Third trip out this year and 1991 86,000 mile 8V92TA is blowing oil out of the air box drains big time. Bought new check valves and installed , nothing wrong with the old ones after I got them off. Some Folks said in the archive section here said drive it hard and clear it out. Drove the pizz out of it this past few days , well 400 miles and at 2100 rpm's and it didn't help. Bought this coach over 6 years ago with 50,000 miles on it and didn't leak any up until this year. Used a couple gallons in 200 miles or what was in the reservoir tank. Stewart Stevenson in San Antonio bound next week to check it out unless somebody knows of a good mechanic in the Austin Texas area with 2 strokes and Those are kinda like Unicorns. Don't know if it hurt, but the last 2 oil changes at Prevost Houston they dumped 9 gallons of oil in and I didn't catch it until halfway home and it was like now, all over back of bus. Outside motor looks like it always has, bright silver and no leaks. Always something.
Did they by chance use mutigrade oil?
No, always Delo 100 40 weight. Prevost changes every 8500 miles. I'm second owner of coach. Bought it with 50,000 total miles on coach. I have put 36,000 miles on it over 6 years. 86,000 now. Figure all rubber in and on motor has gotten stiff and breaking down. Changed antifreeze a couple years ago again at Prevost. They have done all maintenance since I've owned it.. Never hot. Just started using/blowing oil out air box drains and a lot. . Motor looks clean and silver with no leaks on outside. Have been around it since new from Prevost and Cole Conversions.
I'll be following this. I'm in San Antonio and would love to see your bus when it's here...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You bet Scott. We're over here , or the bus barn is in Kingsland Tx. about 60 west of Austin. Gonna try and get it in next week some time will holler when I do. This is what mine looks like running down the road.(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FPrevost%2FIMAG0109.jpg&hash=0f22c1d2cb2900296fa542ba68293d79792f94c2) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Prevost/IMAG0109.jpg.html)
Did you get it hot on last trip or before trip?
I will be interested to see what the out come of this will be as I am having the same problem.Never noticed a problem until I had the oil changed at a local truck repair shop and they put multigrade oil in it .Did not stay in there .Did not put many miles on the bus with this stuff in there .I have had two different respected Detroit repair men tell me the same thing ,drive it hard .I have done this ,plus replace the drain valves .Now,mine does not leak while driving it ,only at idling .
Never hot. Does run about 190 to 195 degrees most of the time on back gauge in summer. Watch those gauges like a hawk after reading all the problems with heat on these things. Talked to Tommy at SS down in San Antone and he says he has a 2 stroke cat down their. Still a few down south of their running in the oil patch on some of the oilfield equipment. Still runs like a clock with no issues other than the spitting oil out the tubes. Just started after sitting a few months in a storage barn after I sold the place last fall and moved it to it's new barn here.. Mine has the back in a oil sheen and think it does it running down road to use that much. Reading/thinking about problems, maybe blower seals or god forbid rings. Motor has 86,000 easy miles since new in 1991. Knew the coach before and the Old Gent that owned it. I'm thinking just a old engine. Rubber does get brittle. Thinking about a $25,000 rebuild :o and think my bus would make a good deer blind or camp house without the engine. LOL.
To add insult to injury, AC light on dash is lit up coming home and have a freon leak in OTR system. Charged it (added a few pounds of R134) before I let out. Maybe a nice Old Winnebago is in the cards.
26 years, 86,000 miles. I have 20 years and 75,000 miles on an out of frame rebuild. I don't leak oil out the air boxes but I had a piston break. It is quite possible your oil rings got weak from age. I used to work on/rebuild a lot of diesel engines in boats that had hardly any hours on them and the rings would lose their tension because of age and low usage. I doubt it's your blower seals if it spins okay. Pulling the turbo off and looking for a LOT of oil on the lobes and turbo outlet would answer that. A cheaper fix with those low miles would be to pull the pistons leaving the liners in place. Hone the clyinders, put new rings on the pistons. And put it back together and go. No warranty doing it this way.
--Geoff
Yeah we will see. Gonna take it in to Stewart Stevenson as I'm still not set up to work on anything in my new shop. Still waiting on Electric. Tools and boxes still at ranch I sold. Have a temp set up to get the 50 amp in to bus. Have a trip or 2 planned in the upcoming 2 weeks and hope SS can get it in and fixed. Who knows. After this will do my own stuff. Heck used to build the motors for our drag cars and these don't look to intimidating other than bigger parts. At the prices some folks charge to work on them a guy can mess up a time or 2 and still beat the shops deal. Can check the tubo/blower seal deal pretty easy. Might do that. Thing still runs good with no misses but guess a compression check will figure out the rings. It's only money , right??
