources.
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on January 28, 2007, 06:06:28 AM
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=24900&src=SRQB
would this be a viable option?
Possibly, but I'm a bit suspicious of the statement that it functions as a surge suppressor.
I contend you can do everything you need with a $4 cheapo multimeter from Harbor Freight. In fact, I bought one that has a separate on-off switch on it and we mounted it permanently in my father-in-law's trailer and modified the leads so they are permanently attached. We leave the dial in the reading position we want, and then just turn on the swtich when we want to see the reading. He uses it to read battery voltage.
I agree with Craig. It appears to only check one leg of the 120 volt incoming power and appears to do no more than the little three light indicators that plug into any electrical outlet. And it is really too late to check, after you have already plugged into shore power. You need to check at the pole.
Richard
Quote from: gumpy on January 28, 2007, 08:48:24 AM
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on January 28, 2007, 06:06:28 AM
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=24900&src=SRQB
would this be a viable option?
Possibly, but I'm a bit suspicious of the statement that it functions as a surge suppressor.
I contend you can do everything you need with a $4 cheapo multimeter from Harbor Freight. In fact, I bought one that has a separate on-off switch on it and we mounted it permanently in my father-in-law's trailer and modified the leads so they are permanently attached. We leave the dial in the reading position we want, and then just turn on the swtich when we want to see the reading. He uses it to read battery voltage.
I thank each of you for the ideas.
This is so valuable for all of us.
Gary,
Great idea to copy and paste in a document, I did it and will refer to it often.
Maybe we should have a help file just for electrical threads and documents. How about it Nick, Phil or Dallas!
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
John,
I am trying to get a handle on this product you mention, I like it but correct me if I mis-interput where to use it. I think it is used after being connected up to the shore power is connected up to your bus. 3 prong connection indicated a plug in type to me like a regular recepticle. I am more intuned to measuring before getting out my power cord for connecton like (Melbo & Len silva) gave us the schematic to train us to use you might say.
I still sort of like what the old timer I met I told you about that use what ever adapters are necessary to plug together to use that 110 volt led light with the red light aparatus to also check by use of the idiot lights on it to re-affirm the decision to connect up. I will not have all the nice toys on board some have but I do not want to lose any electrical equipment in any circumstanes and sure do not want to see anyone else do so either.
Having this meter John mentions is good proof after all good connections are made at the time of connection for peace of mind and also a way to see if there is a power loss because of inadequate incoming power for everyone on the campground and this monitor will send off an alarm telling us so that we can here. Checking before connections sounds safest but monitoring after is really a plus to peace of mind.
Gary
Help Files suggestion,
Richard is doing such a great job at filling this stuff for us now, perhaps we can ask that they be categorised such as electrical, brakes & air systems, tires, batteries and compartments, towing habits etc. and just keep adding them after we get enough to see how they would like to do this but man this is good stuff and any demonstrational photos would go a long way as well such as from Len Silva and Melbo. This is only a suggestion from a few of us that really want to make every conversion and traveling situation as successful for us all that we can and what better tool than our bulletin boards and this internet?
You can buy books on this stuff and it is great but actual circumstance of failures happening and the recommened corrections goes futher and certainly makes us think more of the seriousness of our hobby especially after seeing our busnut friends go through it. Admitting to a mistake in public is so beneficial to everyone not really thinking of all this stuff. If all this is categorised then it will be easiy researched. Now this is just a suggestion as I know our bd administrators in particular spend a lot of time in making this program great to do all this stuff.
Gary
Jim Stewart (H3Jim) has a slick set-up. He wired an outlet box in his bus between the land power cable and his main inlet breaker. Each of the outlets is wired to one leg of the 240. In each of the outlets, he has one of the yellow testers which he leaves installed. He opens the bus main breakers and does not close them until he has checked both testers.
The only thing that concerns me a very tiny bit is that these outlets are not protected by the proper sized breakers. He does leave the testers in place, so he is not tempted to use the outlets in the normal fashion.
My planned approach is to make a separate "pigtail" for both the 30A and 50A plugs. Each will have 120V outlets. I will then use my faithful Good Governor to check the legs of each application for polarity, voltage and frequency. After I check the power pole with the pigtail, I will then hook up the regular power cord with reasonable confidence. If I have any suspicion about the wiring, I will get out the voltmeter to double check the 240 volt reading
The Good Governor is described at:
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=16036
I have used mine for many years. It checks for correct wiring and digitally displays voltage and frequency. I first got it to check the frequency of my old gasoline generator I had in a truck conversion I did many years ago. The generator RPM (frequency) had to be adjusted often and this was a great tool.
