What's the best way to remove the front wheels for paint, or really any other reason on a 5303? The jacking plates are in front of the axles, but what's the process you guys use? Run up on ramps, jack from the plates? How do you get the cribbing under the plate while you've got the jack under there?
I'm not familiar with the 5303, but on our bus, I air up the suspension as high as she'll go, put cribbing under the pressure points, then let the air out of the system and simply jack up the axles until the tires are off the ground. That way I'm only working with the weight of the axles and tires. The air does all the lifting.
HTH
Will
Note- by pressure points I'm referring to the chassis, not the axles.
A simple bottle jack under the axel one side at a time would work with the least effort.>>>Dan
Are you painting the wheels or the Bus?
Both. Mostly done with sides front and rear, just the roof is left to paint. Need to get up there, scrub it down, and roll on some antique white up there.
But the wheels make it still look rough, so time to paint them up. Old scratched and scuffed silver on the front, road grime black and rust on the back under the skirts.
Also a good time to look at the brakes and other things underneath while it's blocked up. I'll post pictures of the blocking tomorrow, got the drivers front wheel off.
What are the recommendations on torquing the lug nuts? These were on ridiculous tight, had to use the 62:1 reduction tool to break them loose. Was sopping wet all over just getting the drivers front off. Of course I had to saw up a 10ft 6x6 to make the cribbing too.
Also, how much slack should be in the brakes? What's the adjustment procedure that you'd use?
Time to break out the manual.>>>D The lug nuts should be 450 to 500 pounds foot, thats why you had trouble doing them by hand.
If you don't have a manual remember the right side are right tighty, lefty loosy and the left or driver side is the opposite. Should be marked on the ends L or R
If you have ramps drive it up on the ramps then air up your bags, then block it at the jacking points in a cribbed manner, then jack up your axle and if I was working on it I would also block the axle. Not good to hang it from the airbags.
Dave5Cs
The gmc seems to be right tighty, lefty loosy on all positions. I've pulled the drivers side last night after running up on ramps, airing up the bags, then setting it down on the blocks. The axle is hanging from the shock right now. Bags are still loose, not under pulling tension. Worked carefully to make sure at no point could it come down on me.
The tires were replaced 2 years ago, i suspect the truck tire shop guys just wailed away at the lugs with the 1" impact. Many of the front, thinner lugnuts are deformed. They're the two piece flange nuts, and the fronts lugnuts are half as tall as the rear, so not a lot of surface area for the socket to grab onto. Maybe 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch, compared to an inch and a half nuts on the rear. I'll definitely have to clean them up with the grinder before reusing them.
I'll pull the manual tonight after pulling the passenger wheel for procedures and post what it says. Didn't know if the 4104/4106 crowd knew by heart.
One more of blocking:
Check both sides of your wheels for cracks from being over torqued at the tire shop...happened to two of mine, i bought all new wheels and never let anyone else torque them.
Can you take a close up picture of your rims? Those nuts are for a hub piloted system. Thought those units were older than the onslaught of hub piloted wheel systems? Could be or could be a PO changed them up?
The wheels and the bus are both hub pilot. Thankfully. The wheels were most likely 20 inch split rims when it was new, but yes someone down the line put the 22.5s on it. Hub pilot according to the manual.
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Got the passenger front off, spent time with the wire wheel on the grinder on the drum, and took off the dust cap and resealed it also. I'll try and strip the wheels this evening.
Interesting must be because the studs were changed and now are regular left loosy and righty tighty on all. Thats nice especially when for some unknown reason like Ed said you would have anyone but yourself take them off. ;D
You may have the wrong style of wheel nuts or the wrong rims. Although there was a transition period where the rim/hub manufactures blended the two styles of wheel attachment. This may be the case They did use stud piloted wheel nuts with a hub piloted hub. Not sure on the date of the transition though. But the ones pictured definitely do not belong on together.
I would be looking at swapping those rims out to hub piloted as the holes in your rims are larger than they should be with those nuts. Or installing a new set of wheel nuts to match the ball faced rim.
That bus has hub piloted system from factory. At that time, either system was available. As it being a city bus, those rims are probably a lot thicker metal than on a highway bus.
Here's the answers on torque and adjusting brakes:
Checked front and back for cracks, they're clean. The 243 layers of paint on them was a ton of fun. I tried oven cleaner (which took off the top silver and a few more coats) and paint stripper (took off a few more coats, but left the underlying remaining paint gummy). In the end, i went at them with a needle scaler, and that was definitely the way to go.
