We found a nice GMC with what seems to be real good basics like those listed in the Subject line but the interior needs to be gutted and redone and the exterior fixed up. So, my question is, what's the value of that good infrastructure? The engine has a fairly resent rebuild. The batteries, plumbing and wiring seem in good shape. Tires will get us to the tire store for replacement.
Sure appreciate your thoughts and wisdom here. We spent a couple years traveling in a C class RV but are total newbies to bus conversions.
So, you want us to tell you the value of what you are thinking of buying? I'll leave this one to Don F.
GMC what? 4104, 450?. 410 03, 4106.........Unless the drive train is certified by a major company or someone who can rebuild and proved they know what they are doing as well as receipts from good parts etc, etc.. They aren't worth much. Tires alone are 3,000.00 on up single rear axle and if its a Scenic that raises that price by two to 4 more tires at 500.00 each. So a little more info would be good and then still won't know much more....They are worth what someone is willing to buy it for. ;D
Yeah...sorry about that. I wasn't trying to be obscure, just unsure.
Its at 1961 GM Coach Conversion. I'm guessing a 4106 by comparing images online.
The drive train is probably a good thing to know about :)
My main question, regardless if for this coach or another is, is there a ballpark figure of what it costs to put the infrastructure in? The bare bones parts of turning a bus into an RV - such as plumbing it for bathrooms and sinks, installing batteries and running wires and for fixtures/outlets, a heater and thermostat, and whatever else I'm not aware of. Done by a professional, what might one expect to pay?
Many thanks!
Make sure you aren't getting into a city bus with no baggage compartments. As far as cost, you can figure on 10,000 dollars to do a nice interior, OF COURSE, your taste in the quality of the materials and components will raise this figure. If you want to do an economy job, money can be saved. Ask Zephod.This is assuming you do all your own work. I'm not figuring generator, tires, brakes, glass, suspension, or air conditioning. If you are going to have some one else do all the work, quadruple that number.
30K to 80K if someone else does it and that is the basics today....
Welcome to the forum, Bobi. They're not trying to scare you off or discourage you, but it's a fact that everyone learns eventually. It's not cheap to build an RV on a bus chassis and it's even more expensive to maintain said chassis. But once you get a bus in your blood, there's no kicking the habit. We're all nuts or we wouldn't be here :D.
Good luck in whichever way you move on this bus and remember, this forum is a wealth of information when it comes to keeping these old beasts moving.
Will
I've built everything in my bus by hand by myself. Some sniff at my choice of materials but... it works...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170523/df39f406e4ef704a47ce4e7d9c127826.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170523/f4eea18e670fa0be8044cdf260c297da.jpg)
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The cost will depend on your taste, the quality of materials & the quality of the craftsmanship.
Some have used shipwrights to build their coach $$$$$$.
Some have used a handyman $
Some, a good local cabinet shop $$ to $$$$$
The GM buses have a left hand turning engine, almost everything else utilizes a right hand turning engine like the class 8 trucks. So, service down the road will have fewer options.
1 -- Do you LOVE the body style & can't can't walk away with out looking back several times?
-OR-
2 -- Do you want a motor home & this one is cheap?
If 1, you are so done, since you aren't going to get any rest, you may as well dive in & start throwing money at it. ;D
If 2, STOP, take a deep breath & do some reflection as to what you really want - then begin a new search to find what you really want.
For me it was both & I spent 10 years collecting parts & busses. Then, one day we stumbled onto a ready to use older motorhome. We bought it & are selling off all the bus stuff.
Good luck !
Hi Bobi and welcome,
When you say "found one" does that mean you have NOT purchased it? If not, think first how much free cash and time and energy you have for such a project. As described, even if the basic motor is fine, there are many other mechanical and electrical systems that always need something. Remember, we are talking about a mechanical relic a half century old.
If you have NOT purchased it and do really want a bus conversion, then check your budget and I'd say if you have 10k-12k you can find a basic conversion in decent shape. Between 15k-18k you can find a nice conversion in good shape. All are likely dated interiors but solid running coaches.
If you already own it, get a professional bus mechanic to do a full survey. That way you will have a good idea where you are starting. You will be throwing much money into to project, so at least minimize throwing good money into the hole.
Good luck
This is great information. Thank you! You've given me good food for thought. I've been thinking I could certainly simplify my life by buying something reasonably priced and ready to go. We did that years ago and spent a wonderful 1.5 yrs traveling Mexico with our young children.
But, I didn't design my original question very well from the very beginning and confused things. :P
What I'm wondering is what is the cost of all the stuff you don't see? Like the electrical wiring, fresh and grey water plumbing, battery relays and , connections, converters and all those other things I'm unaware of. That's what I'd want to hire out. I think I can get a reasonable idea on building out the space (I have some experience there) but am totally clueless to the realities and costs of all the underneath stuff.