I still use the GG often. I have good analog meters in my power panel and a good digital voltmeter, but I still love my GG, since it is easy to use. When we were in Charlotte for the FMCA, the generator supplying the power for several RVs was having lots of problems. Folks with sophisticated power protection systems could not hook up to the power on a consistent basis. I plugged in my GG and could monitor the power supply. It did not get out of a range that I thought was acceptable, so I continued to use the power I paid for.
I believe Nick has already started a topic on mechanical things and made it sticky so that it remains at the top of the board. I am concerned if we try and make several sticky topics that it will defeat the purpose of the board as originally outlined by Phil.
I have no problem with adding topics to the Help board and accumulating various posts, if that is desired. Such as I did for Gary's recent post. Let us know what you want and the moderators will decide how to do it.
Richard
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on January 28, 2007, 11:32:40 AM
Help Files suggestion,
Richard is doing such a great job at filling this stuff for us now, perhaps we can ask that they be categorised such as electrical, brakes & air systems, tires, batteries and compartments, towing habits etc. and just keep adding them after we get enough to see how they would like to do this but man this is good stuff and any demonstrational photos would go a long way as well such as from Len Silva and Melbo. This is only a suggestion from a few of us that really want to make every conversion and traveling situation as successful for us all that we can and what better tool than our bulletin boards and this internet?
You can buy books on this stuff and it is great but actual circumstance of failures happening and the recommened corrections goes futher and certainly makes us think more of the seriousness of our hobby especially after seeing our busnut friends go through it. Admitting to a mistake in public is so beneficial to everyone not really thinking of all this stuff. If all this is categorised then it will be easiy researched. Now this is just a suggestion as I know our bd administrators in particular spend a lot of time in making this program great to do all this stuff.
Gary
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on January 28, 2007, 11:20:13 AM
John,
I am trying to get a handle on this product you mention, I like it but correct me if I mis-interput where to use it. I think it is used after being connected up to the shore power is connected up to your bus. 3 prong connection indicated a plug in type to me like a regular recepticle. I am more intuned to measuring before getting out my power cord for connecton like (Melbo & Len silva) gave us the schematic to train us to use you might say.
I still sort of like what the old timer I met I told you about that use what ever adapters are necessary to plug together to use that 110 volt led light with the red light aparatus to also check by use of the idiot lights on it to re-affirm the decision to connect up. I will not have all the nice toys on board some have but I do not want to lose any electrical equipment in any circumstanes and sure do not want to see anyone else do so either.
Having this meter John mentions is good proof after all good connections are made at the time of connection for peace of mind and also a way to see if there is a power loss because of inadequate incoming power for everyone on the campground and this monitor will send off an alarm telling us so that we can here. Checking before connections sounds safest but monitoring after is really a plus to peace of mind.
Gary
Gary, I see a problem with this I think. It would appear that this would only check one of the hot legs of a 50 amp outlet.
I would recommend that a pig tail adapter be built that would plug directly into the 50 amp campground outlet and that it would have two of the 120 volt testers hard wired into the unit. That would make a quick and easy, and relatively inexpensive, way to check the 240 volt 50 amp campground outlet. I think I would also build one for the 30 amp, 120 volt outlet also.
Richard
OK, here is a simple adapter you can make to test the camp outlet before you plug in.
Take a standard 50AMP plug and attach a standard duplex outlet to it however you would like. I think you could drill a 1/2" hole in the cap of the 50A plug and mount a plastic outlet box right on it. Install a duplex outlet and BREAK THE TAB between the two brass screws. This will separate the two halves of the outlet. Leave the silver screws (neutrals) connected together.
Wire it up as shown and put one of those little three light testers in each outlet. You should end up with a handy, self contained tester.
Len
Where in the heck do you live Len, you are certainly my kind of guy on this stuff and again this is just a great and inexpensive way to check our camping connections. Man you got good info. Thanks again for sharing, already printed it out with the vmeter check. No more doubts now and no reason to have any for any of us reading this from you and Melbo.
Richard, you are right on two things tonight, lets see how you guys and everyone concerned with this bb'd as to how much stuff to keep on the Help section. We are all just excited about getting this simple stuff and do not want to lose it in time, I sure anin't going to tell you how to run your board, going to good now for sure. Item #2, I like Len silva's method recently posted of setting up the home made camp ground tester that is absolute proof to the camp ground owners that something is wrong with their power system.
