Is it a problem in a bus conversion to put 275/80R22.5 tires (Michelin XZA3 Low Profile) with a Max Load of 7,160 on the the drive axle and keep the 12R22.5 Steer and Tag tires the same? My drive axle tires need replacing and I found a really nice used set of 4 Michelins locally. So 4 of them with matching tread depths would be on the drive axle. I know it will affect my RPMs a little bit, but is it safe?
If I had more money, I'd splurge the 4k for new tires all around, but this might have to do for now...
Just found this note in the MC-9 Manual. So it seems that Low Profile tires were used by some.
The Michelin book says 501 - 518 rev/mile difference. That's about 3% slower (or 2 Miles/hour) for the low profile. Unless you're critical on your gearing and engine revs now, that should be OK.
Quote from: GnarlyBus on July 06, 2017, 02:28:36 PM
My drive axle tires need replacing and I found a really nice used set of 4 Michelins locally. So 4 of them with matching tread depths would be on the drive axle.
Same tread depths? but what is the date codes( how old are they) It will say DOT and then the week of the year and the year.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on July 06, 2017, 04:01:28 PM
Same tread depths? but what is the date codes( how old are they) It will say DOT and then the week of the year and the year.
It looks like they're from 04/10.
I see a wide variety of tyres used on the work busses. The Dayton hubs had metric, imperial and a whole lot of different metric sizes. Certainly a different size might mean a different speed but that's a non issue.
My bus has 10R22.5 on the front, 11R22.5 on the back and was built originally for 9R20F. Somebody change to Dayton hubs. I have no idea how accurate the speedo is. I know somebody put another speedo on the drive shaft. It was so badly connected with dangling wires that I cut the wires off and installed a GPS speedo until I can figure out if the original Allinson speedo still works.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Those IMHO are dated out. Tires rot from the inside and 7 years or before is time to change them. :D
Quote from: Dave5Cs on July 07, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Those IMHO are dated out. Tires rot from the inside and 7 years or before is time to change them. :D
Agreed though I mentioned a date code on a bus tyre at work, which was 10 years old and he was alarmed. Then he asked if it was front or rear. I told him rear and he said it was nothing to worry about and that it'd probably never be retreaded again.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: Dave5Cs on July 07, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Those IMHO are dated out. Tires rot from the inside and 7 years or before is time to change them. :D
They're replacing tires just over 10 years old! I'm seeing 10 years max online but 7 is probably a better number. I'll look for newer when I do the steer tires.
Quote from: GnarlyBus on July 08, 2017, 12:57:10 AM
They're replacing tires just over 10 years old! I'm seeing 10 years max online but 7 is probably a better number. I'll look for newer when I do the steer tires.
Steers... brand new only, too important.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yah, that's what people say. I guess their replacing them every trip? After one trip or 4 years, they aren't brand new. Surely replacing what I have would at least be a step in the right direction in terms of safety. I'll see if I can get them new. I'm not going to use re-treads, but maybe I can find some that are a year or two old. $500 a tire is quite a big price for a bus that sees maybe 2k miles a year. Maybe if you guys see an MC9 with Blue and Red Stripes, just stay a safe distance away. :)
Which brings me to a short observation (not directed at you Zephod), I'm noticing often on forums there seems to be a group of people for whom money is not an issue. They can't seem to understand why others problems are problems when they could be solved with a $5k set of new tires or a trip the DD Dealer every Spring and Fall. They might say that if you don't have $30k in that bank for a breakdown or a barn full of spare buses, you shouldn't be in the busnut game. I've come a long way in the last few years and have ardently read these forums and studied the MC9 and 6v92 Manual like they're Bibles. I appreciate the wisdom of everyone on this forum, except that one guy the other week who wanted...nevermind. :)
Not trying to start anything, just speaking my mind. I do appreciate this forum a lot.
