I've been struggling getting our coach to start lately. It tries to turn over but can't quite do it so all I get is the "attempt". Initially I'm sure it was because the 2awg cable from the positive post in the engine to the starter was broken at the ring terminal. So I took it out and installed a brand new cable yesterday. Clean terminals and everything. I also replaced the battery cables in the battery compartment and cleaned up all the terminals in there. Batteries are 3 year old twin group 31's. Do I just need to bite the bullet and get two AGM 8D's? Is an 8v92 just too much for twin 31's? FYI, it's almost 100 degrees here in Iowa. Vey bottom of post I inserted a video of the engine while attempting to start it. Starter is good, as soon as I put jumper cables on one battery from my truck to the bus, she starts.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170719/a18fa05afeb1e41cc282e1e2f2261eda.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170719/18e1c3079f3f7c6d8b66c81d9f6a4cc5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170719/fc8b592d1a488821f27eab986e82781d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170719/8544b58db24369e6e826d18ea0e338e0.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWQrFVFQtuw
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You could have batteries load tested at any auto store . I use 3 group 31 on my 8v92 . You wanna make sure you have full power or you can lose your starter real fast .
Do you have anything connected to your batteries that shows how much charge it has? It sounds like if you can start it when connecting jumper cables, then one of your batteries isn't holding a charge.
I recently ran one of my starter batteries low and the other one was fully charged. I barely got it to turn. I had 25% charge in one of them and 100% in the other.
Like someone else said, looks like your best bet is to get the batteries checked.
Definitely have your bats checked. One may have dropped a cell. I had 8 D's before I went to the 31's and had to replace one at less than 2 years because it dropped a cell. Then Napa wouldn't honor any kind of warranty because they said they were commercial batteries and they don't warrant commercial bats. On the road and over a barrel. Hopefully it's something simple and easily remedied.
Will
I'm guessing it now has nothing to do with your batteries. Check your starter. When the starter solenoid starts to go bad, it will do that. So next time take a rubber mallet, have your wife push the starter button while you go smack that starter and starter solenoid silly. Most of the time that will do it.
Then I will sell you a rebuilt lightweight 24v starter that you can put in there. I have one on my shelf that I would like to have gone ;D
This is just a reference point but on my 8V92 I had 4 group 31 (Delco 1150) wired for 24V for starting. I don't know your battery location but I do know I had to use lead acid instead of AGM because of the heat in the area adjacent to the engine. Gel and AGM batteries cannot handle the heat as well as the lead acid.
Scott I would definitely load test the batteries and go from there. Where in Iowa? I am sitting in a rest stop in eastern Iowa pointed in a westerly direction at the moment.
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Looks like he has the cheap screw on posts on a stud post battery those are nothing but trouble.If you come this way and I am at home stop and will install you some real cable terminal ends ;D
Batteries both check out at 13.5V. I have chargers for both of them and the digital chargers are telling me that they are fully charged and are float charging right now. I took the advice and had wife press starter while hammering on the starter and solenoid body. No dice. I can guarantee it will start as soon as I jump one of the batteries with my truck. So it's like two group 31's don't have enough oomph. How would I for sure determine if it's my solenoid? The solenoid engages every single time because the engine attempts to turn over but it can't quite make the revolution.
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Cliff, those posts are built into the batteries. They won't come out
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where cable clamps on battery post end. Clean them they are notorious for corrosion. makes sense if when you hook up jumpers you are completing a weak connection.
I Excuse me for saying this Scott,but you didn't get any cables misdirected did you? From what little I know ,and that is very little,the starter is 24v .If the bus starts when you jump it it kind of makes me think U R loosing your 24V and it is trying to start on 12V.
Voltage and chargers happy doesn't help in this situation.
You don't know if there is any muscle behind that voltage.
My money is on a bum battery.