Gary
Gary, yes Len's drawing is exactly what I was describing. It really could be made so that it plugged into the shore power outlet at the power pole with a male connector and then a female connector at the other end to plug the shore cord into. That way it would be in the circuit at all times for a quick check. It would need to be made waterproof though.
A similar box should also be made for the 30 amp 120 volt service.
Richard
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on January 28, 2007, 03:08:26 PM
Where in the heck do you live Len, you are certainly my kind of guy on this stuff and again this is just a great and inexpensive way to check our camping connections. Man you got good info. Thanks again for sharing, already printed it out with the vmeter check. No more doubts now and no reason to have any for any of us reading this from you and Melbo.
Richard, you are right on two things tonight, lets see how you guys and everyone concerned with this bb'd as to how much stuff to keep on the Help section. We are all just excited about getting this simple stuff and do not want to lose it in time, I sure anin't going to tell you how to run your board, going to good now for sure. Item #2, I like Len silva's method recently posted of setting up the home made camp ground tester that is absolute proof to the camp ground owners that something is wrong with their power system.
Gary
Again Len, your diagram really proves up the old saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words!"
Thanks again.
followup to lens' suggestion. .. and the picture.
If you're not inclined to manufacture your own product, it can be bought.
Here is a quick link I ran across.
http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/PWT-ADP50-15.htm
THIS HANDY ADAPTER ALLOWS THE "GOOD GOVERNOR" TO TEST LINE A (TOP 15A SOCKET) OR LINE B (BOTTOM 15A SOCKET) FOR PROPER VOLTAGE AND POLARITY BEFORE YOU PLUG YOUR RV INTO CAMPGROUND HOOKUP
Hope this helps.
For what is worth, I'm a newbie to the list and bus owner.
Just picked up a 82 Eagle already converted. Used to be an entertainer bus, and slightly reconfigured over the years to have a shower and full kitchen.
Living in Nashvegas, if anyone else is nearby, I'm looking to learn.
Evan
LegalEagle82,
Welcome to our hobby, our club also and we gots lots of information for you to read and if it hasn't been asked yet just post on this board and these guys will get you all the information you can handle most of the time.
This shore power connector for checking power connections before actually connecting our rigs up to shore power is the cats -uts, this is what Len was talking about, all ready done and at a reasonable cost and I am gonna get me one. You have already paid your dues to be a member, a very good suggestion here with this power connector to use, and is wired I am sure exactly as Len has suggested. I get turned on easily by the way as you can see. I wonder if they have one for just a 30 amp
connection or do we have to use an adapter which I am sure will work.
Thanks again, and good luck with our conversion.
Gary
I must be doing something wrong as I have NOT been able to see any of the diagrams that Len was positng. Am I missing something(other than the diagrams)?
Thanks
Fred Mc.
Quote from: Fred Mc on January 28, 2007, 10:01:27 PM
I must be doing something wrong as I have NOT been able to see any of the diagrams that Len was positng. Am I missing something(other than the diagrams)?
Thanks
Fred Mc.
Left click on the drqwing in len's post to enlarge it so that it is legible.
Richard
The power test cord make up that LegalEagle82 recommended should be here at my home in a couple of days, $41.89 total, I feel I have saved hundreds off the more expensive campground power connection devises on the market already. Now all I have to do is find two little do-hickeys with the 3 yellow and one red led light to plug into each one of the recepticles of this valuable power testing inspecting devise and leave connected forever for power checks only on both legs of the shore power supply at the same time!!!!!! The same place also has a plug in type of monitor left monitoring all the time for power drops and spikes suggested by Johnmc9. Once we are satisfied the park power at the time of our bus connection is good we can still depend upon an audible alarm system to tell us everthing is stilll doing great after we start living in our cabins. Visually seeing the meter is good also.
I believe we have nipped this in the bud thanks to Phil for starting it and as a group we have come up with a great plan to protect our rigs against un-protected shore power connections.
I want to also mention that the post by Jim-safetyman is similar to len silvas drawing and LegalEagle82's suggested power tester I ordered. You guys are all on the same track for sure.