A compression test will not tell you if you have weak oil rings. It will only give you the compression rings reading. You can have good compression and bad oil rings, which is the norm for the 92 Series engine.
--Geoff
I'm actually here right now at SS getting some parts. Lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just got back in to house (Granite Shoals Tx.) Think I'll drive the puppy until she blows. Put about 3 gallons in it, 2 in the reservoir tank. Make a good deer blind. Wifey said she ain't going for a newer model. Heck she didn't know about this one until i brought in home. Threatened me, and I'm still here. Just a little lighter in the pocket. ;D Heck Scott if I head down that way for AC work will holler. Love to meet you folks.
Don't want to lose track of this thread. Hoping it's a simple fix for you.
Quote from: muldoonman on May 19, 2017, 05:33:03 PM
Just got back in to house (Granite Shoals Tx.) Think I'll drive the puppy until she blows. Put about 3 gallons in it, 2 in the reservoir tank. Make a good deer blind. Wifey said she ain't going for a newer model. Heck she didn't know about this one until i brought in home. Threatened me, and I'm still here. Just a little lighter in the pocket. ;D Heck Scott if I head down that way for AC work will holler. Love to meet you folks.
"Make a good deer blind". What does that mean? Is your engine smoking now? You have a serious problem using that much oil. Maybe you have a broken piston.
--Geoff
Out in the country (at least around here) you tend to find, if you walk about in the appropriate places at the appropriate time of year, the oddest contraptions, buildings, tree houses stashed in the woods. One sits in them, the deer can't see you, and you shoot them. I can see a non-operating Prevost being towed out to the back 40 and becoming a heck of a club-house/camp/cabin/deer blind... :) I've seen school buses doing exactly that. Sometimes it's by mistake. They drive out on a cold dry day, get parked, the weather warms up and it never moves again because it sank up to the frame because they parked on a frozen bog.
Brian
Quote from: Geoff on May 20, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
"Make a good deer blind". What does that mean? Is your engine smoking now? You have a serious problem using that much oil. Maybe you have a broken piston.
--Geoff
What Brian said, a term hunters use in Texas. Someplace to hide and shoot a deer with a 30.06. It ain't hunting in my book.
No, no smoke and still runs good with no miss. Good oil pressure at cruising speed. Gonna drive in down the first of week to Stewart Stevenson , San Antone for the skinning. Gotta be a problem as it just pukes oil out tubes, both sides when sitting and on High Idle.
Man, you are leaping into the jaws of a tiger. S&S is going to quote you for a complete overhaul at dealership prices. Don't let them dismantle the engine to the point that it's either take their estimate or have it towed out. Isn't there an independent shop around that do two strokes Detroits, or would swap one out?
--Geoff
Glen,drain a gal of oil just be sure it is not below the add mark and run it then check it,? have you ever cleaned the breather vents on the valve covers
I'm feeling like someone at prevost put multi weight in there
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think he left the valve open or the automatic fill on the oil reservoir has gone wacky over filling the engine with oil ;D
No on the multi grade oil. Take my on (Delo 100- 40 weight) and drop 3 cases on floor everytime in Prevost Shops and if I'm not there, after telling them start at 7 and check, they always dump it all. ( 9 gallons). They (Prevost) are the only ones that have ever touched this coach. Previous owner still had (2) 5 gallon buckets of the Delo 100 under coach when I bought it. Ran it down before add/L mark this time and it was still spiting when I pulled it in to shop on cardboard I just put under it. Breather tubes are clear on Valve covers. If I knew and have asked around don't know of any 2 stroke guys around here. Would drive to the end of the earth if I knew where one was. Don't need a overhaul, or at least total, as it runs good with no misses and good oil pressure. Dumped 2 gallons from reservoir into coach in Brownwood Tx. and drove the 125 miles to shop and put 1 gallon in there. It's always run at full mark and has never used any, maybe a quart or two between oil changes, Usually around 7000 miles for the level 3 at Prevost. Air breather is always changed then. Never take chances on those. Fuel filters and Racors also.
Motor in question and No, it's never been washed. Just dont leak.(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170521_150103_zpsxpn6uz8t.jpg&hash=6940b3967459a176a4737851e109496f291c5ca9) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170521_150103_zpsxpn6uz8t.jpg.html)
? is one side of the engine pumping more oil from the tubes than the other side
That will explain the Lone Star beer in the other one. And yes you can see the oil sheen on the stainless..(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170521_150116_zpsctjnlxhq.jpg&hash=4ca2cfba33d822e716711d53b815d984de3d3fa2) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170521_150116_zpsctjnlxhq.jpg.html)
No Cliff seems about the same. I know oil looks like a bunch when it hits the cardboard . Years before wouldn't hardly drop any, maybe a spot or two.