Get one of those old fashioned testers to give you an idea.
https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-BT-100-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000AMBOI0/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1500510101&sr=8-8&keywords=battery+tester (https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-BT-100-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000AMBOI0/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1500510101&sr=8-8&keywords=battery+tester)
$20.68
Minimize your starting attempts until a solution is found, as noted, this is WAY hard on the starter.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
A simple multi tester on the out put will tell a bunch. Put the multi tester on the output cables and try the starter and see what it drops the voltage to.
HTH
Melbo
Ok I can put a multi meter on it tomorrow. Thanks for the tips here. There isn't a smudge of corrosion anywhere. New cables, wire brushed stud terminals until they gleamed. Checked and triple checked all connections in battery box and at starter. Something else is amiss.
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Jump across the 2 large terminals on the solenoid and see if the starter spends freely and fast without a load,if not you may need to buy the starter from John 316.
You need to load test the batteries first as Derrick stated 13+ volts mean nothing when testing a battery. If you don't have a load tester AutoZone or O'Rileys will let you barrow one for free after you leave your first born for a deposit
I had a similar issue. Ended up being a bad ground on the frame for one of the batteries. Looked perfect - until I took it apart & then I saw the hidden rust. I burned up 2 starters before I found the issue. It seemed random when the starter would drag/ not work.
BTW, the solenoid can pull in, but if the contacts are corroded, that corrosion will act as a resistor. . . .
I haven't done it in a long time, but you used to be able to take the solenoid apart to rotate the contacts to fresh . . . . cheap rebuild.
Sure seems like batteries have lost cranking amps. You may see full volts but battery is not able to generate the amps needed to start the motor.
The batteries in the coach I just bought were pretty new and showed full voltage but did not crank the motor all the time. Got them checked at the store and they show very low CCA; I think around 300 instead of 1100. The engine starter/solenoid would click and sometimes try to kick it. With two new group 31, it is almost scary how fast it kicks over. Barely touch the button and whoosh it is going. Huge difference. Since it starts with a boost from a different battery, it is almost surely a battery issue.
Don
I have 4 group 31 batteries on my cat and it takes all of that to start the big beast and this is at 12 volts
dave
Years ago I had my 8-92 load tested at Prevost Mira Loma. They said the inrush current when starting was 1000+ amps. That's a lot of power to draw out of two little group 31s. My money is on just not enough lead. Weight counts - particularly when the engine is hot.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on July 20, 2017, 06:12:51 AM
Years ago I had my 8-92 load tested at Prevost Mira Loma. They said the inrush current when starting was 1000+ amps. That's a lot of power to draw out of two little group 31s. My money is on just not enough lead. Weight counts - particularly when the engine is hot.
Yep starter rebuilding outfits love the people using 2 group 31 for starting with the MT 42 or MT 50 on a Detroit 12 or 24V that is a 10 hp DC motor.
If you are going to use the 2 group 31's at least buy the 39MT reduction starter it will save you some grief IMO you left turning people don't have much choice so use enough batteries
I'm far from an expert but since it starts right up when it's getting jumped mean there's something wrong with the batteries?
A major reason going with two Group 31 (24v) on the 8v71 was the remark that the motor needs less start amp if the AC compressor is removed. The way it starts with the 31 indicates zero lack of cranking amps. Firing up now is like pulling a trigger - boom and it's running in 1/2 a second.
Quote from: windtrader on July 20, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
A major reason going with two Group 31 (24v) on the 8v71 was the remark that the motor needs less start amp if the AC compressor is removed. The way it starts with the 31 indicates zero lack of cranking amps. Firing up now is like pulling a trigger - boom and it's running in 1/2 a second.
You are in a warm area too try starting one without a pre heat of some type in 30 degree weather with 2 group 31 batteries Coachnet will be on the way,do you a test cut the fuel off and spin the engine and see how long the 31's will last ::)
I'm guessing that you don't have a way to temporarily connect your house batteries to the start batteries? If you can do so, the start batteries' Reserve Capacity becomes less critical because you can supplement it with all the amp/hours of your house bank. I use a pair of Blue Sea 9001 and 9002 switches to send house power on some 4/0 cables directly to the starter - my two Group 31s can then have about the same RC as two 8Ds.
