I'm looking at electric water heaters. I've not put gas into my bus other than a Coleman camp cooker. That'll work for everything when I'm not plugged in.
I wired for a 30A inlet. I've got a socket for a dorm fridge (probably 5-7A) and two spare sockets. I'm toying with the idea of putting this tankless water heater in (http://www.mytanklesswaterheaterstore.com/eemax-sp2412-single-point-electric-tankless-water-heater-120v-2-4kw-20a/). I can easily wire in a 20A cable to a 20A breaker on my breaker box. I figure if I'm plugged into water then electricity will be available.
I'm thinking this would work for the handbasin and the shower. It doesn't have to be very warm water. Just as long as it takes the chill off cold water for showering. I could put it under the handbasin and have a second water line heading down and under the floor to the shower.
The question is... has anybody found a 15A version? I'm not after really hot water. Luke warm is fine.
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HI;
I used a 3gal water heater from Home Depot. It runs on a 15 amp
breaker. It provides some hot water, can't do too much until it
runs out. We also plug it in when on the road so we have hot water
when we stop. Just have to pay attention when power is available
and when it is not. Works for us.
Merle. :)
33°F rise at 0.5 gpm...best for hand washing. Won't work well for a shower
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on June 12, 2017, 05:35:30 PM33°F rise at 0.5 gpm...best for hand washing. Won't work well for a shower
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It'll take the chill off the water. That's all I need.
Also... with a maximum 30A of power with 5-7A being used by a fridge, 20A is all that's left.
As fir water tanks... not really interested in the,.
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A low flow shower head may make that smaller on-demand heater a little more comfortable.
Bricor has a few. This one says .625gpm @50psi. http://bricor.com/products/ultramax/ (http://bricor.com/products/ultramax/)
In 1993, I bought 2-10gal electric water heaters from Home Depot. One is plumbed into the next with the final water heater wired through the inverter to have hot water going down the road. I use 2-10gal instead of one 20gal to have faster recovery. We've never run out of hot water even after 2 showers and washing dishes. Since 1993, I've done NOTHING to those water heaters except to drain them once a year.
I say this, because instant water heaters are known to be trouble some. Just get either a 6gal or 10gal tank type electric water heater from Home Depot and be done with it. They cost about the same. Good Luck, TomC
I'm solely after instant water heaters. I think I've seen one online at 15A and about $180 which seems very steep for something that's essentially a tube with a heating coil wrapped around it.
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For an effective on demand electric water heater you are going to need a lot more power than a 15 amp 115 volt circuit will give you. Just a waste of money, IMO.
I can tell you from experience, that instant water heaters are troublesome, need LOTS of electricity to run. Either a 6gal or 10gal electric water heater are just about trouble free. If the heating element goes out, you can get a new one for about $20 at HD. Save yourself a lot of grief and just use a normal electric water heater. Good Luck, TomC
And that water tank style heater can be run via an inverter while you go down the road, so free and silent hot water for camping on arrival, and happily stays hot for many hours afterwards.
For the same money, the chance for hot water at destinations without a power pole?
For that pleasure, it will fit in somewhere.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on June 13, 2017, 08:26:05 AMAnd that water tank style heater can be run via an inverter while you go down the road, so free and silent hot water for camping on arrival, and happily stays hot for many hours afterwards. ...
Or a simple loop of plain copper pipe about 16" long (effective length - it will have to coil or bend but that's easy) connected to radiator coolant will give you *super hot* water for free. Add it to a tempering valve so 6 gallons in the heater will give you 12 gallons of hot-shower-temp water.
But he's not looking for anything like that.
Here's another way to look at it. 15 amps of 120v power is 1800 watts. How much of a rise in temperature are you going to get with water moving past an 1800w heating element in an 'on demand' water heater?
It seems on-demand water needs more power as it has to heat water very quickly. A water storage tank can heat water much slower so less demanding on energy draw. For electrical supply @110, it seems unrealistic to use on-demand. Propane on-demand should work fine for judicious use of hot water.
