I've seen some threads around on this where everyone checks in with MPG, which I am curious about. I've done two measured runs so far.
1982 MCI MC9 6V92TA - running AC from an inverter pulling from the main alternator, so there was some draw there.
One of 600 miles or so with mixed idling, traffic and hwy, trying to stay with traffic hitting 75 in the flats, that ended up around 6-6.5 mpg
Last one was 220 miles, mostly hwy, some traffic in St. Paul construction during rush hour, gah! This time around I didn't care if I got passed, I took it up to 70 on the down hills, but then let it settle in around 60-65 depending - 8.5 mpg
How do you calculate your MPG?Are there things you can hook up to measure live data / fuel consumption? in a bus like mine? Right now I just take miles traveled and divide by fuel used. But because I have no odometer I use Google Maps after the fact to measure my route.
How to Improve MPG?Obviously the biggest factor is your right foot. But then what?
- Air Filter? (not sure when mine has been cleaned, messing with it at all has me nervous in reading technomadia's experience of losing the engine to it getting sucked into the intake)
- Tire Pressure? - I'm running mine at a mix of 110 to 90psi, my home compressor won't fill much past 90, thinking of using the cus air line in the rear right as a fill once the main pressure hits 120psi. I'd like to run all my tires around 110. I know the ride might not be as nice but I'd love to hit 9 mpg or so.
- Fuel Filter? - Not sure if mine have been changed, I suppose I should.
I think around 6mpg is a good average. Beyond that the saying goes, "If you gotta ask, you can't afford it" lol
re: if you gotta ask, you can't afford - If Warren Buffet lives in a normal small house and doesn't throw 100's out his window for the fun of it, I can too.
Nothing wrong with being efficient :-)
The bottom line is there is not much to work with. I mean a 10% improvement from 6.0 to 6.7 mph doesn't show up much at the pump. So instead of paying $330 for some diesel you now pay $300. Sure, every bit helps but at least for me that difference doesn't dry many tears. LOL
If you don't have an accurate odometer using google maps is not accurate. I get 8 mpg in my 6V92TA @ 350HP and 4.11 gearing. I can go 80mph @ 2350 rpm. I have a tachometer, and that is the tool to get the best fuel milage. If I can keep it below 1800 rpm's which ends up being 62 mph I can get easily 8mpg, maybe better. I just don't like driving that slow so I go 70-75, and still get 7.5. Towing my pick-up drops it down to 6.5 mpg, towing a 20' 10k trailer has me at 4.5 -5 mpg.
--Geoff
If you are in the 6.5 range you are ok, the 740 is a 1:1 final ratio unlike Geoffs V730 that is a 3 speed with a OD ratio of .875:1 your foot and the load will dictate your fuel mileage
I was able to load my bus into the Fuelly.com account that I use for my other vehicles. Open up the site on the phone, and enter data as I fill up, or get the receipt and write the odometer reading down so I can enter it later. I don't do anything special to determine my fuel economy, just drive normally. I can usually account for MPG changes driving type/style/towing/speed.
Adding the odometer to your MCI shouldn't be much more difficult than finding the parts. Once you have the odometer, any method that you choose for tracking will work better. And it will help you track some maintenance items better.
http://www.fuelly.com/truck/motor_coach_industries/102a3/1991/jasons/632074 (http://www.fuelly.com/truck/motor_coach_industries/102a3/1991/jasons/632074)
Thanks for all the replies everyone.
lovrubus: mine is a 4 speed automatic, no idea what beyond that.
In 3rd it tops out around 50, the. 4 or OD I have no idea top speed, been above 75 down a hill but I don't like it much.
What is this MPG you speak of? :o I have a hub meter that reads in something close to KM's travelled. I have a fuel gauge that seems to stay full until it jumps to a half a tank, then goes to 1/4 in a few miles. I have no clue what my fuel mileage is. I just fill up every day or two on a trip, and give the bill to my wife.
Re fuel gauge, I know right? I was thinking "sweet 300 miles down only used an 1/8th tank .... And I'm at 1/2"
Yeah, I was warned that the gauge in mine only went to 3/4 when full so not all that accurate. I just topped it off and watched it go down and topped up to learn about how much fuel was used/left. After a few times I have a good sense of where it is now. Like how much $$$ to fill from that point. LOL
I write down how much fuel I put in, the odometer reading and the date. After 1,000 gallons I add up my mileage and divide by gallons to get a reasonably accurate all around figure.
The key is to know if your odometer and speedometer are correct. For this, a gps speedometer is useful. If the speed on gps does not match road speed then you're probably using tyres that aren't the right size rather than any mechanical problem.