You mention that your old cables were 2AWG. Even for a 24V starter, is that enough? I like to use the fattest cables I can to minimize voltage drop under load. It's good to have some closed-end tinned copper lugs circumferentially crimped on, along with some good heatshrink, and if the cables look iffy just replace them; 4/0 is less than $4 a foot.
John
Regardless of the systemic improvements that can be recommended, the fact is that the bus has started fine before and now it does not. The first step is to load test the batteries, if they are great then it's on to the starter. As Clifford said, the big auto parts chains will either loan you a load tester or do it for you. The batteries do not even have be removed. You could also use a hydrometer to test the cells looking for a bad one-- bad cell bad battery, but even if all the cells check out, it is the load test that is definitive.
I tried the Group 31s on my 8V92 and they just wouldn't cut it. They were new.
Back to the 2 8Ds, no problems.
I quit buying the Sams/Walmart 8Ds and use NAPA now. They last a lot longer.
The jumper to me is a dead give-away that the batteries don't have enough oomph.
Thank you so much for the great info guys. I haven't load tested the batts yet so I'll get a tester or just take them in. I'm hoping I haven't trashed my starter. It starts every single time when I jump it so I'm feeling like the starter is ok for now (famous last words I know). I am going to have the batts load tested and then go from there. Likely I need 8D's. I always thought two group 31's wasn't enough. I don't have a house battery bank yet so jumping those in isn't an option :(
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I had a lot of trouble with 12v 8v71. The PO installed two new 8D with all new cables including grounds but it cranked very slow. Turns out the
starter brush holders were tilted due to overheating. With new brush holders and brushes it cranked ok. Then I converted it to 24v.
Now I giggle every time I hit the starter.
-Tom P.
Makes no difference to a Detroit what is used for starting hydraulic,air,12v or 24v all they need is the 60 rpm per Detroit and it comes to life in warm weather and if you have enough batteries they will in cold weather too
@luvrbus - Thanks. It does have a block heater as well as the house bank can link to the starts. The generator can run as well providing extra amps if needed. Since the 31's are in, that's how she rolls for now. I'll cross my fingers the bay heaters and block heater are enough to turn her over if it gets cold.
I replaced all my battery cabling with tinned copper marine boat cable. Was about $7 per foot.
Welding cable is not a good idea - the insulation isn't oil & fuel resistant.
I bought a hydraulic crimper and the good ends. I also used dielectric grease and the adhesive heat shrink. No issues with starting now. ;D
Now that I have the supplies, I was able to fix the cable issues dad had on his motor home. And a few others . . . .
Quote from: windtrader on July 20, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
A major reason going with two Group 31 (24v) on the 8v71 was the remark that the motor needs less start amp if the AC compressor is removed.
I guess I didn't see that remark in previous responses, and don't care to go back and look for it, but regardless, it's total crap. The AC compressor adds zero load on an engine during startup because the clutch is not engaged so the compressor is not turning.
It's good to know others think like me sometimes Craig.
I too have seen that remark and knew they were repeating something they heard with no real understanding of how things work.
Most of the time I find myself just scrolling on.
I too, know that apparently some of the later Eagles with the 6V92s used Group 31s with apparently OK results.
I just know my 8V92 didn't like them.
Joe,Eagle used 3 group 31's in there configure with their 12 v system starting with the 10's and in cold weather they used 4,great thing about a Eagle the batteries where close to the engine not 30 ft away like my MCI
Since switching to 2 group 31's I've not had a problem starting. It happens so fast I barely see the crank turn before it's running- even down below 30°, which is what it seems to be in these altitudes even now in the mornings. I do plug in the preheat for an hour or so and that is probably making all the difference. I know I ain't going back to replacing 200 pounder's anymore. I just had terrible luck with the 8D's.