Not me either. I have 6 tires compared to your 8 so it is $1,100.00 less. I saved up and didn't put the bus on the road until I could afford safe tires. Only reason I got new was couldn't find any old ones that were any good or wrong size etc. Not a rich man either. Was only letting you know what you were looking at because you did not say anything about the dates, you only mentioned the tire tread which is good but not as important.
Yes you could get away with tire that are 10 years old on the rears but not as safe as 7. But I agree not on the steers. If you have a zipper rip they go down immediately and caused a lot of damage to a bus if you happen to be on the freeway going 60 to 70 MPH as well as tire fires, wipe out airbags, brake lines etc.
So nothing more than for your information. Do with it what you want.....
Quote from: GnarlyBus on July 08, 2017, 05:23:59 PM
Yah, that's what people say. I guess their replacing them every trip? After one trip or 4 years, they aren't brand new. Surely replacing what I have would at least be a step in the right direction in terms of safety. I'll see if I can get them new. I'm not going to use re-treads, but maybe I can find some that are a year or two old. $500 a tire is quite a big price for a bus that sees maybe 2k miles a year. Maybe if you guys see an MC9 with Blue and Red Stripes, just stay a safe distance away. :)
Which brings me to a short observation (not directed at you Zephod), I'm noticing often on forums there seems to be a group of people for whom money is not an issue. They can't seem to understand why others problems are problems when they could be solved with a $5k set of new tires or a trip the DD Dealer every Spring and Fall. They might say that if you don't have $30k in that bank for a breakdown or a barn full of spare buses, you shouldn't be in the busnut game. I've come a long way in the last few years and have ardently read these forums and studied the MC9 and 6v92 Manual like they're Bibles. I appreciate the wisdom of everyone on this forum, except that one guy the other week who wanted...nevermind. :)
Not trying to start anything, just speaking my mind. I do appreciate this forum a lot.
I tend to agree. I've noticed that. People telling me I should have $2,000 worth of solar panels, $3,000 worth of batteries, a professional paint job and pay people to do this, that and the other.
Some brag to say they spent $60,000 on their conversion and get very pissy when I suggest a used motorhome would have been better value.
I priced new tyres for my motorhome. They come in at about $200 each as the lowest cost. The highest is about $500 each. Given that we don't do that many miles, cheap tyres are better value because they're not even going to have 10k usage before they're changed out at 7 years old.
Mind, the question also is whether we will still own our motorhome in 2,3,4,5,6,7... years.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Money is always an issue with me, whether I have it or not. ;D And even when I do, I like a deal. IE- Refried beans on sale 2 for a dollar. There goes a hundred bucks-thank Goodness for large bays. See how owning a bus can save you money ;D PFFFT Whoops, sorry....
Quote from: PP on July 08, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
Money is always an issue with me, whether I have it or not. ;D And even when I do, I like a deal. IE- Refried beans on sale 2 for a dollar. There goes a hundred bucks-thank Goodness for large bays. See how owning a bus can save you money ;D PFFFT Whoops, sorry....
Have you considered converting your bus to run off methane :p
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Keep looking for take offs. At work the tire reps always seems to have deals on this or that. Sometimes it new tractors delivered with tires the buyer didn't spec, etc. You might a;so want to look at Hankook 12AHs, I use them on my 4106 and I'm happy with them. We have owner operators with 2016 Volvos with 156" ARI sleepers using Hankooks. It's a good, inexpensive tire.
If you are member of FMCA you can get deals on new Continental Tires
Thanks for the leads guys! I've heard about the FMCA deals. Maybe I'll look into them again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
275/80R-22.5 is an 517rpm tire. 12R-22.5 is an 485rpm tire. You'll loose about an inch of ground clearance. And if you typically have 3.70 rear end ratio, then the 12R-22.5 will give you 1795rpm at 60mph. The 275/80R-22.5 will give you 1913rpm at 60mph.