Am I saying this right? Does this make sense?
Thanks again,
Bobi
Jump in the water is fine, the interior stuff wiring, plumbing and for mention stuff are all fairly reasonable in price and you can do 95% of it yourself just buy Dave Galey's or George Meyers books from this site.
You are not going to spend big dollars till you start buying new diesel generators,inverters, solar and the big AGM battery banks.You can convert one and make it as complicated or as simple as you choose.
Damn where was this site when I bailed into a rusty old Eagle to convert ;D ;D ;D,seriously buy a good sound bus for a foundation,(running gear) and go for it if you can keep a class C going you can do it.Everyone here knows I am not a GM fan but those are good buses if the maintenance was done over the years
I'm glad you understand that the "little things" will cost a lot. For example, my four tanks (made by Ronco Plastics in Tustin CA) were $2.50 per gallon, so there's $1000 just for them. I have a solar system that has cost almost the same as the bus itself - 4/0 cable is $4 a foot, and Blue Sea switches are not cheap (they're designed for the boating crowd). Over the eight or nine years I've been working on the bus I've spent well over $1000 just on miscellaneous bolts/nuts/washers/plumbing fittings/hardware/etc.etc. at my local industrial hardware supplier who's still MUCH cheaper than Grainger and the big box stores. So, what I'm saying, but you seem to be aware of this already, is that the little stuff is a significant proportion of the overall cost, regardless whether you make things yourself or you hire someone to do it for you. If the latter, factor in $100 an hour for labor, at which point it's usually no longer cost-effective to pay someone to convert a bus. Besides, where's the fun in that? Bus conversion is, at least to me, a completely hands-on process, but I'll still spend about $20K before I have a usable conversion, and that's excluding the initial cost of the bus itself (which is actually the cheapest part of the whole thing!).
John
Bobi -
Welcome to the madness! Busnut fever in incurable, but it can be controlled. . . Sometimes! :o
This coach you're considering - can you post the VIN? That way we can give you a better idea of what you're dealing with, as well as identifying it properly for you and providing a little history along the way. Also, if you can update your profile info to something similar to mine below (1st name, home/base city/state as a minimum), we can better direct you to vendors and service facilities that can help you. Simply click on the Profile tab above. When the next page opens, click on the "Forum Profile Info" option in the LH column and follow the prompts from there. Thanks. (Added bonus: You might discover another busnut nearby, too!)
As a general answer to your general question: It's the nickels and dimes that add up to a whole lot more than the big buck items. For example, perhaps you need new house system batteries and cables. $200 each for the batteries and, as John mentioned, $4/ft for the correct size cable. If you need twenty feet of cable to go between the batteries and the breaker panel, there's an additional $100 between the two cables (+ & -) plus the connection fittings, tie-downs, etc.
It's been said over and over, and makes even more sense in today's market, to spend a little more up front to get the newest coach you can afford that's "ready to roll" and only requires minimum renovations, than to buy a cheap coach or a shell and start over or from scratch.
"It's easy to buy a coach, but much more difficult to sell a mistake!"
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
I keep thinking if you had to ask that question you aren't ready for the shock of what it costs to own and maintain a completed conversion, much less the cost of materials and time to convert one.
Fuel, insurance, repairs, tires, batteries, routine maintenance, etc can be breathtaking.
Good Luck, the handier you are as an diesel mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician,hvac,general contractor, etc. the less it will cost you.
PS buy a real nice tool box.
"Infrastructure" is generally streets, bridges, and underground utilities. I've never heard it used for bus conversions. Anyway, installing the basic systems can vary in cost depending on the materials used. I used boat wiring which costs more than house wiring. Some people want conduit pipe which is more labor intensive. Pex water lines cost more than PVC, sewer hose costs more than ABS piping and fittings. I never kept track of my expenses or time spent installing the basics, but I can add that you need a floor plan of some sort to start as well as making a decision on where to put the tanks and wiring center.
Since the bus you are considering already has been converted, you may be limited to the existing floor plan or some redo's.
--Geoff
Welcome to the most infecting hobby ever!
In all seriousness, if you find a coach you love...as long as the engine and "bones" are sound...don't sweat it. Plumbing and electricity are easy. You'll need to be mindful if you buy a previously converted coach of what the prior owner or owners have done.
No matter the coach...GET THE BOOKS for it. You'll need them to trace wiring and determine the best way to fix something.
The things I believe have been the most valuable are the wonderful advice you'll get here...and the feeling of finishing a project you didn't think you could do. You can...trust me.
The only other mindset you need is one of patience. My dad had a little statue of Yosemite Sam. The caption under it said... "Patience my a**, I'm going out to kill something". But after converting three buses, even he learned that it takes time...and patience :)
My costs... I'm not 100% sure but this is what I think I spent....