Will
Prevost has been using 4 group 31's for years now our 97 had 4 group 31's
Quote from: luvrbus on July 21, 2017, 11:01:01 AM
Joe,Eagle used 3 group 31's in there configure with their 12 v system starting with the 10's and in cold weather they used 4,great thing about a Eagle the batteries where close to the engine not 30 ft away like my MCI
My 1975 05 Eagle has two 8D's, and always starts with an instant bang. My 1982 Model 10 has three 31's, and my 1984 Model 10 has one 8D (both 6V92's). They all start in warm weather, but two 8D's is still the best for cooler weather. The model 10's only have one battery compartment, so it's three 31's or one 8D. Wrestling a 8D in by yourself gets more challenging as you get older. It really seems that the 8V92 needs three or four 31's.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on July 19, 2017, 03:17:49 PM
Cliff, those posts are built into the batteries. They won't come out
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he's talking about the barely adequate for a lawn mower cable ends with the wimpy little 1/4 bolts and crappy integral nuts.... you aren't getting contact needed...
My monies on the Solenoid.
I agree about the cable ends, terminal ends, what ever. That's the first thing I'd fix. And about those hammer crimpers. They work good if you know what too much and what too little is.
these...(in the right size) are way mo betta ;D
as are crimps..hammered or die. ;D
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Ffc8AAOSwEK9W%7EtBA%2Fs-l600.jpg&hash=97ef6761b3ab5c0e7c0dfe7edc555d1a8a00a180)
Joe,Eagle used 3 group 31's in there configure with their 12 v system starting with the 10's and in cold weather they used 4.
Clifford, I hooked the 3 new Group 31s up correctly. They just didn't do the job for me. They wouldn't start the coach reliably in the summer. I removed them after the first trip and installed new 8Ds. Problem solved!
I've had the coach over 21 years and experience has taught me the 2 8Ds are the best for me. Others may have a different experience.
I think the original poster should approach this in a logical sequence.
Check the condition of the battery connections
Check the condition of the batteries
check the solenoids
check the starter
Some of us are quick to jump to expensive conclusions. Me too! I have to remind myself constantly to employ the KISS principles. That's usually the best way.
Me to Joe I have always hung with the 2-8Ds ,all the years I owned the Eagle with the 8v92 not 1 time did I ever replace the starter.Some replace the starters as often as changing their socks.Have you noticed how heavy the 8-Ds made today are, it may be the age thing making the 8-D's just seem heavier :o :o :o :o
Everything seems heavier to me!
These NAPA batteries seem heavier than the Sams.
They assured me they are new, not remanufactured like the others. They came with a two year warranty and have been in three years.
The Sams had to be replaced every year when the warranty ran out.
Just like the filters, if you watch the sales they aren't so expensive.
In 21 years, the only time I had to replace a starter was after a power washing. Possibly, if I had just let it dry out good, it might have started. I had an extra, so I just changed it.
Quote from: luvrbus on July 21, 2017, 06:58:45 PM
Prevost has been using 4 group 31's for years now our 97 had 4 group 31's
Yep !!! Mine too!!! And if the voltage drops 1 volt there is a lady that hangs out some where in my bus that keeps saying "low vehicle battery voltage" LOL
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 22, 2017, 09:16:08 AM
these...(in the right size) are way mo betta ;D
as are crimps..hammered or die. ;D
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Ffc8AAOSwEK9W%7EtBA%2Fs-l600.jpg&hash=97ef6761b3ab5c0e7c0dfe7edc555d1a8a00a180)
For my money these are the only cable ends allowed to be used in my shop. They come in a wide variety of end styles and provide a positive contact without overheating the cooper strands during soldering. They are also beefy enough not to become loose from multiple heat cycles like the thinner crimp style ends. Starting in colder weather produces lots of heat in the cables on extended cranking sessions.