I would look for 11R-22.5 take off's with around 50% tread left for drivers. That will give you a 500rpm tire or 1850rpm at 60mph. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on July 09, 2017, 03:31:50 PM275/80R-22.5 is an 517rpm tire. 12R-22.5 is an 485rpm tire. You'll loose about an inch of ground clearance. And if you typically have 3.70 rear end ratio, then the 12R-22.5 will give you 1795rpm at 60mph. The 275/80R-22.5 will give you 1913rpm at 60mph.
I would look for 11R-22.5 take off's with around 50% tread left for drivers. That will give you a 500rpm tire or 1850rpm at 60mph. Good Luck, TomC
You sound knowledgeable. I have a bus that had originally 9R20F wheels. I'm not sure of the circumference of a 9R20F. Somebody changed the wheels to Dayton hubs. I'm not sure they changed the speed sensor in the transmission because there was an additional speed sensor on the prop shaft. Since that additional sensor is not working, I'm wondering what metric 22.5 would be equivalent to the 9R20F.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
7 year old tires aren't worth much more than the cost of mounting them.
The biggest problem is you don't KNOW the history of them. Overloaded? Run with low air pressure? Ever been flat with a load on it?
I have had tire failures at speed on the road. I DO NOT want another one ! ! ! !
In my opinion, Take offs are a much better option - especially if you have time to wait . . .
Quote from: Zephod on July 09, 2017, 05:12:23 PM
You sound knowledgeable. I have a bus that had originally 9R20F wheels. I'm not sure of the circumference of a 9R20F. Somebody changed the wheels to Dayton hubs. I'm not sure they changed the speed sensor in the transmission because there was an additional speed sensor on the prop shaft. Since that additional sensor is not working, I'm wondering what metric 22.5 would be equivalent to the 9R20F.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The 275/80x22.5 is the metric equal to a 900x20.I just went through this on my firetruck the bias is 41in in diameter and 506 revs per mile,the steel radials were 40in in diameter with 519 rev per mile.
I went with the steel radials only because they were tubeless and would work on my Dayton wheels with the lock ring (Double Coin Brand).For 6 it was $1245.00 out the door at RedBird Tire in Phoenix.
Since it is hardly ever driven I didn't want to spend $3000.00 + on a name brand set of tires,fwiw the 900x20 is a very popular tire size for military vehicles but not so much in the private world
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 09, 2017, 08:16:01 PM
7 year old tires aren't worth much more than the cost of mounting them.
The biggest problem is you don't KNOW the history of them. Overloaded? Run with low air pressure? Ever been flat with a load on it?
I have had tire failures at speed on the road. I DO NOT want another one ! ! ! !
In my opinion, Take offs are a much better option - especially if you have time to wait . . .
I've been under the impression that tires should be replaced at 7yrs just to be safe.
Michelin warranties there bus and truck tires for 7 years some up to 10 years with up to 3 recaps in 700,000 miles I don't think it all about safety more like selling you more tires JMO
Quote from: luvrbus on July 10, 2017, 09:43:24 AM
Michelin warranties there bus and truck tires for 7 years some up to 10 years with up to 3 recaps in 700,000 miles I don't think it all about safety more like selling you more tires JMO
Yes, there is more concern about sales than safety. It's sort of like the mattress companies that now say you should replace your mattress at eight years. I have had tires and mattresses that were older than ten years in the same vehicle. :o
Quote from: Branderson on July 10, 2017, 09:27:55 AM
I've been under the impression that tires should be replaced at 7yrs just to be safe.
For the steer axle, I'm not comfortable past 5 years.
For the drives, I would go 7 & the tag, a little more.
However, this is
MY comfort level based on personal experience and the advice from friends in the heavy hauling business.
Your opinion is likely to be different, at least make it a well informed one. ;D ;)
Nothing is going to change since this comes up every 6 months people are going to run what they can afford some believe in Michelin's golden rule some don't that is the way we are.
LOL heck I even use never seize on my lug nuts.