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Divide the gallons, (US) into the miles traveled and get a figure. That would give you the ROAD MILEAGE. APU or generator usage will not enter into the road mileage but will affect the usage.
My old Crown Supercoach got around 10.5 mpg at 55-60 mph. About 1500 rpm at 60 in 10th gear. Twinkie. Pretty slick at a moderate speed. But if pushed to 75 or flat out 80 I imagine it was poor.
If you sit at a Boon Docker non improved camping site for months while Campground Hosting, divide your usage into the days sitting and get a figure for usage. Not MPG. Gallons per day.
If parked in the shade and if you spare the house bank, you might not need to run the APU that much. All electric coach? But on washing/recharge day or when hot and muggy, high consumption?
Separate considerations for diesel fuel consumption. But overall, both must be added together. For propane use I do not know. Perhaps all added together to get a monthly $money$ expenditure?
3.53 rear end, 5 speed 755CR trans, 8V92TA and 40,000 lbs, pulling a 2013 Ford Super Crew. 5 MPG.
LOL !
My fuel mileage goes like this: when the gauge gets close to 1/4, or I've gone 500 to 800 miles, I pull in to a gas station and fill it, give lots of money, and be on my way. Nothing else you can do... If I was so concerned about fuel mileage, I would go on a bicycle holiday instead...
JC
Sort of in accurate, unless you don't run the generator-or the generator has it's own fuel tank. I know what fuel mileage I get with my bus (5-6), so when dry camping and running the generator alot, I can figure out how much fuel I burned in the generator. Like at the Escapees Tucson, I ran the generator during the day for 6 days, about 40 hours worth and burned 28 gal. Not bad considering how much they wanted for 30amp hookups.
On my truck, I have a 150gal fuel tank and a separate 75gal generator fuel tank-but with a cross over with valves if I need it. Good Luck, TomC
Hi neon, in winter time, fill up as much as you can, top off. At the end of your trip, top off again, divide gallons by mileage, voila, miles per gallon this trip. lvmci ...
Everyone else on here is somewhat close. Actually, the best method is to calculate it based on two trips. The one should involve a lot of highway driving. The other involves city driving. Take your number of miles for each trip, and divide by number of gallons used. You should end up with something like 6.5 highway driving and 5.0 for city driving. Then take those two numbers and add them together. In this case, 11.5mpg. A guy who was looking at our bus didn't believe me when I told him we got 11.5mpg. Go figure. Some people these days ::) ::) ::)
Electronic engines are easy to figure fuel mileage just plug the electronic gadget in and it tells you without any BS.
I did that to a friend of mine that had a 12 mpg (so he said) series 50 lol it came back 7.2 he told me DDR was lying
That's one thing I was wondering about. Does a 1982 DD 6v92 have any chance at having any brains to track that?
I just finished a 7 day tour with a 06 Prevost with S60 and ZF AStronic 12 speed, loaded like a rented mule with 46 pax and luggage. The dash display showed 6.5 mpg.
The newer D13 Volvo with Allison B500 in the Prevosts shows about 7 ish.
I get about 7 with my MC5 with 6V92 and Allison HT740.
The new MCI J4500 with Cummins ISX 12 liter / Allison does about the same too.
So they all get about the same.
JC
My Garmin GPS has both a Trip A and Trip B settings for tracking mileage.
I set it to zero when I first picked up the bus. I have never reset Trip B, that's how I know I've covered 32K+ miles in almost three years.
Trip A is reset to zero every time I get fuel, so I know when I'm getting close to the 500 mile mark, which is my fill-up rule.
When I do fill up, I note the Trip B mileage and write it down on the receipt, then reset Trip A.
When I park it for the day, I log into my Gas Buddy dot com account and use their "Fuel Logbook" to track my consumption. So far, for 2017, I'm averaging 6.46 mpg overall. I don't even attempt to break out the genset usage, other than I know it burns .5/g/hr while under load.
My MCI is underpowered with a 6V71, Allison automatic and 4.11:1 rear axle, so I'm sitting on the governor doing 60 mph at 2100 rpm. JC has the same model as I do, but he's got a 6V92T and 3.36:1 axle, and he still gets about the same mileage. Go figure. . .
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
What is your interest in MPG?
For me, it is it to know how much fuel to expect to need for a trip. Since I almost always run the generator, I include that in the fuel used - it doesn't matter what burned it - it must be replaced. . . . . .
I expect 4mpg, so far im getting around 6.5, so I'm happy ;D
I have recorded every gallon of fuel I ever put into my coaches since my first one in 1990 along with the miles, date, cost per gallon, etc.