Why waste your time confusing the issue with facts,, the man has his mind made up.>>>Dan
This one from Home Depot is $159
http://www.homedepot.com/p/AquaPower-120-Volt-1-8-kW-0-27-GPM-Compact-Point-of-Use-Tankless-Electric-Water-Heater-AQM-2-1/206642687?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CG%7C0%7CG-BASE-PLA-D26P-WaterHeaters%7C&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmv7JBRDXkMWW4_Tf8ZoBEiQA11B2fn_i2gbHsV0-PJuYwR-L8SiKkUbo1XbgAprrNLKBf5caAtbC8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
Or this one from amazon:
Bosch T 2.5-Gallon Electric Mini-Tank Under Sink Water Heater https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0148O658Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_SCgqzbWS3JXAP
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The link provides support that electric on-demand units are inadequate. Maybe I'm the odd one out but taking a shower at a quart a minute won't cut it. :-\
There are cheap 6 gallon electric water heaters that run on around 12 amps. I think you could find a 10 gallon that would take 15 or 16 amps.
My 10 gal electric water heaters each have a 1500 watt element (12 amps). From dead cold, it takes 45 minutes to heat. The insulation is good enough where I will have hot water all day from running in the morning. Good Luck, TomC
We all like to help others when a question is asked but at times why beat the post to death. If a person has their mind made up let them go with it and if it fails or doesn't work it is a learning lesson for them. In this case let him go with his choice.
Quote from: scanzel on June 14, 2017, 03:14:27 AM
We all like to help others when a question is asked but at times why beat the post to death. If a person has their mind made up let them go with it and if it fails or doesn't work it is a learning lesson for them. In this case let him go with his choice.
I think the problem is that everybody has their vision of an ideal and don't fully understand the situation the other person is building around.
Honestly, if I'd followed the ideals others had come out with, my motorhome would have cost about $150,000 to convert yet still be only a $4000 bus when it's time to sell it.
Fact.... 30A power supplies are very common. 50A and 100A are not.
Fact.... An electric shower using 30A of a 30A supply is going to blow the fuse when the fridge cuts in.
Fact... on a cold day I'm likely to want to use a fan heater as well as the shower and fridge. That's another 5A
Conclusion 30A -5A (fan heater) -7A (Fridge on startup) = 18A. Thus 15A is the maximum electric shower permitted.
There is and never will be any onboard generator nor any major batteries.
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One option is to make some solar water panels and run them up on the roof. Lots of real estate up there. Coils of soft copper tubing, black paint, a circulation pump, and a 10 or 20 gallon electric heater that you don't have to plug in if you don't want to to use as a holding tank for the hot water.
Fact.... An electric shower using 30A of a 30A supply is going to blow the fuse when the fridge cuts in.
I did find this
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/water-heaters/tankless/at-900-03-tankless-electric-instant-water-heater-3kw-110v?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQjwg47KBRDk7LSu4LTD8eEBEiQAO4O6r66vtrD7_OJV_Hq48aQsGS9fRTlWpEXZfrQbb1C1IPMaAleY8P8HAQ (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/water-heaters/tankless/at-900-03-tankless-electric-instant-water-heater-3kw-110v?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQjwg47KBRDk7LSu4LTD8eEBEiQAO4O6r66vtrD7_OJV_Hq48aQsGS9fRTlWpEXZfrQbb1C1IPMaAleY8P8HAQ)
(on first search) that seems to may meet your requirements although I think 3000 watts is a bit much on a 20 amp circuit. The quick search I did seems to indicate that you should limit that to about 2400 watts.
Fact... on a cold day I'm likely to want to use a fan heater as well as the shower and fridge. That's another 5A
Most small electric space heaters are rated at 1500 watts (about 12.5 amps) on high because they are designed to be plugged into a standard house 15A receptacle.
