1956 4104 671 cranks right up, the dip stick comes out a little. When I try to move it, I have to rev it up all the way and slip the clutch to get it to move.
This does not seem right to me. If I do not slip the clutch until I get it moving it will stall it out. Too me it would seem that I should just about let the clutch out and go. 671 is suppose to have about 700 or more pounds of torque.
Can some one please tell me how there 671 pulls away????
Do I have a problem????
Your problem sounds like the reverse is geared high so it is not torque, but ratio. How fast is your bus in reverse with the clutch fully engaged with the rpms low? I'm sure some 4104 owners can chine in hear on this one.
--Geoff
Are the brakes dragging? Also emergency brake, if it still has one. You don't have dd-3's? You are in first gear? If those aren't issues and you aren't belching black smoke...(emergency shutoff accidently engaged) you don't have a 3:55 rear end and are on level ground and fuel filters aren't plugged, then you could have a governor issue. On level ground, my 4104 would ease out by just slowly releasing the clutch. Would need some throttle at a traffic light.
Ok I'm going to anwser Geoff 1st. I hope you are not tring to make fun of me. I thought there was only two gear ratios that would fit in the 4104. The one I have is the one that lets you run about 66 or, 67 on the highway. I do not know the gear ratio. Reverse is the same as forward. Have to rev it to get it moving.
I still have the emergency brake lever, I do not think it works thou. Do not know if they are DD-3's. I am in first gear. No black smoke. Filter are not plugged.
Govenor issue HMMMMM. No tack on dash of course. Motor seems to rev up perrty good. Thank you for the questions and ideas. I'm gutting it now. Have given up chasing 1956 wiring. Going to rewire the whole bus. I would just like to figure this out before I dump a lot of money in it and have a motor that is failing.
The most common ratio was the 4.12. Also offered was 3.89 and 3.55. Sounds like from your speeds you have 4.12. If your clutch is in good shape you should be able to pull away in first with no problem on flat ground if your brakes are released all the way. In reverse, the trans ratio is close to the second gear ratio so backing up will require more expertise and clutch slipping and a little chatter is normal.
If have the 4:12 gears which is most common, top speed will be 68 or 69 if tires are 12:00x 22.5 or 11:00x22's less with any other size.The 3:55 gears will run about 77 or 78 mph at the expense of less startability in 1st or Reverse. This vehicle weighs 9 to 10 tons empty so it won't start out like a car or truck. Especially so since it only has a 4 speed and they sacrificed startability somewhat. No granny gear, but transmission is very durable and they experience few failures. BTW, reverse is about the equivalent or a little less of second gear, so it requires finesse backing up; more so if you are on a grade. Don't even bother trying to back up a steep grade or on soft ground. Quick way to burn the clutch. Majority of owners drove this model with great success. Very reliable model. If you are on soft ground, starting out will require some feathering of clutch and throttle to get moving,more of both in reverse.
So, I guess I will jack up the back of the bus ( not today) and rotate the drive shaft and see how many times it turns to one revolution of the tire. I had a mechanic help start it up when I first bought it. He has also been out once since then. Both times he told me the motor sounded real good. Certainly he was getting max rpm without moving the bus. Sure sounded like the 2150 rpm range. Instance max rpm, no real smoke. Lets say it does have the 3.55 ratio, would this cause the take off problem. I've only drove it once. When I moved from the the third owner to my house. I have moved it around the yard.
Orv
Going back to the start of your post, you said it cranks right up. what did you mean when you say "the dip stick comes out a little"? just curious.
We're here in Florida North of you near Ocala. We too have a 4104 we love driving for almost 40 years now. From the context - it doesn't sound like engine issue. How long has the bus been sitting since you last moved it? The "drag" you are explaining sounds like brakes are lock up or the parking brake could be dragging. Without getting under the bus the parking brake can be easily checked. If sitting for awhile rust could be an issue (on brakes or parking brake). When you say "If I do not slip the clutch until I get it moving it will stall out" - I need to ask when you do have it moving do you still feel the drag? or does it feel free wheeling. No one here is trying to make fun of anything - we'd really like to help a fellow bus nut especially a fellow 4104 bus nut!
