Everyone knows that you can't dependably back up with your toad attached. That does not stop me from trying though. Being sometimes too lazy to unhook to get myself out of a situation, I have been successful a couple of times backing up a bit. There seems to be the best chance of success if you are on level ground and just want to go back straight a very short distance. I have been foolhardy enough to attempt it on non-level ground and recently damaged (read as destroyed) my tow bar doing so. I was probably lucky that I did not damage the Jeep. Anyway, the thought occurred to me that there might be a reasonably dependable way to accomplish this feat and wanted to see if anyone had tried it or had opinions of the subject. Of course, I know that people on this board rarely have opinions, but why not ask?
What if one could ask a competent driver to get in the toad, start it up, put it in reverse, and gently try to back up sort of pulling the bus while the driver in the bus would have it in reverse and give it just enough fuel or brake to let it be pulled back? It seems to be that going back in a straight line should be relatively easy. Other maneuvers would require some coordination but still be doable. What do you think?
Oh, I wanted to be the first to post to preclude the answer that one should not get into those situations to begin with!
I have also backed up a toad straight back a few feet (usually at a fuel stop), but my Blue Ox is simple to disconnect or hook up as long as I am straight. I mean the bus and toad.
--Geoff
P.S. I am in back surgery recovery so bear my numerous posts. I want to be working in my shop soon.
Consider a nicer enclosed or open wheeled car trailer with the longest tongue practical. The trailer wheel track can be as wide as the Bus Conversion. Brightly colored corner markers or running lights also help.
This way one can see the corners of the trailer from the drivers seat using the rear view mirrors. With todays available cameras much better. Then practice backing up with the car trailer hooked on. Lots and lots of practice.
When you can do figure eights backing up and back down around corners without issue then you are good to go. I for one profoundly do not understand why ANYONE would want a rig that you can not back up in emergencies.
Not good. Darwin. Just me. Respectfully.
I've often wondered if my wife was back there holding the steering wheel ... but never tried it.
Get a rear view camera to assist in doing it.
The caster on a tow vehicle keeps you from backing up with a tow bar for any distance without someone at the steering wheel.Lin you are not the first ;D BTDT and have the bent tow bars to prove it I don't even try it anymore.if there was a way to reverse the caster like you can do on some trailers with front steering you could back up for miles
Lin we do it from time to time. Wife gets in Jeep and steers or holds it straight and I watch in Camera. Don't have to start it just have to watch the tow bar and only steer slowly as needed. It works. ;D
I bought a car hauler 20',102" wide enclosed trailer and had it painted to match the bus. You are adding another 3500 lbs. or so with the trailer plus the weight of the toad. Not good for tight cornering or fuel mileage. I also have an 18' open steel deck trailer, same problems.
--Geoff
Backing up with a tow bar. Ain't suppose to do that. ;D
I've never tried it. Would surely mash something up if I did, but in an emergency, and I use that word heavily, what if you set the wheels straight and lock the steering column? Would that help? At least in a straight line. There is no way DW would ever get in the toad (Mini) and be behind the bus while I'm backing it up. She knows better than to play 'speed bump' :o
I just had to chime in here to give Lin some more reading material ;)
Will
Done it and tried it many times. Problem is, the hitch on our coach is lower than the truck towbar so when backing up it lifts the front tires of the truck enough that you can't steer it. So I don't do that anymore. I just unhook
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MD man, I couldn't agree more. Nevertheless, thanks to the marvels of GPS I found myself having been dropped off the Hwy one off ramp too soon on a hilly, sandy and narrow private drive which ended abruptly at a closed gate after a "U" turn and a bunch of ornamental boulders. If I'd disconnected the toad I'd have lost it down the hill. At that point neither the wife (not along) nor the rear camera would have helped me. I spent an hour and 40 minutes getting turned around enough so I thought I'd be able to drive up and out through the landscaping of boulders and cactus. It worked though I probably owe someone--It wasn't me who ran over the mail box----really!
Jack
Quote from: Scott & Heather on June 03, 2017, 06:38:35 PM
Done it and tried it many times. Problem is, the hitch on our coach is lower than the truck towbar so when backing up it lifts the front tires of the truck enough that you can't steer it. So I don't do that anymore. I just unhook
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Scott not good if it is more than 3 inches off level. If you stop hard on the road it could do a wheel stand. They make compensator raised hitches for the bus. Amazon has them "Raise/Lower 2" hitch"
I have used the toad ( Suzuki Sidekick 4 door) to pull the coach out of the fuel island when it wouldn't start, and push it out of the way. Lots of snickers and giggles as the DW climbed behind the steering wheel of MudFlap, but the giggles promptly stopped when it worked just perfectly. She just held the wheel straight and reversed....
A David and Goliath kind of moment.
Of course, perfectly level asphalt helped immensely. ;)
Have you tried to attach a bungee cord around steering wheel and connect ends to left and right bottom of driver's seat? It will resist the wheel trying to turn and help keep it centered.