Quote from: somewhereinusa on June 16, 2017, 06:43:43 AM
Fact.... An electric shower using 30A of a 30A supply is going to blow the fuse when the fridge cuts in.
I did find this
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/water-heaters/tankless/at-900-03-tankless-electric-instant-water-heater-3kw-110v?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQjwg47KBRDk7LSu4LTD8eEBEiQAO4O6r66vtrD7_OJV_Hq48aQsGS9fRTlWpEXZfrQbb1C1IPMaAleY8P8HAQ (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/water-heaters/tankless/at-900-03-tankless-electric-instant-water-heater-3kw-110v?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQjwg47KBRDk7LSu4LTD8eEBEiQAO4O6r66vtrD7_OJV_Hq48aQsGS9fRTlWpEXZfrQbb1C1IPMaAleY8P8HAQ)
(on first search) that seems to may meet your requirements although I think 3000 watts is a bit much on a 20 amp circuit. The quick search I did seems to indicate that you should limit that to about 2400 watts.
Fact... on a cold day I'm likely to want to use a fan heater as well as the shower and fridge. That's another 5A
Most small electric space heaters are rated at 1500 watts (about 12.5 amps) on high because they are designed to be plugged into a standard house 15A receptacle.
Ahh. I have an automatic ceramic fan heater that runs well at 500W and which also has a 1000w setting that I just never use.
I've been looking at some 15A instant water heaters. The idea is to mount under the handbasin, tee it off to both the handbasin and the shower. Trouble is those I've seen are old adverts for stuff no longer sold.
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This is the advantage of a regular tank type water heater. You build up the heat in the water heater-say when you're sleeping. Then in the morning, turn off the water heater, turn on the coffee maker, space heater, etc so not to blow the 30 amp breaker. If you have a point of use instant water heater, you'll have to turn off everything while you take a shower. You don't have to keep the tank type water heater on all the time (I don't). Once heated, a tank water heater will stay warm all day. Granted it takes more space, but the simplicity of a tanked water heater is second to none. Good Luck, TomC
Not to re-mention another fact: a 6-10 gallon tank heater uses 12 amps, which is less than the instant heater you are talking about. I agree that one has to make budgetary compromises in their build, but this plan seems to offer very little savings and a large reduction in function. If you are truly in love with the idea of instantaneous hot water, you may have to look at propane, which I understand is not something you want (though could also be used to upgrade your cooking facilities). Of course, there are many on this board that, like yourself, prefer the all-electric coach concept.
All he is wanting is a point of use water heater they are reasonably price 100 or so bucks,if you are looking at a fast recovery propane is the way to go
When you get done cutting corners,,home brew,,makeshift installs,, you will be making SURE its only worth 4K at sell time.>>>Dan
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on June 16, 2017, 10:49:20 AM
When you get done cutting corners,,home brew,,makeshift installs,, you will be making SURE its only worth 4K at sell time.>>>Dan
I'm building for me for my specific purposes. The next owner can do what the hell they like. I'm not building it for them.
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Quote from: luvrbus on June 16, 2017, 09:58:49 AM
All he is wanting is a point of use water heater they are reasonably price 100 or so bucks,if you are looking at a fast recovery propane is the way to go
I decided against gas for a number of reasons although when dry camping, I do have a little Coleman single burner butane cooker that can be used to heat water for my shower.
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Quote from: Lin on June 16, 2017, 09:39:50 AM
Not to re-mention another fact: a 6-10 gallon tank heater uses 12 amps, which is less than the instant heater you are talking about. I agree that one has to make budgetary compromises in their build, but this plan seems to offer very little savings and a large reduction in function. If you are truly in love with the idea of instantaneous hot water, you may have to look at propane, which I understand is not something you want (though could also be used to upgrade your cooking facilities). Of course, there are many on this board that, like yourself, prefer the all-electric coach concept.
I did consider a water tank heater but decided against it as I'm running out of space under the floor to put things. I took a very leaky 15 gallon water heater out of the original build.