Using that much oil and all I can see is the 1 exhaust pipe if it was coming from the rings and piston that pipe would be oil soaked,you may have a turbo or blower problem but no smoke really seems odd to me
Haven't pulled anything loose but no oil out exhaust and no smoke. Clean as a whistle. No oil anywhere on top or sides. Just out drain tubes. Both sides seem to be the same. Don't think running it will stop it. Ran about 2100 RPM's up to Brownwood Tx. and back about 250 or 300 miles. Didn't overheat and acutally ran cooler at that rpm than the 1800 to 1850 I usually run. Ran around 190 degrees.
Hey glen can you take a video of the drain tubes over a clean piece of cardboard? Im curios to see exactly how much oil you're dropping just for semantics sake? Please?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will tomorrow morning Scott. Spits out pretty good and no oil out exhaust/muffler. If anybody knows of a 2 stroke cat I'm all in and almost anywhere. Tommy down at Stewart the other day said he had a few that could still work on these. Geoff,know about the shops and overhauls. Peg you as much as they can. That's what a lot of them are in business for. Making big money. Don't mind paying but if engine doesn't need it , Why?? This low mileage motor has run with no oil usage until now. That's the way it goes.
Glen, I always take my coach to Gene's Bus Charters in Burleson Texas. Those guys have a pit for starters. Family owned business with the dad "David" who teaches his sons everything they know. He inspects their work. They own a ton of Neoplans and still run them in charter service, they also have a brand new MCI in their fleet. They fixed some weird issues with my bus brakes. But I did chat with SS down here and they old me they have three two stroke guys who have supposedly worked there for 40 years!!! Being in good hands might be worth the $$$.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't mean to over simplify things,but if this started after having your oil changed,there has to be something that was done when it was in the shop.Have you touched bases with Prevost and told them what is happening?
Other than overfilling by a gallon. Nothing. Told them after I got on the rode and home. They have done this twice and with me telling them. Last time was in shop, bus was in air, and they said no pumpkin heads back here under or around bus. My fault as I should have just put 8 gallons out instead of the 3 unopened boxes of Delo 100. Don't think that would hurt just blow it out they say. Think it will keep spitting as I used the theory to let it find it's place on oil stick and it was down below the L on the stick. Might a just kept going.
With 86,000 miles if it did break the oil control rings they can install new rings,IF it has ever gotten hot but if they see black marks on the liners and piston scaring they won't install new rings.
The friggn oil rings are the only rings you cannot inspect through the air box covers on a DD 8v92 the piston has to be removed $$$$,I think the problem is up top JMO
I doubt the oil rings broke. On the 92 Series the oil rings lose their tension and pass oil into the airbox while the compression rings keep their tension and the engine still runs good. I covered this in an earlier post. I just hope this doesn't happen to me since I also have a low milage 92 with 20 years on the clock.
--Geoff
I never saw oil rings loose tension unless the engine has been run hot but have seen a bunch of 8v92 with broken oil control rings,for some unknown reason seems like numbers 5 and 8 always break.I would worry about that Geoff.
I have taken military 8v92 that were rebuilt 30 years ago and were perfect when you fired it up after setting for years
I have rebuilt more 92 Series engines than I can count. When they get tired the first thing that goes out is the oil control rings while the compression rings are still good. This is the 92's, the 71 Series lose their compression first. The only time I have found broken oil rings is when the rebuilder overlapped the spring tensioner which immediately breaks the oil scraper rings when the pistons are forced into the liners. A common mistake made by newbies. I don't know about clyinders 5&8. Never heard of that one. The theory I posted earlier was that the oil rings lost their tension from 26 years of low usage. I've never heard of them breaking if they were installed correctly.
Hopefully we will hear what the problem was when the pistons are pulled.
--Geoff
I don't know but it is never a problem on the standby generators around here losing tension on the oil rings but anything is possible I guess
Quote from: muldoonman on May 22, 2017, 06:35:00 AM
Other than overfilling by a gallon. Nothing. Told them after I got on the rode and home. They have done this twice and with me telling them. Last time was in shop, bus was in air, and they said no pumpkin heads back here under or around bus. My fault as I should have just put 8 gallons out instead of the 3 unopened boxes of Delo 100. Don't think that would hurt just blow it out they say. Think it will keep spitting as I used the theory to let it find it's place on oil stick and it was down below the L on the stick. Might a just kept going.