Interior lighting... several $10 LED lanterns run off D cell batteries. The batteries are $2 a set from the dollar store the batteries last a good long time.
Waste water... two 15 gallon u-line drums slung under the bus. Those cost $8 each. The pipe work cost about $3. What cost more were the angles etc. I've used Pex for venting the barrels but the Pex was salvage.
Fresh water - several $14 jerry cans
The 120v system. 3 sockets, a main breaker and a sub panel plus wiring so about $150. No generator. I just plug in when needed.
Solar. I have 2 x 10W panels that cost $30 each that produce maybe 5W between them. Solar imho is oversold BS. The panels go via a $10 charge controller to a $10 5AH battery and run two $2 CPU fans for ventilation.
Cooking... a $20 all in one cooktop and $3 butane cylinders.
Refrigeration - a $30 cooler powered by.... ice.
Shower base - a plastic feed tray from Tractor Supply fir $20
Shower unit - a $20 battery powered pump and shower head and a $15 cooler to hold warm water for showering.
Toilet - a $2.50 bucket from Walmart with a $2.50 lid, enclosed in a wooden structure I built.
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You all are fabulous - thank you!
We're still new enough to the adventure so still all over the map on things. I'm presently smitten with transit buses with all those lovely windows and less inclined to a vintage bus unless someone has already upgraded the whole bloomin' thing. Except the Buffalo bus. I do love the look of those. :)
When the time comes, if we have a good, solid layout planned where would we look to have the plumbing/wiring/etc put in? Ideally, I'd like to work with a person who knows this stuff and learn by being the grunt/helper.
Quote from: Bobi on May 24, 2017, 07:19:17 PM
You all are fabulous - thank you!
We're still new enough to the adventure so still all over the map on things. I'm presently smitten with transit buses with all those lovely windows and less inclined to a vintage bus unless someone has already upgraded the whole bloomin' thing. Except the Buffalo bus. I do love the look of those. :)
When the time comes, if we have a good, solid layout planned where would we look to have the plumbing/wiring/etc put in? Ideally, I'd like to work with a person who knows this stuff and learn by being the grunt/helper.
too many windows are much harder to keep comfortably cool...
Here's a link to Holding tanks. Pex is a good fresh water pipe that can be cut easily and they make fittings you just put on a ring push in the fitting and sqweeze the ring with the pex tool. You will need a water pump to get it to the faucets etc. There your starter.
The internet will be your friend. Put in RV holding tanks, RV/ Marine water pumps, RV electric systems etc..... ;D
http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/4700/ronco-tanks-tustin (http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/4700/ronco-tanks-tustin)
Dave5Cs ;D
Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 24, 2017, 10:13:11 PM
Here's a link to Holding tanks. Pex is a good fresh water pipe that can be cut easily and they make fittings you just put on a ring push in the fitting and sqweeze the ring with the pex tool. You will need a water pump to get it to the faucets etc. There your starter.
The internet will be your friend. Put in RV holding tanks, RV/ Marine water pumps, RV electric systems etc..... ;D
http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/4700/ronco-tanks-tustin (http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/4700/ronco-tanks-tustin)
Dave5Cs ;D
Water pump? Not if you carry your water in jerry cans and have a jug fir ready to use water.
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Zephod your cave man style bus works well for you. But many of us prefer a little more domestication in our coaches (especially the wifey types)
;D BK ;D
What's cool about the community is the vast range of what is defined as a bus conversion.
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Quote from: B_K on May 25, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Zephod your cave man style bus works well for you. But many of us prefer a little more domestication in our coaches (especially the wifey types)
;D BK ;D
I'm working on an air intake right now for part 2 of my ventilation system. That's taking forever as I'm having so many problems with my welding helmet which is too dark. I just bought a variable darkness auto darkening helmet to resolve that.
My goal is to get the bus livable during the summer months. It's already livable the rest of the year. Once that's achieved, plumbing from an external supply is possible as is a gas cooktop plumbed into a gas cylinder set on the ground outside. I'm not a great fan of putting stuff underneath or on top of the bus. I might put a solar plugin so that I can plug in extra panels placed wherever (not permanently attached).
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Quote from: Zephod on May 28, 2017, 10:42:26 AM
I'm working on an air intake right now for part 2 of my ventilation system. That's taking forever as I'm having so many problems with my welding helmet which is too dark. I just bought a variable darkness auto darkening helmet to resolve that.
My goal is to get the bus livable during the summer months. It's already livable the rest of the year. Once that's achieved, plumbing from an external supply is possible as is a gas cooktop plumbed into a gas cylinder set on the ground outside. I'm not a great fan of putting stuff underneath or on top of the bus. I might put a solar plugin so that I can plug in extra panels placed wherever (not permanently attached).
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Zephod--. What kind of welder are you using?