Thanks again,
Gary
Fred - most of the time i want to chk on the board, i am signed in. It just leaves my name and password in there. But every once in a while it lets me "view" the posts, although i am not technically signed in,,, and when this happens you don't get to view the photos. Maybe this is all thats wrong,, be sure you are signed in. As a newbie, i was frustrated at not knowing why i could not see photos too.
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on January 29, 2007, 05:57:06 AM
The power test cord make up that LegalEagle82 recommended should be here at my home in a couple of days, $41.89 total, I feel I have saved hundreds off the more expensive campground power connection devises on the market already. Now all I have to do is find two little do-hickeys with the 3 yellow and one red led light to plug into each one of the recepticles of this valuable power testing inspecting devise and leave connected forever for power checks only on both legs of the shore power supply at the same time!!!!!! The same place also has a plug in type of monitor left monitoring all the time for power drops and spikes suggested by Johnmc9. Once we are satisfied the park power at the time of our bus connection is good we can still depend upon an audible alarm system to tell us everthing is stilll doing great after we start living in our cabins. Visually seeing the meter is good also.
That was a great link by LegalEagle82. Gary, the meter you mentioned, is that the "Good Governor (http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/GG-101.htm)"? It looks really handy since it reads not only the voltage and polarities but also the line frequency. I am definitely putting that on my list.
I'm sure you also noticed the 30amp adapter (http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/PWT-ADP30-15.htm) for the meter.
Now all we need is a magic wand to correct all polarity/voltage/frequency problems when found. ;D
Hightechredneck,
The monitoring meter I mentioned was mentioned by Newbiemc9 and he posted this web site
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=24900&src=SRQB
The meter probably does exactly the same as the good govonor. This is a matter of research between the two to determine what you really want.
Thanks for making me aware that in the web site for the test line adapter that there was a 30 amp adapter also located 1" from the test line adapter on the web site that I ordered on line Dahhhhhhh!!! I am going to camping world in a few minutes, for new toys for S&S right now and also to see if they have those little yellow do-hickeys with the two yellow led lights and one red one to put in each recepticle connection of the test adapterthe test line adapter and will see if their 30 amp adapter is any cheaper or nearly the same price as the one in the test line adapter website. Thanks again, I did not really realize the 30 amp adapter in the web site was what I really wanted last night, got all excited seeing the made up part that len had recommended we make. I couldn't make it up for the price they are selling it if you get all the parts and the time involved.
Gary
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on January 29, 2007, 08:36:09 AM
....... I couldn't make it up for the price they are selling it if you get all the parts and the time involved.
Gary
I agree, if you don't have most of that stuff in your junk box already, that's a good deal. I have found the 4 wire 50 Amp range cords at garage sales and flea markets pretty cheap.
Len
I would NOT TRUST the Good Governor, I have two of them for a couple of years they do not read the correct voltage all the time. you readjust them and in a couple of days or in a few hours their off anywhere from 3 - to 10 volts all the time. you can readjust them all you want, they will not stay there. In my opinon they are not trustworthy. I've purchase others that are on target all the time. never had to readjust them at all. I also have that plug set up it works great using the polarites plug in . the one with the three lights.
Pete & Jean
Fantasy
Quote from: Fred Mc on January 28, 2007, 10:01:27 PM
I must be doing something wrong as I have NOT been able to see any of the diagrams that Len was positng. Am I missing something(other than the diagrams)?
Thanks
Fred Mc.
Hi Fred,
As John mentioned, without signing in, you can still read posts, but not see images. This is one of the ways we try to bring some small measure of security to the board. Once signed in though, you should be able to see all images.
Welcome to the board! Please let us know if you are still having problems seeing the images.
Hope this helps, Phil
Anyone else having trouble with this bb'd running so slooooooooooo? Sometimes it does not want to go from one screen to another and it completely lost my last post so here I am again but will make it shorter this time incase of a repeat.
Purchased 3 power polarity indicators, they have 2 yellow lights and 1 red one as an indicator to use with my shore power inspection cord I ordered last night. They cost $3.99 ea. at LOWES. Get a spare just in case, you need two in order to keep connected up permanetly to check 50 amp connections all the time before plugging in your bus land line. The spare can be used with the 30 amp adaptor I also got today at nearly a $2 savings from the www price lof ast night. $2.49 at Camping World.
Well I feel I am in good shape now for campground connection protection before connecting up our S&S, hope you all consider this post infomation as a good precautionary measure that could save you much money or more in due time.