My vote for your starting problems is all in your connections.
*If you have poor connections your batteries will not charge properly to recover from a start voltage drop while driving/charging
*If you have poor connections it may be covered up by jump starting with booster cables (higher amperage supply temporarily heats the connections to make contact giving a false indication)
*Poor ground connections are one of the most difficult things to find - just remove the ground connections and clean them ... period.
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 22, 2017, 09:16:08 AMthese...(in the right size) are way mo betta ;D
as are crimps..hammered or die. ;D
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2Ffc8AAOSwEK9W%7EtBA%2Fs-l600.jpg&hash=97ef6761b3ab5c0e7c0dfe7edc555d1a8a00a180)
What is the name of the manufacturer of these terminals? I see "Fair Lawn, NJ" at the bottom but that's about all that's visible. It seems that every terminal manufacturer (or importer) has a terminal BT-36B. Many thanks, Bruce H
Quote from: Jim Eh. on July 23, 2017, 08:33:59 AM
*Poor ground connections are one of the most difficult things to find - just remove the ground connections and clean them ... period.
If I may add - Just because the first 3 ground studs you found were welded to the frame - it doesn't mean the 4th one was. . . . .That one cost me a starter !
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 23, 2017, 01:26:08 PM
What is the name of the manufacturer of these terminals? I see "Fair Lawn, NJ" at the bottom but that's about all that's visible. It seems that every terminal manufacturer (or importer) has a terminal BT-36B. Many thanks, Bruce H
I FORGET...i BUY them from a DEKA wholesaler in Ft Myers, FL. let mr get back to you :) soon :)
i think they are proprietary..in that if you order enuff of them...u can put your name on them... Lawson doesn't make anything...but,they sell a lot of things.
https://www.lawsonproducts.com/Battery-Terminals-Lugs-Connectors/Fleet-Automotive/Electrical/EL450200.lpc (https://www.lawsonproducts.com/Battery-Terminals-Lugs-Connectors/Fleet-Automotive/Electrical/EL450200.lpc)
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 23, 2017, 01:46:28 PMI FORGET...i BUY them from a DEKA wholesaler in Ft Myers, FL. let mr get back to you :) soon :) ...
Duhh!! Shoulda tried DEKA first. Thanks, Don. My inverter supplier says that 4/0 cable is the minimum size necessary for my battery connections, but othing that shows up on the Google search is 4/0. Have you seen/used 4/0 versions of these? (I'm gong to guess they're e$$$traordinarily spendy!)
Since I was relocating my house & start batteries, I needed to make new cables, I used the following stuff to do the job.
Adhesive lined heat shrink tubing,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-18-5-Hydraulic-Wire-Terminal-Crimping-Crimper-Tool-Pliers-Kit-w-11-Dies-/391827904759?hash=item5b3ac358f7:g:rfQAAOSwfpVZLTVo (http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-18-5-Hydraulic-Wire-Terminal-Crimping-Crimper-Tool-Pliers-Kit-w-11-Dies-/391827904759?hash=item5b3ac358f7:g:rfQAAOSwfpVZLTVo)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marine-Battery-Cable-Terminals-Tin-Plated-Heavy-Duty-FTZ-Power-Lugs-/171875197868?var=&hash=item28048f63ac (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marine-Battery-Cable-Terminals-Tin-Plated-Heavy-Duty-FTZ-Power-Lugs-/171875197868?var=&hash=item28048f63ac)
http://www.iboats.com/Ancor-Black-4-0-AWG-Battery-Cable-Sold-by-the-Foot/dm/cart_id.060994801--session_id.065451947--view_id.1437484 (http://www.iboats.com/Ancor-Black-4-0-AWG-Battery-Cable-Sold-by-the-Foot/dm/cart_id.060994801--session_id.065451947--view_id.1437484)
BTW, All of the factory crimped connections were still perfect after 30 years. ;D
Some of the the cables I replaced were the less than satisfactory results of a previous repair (hack job) - which is why I decided to relocate the batteries.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 23, 2017, 02:04:09 PM
Duhh!! Shoulda tried DEKA first. Thanks, Don. My inverter supplier says that 4/0 cable is the minimum size necessary for my battery connections, but othing that shows up on the Google search is 4/0. Have you seen/used 4/0 versions of these? (I'm gong to guess they're e$$$traordinarily spendy!)