Walter makes a good point about mattresses and tires we have a Duxiana mattress no way will I be buying one of those every 8 years in spite of all the mattress sale pitches.Point is you make the call what is best for you not a tire manufacture.
They don't make billions of dollars being concern about you they sell tires or they could build a tire that would last.
You don't see the military popping for tires every 7 years my Hummvee is 1991 model and still has the original tires goes to show you they can build a better tire
For the 8 new drive tires on my bus, I deviated from Michelin and bought Hankook. I figure that Freightliner has them as a standard tire offering, they can't be that bad. Plus almost $2,000 cheaper. The tires that were on the truck were 19 years old (truck has sat). Because I used Never Seize on all inner and outer wheel nuts, none locked up-all 80 came off and on without problem. Good Luck, TomC
I'm sorry but the mattress analogy doesn't hold water for me. What exactly is the risk of using an old mattress.......
Anyway, everyone has an opinion on tires including me...I'm just going off of my uncle who changes all tires every 7yrs no matter what and he has been a full timer and drove trucks before that.
Any of you guys old enough to remember when a tire was warrantied for the life of the tread dates had nothing to do with if the tire blew they measured the tread deducted a amount and gave you a new tire no matter how old the tire was
Quote from: luvrbus on July 11, 2017, 07:23:46 AM
Any of you guys old enough to remember when a tire was warrantied for the life of the tread dates had nothing to do with if the tire blew they measured the tread deducted a amount and gave you a new tire no matter how old the tire was
I sure am, and I remember cotton cord plies that could go 100 miles an hour in the fifties, of course they were kind of lumpy afterwards. The point of all these time limits (for tires or mattresses) is to stir up sales by scaring people that something bad will happen to them if they don't pony up and spend some bucks. Even young tires can blow suddenly. As far as mattresses go, if you keep it too long, a metal spring can pop up and poke you, but the mattress ads imply that the mattress will get heavy from all the dead skin and bed bugs that will accumulate in eight years. If you don't get good sleep at night while on the road, you might go off it when you nod off, and you blame the accident on a tire blowout. There is your risk of using an old mattress, and an innocent tire gets blamed. ;D
As I see it, age has a bigger affect on the steel belted radials. Not so much for the bias ply tires.
Rubber may be water proof, but it isn't moisture proof - the steel belts can rust. I'm sure it isn't much of an issue in dry climates.
The bond between the rubber and the steel cords in the tire is not as durable as rubber & textile cords.
It is this hidden failure that causes my concern, especially since the unexpected tire failures I have experienced were all tires over 6 years old.
(Having a steer tire blow out at speed may influence your opinion on tire replacement intervals . . . )
Tire construction today amazes me, I had a blowout on my pickup and dropped the spare which has never touched the ground and the thing was separated at the tread so I sit till Coachnet sent a service truck with a new tire
Quote from: luvrbus on July 11, 2017, 08:09:34 PM
Tire construction today amazes me, I had a blowout on my pickup and dropped the spare which has never touched the ground and the thing was separated at the tread so I sit till Coachnet sent a service truck with a new tire
Yes, the rubber they use today ain't the same as it used to be.
I remember the first radials Dad got. Firestone 721s - they lasted over 40,000 miles. The most mileage he had gotten out of the bias ply tires was 20,000.
Quote from: kyle4501 on July 11, 2017, 08:33:48 PMYes, the rubber they use today ain't the same as it used to be.
I remember the first radials Dad got. Firestone 721s - they lasted over 40,000 miles. The most mileage he had gotten out of the bias ply tires was 20,000.
In 1973, I bought a long-wheel-base Dodge MaxiVan. It came with bias tires which lasted about 20K on the front axle. My dad's cousin owned a tire shop just down the street and he swore that he would never ride on any other tire than Michelin radials. He suggested an oversize Michelin truck radial ("throw the rear tires away, they might have a little tread on them but you'll love the radials" - he was right). I drove those tires for almost 10 years, an alignment problem caused one front to be worn unevenly at 90K (110K on the odometer) so I replaced both fronts and put the "good" used tire on the spare. About 15K later, I put a new pair on the rear axles. I lent that truck to my nephew in 1998 with those 14 and 12 year old tires on it and he drove it for about two years until he burnt up the engine.