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Zephod, I think J.M. Jackson gave you the answer you were looking for. Put some soft copper or even black irrigation pipe on your roof and run a line down the side to hook a hoze to. On a sunny day, a good length of that in 1" takes a long time before you get cold water out the end. And when you disconnect the hoze, it automatically drains so you're not packing any extra weight. Cheap, easy, and it's not under your feet.
Just sounded good for a warm climate,
Will
Quote from: PP on June 16, 2017, 06:49:06 PM
Zephod, I think J.M. Jackson gave you the answer you were looking for. Put some soft copper or even black irrigation pipe on your roof and run a line down the side to hook a hoze to. On a sunny day, a good length of that in 1" takes a long time before you get cold water out the end. And when you disconnect the hoze, it automatically drains so you're not packing any extra weight. Cheap, easy, and it's not under your feet.
Just sounded good for a warm climate,
Will
I do admit I like that idea. Excellent for a static home. I'm against things on the roof though due to low branches.
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Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 13, 2017, 09:44:52 AM
Or a simple loop of plain copper pipe about 16" long (effective length - it will have to coil or bend but that's easy) connected to radiator coolant will give you *super hot* water for free. Add it to a tempering valve so 6 gallons in the heater will give you 12 gallons of hot-shower-temp water.
I am LOVING this idea...but it seems that what you want is a point of use unit like what Scott linked to.
Just a thought...
You could put one on the shower and one on the sink and run each off of either electric or individual propane canisters. I was looking at tankless for a time, and I found the same thing.
But just about the only thing I have found to be "fact" is that you'll never get back what you put into it. Like you said...build it for your needs. The beauty of it is that you can upgrade (or not) should your wife ever demand faucet water hot enough to steam her pores :)
But I have not personally run across too many places that don't have 50A. I do have a 50-30 connector, (I collect as many connectors as possible) but that is mainly until I change the outlet on the side of the house.
Quote from: daddysgirl on June 18, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
I am LOVING this idea...but it seems that what you want is a point of use unit like what Scott linked to.
Just a thought...
You could put one on the shower and one on the sink and run each off of either electric or individual propane canisters. I was looking at tankless for a time, and I found the same thing.
But just about the only thing I have found to be "fact" is that you'll never get back what you put into it. Like you said...build it for your needs. The beauty of it is that you can upgrade (or not) should your wife ever demand faucet water hot enough to steam her pores :)
But I have not personally run across too many places that don't have 50A. I do have a 50-30 connector, (I collect as many connectors as possible) but that is mainly until I change the outlet on the side of the house.
The only instant gas water heaters I've seen have been fiendishly complex devices that I can't just install underneath the floor due to the controls and pilot light etc.
The 15A electric solution is far easier to install. Where I'm parked I have a 30A supply but a 20A cable.
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Small world. I bookmarked this page: ;D
http://www.mytanklesswaterheaterstore.com/eccotemp-fvi12-lp-indoor-tankless-water-heater/ (http://www.mytanklesswaterheaterstore.com/eccotemp-fvi12-lp-indoor-tankless-water-heater/)
Andrea, why did you not go tankless or did you? Sorry if I missed your decision earlier. This thread interests me as tankless water heaters seem an ideal solution for a bus, whether boondocking or stationary for short and medium term. Obviously long term will be on shore and not have current restrictions.
Quote from: daddysgirl on June 18, 2017, 10:51:09 AM
Small world. I bookmarked this page: ;D
http://www.mytanklesswaterheaterstore.com/eccotemp-fvi12-lp-indoor-tankless-water-heater/ (http://www.mytanklesswaterheaterstore.com/eccotemp-fvi12-lp-indoor-tankless-water-heater/)
Neat but needs to be inside which is not where I want gas situated.
