I'm not a master wood worker, but I built my newly remodeled home kitchen cabinets form 3/4 oak ply, dato cut slots in the vertical pieces for base and top, I know how to make face frames, etc. Just giving some background.
From what I can tell there are two schools of thought on making cabinets for Bus / RVs
- Traditionally like a home - build boxes, hang them.
- Build in place - make the face frame, hang it, frame it out with sticks, then add sides and bottom, finish with doors, etc
I'm tackling the front cabinets right now, to house Audio / Video gear to support the TV, etc.
But then I'm moving onto the sides and in both scenarios how do I handle the under side of the cabinets? Just face over them with 3/8 ply? On my home kitchen cabinets no one ever sees the underside.
Or am I missing something completely?
Personally, I have always found that anchoring a 1x2 or 2x2" solid Birch strips to the frame allows for very strong cabinets that can hold more than you think. AND you can make the different cabinets...different...follow the roofline angle. go bigger, smaller, use drawers at floor level, etc.
But however you decide to build them, make sure they have a strong latch for traveling.
I built my cabinets from 2x4 anchored to the floor, ceiling and sides with L brackets and self drilling hex head screws. Every beam was anchored. My countertops and interior partitions are 3/4 OSB. The cabinet fronts are all drawers and doors. No wasted space. The ends are part of the next partition.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/6e6dff42fe8a6f9928dd1cf1964bb84f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/ac61625d23017ae97cf2ace32ef62315.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/446751f4446df1f0302f8f2da582a708.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/48d3a068ce7b0d3c87c08579842bd233.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/90dafeeb84c8ebf7e67dfc208003ecfe.jpg)
And that's some of my construction. Strong enough that I can pull on it and swing my weight enough to get the bus rocking and it stays put.
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I think construction method, either or will work. I started building in place but then found I could build them easier and sleeker like household cabinets and install them as I went. As for undersides on uppers, I made my face to hang an extra 1" or so below the bottom and when standing or sitting you don't really see the underside, it also allows space to add under cabinet lighting. I guess you'd see the bottom if you had cabinets over seating areas which I was originally planning but abandoned as I felt it was going to give the bus too much of a 'cave' feeling. Craig
We got cabinets that people were putting out while they remodeled their kitchens and I cut them to fit and sanded them and re-stained and lacquered them. A few in the Bedroom I made the boxes and face frames and then used doors off some others that fit. Pretty much free being they gave them away in good shape and I was retired contractor and had most of the other things we needed. >:(
I like using a template made out of 1/4 " paneling or plywood to get the angles right . then make the cabinets out of 5 / 8 " or 3 / 4 " ply with venner on one side and prebuild them outside of the coach then bring them in and install . soft close hinges , dwr slides with locks on all
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1280.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa484%2Fcrane66%2Fflorida%25202017%2520046_zpsczavujns.jpg&hash=52e84d00c68c86639faa150b1f46f78a0cf91ad8) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/florida%202017%20046_zpsczavujns.jpg.html)
first 2 banks of dwrs are replacements still working on the others
dave
My Biggest concern is the upper cabinets. I'm leaning towards building a face frame and maybe cutting a rabbit notch in the bottom rail to attach the plywood base to.
However I also think having a small cavity might be nice to run some switched led lights as well.
This mostly a question up front, because those cabinets are up against the odd shaped front roof and windshield area. Otherwise I think I'll build them like normal cabinets.
Gary and Van from B&B put 3/4" plywood, i got prefinished in the color my wife wanted, that were screwed to the bus wall, then cleats of 1X1" birch, that secure the cabinet frame to the plywood. Frame out of solid birch. There are two structural beams above and two below on your MCI9, where the overhead luggage bins and below where the seats secured. I put additional secure points for my cabinets and walls, keeping the rails above for later adding a drop down ceiling, for more insulation, ductwork and wiring, lvmci...sorry couldnt post picture...
Tertiary question : Choice of wood for face frames? Oak? Poplar? Pine?
Some stuff will be painted, others I might stain / finish. I like oak for finished stuff.
Hello: The harder the wood, the harder it is to work with such as routering, sawing sanding, finish issues. Oak is hard but typically used in home cabinets. I chose natural hickory due to the varying grain, but experienced lots of issues with routering, mostly need very well sharpened bits. I templated curves, and face framed my cabs. Good Luck Gerry H
Ok ill check in with my progress, this is where I'm at. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/1ce918324995e9f4094a5c29366dfb78.jpg)
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Gerry H, I really like the toilet by the kitchen counter, can talk to the wife preparing breakfast while sitting on the throne. Ha! Ha!