Here's what I did for my 4/0 cables. They've been working great for 14 years now. Absolutely no problems. I buffed the ends last year when I replaced my batteries.
http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Electrical/Batteries/batteries.htm (http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Electrical/Batteries/batteries.htm)
Yep me too Craig. Thanks got that off your site. Has worked for 6 years no problems either. ;D
You can buy the compression nut type battery terminals from Del City I keep a few around for repairs but don't really care for that type and they are expensive 12 or 14 bucks for 4/0 the last time I purchased
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 23, 2017, 02:15:35 PM...I used the following stuff to do the job.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-18-5-Hydraulic-Wire-Terminal-Crimping-Crimper-Tool-Pliers-Kit-w-11-Dies-/391827904759?hash=item5b3ac358f7:g:rfQAAOSwfpVZLTVo (http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-18-5-Hydraulic-Wire-Terminal-Crimping-Crimper-Tool-Pliers-Kit-w-11-Dies-/391827904759?hash=item5b3ac358f7:g:rfQAAOSwfpVZLTVo) ...
Wow, Kyle!! I was expecting $300, not $33! I'm gonna guess that this unit wouldn't live very lond in a shop doing 12 crimps a day, but for what an average bus owner needs, it looks like a great buy. Thanks for that info.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 23, 2017, 01:26:08 PM
What is the name of the manufacturer of these terminals? I see "Fair Lawn, NJ" at the bottom but that's about all that's visible. It seems that every terminal manufacturer (or importer) has a terminal BT-36B. Many thanks, Bruce H
Up here I get them from Pico
https://picocanada.com/en/view_product/705 (https://picocanada.com/en/view_product/705)
They are even listed on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Battery-Compression-Terminal-Positive/dp/B00X362H7W (https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Battery-Compression-Terminal-Positive/dp/B00X362H7W)
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 23, 2017, 05:16:52 PM
Wow, Kyle!! I was expecting $300, not $33! I'm gonna guess that this unit wouldn't live very lond in a shop doing 12 crimps a day, but for what an average bus owner needs, it looks like a great buy. Thanks for that info.
It is a very stout crimper, I believe it will keep up with a $300 unit. I have made over 100 crimps with it & the last was the same as the first.
I cut a crimped fitting apart. The stranded wire was so tightly squeezed together that it was solid, the individual strands of the 4/0 wire were stuck together. I was satisfied that was good enough. ;D
I also use dielectric grease in the connection to help ensure moisture stays out. 8)
We do ours the old fashion way, soft copper tubing over the given wire size (snug fit) push wire all the way into about a 2" piece of tube. Flatten half of the tube end then cut desired hole size into the flattened area.. Solder the wire into the tube or not, works just as well either way without heat generation or current loss. Real cheap, very effective. Dinosaur methodology. Kind of like antique vintage....
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 23, 2017, 02:04:09 PM
Duhh!! Shoulda tried DEKA first. Thanks, Don. My inverter supplier says that 4/0 cable is the minimum size necessary for my battery connections, but nothing that shows up on the Google search is 4/0. Have you seen/used 4/0 versions of these? (I'm gong to guess they're e$$$traordinarily spendy!)
i bought a box of them a few years ago...i don't remember having heart failure.
having said that i know Lawson has 3/0... and i don't think snipping a few strands off of 4/0 hurts anything if one considers that the lug is pretty much (theoretically) a portion of the cross sectional area when compressed...