I'd like to paint steel wheels too. Thinking about doing in place by masking and blasting old paint off. With clean surface, paint should stick fine. Should I worry about blasting media getting into places that will mess up later?
With drum brakes? I wouldn't think so. No worse than driving on a dusty dirt road.
Yeah, can't get too lazy though. It's not that much to at least get the wheel off the hub and strip and paint wheel.
It's been a good experience for me, tho, to get the wheels off and make sure I have what is need to do so. Ramps, blocking, 20T jacks, etc.
In the blocking picture, I'd be running the blocking the other way.
the axle beam represents the first layer of the crib, the first layer of cribbing should go perpendicular to the axle beam, and then so on.
Cribbing style is to defend against motion and tipping off the pile.
If the coach moved fore and aft in that pic, it will topple fairly early in the motion. Wood in other direction, it would not.
The pursuit of excellence in safety matters keeps us all alive to tell fibs at the next gathering?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The cribbing is supporting the two jacking points in front of the axle beam. The four bolt heads on the plates are embedded into the cribbing, and the rear wheels are thoroughly chocked. I'll adjust the slack in the brakes tomorrow and reinstall the wheels, then onto the rears.
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Or maybe I'll get on top and scrub it down to ready the last section for paint. So much good work to do.
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Got the painted wheels back on, and then touched up the paint on the studs and lugnuts afterwards:
Had an interesting thing happen. I had the bus running at high idle for about 10-15 minutes while i was pulling out the cribbing (requires me to use the airbags to lift the bus off the blocks). After i finished, i turned off high idle, and revved the engine a few times. The first time i went to the governor, it stayed there for a few seconds (maybe 5) after I released the pedal. I didn't reach down and pull the pedal up, it was up from what I could see. After that, it was fine. I wonder if I had some oil pooled in the blower or intake somewhere. Just thinking out loud.
What kind of throttle linkage is between the pedal and the engine?
Cable? Air?
Something sticking, that you want to lubricate, or a spring that is weak that you want to replace.
Rule out the linkage bits before the hairy scary "stuck rack" scenarios play out.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
If it is an air actuated throttle perhaps it was just at that pressure to activate but not quite enough to back off without some lag?
It's an original cable throttle. I'll disconnect it at the engine and see how 'stiff' it is.
I thought I would put my two and a half cents in. First off it is looking good! I have had some experience with with these things. I would probably wait until you have access to an impact wrench it do the rear. They are harder to get to with a socket and bar. An impact with the proper air delivery will make a 10 minute job of it. When I had the tires put on I noticed that the wheels were not all the same part number. They all worked as the differences were very small such as a little different hand hole size or different valve stem placement etc. It might be good to make a note of these different part numbers in case you need a wheel at some point in the future. The type lug nut on the front wheel are easy to mess up when removing a wheel. I always seemed to mess one up every time the wheels came off. I would keep a couple of extras handy. I used to get them and most every thing else I ever needed from Luke at US Coach.
While you have the wheels off you might want to think about new shocks. I think they are pretty old.
I am only responsible for two layers of the paint on the wheels. The other 241 were on it when I got it. If you want to get the wheels blasted call Toby at Blastek 864-266-8841. He is over near me and can do soda or sand. With soda I do not think you need to take the tires off. When you clean and repaint you might need to rebalance them. Also I guess you know not to paint the surfaces that mate to the drums or other wheels.
On another note if you check out Yellow Tag auctions on the web they have a large hydraulic floor jack that you need. The bid on it the other night was $20. Yellow Tag is located on Hwy 221 between Spartanburg and Chesnee.
Good luck and keep at it!
Sorry the jack has already sold. It went for 34.99
I got the fronts off with one of the 62:1 gear reduction units, worked really well. Didn't damage the nuts at all. Once off I figured out to strip the wheels with the needle scaler, which took them to bare metal in about 15 minutes each, after multiple other things tried. Primed painted and reinstalled easily. Also tightened slack adjusters a flat or two per the manual. Rears should be no problem. 20t air assist bottle jack does wonders after it's on the ramps. Still moving forward Charles. Reinstalling wipers tomorrow with stainless hardware and scrubbing roof for last part of painting exterior.
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Always like the manual recommended the wheel turning to check for a drag when adjusting. All said and done the 1/2" to 3/4" slack on the rod was pretty nice at a hair over a quarter turn backed off from tight.
I think i need to get a air jack its definitely going on the list!
have a good day there
Floyd