Initially it was because I needed the documentation for purposes of tracking business expenses, but now it has become a measure of changes and how mileage is influenced. Comparing tank to tank is inaccurate. I have squeezed every last drop into the tanks as a rule and I still have had wild swings in fuel burn from tank to tank. But when I use at least 5000 mile legs or better yet, annual information I have found consistency in the MPG values.
I have had several occasions now where I had to dry camp for extended periods and where the bus mileage had almost no impact on a generator fuel burn calculation because the total mileage from pump to camping area back to the same pump was in few miles (less than 4) I have been able to get an accurate and consistent value for generator fuel burn. The last two coaches have had DDEC so I also have been able to verify the DDEC fuel burn figures. They are extremely accurate and using them I have learned the greatest way to reduce efficiency in driving is speed or headwinds. Driving into steady 10 MPH winds out of the west for a day is the same as driving 10 MPH faster than normal speed in terms of how it affects efficiency. Ditto for tailwinds. Hills are the second greatest impact on mileage.
Towing a 3000 pound car is far better than a 6700 pound truck, but the actual difference is only about .2 MPG.
Knowing my coach and its fuel consumption is beneficial because it is how I plan fuel stops. The gauge is a nice reference, but when I pull up to the pumps I am usually within 5 gallons of guessing how much fuel I will pump in the coach. Other than that keeping the records is just a habit.
Towing a dinghy consumes extra fuel. Is .5 mph about what to expect for an average vehicle? How much does weight matter? I'm trying to decide whether to get a super light vehicle or use of of the current ones.
Times have changed when I read these comments about fuel mileage all I see is the modern 4 stroke engines are pushing a 54,000 #, 45 ft long ,13 ft tall bus , tow vehicle with more HP and torque and doing it on less fuel it's amazing technology .They don't run hot either ;D ;D ;D no fighting the heating issues of the past
I don't know who you are but what have you done with Clifford??? ;D
Dave, I still love my old 2 strokes I always will,now they are getting old and fading away lol I know that feeling ;D.Think about it for a minute RJ says 6+ mpg with a 35 ft x 8 ft wide maybe 32,000# then look at the size of later model buses running 70 mph up hill using less fuel it is amazing to me
Hi All, I have a less than 3000lb toad, a fiat. Every direction to and fro LV is mountains. Right Now my biggest problem with my 8V92 is heat. On the long inclines like baker grade, Cajon and Mt. Pass. When I unhooked the toad and she drove it behind me up baker grade, it didn't overheat, at 10pm and over 100°, lvmci...
Quote from: windtrader on July 29, 2017, 04:52:15 PM
Towing a dinghy consumes extra fuel. Is .5 mph about what to expect for an average vehicle? How much does weight matter? I'm trying to decide whether to get a super light vehicle or use of of the current ones.
Don -As you know, I flat-tow a 2003 VW Jetta Sportwagen, weighing around 3100 lbs. - which is actually less than having 35 passengers on board.
The only time I know it's back there is if I have to jump on the brakes hard because of some idiot 4-wheeler doing something stupid. It probably does slow me down climbing hills some, but I'm going so slow anyway it's a moot point.
I see no significant difference in the fuel mileage between having the car along or going without.
Flat-towing will have less affect on fuel mileage compared to using a dolly or trailer, and yes, a 6,500 lb SUV will make a difference compared to my VW.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: Jon on July 29, 2017, 04:31:04 PM
I have recorded every gallon of fuel I ever put into my coaches since my first one in 1990 along with the miles, date, cost per gallon, etc.
Nice reply Jon, good info. Isn't it amazing, some of these guys who didn't even own a bus last year, are on here all the time now, offering up advice, like they are some kind of new age guru's or something.
Man-man.
Clifford, I have a NEW PHONE NOW so the problem has been solved. I am currently squeezing 13 MPG out of my Detroit, 6.5 on the road, and 6.5 on the driveway.
FWIW
<><><>
Quote from: RJ on July 29, 2017, 09:52:23 PM
Don -
As you know, I flat-tow a 2003 VW Jetta Sportwagen, weighing around 3100 lbs. ...
;)
My car/toad, too. A TDI with 435,000 miles. There have been a few times I was alerted to problems (although it's never left me on the side of the road) by looking at fuel consumption numbers; I have a spread sheet with every gallon I've put in in 14 years. I'm planning to do the same thing with my bus, not so much for monitoring $$$$ but for checking any "phantom" change in fuel use.
Quote from: Jon on July 29, 2017, 04:31:04 PM
Towing a 3000 pound car is far better than a 6700 pound truck, but the actual difference is only about .2 MPG.
That's exactly what I'd expect. You wouldn't believe the number of arguments that have got quite heated when I've shattered people's illusions that lighter weight inside the bus equals fuel economy.