Thanks Pete81Eagle for the heads up on the Govonor power monitor failures, will look around for this next. Anyone have one not costing more than they should be that we all can use, come on Len, lets not quite here, how about Jim-safetyman, or Melbo. What are good experienced suggestions on this cabin plug in monitor that is not a ridiculously priced item that we can use for monitoring with some kind of indicator alarm that we can depend upon for spikes or brownouts etc.?
Gary
Quote from: pete81eaglefanasty on January 29, 2007, 10:32:41 AM
I would NOT TRUST the Good Governor, I have two of them for a couple of years they do not read the correct voltage all the time. you readjust them and in a couple of days or in a few hours their off anywhere from 3 - to 10 volts all the time. you can readjust them all you want, they will not stay there. In my opinon they are not trustworthy. I've purchase others that are on target all the time. never had to readjust them at all. I also have that plug set up it works great using the polarites plug in . the one with the three lights.
Pete & Jean
Fantasy
Pete, I have had my GG for many years and find that it is quite reliable. On mine, there is no voltage adjustment. I check mine againts the grid quite often (we are the connected to a huge transformer that is way over capacity)and with my digital voltmeter every once in a while. When we were having problems in Charlotte at the FMCA rally, I did a lot of checking of my system and my neighbor's system and the GG was always spot on with my meter.
Evan, The link you provided is exactly what I described, and is a fair price. I am in the process of ordering one now.
Well Jim I guess you got a good one. I know a friend of mine his is just as bad as mine always adjusting it. the adjustment is in the inside.I was told by the man who invented them how to adjust them, I called them and he was the one who told me how to adjust them.
I check mine offen with other meters, like 3 others meters in the bus which all read the same, along with a fluke and a Simpsom.
I'm glad that yours is working good for you.
Pete & Jean
Fantasy
Gary & others,
While checking the pole power with those fancy adapters & 'idiot' light testers, please understand they are only ONE indicator of the quality of power. You are checking it without a load on the circut. If it chacks 'bad', you KNOW to NOT plug in. If it checks OK, you still need to be cautious & monitor it under load to see if it changes.
Poor connections prior to the pole will pass voltage at very low current levels, but when the load is increased (higher current draw), the voltage drops. Low voltage will damage lots of things.
Having a volt meter in a prominent location is important too. Dad has one & you'd be surprised by how much the voltage varies in some campgrounds.
Kyle,
I agree, that is why I do believe we should have a monitor on our power line circuts after connecting up to the shore power and will research this and get the best one that is affordable that is that will keep my system being monitored and with an alarm system to alert me of a potential spike or brown out. We have to have a safe begining at the pole to satisfy me now after phils experience and then after the connections as you and a couple of others here have suggested.
Thanks
Gary
Jim Shepherd is correct, I added simple circuit that stays available all the time, using two of the simple 3 light indicators. I plug into the shore power, but the switches at the entry point stay off until I check the power quality. Its true, at this time I'm only checking polarity etc with the three light indicators, but is very easy, and was very inexpensive (less than $12) to add.
I have a box where the main power cable attaches, and there are circuit breakers in the box that double as switches. I added a duplex outlet on the outside of the box and wired it so its prior to the circuit breakers where all power comes into the coach. I broke the tabs on the sides of outlet, so each outlet can be wired separately, and then I wired one to each leg of the 240 volt power coming in. I plugged the 3 light indicators into this, so all I have to do is glance at them before turning on the power to the coach.
I think that the main things that can damage my inverter are the polarity issues, while a little brownout is automatically made up for by the inverter itself from my batteries.
Jim is also correct in that these two outlets are not fused, however its the same circuit that that RV place sells for $40 and it does not have protection either. Due to the out of the way location, and the fact that I have two detectors already plugged in, and that the RV park's breakers protect it, I am not concerned that this duplex is not fused in the coach itself.
All and all I find it to have been a very inexpensive solution to this issue. Cost was a box, a duplex receptacle and some short pieces of scrap wire I took out of my throwout box.
SHORE POWER POLARITY TESTING DEVISE
Thanks to everyone posting on this subject I have assembled a shore power connecting devise per your recommendations and here is the actual devise in use and hopefully newbies to this hobby in particular will take note and consider this problem that happened to Phil which could of been deadly. Here is the information:
I wanted to show you all the fully assembled shore power polarity testing devise that I have assembled to stay that way forever in my RV / Bus power connection storage area. Now I will be able to assure myself before connecting up to any camping ground or shore power source that before I connect my rigs power cord into the power box connector that I have good shore power source to start with to help protect my rigs electrical components.