If you want some cabinets to follow the bend, cleats are the easiest way to install them.
Actually, IMHO, cleats give you the most variety in terms of how you want to lay out all the cabinets.
And your face frame can be placed so as to provide space for down or uplighting.
Choice of wood: Birch and/or walnut.
A different idea? We had some success using aluminum square tubing and angle for the supports and framing and paneling in the cabinets using bathroom plastic wall and shower panels. Lots of textures and colors available.
Very light weight. Finished already. Stiff with added aluminum angle. Loctite.
All bolted together. All fashioned to the floor and not the walls and ceiling. No squeaks. One could lay his eyes against the walls and see a 1/8 inch gap all the way to the rear. The cabinetry never touched the walls or ceilings.
No wood inside the coach at all. Ex Crown School bus.
Quote from: HB of CJ on July 06, 2017, 10:46:46 AM
A different idea? We had some success using aluminum square tubing and angle for the supports and framing and paneling in the cabinets using bathroom plastic wall and shower panels. Lots of textures and colors available.
Very light weight. Finished already. Stiff with added aluminum angle. Loctite.
All bolted together. All fashioned to the floor and not the walls and ceiling. No squeaks. One could lay his eyes against the walls and see a 1/8 inch gap all the way to the rear. The cabinetry never touched the walls or ceilings.
No wood inside the coach at all. Ex Crown School bus.
I've been thinking of doing something broadly similar, but using IKEA cabinets instead of FRP sheet. I would make aluminum frames using 6063 angle bolted to the floor, then use IKEA's cabinets on the outside. They would look like standard IKEA cabinets, but would have a skeleton inside that takes all the load. Has anyone here done anything like this?
My overhead cabinets in the kitchen will be entirely metal. A length of steel angle rebent to about 60 degrees will be bolted to the roof ribs using jack nuts (rated at over 800 lbf each), and vertical hangers of 1" wide aluminum will drop down to support the cabinet floor made from aluminum plate that's also bolted to the side wall above the windows. Top-hinged doors with struts to keep them open against the ceiling, and LED lights inside, should make a very strong cabinet that won't ever fall down!
John
not a fan of ikea . there screw attachment system sucks they always come loose . use lots of white or carpenters glue and screws and clamps if you have them
plywood lasts longer then particle board . price is a small amount more
dave
Quote from: sledhead on July 06, 2017, 03:27:00 PM
not a fan of ikea . there screw attachment system sucks they always come loose . use lots of white or carpenters glue and screws and clamps if you have them
plywood lasts longer then particle board . price is a small amount more
dave
Yup, I know their funky little quarter-turn locks are a poor design especially in a vehicle, thus my idea of reinforcing with an internal skeleton. Unfortunately I have no woodworking equipment to make cabinets, and I hate making anything out of wood anyway! It's easier for me to hold a few thous tolerances in metal than to try and make something to a 16th out of wood. Splitting and warping and shrinking and knots and oozing resin - yuck. That's one reason I'll have very little wood in my bus. I do however like the look of simple clean minimalist Scandinavian-meets-Bauhaus, and IKEA is a cheap and easy way for me to get that look.
John
One of the issues newbys don't think of, is safety in an accident, the flying drawers, sofas, dishes and refrigerators. And where they might go in an accident. I have to move my sofa, for my kids to sleep. Ive rigged up a heavy rachat strap bolted to the passenger seat rail, with just one hole in the base of the jack knife sofa. Yes I have to release the strap move it, but it's safe during travel, lvmci...
Seeing ikea or even other cabinetry from home stores makes me sick. I won't ever ever never ever buy particle board furniture or cabinets if I care about longevity.
Sure my 5 year olds desk? Whatever ikea is fine.
Moved the project along a bit and adapted the design some. I'm angling both front cabinets toward the center following the window curve. This will also give more head room near the stairs. Will post pics when tap talk behaves.
Nothing made of particle board should make it onto a bus.
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I agree about particle board and will also stay away from OSB if at all possible. The big problem with these is moisture take-up. At the first sign of a water leak into the bus from a plumbing problem or window leak, these will soak up the moisture. They will swell up in size and become very weak.