We have done it with my wife in the toad trying to keep it going back in the straight line on completely level ground. I was wondering if changing the dynamic from the toad being pushed backwards to it pulling would make a difference and allow some more maneuverability. I suppose now that I have my new plate and tow bar, I could give it a try someday.
OK, I didn't want to post anything for fear you guys will think I'm nuts, but I guess we are all nuts, that's why we are here. Lin, Yes you can if you have a steering lock (or your wife) and a stronger tow bar. Before I had my Tahoe I pulled my pickup. It's a full size 4x4 extended cab long box Chevy. Total length of coach & toad 64 1/2'. I backed it up many times, once after making a wrong turn on a dead end, for about a 1/4 mile. I always worried that the steering lock would break. Never had a problem.
I tow on a dolly so I can and have backed up 20 - 30 feet, but the thing will still jack-knife it it gets half a chance. The problem with backing a toad is that the hitch locks the front of the car in place relative to the bus hitch, and as soon as the wheels turn to try to steer they try to move the front of the car left or right. So very straight is the only way it will work even with a driver.
Brian
after 2 separate front end alignments and 1 pretzel tow bar I now use a light weight all aluminum 17 ' car trailer ( 1250 lbs empty ) oh and the fact G M will void my warranty for flat towing my colorado . I now have zero problems backing up any time I want to + I now have real brakes on the toad ( trailer )
is it a better way ??? yes it tows way better then flat towing and no you need to find a place to put it when you get there
dave
Quote from: sledhead on June 04, 2017, 05:15:00 AM
G M will void my warranty for flat towing my colorado.
dave
I have a Colorado and it is made for towing 4 down. That is because it is 4wd. You just push the high 2wd and 4wd buttons at the same time and the drive train goes into neutral and disconnects the speedometer. It also unlocks the steering and you can take the key out. Very nice, and no fuses to pull. I had a older Sonoma 2wd and had to install a driveline disconnect and leave the key in the steering so it would not lock.
--Geoff
We have the same setup in our 4wd Sierra. It's really convenient. Did the driveshaft disconnect on our 91 4wd Explorer. It was ok too "after" the expense of drive line disconnect... We love the Sierra except for it being an anchor - we pull it anyway, the trade off makes it worth while...
MC8 with a Suzuki grand vitara behind, piece of orange plastic pipe across the roof racks sticking out about 6" wider than the bus each side to use as a more precise guide than the backup camera, and wife in the toad holding the steering wheel.
You have to regard the toad as one of those pig trailers some dump trucks tow with no turntable on the front so some gentle slewing of the toad is required to get it out of line a bit. Once the curve is established just follow it around with the bus steering using the conduit end to keep it constant. Changing the curve puts strain on the towbar, but constant curve does not.. Can gently increase or decrease curve by slewing again but can use the conduit ends as guides to keep the curve under control.
I've done a 23-point turn in a forest clearing that way to reverse direction (in pouring rain which is why I chose not to do it the easy way by unhooking the toad).
If you want to go straight back then still have to follow the same procedure but of course no slewing required. Try it without holding or locking the steering wheel and guaranteed you will break something
I find the easiest way to back up with a toad is to put the bus in neutral and release the air brakes and go back to the Toad and pull the bus back with the Toad. But it helps to have someone steering the bus. Actually I haven't tried this myself but if someone would try this and post a video, we could all learn from it. Cliff? ;D
Even if I had a smart phone app to back up with a toad, I'd probably just disconnect because I am still alive & able to do it and not that lazy - yet!
Gary, That is exactly what I was asking about in the original post-- pulling the bus back with the toad rather than the bus pushing the toad. The only variation I added was that the bus driver could help a little keeping the bus moving to make the pull easier on the toad. My question was whether that could work. I think that it theoretically could but I have had other theories before.
Quote from: Lin on June 04, 2017, 05:44:40 PM
Gary, That is exactly what I was asking about in the original post-- pulling the bus back with the toad rather than the bus pushing the toad. The only variation I added was that the bus driver could help a little keeping the bus moving to make the pull easier on the toad. My question was whether that could work. I think that it theoretically could but I have had other theories before.
Lin, theoretically this should work fine. You just need a competent driver in the bus drivers seat (preferably a bus driver) to know when the bus is rolling out of control and can steer it in the correct direction and to be aware of the buses surroundings so they don't take out a gas pump or something in the process.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on June 03, 2017, 07:15:34 PM
Scott not good if it is more than 3 inches off level. If you stop hard on the road it could do a wheel stand. They make compensator raised hitches for the bus. Amazon has them "Raise/Lower 2" hitch"
As I recall, ideally the bus receiver should be a few inches higher than toad (towed) connections. If Scott's bus pulls the toad front wheels up backing up it is set up wrong (too low). With my Sonoma 2wd I had to use a 6" drop, with my Canyon 4wd I use no drop.
--Geoff