It is advised to also have a permanent electrical voltage monitoring alarm system also installed in your rig that will sound an alarm should a electrical spike or severe voltage drop occur you will have the opportunity to hear this and take action to protect your electrical system.
I am enclosing photos of my devise actually being used for testing on my 50 amp service box at my home as well as my 120 volt receptacle also in this power box which is a similar set up at a camp ground.
This is just a quick assurance of the shore power source; skeptics can also check the voltage with a volt meter for re-assurance to also be safe. Remember what happened to Phil's rig. The choice is yours as usual, this information is only a reference guide put together with information submitted by other more experienced Busnuts.
I am also enclosing a photo of the small solar power battery charging devise I use which is (5 watt) and is constantly charging my two RV batteries all times or keeping them at a good level to just allow me to jump in and drive anytime without fear of having a bad battery. The 5 watt solar power panel was purchased at Camping World, and is enough to just keep two batteries charged without the fear of overcharging. I have been using this set up since we went to Arcadia in December and the voltage right now on a sort of ½ sunny day at 3 PM is 13.59 volts. But this will drop somewhat at night and cloudy days. Again, this is only a suggestion what to get to help you keep your batteries at a safe level and ready to go and the power source is free!! The cost is about $65 +/- a few dollars and watch for the sale prices also.
The address for the shore power connection devise I have assembled is sold on the internet at: http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/PWT-ADP50-15.htm
And cost about $45 with S/H. This was recommended by Busnuts previously on this post. It is well made, the 50 amp / 120 volt power test receptacle is divided to monitor both legs of a 50 amp service individually for assurance incoming power lsource of both legs are functioning properly.
The 3 yellow led light / red light testing devises are purchased at Lowe's for ($3.98 Each). You can put this in your power connection storage space and always leave it here to use for yourself or a neighbor also questioning his incoming shore power and has no way of checking it before connecting his rig up to it. This is very cheap price for re-assurance of good power connections to start with on you vacation trips.
Hope this information helps some of you in doubt when connecting up to shore power, this is a suggested way as you can see how to check your incoming shore power source and I also recommend that you search for a constant power monitor for your power system to always be used after connecting up to shore power.
Gary
Gary, that"s the same thing I purchased about three years ago, looks the same as yours. It sure works great, I use it before pluging in to play it safe, you will never know if the campground wiring is correct or not.
Pete & Jean
Fantasy
Thanks Pete & Jean,
I did not give full credit for those making this possible without reading the entire post again but know I feel good about having it thanks to you and others also and hope everyone considers having one in their connetion storage box.
Thanks to everyone one more time. I 'm Outta here!!
Gary
Hi Gary,
Does this device also determine if there is true 220volts or can the park slip us 2- 115volt legs but not adding up to 240v?
I had this problem in Arcadia, both legs of my 50 amp outlet were the same 115v. Hence, my inability to run both my A/C's.
Nick-
Nick,
I cannot make a truthful or definite committment to answer this, and hope that Len Silva and a few others more experienced with this testing devise can comment on. To tell you the truth I am a little baffeled by your question at first as it never occured to me this was possible also.
Those of you that have more electrical knowledge Please correct me if wrong on this
This devise is checking each leg for good polarity only, it is not measuring the actual voltage of each leg, I do suggest because of your question to measure the two power supply live legs with a volt meter. Now we still have to use the meter and if this can happen to us at Arcadia then it can happen anyplace. So all we have accomplished here is that polarity is good but no true measure of voltage. Again this can be monitored on your permanent in line alarm connection also inside your rig but the quick safe check will still be the measuring of a Volt meter.
Thanks Nick, this was not a thought of mine to be able to happen but that is why it is good to ask questions, offer information and if it is not truly accurate others more experienced can point that out. Polarity is important but accurate voltage also rank up there as far as importance for rigs with high tech electrical devises as Nicks and many, many others.
Lets try get final good feed back on this post with my posted photos of this test devise and what your recommendations are for best checking of voltage and then we can put this to rest.
Thanks ahead of time to all that post.
Gary
Here is a pic of my built in box and testers. Very similar, but permanantly mounted, can't loose it, although I can't lend it either. As you can see I have my own circuit breakers before going into the couch. I have lots of fuses and circuit brakers all over. These are likely to only function as a switch, but you never know.
Fewer parts required.