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Hi, Andrea I have tankless in both buses and installed the Eco temp that's in your bookmark in my current bus there were two versions of 110 + 2 D batteries the AC version was the only available at the time I've been very happy with it it takes a bit to equalize the knobs to get water at the temperature that you want it. it is mounted in the bay with propane tank in the next Bay over and vented it through the floor and out to the side like a propane heater. Zephod, the first tankless was mounted in the bathroom and served equally as well. lvmci...
Zephod, I can't keep up with your innovative ideas, but do you have an inside shower?
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on June 18, 2017, 02:09:22 PM
Zephod, I can't keep up with your innovative ideas, but do you have an inside shower?
--Geoff
My inside shower is currently powered by 4 D cell electric shower pump and hot water from a 3 gallon cooler.
I dislike gas because it has too much unpredictable potential for disaster. It also introduces a lot of water vapor.
I'm figuring that if I'm parked up with a water supply and electricity then I don't need gas. On the rare occasions when electricity is unavailable, I do have a little one burner butane stove that can be used.
Most places where I can park have a 30A supply so.... I need a 15A instant water heater. Just one will be fine. I can put a tee connector and have hot going to the shower and to the handbasin.
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I don't like propane either. But-I do have a propane furnace and stove. I have a 20gal chassis mount propane tank with a solenoid on valve. Only have pressure when gas is needed. Granted when the furnace is on, the propane is on-but that's when the bus is stopped. And have a gas/CO detector right next to the furnace. Otherwise, everything else in my bus is electric. Good Luck, TomC
I haven't decided on a specific system yet, but whatever I do the gas and heaters (water and temp) will be in a bay, vented.
The big heater is still in the bus...but I'm moving it. The small water heater is also on the bus. BUT the propane has NEVER been on the bus. I'm going to move it but it will still be in a bay.
The water heater was the first thing dad installed...even after I fought about it for 2 days. EVERYTHING after that was limited because he was stubborn (at least I got that trait honestly) ;D
I don't love Propane, but I have been getting used to it since living in this house. But this conversion will take me longer than the 3751 and 4106 did, so I'll have more time to be thoughtful.
It seems propane is safe as I have no recollection of reading about an RV exploding a huge ball of flames. Proper installation and venting is a given but virtually all coaches capable of boondocking seem to require it for heating.
No battery system has sufficient capacity to keep a coach warm on a cold night.
I guess there is a wood stove but even though they may be EPA certified, it seems rather a basic user error can light up an interior fairly easy. Plus you lose a few sq ft of usable coach space.
An electric water is the only choice in an all electric coach. You'll need to run the genset if parked for awhile and need hot water.
Numerous options. Guess it just depends on your personal preference and requirements. Good discussion.
My coach has a Raritan 20 gallon electric water heater that has a loop of copper heat exchanger so it gets heated while driving down the road with coolant. Because of its size and good insulation I have plenty of hot water for a shower a day after the engine was run. The only time I rely on the electric heating element is when we are parked somewhere for several days.
Most water heater capacities in conversions seem to be in the 5-10 gallon range. Maybe the large professional conversion like yours have larger units. For me, I can't image going more than 24 hours and needing more hot water. Between a couple showers and a couple meals worth of dishes, it'll likely be gone in no time.
I know this is about water heaters but if most coaches run coach heat on propane then you the issues related to that fuel are moot, so it seems logical to use it for hot water (ala tankless). Still interesting to hear all facets of the topic.
I have on demand hot water with the diesel fired heating system, I did install 2-10 gal marine electric water heaters(because of size) with heat exchangers for hot water from the engine too.
Only reason I installed the 2 water heaters was for storage and I didn't like the diesel fired system coming on when you needed hot water.
If it wasn't for cutting holes in the side of bus for venting and adding a tank Propane would have been my 1st choice because of the recovery time with Propane
I think I have the only solution for Zephod (this thread was started by him, wasn't it?). There exists a 20 amp power cord for the bus. Zephod complains that his refer uses up too much power to run both his refer and his water heater. Simple solution-- unplug the refer for 30-40 minutes while his water gets hot enough for a shower. Nothing is going to spoil.