Furniture-grade plywood with a hardwood veneer is nice for making cabinet panels. We avoid the stuff at the box stores though, as there is a huge difference in quality between what places like Lowes and HD sell and what can be found at lumber stores. Here in Milwaukee I go to Alpine Plywood. Places like this carry a much nicer stock and it comes in a variety of types, including some really nice pre-finished panels.
For the best in stability, Baltic Birch plywood is the way to go. It's the stuff our school furniture was made of in the pre-plastic days. Baltic Birch is the plywood made of lots of very thin layers, and each layer is actually birch and not junk wood. We've made some really nice furniture using it without veneering it. The end result has the look of the high-end 'Scandinavian' furniture for sale.
A great tip for cutting large panels cleanly without a stand-up panel saw is to lay a 1-1/2" pink foam insulating board on your workbench or floor and use it as a large cutting board. Set your blade for about 1/8" deeper than the material thickness, lay the wood panel on the foam board, and then make the cut. Doing it this way means the cut-off piece doesn't need to be supported and has no way to fall off and tear the veneer on its way down. No need for someone to hold the cutt-off piece for you. If you've got access to a track saw (like a Festool) then you will end up with glue-ready cuts.
Hope this helps.
Richad
For straight cuts I have a (nice to me) delta table saw with a 30" rip capacity and I made some outfeed tables. So nice having square cuts.
This is where I got last night. The 2x3 below is just to support the outer edge until I get the face panel up.
I'm not doing a normal face frame on this one because of the curved roofline.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/2f792b64e8eb9ddfc8e656f2f27ba09e.jpg)
OSB is waterproof if it's painted and having observed OSB in the wet and rain, it takes a few weeks of constant soaking to affect it. Eventually though, it's just a case of shoveling up the OSB once it's wet enough. I'm not too worried. I dealt with all my leaks.
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Quote from: lvmci on July 06, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
One of the issues newbys don't think of, is safety in an accident, the flying drawers, sofas, dishes and refrigerators. And where they might go in an accident. I have to move my sofa, for my kids to sleep. Ive rigged up a heavy rachat strap bolted to the passenger seat rail, with just one hole in the base of the jack knife sofa. Yes I have to release the strap move it, but it's safe during travel, lvmci...
Yep. VERY important. I even have velcro on all sides of everything that hangs on the wall. The first time a pot goes into the windshield because the lock wasn't there...I know someone who had an accident because of that.
Whatever cabinet design you decide on, mount it to the frame, and have a place to secure everything...even the dog.
And...Is it just me, or is that emergency access hatch leaking...or did it used to leak?
Hatch Is not leaking , never has.
I'll attach to frame where I can, also have 3/8 ply over everything. Some anchors will be 2x3 that are in turn attached to frame.
Quote from: daddysgirl on July 07, 2017, 10:30:24 AM
Yep. VERY important. I even have velcro on all sides of everything that hangs on the wall. The first time a pot goes into the windshield because the lock wasn't there...I know someone who had an accident because of that.
Whatever cabinet design you decide on, mount it to the frame, and have a place to secure everything...even the dog.
And...Is it just me, or is that emergency access hatch leaking...or did it used to leak?
Yes. You need everything secure but you also need to be much more vigilant than with a car. The vast majority of the bad driving I see comes from car drivers on their blasted cellphones.
Allow a safe braking distance. If something gets in your safe braking distance, drop back. Rinse and repeat if necessary. If somebody is tailgating you, reduce speed.
Be aware of everything around you and likely to be around. I was able to swerve a schoolbus in an instant when somebody pulled out of the turn lane without looking because I knew the right lane was clear. Had the right lane not have been clear, that guy would have been dead by his own hands. I can't stop a bus loaded with school kids on a dime.
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Quote from: Zephod on July 07, 2017, 10:56:13 AM
Yes. You need everything secure but you also need to be much more vigilant than with a car. The vast majority of the bad driving I see comes from car drivers on their blasted cellphones.
Allow a safe braking distance. If something gets in your safe braking distance, drop back. Rinse and repeat if necessary. If somebody is tailgating you, reduce speed.
Be aware of everything around you and likely to be around. I was able to swerve a schoolbus in an instant when somebody pulled out of the turn lane without looking because I knew the right lane was clear. Had the right lane not have been clear, that guy would have been dead by his own hands. I can't stop a bus loaded with school kids on a dime.
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I totally agree and would add that anyone driving a bus that does not know this... needs to stop driving a bus.