Quote from: gumpy on July 23, 2017, 03:07:49 PM
Here's what I did for my 4/0 cables. They've been working great for 14 years now. Absolutely no problems. I buffed the ends last year when I replaced my batteries.
http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Electrical/Batteries/batteries.htm (http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Electrical/Batteries/batteries.htm)
you probably know then that:
a.wire needs to be clean
b.not oxidized
b1. baking soda won't help
c.proper solder type
d.proper flux type
e.most people think they can solder properly
f.most can't
Back to the original programing where is Scott has he solved the problem or not ::)
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 23, 2017, 08:47:51 PMyou probably know then that: ...
e.most people think they can solder properly
f.most can't
Exactly. This is a soldering job that's critical and difficult. If the terminal and copper conducting strands in the cable get too hot, they're damaged and oxidized. Also, the common mistake of getting too much solder in the joint makes a "solid plug" of strands and solder outside the terminal barrel that's rigid -- and that plug is attached to the cable strands which are flexible. Wanna guess what happens at the point where the flexible part meets the rigid part???
Fusion terminals take that part away,I use a lot of fusion type with a good heat shrink with the sealant I think it is some kind of silicone inside the tube it is not cheap to buy either.When soldering a terminal on which I don't do much I use a jewelers paste on the cables to keep the solder from wicking
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 23, 2017, 08:42:07 PM
.. and i don't think snipping a few strands off of 4/0 hurts anything if one considers that the lug is pretty much (theoretically) a portion of the cross sectional area when compressed...
I wouldn't snip a few strands unless I was stuck somewhere & that was the only option to get home - where I would fix it.
I damn sure wouldn't short cut any repair I am doing at home! (Well, not on purpose anyways . . . .)
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 24, 2017, 07:02:20 PM
I wouldn't snip a few strands unless I was stuck somewhere & that was the only option to get home - where I would fix it.
I damn sure wouldn't short cut any repair I am doing at home! (Well, not on purpose anyways . . . .)
a few is 2 or 3... not 16 or 20.......
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 25, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
a few is 2 or 3... not 16 or 20.......
I always thought 2-3 were a "couple of," and "a few" was just more than a "couple" with no determinate amount but less than a sh-t load.
--Geoff
Hi...not yet. I have been in South Dakota giving concerts so I've been away from the coach. Been crazy. I have to get the batteries tested. I know those clamps look cheap but that's what came with the coach and for two years has been starting it just fine until literally a few months agp
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Quote from: eagle19952 on July 25, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
a few is 2 or 3... not 16 or 20.......
It sounded like you were going to snip enough off of a 4/0 to make it a 3/0 at the end so it would fit into a 3/0 connector. . . .
Seen solenoids on ebay for 20-30 bucks recently ;)
I understand that there are better ways to terminate cables than the readily available, cheap connectors, but is there any data on what the difference in resistance is between them and the premium methods? It would seem that if they are really bad the resistance and voltage drop would be measurable.
Scott:Most Electric Supply Store's will have 4/0 connectors ,but if the cable is like welding cable you either drop a size or go up a size .Non the less 3/0 ,4/0 AND 250.MCM ARE ALL common sizes ,plus most good electrical houses will rent you a hydraulic crimp tool which will put so much pressure on the crimp ,it will look like the whole thing is fused together. I am partial to the Thomas and Betts lugs but there are several good lines out there .This is assuming you have the studded batteries
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 25, 2017, 06:10:11 PM
It sounded like you were going to snip enough off of a 4/0 to make it a 3/0 at the end so it would fit into a 3/0 connector. . . .
if it took that many that would be a roadside cobble....which would necessitate a shop redo...hopefully there would be an extra inch...
i hate it when they under length a cable/wire as much as under size....GM started that in the mid 70's... ::)