--Geoff
:o that will work,a kilowatt hour cost me $.14 cents that is a 1000 watts per hour how much would cost to heat 10 gals of water with a 1500 watt element water heater not much
Quote from: windtrader on June 19, 2017, 02:08:09 PMMost water heater capacities in conversions seem to be in the 5-10 gallon range. ... it'll likely be gone in no time.
My water heater is 10 gallons but when the water in that heater has been heated by the "loop exchanger" off the engine coolant, the temperature is 190 degrees. There is a tempering valve on the water heater, when you draw water what you get is mixed water at about 105 degrees (adjustable). The 10 gallons of hot water in the tank goes to make 20-30-more??? There's no way to know exactly when all the hot water has been used up (did it get used or did it cool off???), but I can tell you, my experience has been like Jon's -- if I drive more than two hours, I have all the (free) hot water I can use for at least a day.
If anyone has a schematic of the "loop" or anything else, using the engine coolant to heat water, I would REALLY love to see it. I installed 2 2 electrical lines and a hole large enough to run copper lines to the engine compartment when I tore out the rear and re-did the insulation etc. I built in the ability...just need a schematic ???? :)
Quote from: daddysgirl on June 20, 2017, 07:47:07 AM
If anyone has a schematic of the "loop" or anything else, using the engine coolant to heat water, I would REALLY love to see it. I installed 2 2 electrical lines and a hole large enough to run copper lines to the engine compartment when I tore out the rear and re-did the insulation etc. I built in the ability...just need a schematic ???? :)
The loop is usually made into the heater,I don't believe you can just add one to a standard water heater the loop has to be isolated from the tank water some way,all things are possible though.Jon's coach has a $800.00 heater,I got my 2 from a Country Coach Prevost for 100 bucks ea and they were almost new
Thank you!
Reading your comments made me realize I might be thinking too complicated. I already have the vents for the water heater and the big Webasto. Although I am going to move the units, I can duct the Webasto to the same vent, and possibly whatever new hot water system I use. Point being...I already set up for Propane, it works safely and I might not need to get nutty with it? If I use the tankless, I'll find a different use for the Suburban opening, or vent them out of it.
one of those flat plate heat exchangers and a pump to circulate turns the everyday box store water heater into a fancy RV/marine engine heated tank.
Just one google place:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Heat-Exchangers-821000 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/Heat-Exchangers-821000)
happy coaching!
buswarrior
That is true BW but by the time you get through with the piping,pump and valving you can buy a heater
We had a marine style in the 4104 for years. It was trouble free and always had plenty of hot water. We used a spray wand in the shower that had an on off button to conserve water while soaping up.
For what its worth,
My 30A travel trailer had a 3-way switch after the breaker -
-- common to the hot wire from breaker
-- one traveler to the AC
-- other traveler to the microwave
No overloading when only one high amp load can be used at a time.
Daddy's Girl,
Have you already installed your water heater, because if you haven't the Atwood with an 'H' in the model number stands for 'H'eat exchanger. It's really nothing more than an aluminum pipe welded into the hot water part of the tank with an inlet and outlet fitting. I'm not ready to mess around with the engine coolant connections as I've developed a real dread of leaks, but it will warm the water to your engine for cold start assistance or heat up water in the water heater while you're going down the road. Like Oonrahnjay commented earlier, you'll get 190° water in your hot water tank, or even higher if you're doing much hill climbing and towing a big toad.
Will
I installed on demand propane hot water last fall in our coach . No pilot ignites on demand and works awesome !
Quote from: Beesme on June 21, 2017, 11:34:09 AM
I installed on demand propane hot water last fall in our coach . No pilot ignites on demand and works awesome !
Propane water heating ideas fail at the first hurdle since the heaters cannot be trusted to be installed under the floor. Otherwise, I would consider a propane water heater since a lot of places don't charge for water but do for electricity.