I never really loaded those tires on that van. It was the days of the "oil crisis" speed limits (55 MPH) and I rarely carried more than two people and a couple of racing motorcycles, but to have two tires go 90K miles and the other pair of the set go 105K miles made me a Michelin believer. I got 100K miles out of the "Energie" tires on my first TDI; when a drunk totalled it, I bought a second TDI that had a mixture of mis-sized Japanese and Korean tires on it. ASAP, I got those off and have replaced them with Michelins every 90K miles for the 320K miles I've owned the second one. But Michelins on the TDIs haven't been trouble-free -- I got a broken piece of a little spring or circlip (about the size of a pencil lead and an inch long) in one and it had to be plugged when the speedo read about 350K miles ... that's all.
With bus tires running 12-14 or more plies and carrying tons of weight with the rubber that's made today, I'm going to spend the $$ it takes to replace at 7 years. I'm not saying that everybody should but that will be my choice.
Times have changed when I was younger your local service station (a thing of the past) was your local tire and battery shop.
I always ran Altas tires because the station always had the tires in stock wrap in paper.Times have changed and the American consumer set on their @$# and let the manufactures tell them what they needed like it not this is what you buy.My rant for today >:(
Clifford was the paper to protect the wooden spokes? ;D
Quote from: TomC on July 11, 2017, 12:17:36 AM
For the 8 new drive tires on my bus, I deviated from Michelin and bought Hankook. I figure that Freightliner has them as a standard tire offering, they can't be that bad. Plus almost $2,000 cheaper. The tires that were on the truck were 19 years old (truck has sat). Because I used Never Seize on all inner and outer wheel nuts, none locked up-all 80 came off and on without problem. Good Luck, TomC
Same - here - very good experience w/ Hankooks on the bus. MUCH less expen$ive and heard the truckers liked 'em. Works for me. ;D
Kind Regards, Phil
I too have Hankooks and Toyo for the front.
Quote from: luvrbus on July 11, 2017, 07:23:46 AM
Any of you guys old enough to remember when a tire was warrantied for the life of the tread dates had nothing to do with if the tire blew they measured the tread deducted a amount and gave you a new tire no matter how old the tire was
I'm 46...and I remember that.
We've all had tire discussions before, and opinions are varied. I've got 12R/22.5 now. Before I'm finished, the bus gets new tires...they are splitting on the walls.
I think I want to use the 315 80R 22.5. Those will fit on 8.5 Alcoas...right?
IMHO and FWIW...Maybe I should find that blowout video for the newbies. Not because they don't know, or to be offensive, but many people might not know that what you should do in an emergency isn't what most people think (have power in reserve...lightly accelerate to gain control...)
Quote from: daddysgirl on July 14, 2017, 11:20:34 AM
I'm 46...and I remember that.
We've all had tire discussions before, and opinions are varied. I've got 12R/22.5 now. Before I'm finished, the bus gets new tires...they are splitting on the walls.
I think I want to use the 315 80R 22.5. Those will fit on 8.5 Alcoas...right?
IMHO and FWIW...Maybe I should find that blowout video for the newbies. Not because they don't know, or to be offensive, but many people might not know that what you should do in an emergency isn't what most people think (have power in reserve...lightly accelerate to gain control...)
Yes. Down on the accelerator to regain control with a front puncture then steady braking once it's under control. Never hold the steering wheel with your thumbs inside as it could whip and break them, making it harder to control the bus. With a rear puncture, the back will shimmy. Off the accelerator and slow gradually using the footbrake.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
315/80R-22.5 is rated for a 9" wide rim. It may be used on a 8.25" rim with a reduction (like 10%) in weight carrying capability. Good Luck, TomC