The other thing I've noticed and people really fight me over it is that a few cents here and there makes no difference when buying fuel. If I buy 17 gallons at $1.76 or 17 gallons at $2.05, the difference is just 29 cents or $4.93 on a tank of fuel for my car. That's not even enough to buy a sandwich! It's also barely 20 minutes at work to earn that back.
My bus takes 50 gallons of diesel. That's around $2.30 a gallon. An extra 50 cents makes around $25 of difference but when you're spending $120ish on a fill up, it makes no real difference.
I reckon my bus gets somewhere between 8 and 10 mpg. I can therefore say I can get with confidence 400 miles on a tank.
My work bus does 120 miles a day. It has a 75 gallon tank and is refueled every two days. I've been on fumes getting it back to the yard once or twice but fortunately I don't have to worry. If I run out on a run, I just call in and the fuel truck comes to meet me.
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Quote from: boxcarOkie on July 30, 2017, 02:47:27 AM
Nice reply Jon, good info. Isn't it amazing, some of these guys who didn't even own a bus last year, are on here all the time now, offering up advice, like they are some kind of new age guru's or something.
Man-man.
Clifford, I have a NEW PHONE NOW so the problem has been solved. I am currently squeezing 13 MPG out of my Detroit, 6.5 on the road, and 6.5 on the driveway.
FWIW
Ha! I get more than that leaving home, it is the coming back that kills it. :o
<><><>
Thanks for the report guys. I plan to flat tow the car, about 3k. The bus came all kitted out with everything, towing equipment was really not on the checklist or very low. It has a full blue ox setup and a tow car braking system. There is some panel on the dash to control it and some large actuator you fit into the tow car where applies the brakes. Seems pretty fancy but will study sometime.
fyi - only thing still not understood at all is the Webasto heating system. I'm sure it works, everything else does. Too many switches to wing it, need to read up on it first. lol
Quote from: windtrader on July 30, 2017, 02:26:01 PM
Thanks for the report guys. I plan to flat tow the car, about 3k. The bus came all kitted out with everything, towing equipment was really not on the checklist or very low. It has a full blue ox setup and a tow car braking system. There is some panel on the dash to control it and some large actuator you fit into the tow car where applies the brakes. Seems pretty fancy but will study sometime.
fyi - only thing still not understood at all is the Webasto heating system. I'm sure it works, everything else does. Too many switches to wing it, need to read up on it first. lol
Just don't hit the Ejection Seat Switch. It's seldom marked.
Yeah, I'd probably not know to unlock the brakes and drag it along till the sparks start flying once the rubber is gone. LOL
Good to know mileage difference is minimal but the heat issue is surely one of concern. RJ and others on smaller motors, do you experience higher temps? The rad fans on mine so far keep it running in range, hoping it won't experience overheating due to pulling dinghy.
If all is well in your coolant etc it shouldn't be a problem with 8v71. Mine runs cool 160 to 180 fall and winter in the west and Summer maybe 190 pulling bakers grade at 110 degrees. But I have 2 less cylinders too.
Don F , if you don't have a Webasto manual yet, maybe a Webasto dealer could give you a copy. I got mine from Eskimo Refrigeration in Calgary a few years ago. Is there one on the Webasto web site?
JC
Quote from: lostagain on July 28, 2017, 06:02:54 PM
LOL !
My fuel mileage goes like this: when the gauge gets close to 1/4, or I've gone 500 to 800 miles, I pull in to a gas station and fill it, give lots of money, and be on my way. Nothing else you can do... If I was so concerned about fuel mileage, I would go on a bicycle holiday instead...
JC
It costs me a dollar to go just over 2 miles in my bus. When I ride my bicycle, such as when I rode cross-country some years ago, I was eating 5000 or more calories a day to go about 90 miles or more per day on average, so the food cost per mile isn't much less! Mind you, eating big pizzas and slices of pie is more fun than filling diesel.
John
@JC - Thanks. I'm pretty sure the documentation is all there. I have folders for all the equipment. It is a couple feet tall including the MCI/TMC service manual.
It just takes time to go through the vendor materials, review the bus design notes, diagrams, and tables, then translate that to the actual switches, knobs, displays, etc.
Hoping to keep the bus where you don't need heating or AC. Last month been sent in the CA Delta, right in the location where the wind machine is. Blows everyday and keeps temp very nice while even a few miles away its AC full on.
Alaska may be one of the places where heat may be needed all year long, so even a summer visit may see the Webasto boiling away. :)
Windy did you get the manual for making Tin Foil hats being you have a TMC which were made in Roswell NM. ;D
Dave, How did you know?
After searching and searching and giving up, just figuring out there is no detail delivery list for TMC MC-8 from Roswell as they all went to Greyhound. Wish I had the Tin foil hat for better reception earlier. LOL