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Quote from: PP on June 20, 2017, 05:47:26 PM
Daddy's Girl,
Have you already installed your water heater, because if you haven't the Atwood with an 'H' in the model number stands for 'H'eat exchanger. It's really nothing more than an aluminum pipe welded into the hot water part of the tank with an inlet and outlet fitting. I'm not ready to mess around with the engine coolant connections as I've developed a real dread of leaks, but it will warm the water to your engine for cold start assistance or heat up water in the water heater while you're going down the road. Like Oonrahnjay commented earlier, you'll get 190° water in your hot water tank, or even higher if you're doing much hill climbing and towing a big toad.
Will
So if your engine begins to get too hot climbing a hill, all you need is a good hot shower to cool the engine down? I'll try that next time I'm climbing the Grapevine or Cajon Pass - I think there are some straight sections of road there where I can quickly run back and take a quick shower. That's what cruise control is for, yes?
John
A propane instant water heater need not be mounted under the floor. In our last bus, we had one just mounted on the wall of the bathroom. It wasn't even directly vented; one merely opened the bathroom roof vent as needed.
Just as Lin mentioned, my 5A had a Paloma brand tankless propane heater also,mounted in the bathroom wall under the overhead fan, With no pipe venting. it worked great as does my new one mounted in a bay, with vent pipe up thru the floor, right angle thru the billboard wall, like a house heater. I always took the gases as a propane or natural gas stove gases, that you cook over, pretty clean burn, but still be aware, of the possible problems, lbmci....
Quote from: Lin on June 21, 2017, 02:45:48 PM
A propane instant water heater need not be mounted under the floor. In our last bus, we had one just mounted on the wall of the bathroom. It wasn't even directly vented; one merely opened the bathroom roof vent as needed.
That's the thing... if I did put a propane water heater, I'd want it under the bus where gas and fumes would not enter the bus.
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Why under the bus the last time I heard Carbon Monoxide was lighter than air
Quote from: luvrbus on June 21, 2017, 07:23:51 PM
Why under the bus the last time I heard Carbon Monoxide was lighter than air
You have to weld up square ducting with a muffin fan to get rid of the noxious fumes. Cliff, when are you going to think outside of the box?
--Geoff
Quote from: luvrbus on June 21, 2017, 07:23:51 PM
Why under the bus the last time I heard Carbon Monoxide was lighter than air
Space and I don't want any gas burning crap inside the bus.
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People cook with gas, some prefer it, resturaunts do. Some people prefer electric stoves and heat. Its about personal preference, costs and space. I prefer gas, sometimes I boondock, gas allows heat and cooking without turning on the generator, or being tied to a pole. For me that does it. Personal preference, no need to go further. Lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on June 22, 2017, 07:35:04 AM
People cook with gas, some prefer it, resturaunts do. Some people prefer electric stoves and heat. Its about personal preference, costs and space. I prefer gas, sometimes I boondock, gas allows heat and cooking without turning on the generator, or being tied to a pole. For me that does it. Personal preference, no need to go further. Lvmci...
That's so right on. There are plenty more coaches carrying propane than electric only or nothing. With reasonable safety considerations during installation planning and use, it is safe, so it just comes down to personal prefrence, ala lvmci!
Here is another worthless post to add to a subject that has already been decided by the keynote poster....
The only propane I have in my bus conversion is to supply my cooktop, I hate electric ranges because they take forever to warm up and cool down, and they smell in the meantime. I have a microwave/convection oven instead of an oven.
I am not afraid of propane.
--Geoff
Geoff-- Electric coil burners are not my favorite either, but I do prefer it over building a wood fire. Our house is all-electric and we made do with the electric coil stove for maybe 8 years. Then we bought an induction cooktop, which is great. I now rank gas cooking as second to induction. However, I do find propane to be easiest for the bus since we use it for heat also; it is just more practical for dry camping anyway. I know that there are some the would warn that propane is somewhat more dangerous, but I think that statistics would show that there are far more rv electrical fires than gas fires.