Nick, the circuit tester will not show if it is true 240 or just 2 legs of 120 ea., but it would be easy to add another light to indicate such. A small neon bulb hooked to each hot leg would light when true 240, and wouldn't light at all if 2 of the same 120 leg.
Ed
Nick,
Years ago it used to be 110v then 115v then 120v, 208 to 220 to 240v, 440v, 460v, 480v. I think the reason for this is that it is not really what it says and voltages suppled by the power transformer have increased over the years. If you use a multimeter to test the voltage notice it is never acutually what the industry calls it. It can be over or under by several volts.
I may be totally wrong because I am not a certified electrician, only from my experience troubleshooting equipment in the Concrete Block Industry.
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
i have a power pal it plugs into the outlet and reads both legs and preforms 7 tests and tells you if its ok to plug into never had any problems you can get a adpater for 30amps
I forgot to Thank Gary for sharing the photos and information regarding the volt tester Also H3Jim, thanks. I like your idea of the permanent mount, and then having a spare like the one Gary made, to use or loan out to a fellow camper.
Great Ideas Guys!
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
OK, I'm really, really late to this party. I came to this thread because Jim Shepherd referenced it in another thread that is currently running.
That said, I felt it too important not to post this:
Jim Stewart and Gary LaBombard (and anyone following their plans) -- I see a major flaw in the mechanism you are using for testing.
There is nothing at all wrong with the concept of wiring two separate outlets to the two legs, and then checking each with the three-light tester -- IF you test each outlet separately (in other words, use just one tester and move it between outlets.
If you leave two identical testers connected as you have shown, they will show "normal" (or, if you prefer, "good") even if the neutral at the 50-amp outlet is completely disconnected. That's due to the way they are wired internally, and the fact that you will essentially be running the two hot-to-neutral lamps together in series between the two hots. So they will both have the proper lamp lit, even though there is no neutral whatsoever.
Disconnect either tester in this circumstance, and the other one will immediately read "open neutral."
I would encourage each of you to ditch one of the two testers shown in your photos, and move the remaining one between outlets for each test.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Hi Phil,
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the power post you were pluged into had an open neutral. Therefore, your 120 volt appliances were getting 240 volts. Thankfully you only lost 3 items, because anything else you would have turned on would have suffered a similar fate.
Good luck, Sam 4106
Phil
Here's what I've got planned. Three analog meters - two 0-150 volt and one 0-300 volt. The 0-150 volt meters are wired hot to neutral for each leg. The 0-300 volt meter is wired hot to hot. Not only will this allow you to read the voltages of each leg, it will read between legs for when one is connected to a (real) 50 amp circuit with two hot legs, one neutral, and one ground. I suppose another meter could be wired ground to neutral if one wanted to know if there was an open neutral. If the 0-300 meter doesn't read anything, you're connected to 120 volts only, even though it may be supplied to each leg.
Our neutral conductors are only capable of carrying 50 amps, so this could be an issue if, say, 35 amps were being pulled through each hot leg of our cables. Our Neutral would then be required to pull 70 amps - not a good thing. Has anybody experienced a power pole that has the two hot legs on the same 'side'? If so, it would probably be a good idea to make a 50 amp adapter which connects both output hots to one input hot (like having a 50 amp, 120 volt generator) to keep this from being an issue. Just an additional thought...
David
Sean,
good point, I'm glad you brought it up. Kind of embarrasing not to have thought of it myself. And I thought I was being clever. Thanks.
Mostly I never plug in anyway, but all it takes is once to destroy a lot of expensive equipement.
JIm
I'm in the process of building a modified version of this (2 meters, diff design etc) which looks pretty much like what everyone has been talking about. Also want to make one that is static mount, non portable although my thoughts are that it might be nice to go sniffing out a pole with the proper wiring if you find a bad one. Probably all are bad though if one is.
Thoughts?
http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm (http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/tester_50amp.htm)
hmmm, might be time to revisit Gumpy's post on the 1st page of this thread about using a 4.00 multimeter. Also Len's post about the how to test the power outlet at campgrounds on the same page. I can't see how it would take much longer to use the multimeter tha n it would to plug these devices in and read them. Does anyone still have Len's drawing on how to do the test?
I have a number of DMM's and I use them on a regular basis for my work but I've also used one of these and properly setup they are very quick and easy.
Personal preference per use I guess.