I'm not sure if a 671 will start and rev with the engine shutdown flap tripped. I know mine won't shut down with the flap tripped and still produces some power. Maybe give that a look see. While we are at it, did some critters make a nest in the air intake and now the suction has pulled into a tight spot ?
Even if you had a 355 rear end, unless you are in soft sand or spongy grass - on the flat with hard surface it should roll away easier than your saying... Have you always felt this "drag" you are experiencing on all the moves you mentioned?
On hard level ground in neutral, two can push coach to check dragging brakes.
Thank you dtcerrato: The dip stick has no resistance in the hole. If it was upside down it would fall out. Moves out just a little. I would be more concerend about this as a motor problem of some sort if it wern't for the it being so loose. Thought I would throw that out as a fact thou. Bus has been sitting about 6 month since last move, but has been like this taking off since I bought it. I do not think the buses brake are sticking. When moving it, once I get it going it will roll perty easy. I do not belive it is a sticking brake. "Free Wheeling". I just wanted other opions. I will make sure of gearing because the third owner and man who converted it said he had changed the gear ratio.
zubzub: I will check that out "Critters" is a definite posiblity.
dtcerrato: Soft grass to start with but good dirt / shell sock road and yes I have had this drag issue from the begining.
chessie4905: This weekend I'll get one of my buddy's to come over and we will try and push it. For some reason this idea apeals to me. It is sitting in the driveway now. Asphalted.
Thanks everyone, I going to finsh the tear down and get the lights working. That should not cost much. Then on to the problem. Time is not an issue for me right now. Money is.
My 4104 takes off easily with no throttle input at all off idle on most flat ground, sounds like you are on your way to a seriously fried clutch using it that way. Like most have said here something is either dragging badly or the engine is not producing torque with the governor properly at low rpm.
I always felt that it should just take off. 700 or so pounds of torque and only 20,000 total weight. I'm going to have to check it out. Clutch is good now and I do not want to hurt it. Thanks for your input also. All input is welcome.
Don't worry about the loose dipstick as long as it's the inner piece & not the outside unit that plumbs to the block. Our has been real loose for many decades. Have you checked the tranny fluid? I mentioned brake cause both my parking brake and in a different time the both front brakes the anchor pin that the shoes pivot on were so rusted that not even the brake chambers would move them when the shoes froze snugly to the drum. That's pretty fresh in my mind of not too long ago. The bus sat near a job site in the MS Delta for six months of really humid & wet stuff... Just a thought.
The diff ratio is sometimes stamped on the end of the pinion shaft. Clean things real good and shine a bright light on it and see. 3.55 was not a real popular ratio, mostly used on Trailways divisions in the SW etc. where there were long flat roads and no hills. I have the 3.55's (out of a 4104) AND the high speed trans in my Silverside and I can still start on the flat with no problem. Can't back up on a grade though.
Too much work to read end of pinion shaft. Jack up one set of duals and have someone rotate them exactly two turns while you count revolutions on driveshaft or driveshaft brake drum through transmission door. Mark tire and drum/ shaft with chalk.
6-71 with N65 injectors-228hp and 600lb/ft torque. N60 injectors-210hp and 550lb/ft torque. N70 injectors advanced timing-238hp and 660lb/ft torque. Maximum out of the 6-71 is turbocharged and aftercooled with 7G80 injectors-300hp and 900lb/ft torque. Good Luck, TomC
My 4 speed 04 is just like yours. It has the tall gear. on most state highways I just run along in 3rd.
The answer is to learn to drive it that way just be careful where you go and stop.
It is that way as I was planning on a upgrade like boomer has. A different animal for a 6-71.
But I got a deal in Huggy and solved all my startability problems.
uncle ned
Heard that Uncle Ned.
Orv please keep us posted on your progress.
10-4 on keeping everybody posted. Nothing but rain here in south Florida and more commimg. Just look out the window at it now. "The Bus" not the rain.
65 and sunny this morning in L.A.
Sunshine here today also Loxahatchee FL. Of course the weatherman said it would rain. I guess he has a 50% chance of being right or wrong. 90 with some sort of thing being 100. I do not understand the thing. For years and years they just gave you the temp and humidity.