Note: I felt like adding somewhere that propane is flammable while electricity is not, but I did not do it since I was afraid someone might take it seriously.
i carry propane...for my Weber Q ;D
We carry 160 lbs of propane and it really makes it easier to boondock. We have no solar. Two gennys on board. One 6,5 kw, the boondocker is 800 watts, ok unless the need for a/c. Propane goes to heaters, stove, oven, refrigerator, water heater, grill. So it is our major source of Independence. We've even used it for propane injection on the engine but less need for it since the rebuild, runs much stronger now...
I vote for induction hobs. As fast, if not faster than gas. And a of a heck lot less juice than a resistance cook-top.
Quote from: Lin on June 23, 2017, 05:19:58 PM
Geoff-- Electric coil burners are not my favorite either, but I do prefer it over building a wood fire. Our house is all-electric and we made do with the electric coil stove for maybe 8 years. Then we bought an induction cooktop, which is great. I now rank gas cooking as second to induction. However, I do find propane to be easiest for the bus since we use it for heat also; it is just more practical for dry camping anyway. I know that there are some the would warn that propane is somewhat more dangerous, but I think that statistics would show that there are far more rv electrical fires than gas fires.
Note: I felt like adding somewhere that propane is flammable while electricity is not, but I did not do it since I was afraid someone might take it seriously.
LOL Lin.
Point well taken. Electricity isn't flammable unless something is installed or configured by a total idiot...adjacent to something combustible ;D Minus the combustible (which some could argue is nearly impossible on a bus) it's a matter of preference. Fire or electrocution or carbon monoxide. I say not acceptable to all.
Although it has already been beaten, it's a matter of personal preference.
Quote from: dtcerrato on June 24, 2017, 12:58:00 AM
We carry 160 lbs of propane and it really makes it easier to boondock. We have no solar. Two gennys on board. One 6,5 kw, the boondocker is 800 watts, ok unless the need for a/c. Propane goes to heaters, stove, oven, refrigerator, water heater, grill. So it is our major source of Independence. We've even used it for propane injection on the engine but less need for it since the rebuild, runs much stronger now...
Honest question: Where do you put 160 lbs of propane? How many tanks? I would love to have that flexibility.
There's four 30 LB ers in what used to be the A/C condenser bay. The compartment door is 60 percent expanded metal - good ventilation. We have auto change over regulator with two tanks manifolded on each bank. Nice capacity and easy alternating fill with portability + the toad. Then there are two 20 LB ers for grilling +/or propane injection or can be manifolded on one of the change over banks. We started the conversion from an in service charter bus in 1979 and went with propane because of the frequency of boon docking. It has worked very well for lots of years without incident. We can + do go electric during shore power or Genny, including the 20 gal. Electric water heater.
Mine came with a 49 gallon propane tank mounted under the coach (about 210 lbs).
A bit of a hassle to fill, but with our usage, it lasts a really, really long time (over 2 years so far). Cooking & heating only, water heater is electric/ engine heated. We also have an electric cook top (gaggenau) that we like better than gas.
If one takes the time to learn & understand propane AND use it properly, it is as safe as anything else in an RV. In my opinion, definitely safer than lead-acid batteries. . . . ;)
160lbs is a 40gal tank.
160 lbs may equal 40 gallons but in our "portable" case it's four 7-1/2 gal. & Two 5 gal tanks. Easy to fill remotely and bring back to bus...
I have a 20gal frame mounted propane tank. I fill it once a year.
We have a built in 30 gal and a 10 gal portable. We use propane a lot and still only fill the 10 about every 4-6 months. We keep the built in for a reserve in case we can't get the portable filled on time because we forgot about it. It's mounted in the forward bay in a boxed off cabinet and well vented through the floor. Easy to get in and out. If we didn't have the portable, I'd probably want a larger builtin tank so we wouldn't have to move just for propane. Course, by the time we went through the 30 we probably should be moving :o
Will