Wow. Well, I really did not intend to fully resurrect a thread that's more than a year old -- I just wanted to point out what I felt to be an important safety issue.
As long as people are still posting, though:
Dave in NC -- your three-meter solution has the same problem that I pointed out with using two three-light testers at once: if the two hot-to-neutral meters are identical units, they will both read a "good" 120 each when on a 240 service, even if the neutral is "open." You really need to isolate the meters so that only one is connected at a time, or, better yet, save the cost of one meter, and use a dpdt switch to switch it from leg1 to leg2. If you want to get really fancy, you can use a dp3t rotary switch and a 0-250v meter and just have one meter. Putting a meter between ground and neutral, BTW, will not help you with this particular failure -- the meter will read very close to zero if the neutral is connected, but it might also read very close to zero if the neutral is open.
Paladin -- your photos also show the same liability. You need to use the three-light tester on one side at a time in order to get a valid test.
You just can't beat even a cheap voltmeter for getting the best indication of a bad pedestal. Keep one with your power cord, and get in the habit of using it every time.
Bear in mind that even that will not protect you fully. See http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2007/08/my-turn-to-catch-up-on-photos.html (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2007/08/my-turn-to-catch-up-on-photos.html) (and the other posts referenced within it.
We've encountered enough miswired pedestals and ones with bad breakers that I now carry some extra 6-gauge wire and spare 50-amp double-pole and 30-amp single-pole breakers, so I can get most bad or non-functional pedestals working in a pinch.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sean,
My setup is actually more for monitoring. It's mounted in the kitchen with with the gen. switch and other controls. I'll keep it as-is for it's intended purpose (I keep forgetting about the current flowing through one meter to the other with an open neutral). I do use one of those quickie testers - when I can remember where it is - with the camper and a couple of times with the bus. Otherwise, I use my old Fluke meter, as I alway know where that is.
David
Quote from: plyonsMC9 on January 27, 2007, 12:09:26 PM
So, there we were, going through Oklahoma. Late night. We want a place to pull over. We see a campground in the guidebook. Says it is being renovated. If we pull in, we don't need to run the generator all night to keep furnace running, batteries charged. etc.
Power pole looked suspect. No matter. "We've never had a problem before." I thought to myself. Hahaha. In retrospect, many times I wonder what was going through my head to think such thoughts. Anyways, I can't find my 50 amp cable, so I plug in the 20 amp cord (no 30 amp service - what was that about?) to keep the batteries charged up.
In the morning, all is good, but I decide to plug in to the 50 amp service so I can run the electric heaters & save some of our propane, and some of the $$ to buy the propane.
Within 5 minutes of plugging into the 50 amp service, we all smell smoke. Electrical smoke. What could be going on? We've never had an electrical problem before. Finally, I see the connectors to the water heater have melted. Smoking. ? OK. Maybe it was time for the water heater to die. I switch the water heater to propane. So much for saving on propane.
My wife turns on the blow dryer. Sparks shoot out. YIKES! Turn OFF the blow dryer. Unplug. Then I decide enough is enough, and unplug from the campground power. A few minutes later, I notice the furnace doesn't seem to be igniting as it should. Hmmm. Interesting.
Later we had a mobile RV repair guy come to the bus down in Texas. Still no furnace ignition. Diagnostics show the circuit board was ka-put.
So, during that stay, within 5 minutes of plugging in to the power, we lost a blow dryer, water heater board, furnace circuit board. (replaced with a dino, so not all bad there).
Looking back, the generator looks pretty inexpensive. Nothing wrong with a truck stop overnight. I like the sound of the generator.
I know there are surge protectors for 50 amp service, but they seem very pricey. $500+. I don't know if we'll go that route.
We are going to stick with boondocking unless we are going to stay at a well-known campground, with good ratings.
My thoughts on campground power. Be careful!
Of course, I'm eager to hear what other folk are doing to protect themselves from problems with external power problems - especially of the 50 amp variety.
Kind Regards fellow-busnuts,
Phil
If you look at the box on the receptacle will have 2 blades and a lug (little haft moon looking thing) If you test each blade to the lug you should get 110-120 v
It sounds like the lug was hot So it was running 120 v through the lug and a blade It might light ,lights but any electrons it will blow out GFI breakers will trip if that happens( improper ground) there about $20 each
as per amperage The only way to test for that is under load
mike
I logged out and logged back in and I still do not see anything to click on in Len's post.
Me also. No sketches or photos, only dialogue.
Mark