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 28, 2017, 12:00:47 PM
Zephod--. What kind of welder are you using?
--Geoff
Harbor Freight $90 stuck welder. It's been good so far. If it hangs on for me to complete the project I'll be happy. Otherwise I'll have to silver solder everything.
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Quote from: Zephod on May 29, 2017, 01:27:55 AM
Harbor Freight $90 stuck welder. It's been good so far. If it hangs on for me to complete the project I'll be happy. Otherwise I'll have to silver solder everything.
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I didn't know you had power! With 120ac you could pickup a good, used A/C roof top unit to cool your bus down. Maybe a TV set, etc....
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 29, 2017, 08:39:25 AM
I didn't know you had power! With 120ac you could pickup a good, used A/C roof top unit to cool your bus down. Maybe a TV set, etc....
--Geoff
It's shore power. I put in a 30A line into the main panel.
While AC would be nice, I'm working with what I have. I'm running a minimal solar setup to power extraction fans and an induction fan... when I complete my air intake box (shown)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/a7926c4b5bbc5fe9acf151e3b23c1264.jpg)
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I originally bought my bus in 1993 from the guy that bought it from Portland, Or Metro for $4,000. He had already taken out the seats, but decided it was too big a job and I bought it. Before bringing down from Or, I had a mechanic change the wheel bearings from grease to oil, change the rear end ratio from 5.57 to 4.56 (4.11 wasn't easy to find), install Jake brakes, increase injectors from N55 to N65 (270hp and 675lb/ft torque to 300hp and 800lb/ft torque), change 12R-22.5 to 11R-24.5 (my tires and wheels from another truck). It was no money exchanged-I traded a '79 GMC Astro with 6V-92TA and 7spd for the work.
Then the fun began. I ultimately had everything in the engine compartment rebuilt or replaced, transmission rebuilt, new air bags, air steering converted to Sheppard hydraulic. What was a $4,000 bus to buy cost about $100,000 over the last 24 years. Still-cheaper than a sticks and staples motorhome. How many 1977 motorhomes are still on the road? Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on May 31, 2017, 07:27:19 AM
I originally bought my bus in 1993 from the guy that bought it from Portland, Or Metro for $4,000. He had already taken out the seats, but decided it was too big a job and I bought it. Before bringing down from Or, I had a mechanic change the wheel bearings from grease to oil, change the rear end ratio from 5.57 to 4.56 (4.11 wasn't easy to find), install Jake brakes, increase injectors from N55 to N65 (270hp and 675lb/ft torque to 300hp and 800lb/ft torque), change 12R-22.5 to 11R-24.5 (my tires and wheels from another truck). It was no money exchanged-I traded a '79 GMC Astro with 6V-92TA and 7spd for the work.
Then the fun began. I ultimately had everything in the engine compartment rebuilt or replaced, transmission rebuilt, new air bags, air steering converted to Sheppard hydraulic. What was a $4,000 bus to buy cost about $100,000 over the last 24 years. Still-cheaper than a sticks and staples motorhome. How many 1977 motorhomes are still on the road? Good Luck, TomC
WOW! That's enough to scare any new busnutter off to the hinterlands. lol
Quote from: windtrader on May 31, 2017, 12:21:49 PMWOW! That's enough to scare any new busnutter off to the hinterlands. lol
Yeah, congratulations for getting it done so much cheaper than so many of us, Tom.
Or you can do like I did about 15 years ago. Find a old camping trailer cheap and strip all the good stuff out. Water heater ,furnace, bathroom fixtures and many more.
uncle ned
Yes I considered buying a couple of old RV's to use the old appliances. But-I guess I'm just eccentric-I wanted my bus to have new appliances that only I used. Also to have new warranties. Just my way. Good Luck, TomC
We bought our bus in 2004 or there about partially converted and in round numbers have spent a little more than Tom has. This included a repower to an L10 cummins with a ZF transmission. It also includes one set of tires (new steers and six used) and one set of tires all new. All the fuel we used. Rebuilding the transmission. One set of tanks that we didn't like so we got a second set. All the appliances, batteries, inverter, roadside assistance, two house water pumps, radiator rebuilds, oversized transmission cooler, and a bunch of stuff I have not even thought of. We put about 5 thousand miles on every year some years more. So overall somewhere less than 8,000 a year all in including the cost of the bus. So for about 1.50 a mile we have all the luxury of home anywhere we go even if there is no hotel available and IF there is a hotel available we don't have to schlep our stuff inside. We know who slept in the bed last night and if the shower isn't clean we know who to blame. Our food and drink is what we want when we want and we don't pay resort prices. It always seems like a bargain to and we have fun being on the road.
Melbo
Whew! I'm alternately (or simultaneously) excited, dumbfounded and generally staggered by the enormity of what I don't yet know.
You comments are awesome and most welcomed. Thank you.