A lot of people run their Detroit 2-strokes one gallon low (at the low mark) because their engine uses one gallon of oil if filled to the full mark and don't use any oil if kept at the low mark. I'm one of those people.
--Geoff
Muldoonman:I sent you a private message !! Don't know if it will be of help to you or not but you can check it out none the less.
Quote from: Geoff on May 22, 2017, 08:34:56 AM
A lot of people run their Detroit 2-strokes one gallon low (at the low mark) because their engine uses one gallon of oil if filled to the full mark and don't use any oil if kept at the low mark. I'm one of those people.
--Geoff
Do those engines actually burn their excess oil, or is it just blown out the airbox drains? I just topped up my engine to the Full mark in preparation for a trip to the desert this weekend - should I remove some of the oil to get the level back down to the Fill mark, or just let nature take its course?
I run both my airbox drains into a catch bottle by the back bumper, and each drain tube has a short section of clear tubing so I can see how much oil is coming from each side. I have slightly more coming from the driver's side, so I guess one piston there has oil rings that are beginning to weaken.
John
Quote from: bigred on May 23, 2017, 11:03:56 AM
Muldoonman:I sent you a private message !! Don't know if it will be of help to you or not but you can check it out none the less.
Thanks BigRed and everybody. Coach is in at Stewart Stevenson, San Antonio Tx. Delivered it this morning (125 miles south) and they have already called and it's in and getting checked out. Back at house counting my 8 year old Granddaughters inheritance fund to see if I'll have enough to bail it out. Well, I'll leave her the bus.. ::)
My 6V92TA doesn't use oil, or very little. I run it with the oil at the top full mark. Engine oil contributes to cooling so more is better in my not so learned opinion.
JC
Muldoonman
We are awaiting the S&S report. I hope some of this discussion helps your pocketbook.
--Geoff
Thanks Geoff and JC mine (8V92TA) never used a drop either or very little between oil changes until it started dripping out the tubes. A few short trips back.
Glenn, I need to see your coach. I was just at SS yesterday getting oil. Let me know when you're back down here
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glen,it is what it is but unlike some big bucks spent on engines in older buses your bus is worth repairing.Now set down and squeeze the neck on the Lone Star bottle.
I saw a bill on a 92 Prevost with 8v92 DDEC @ WW WIlliams today for a complete out of frame rebuild $32,181.93 it was a high mileage engine with 480k miles though.
Cliff don't scare me like that. Might have to go get my toothbrush out and leave the rest their. Scott, it's in the back bay. Talk to Tommy (service manager) and go see it. He did say something when he made his walk around that it was the cleanest 2 stroke he had ever seen. Not a drop of oil anywhere on engine. Still Silver. Heck the bellows on exhaust were still bright. I told him the only washing the motor got was Rain. I Hope for the best. If it does cost me $32,000 might have rethink this deal as I ain't gonna do this every 86,000 miles. When Tommy called on the way be to house yesterday , mechanic asked what kind of oil I ran in it . I guess that way he could blame it on the multi grade oil. I told him Delo 100 it's whole life, even before I got it.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 23, 2017, 08:33:16 PM
Glenn, I need to see your coach. I was just at SS yesterday getting oil. Let me know when you're back down here
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll be back in a day or two. Will leave my number with your email.
Hopefully it will be something minor LOL if he thinks 15/40 was to blame have Geoff call him he has always used 15/40 in his engine
Quote from: luvrbus on May 24, 2017, 06:14:43 AM
Hopefully it will be something minor LOL if he thinks 15/40 was to blame have Geoff call him he has always used 15/40 in his engine
Just told my Wife about the $32,000 rebuild. She wasn't pleased. Will keep you all posted with the outcome. More than likely set up a help glen go fund me site. ;D.
LOL.
Quote from: luvrbus on May 24, 2017, 06:14:43 AM
Hopefully it will be something minor LOL if he thinks 15/40 was to blame have Geoff call him he has always used 15/40 in his engine
That's not exactly true. I have run 15w-40 to break it in but have been running 40wt since the first oil change. I have customers that run the multiweight in their Detroits.
--Geoff
I thought you switched a couple of years back I remember reading a post somewhere,I know a lot of people that use 15/40 in the engine and the Allison transmission
Run the Delo 100 and TranSynd Transmission Fluid in the transmission in mine..
In my V730 I used to run Dexron then switched to universal tractor and transmission oil which is a 10w-20 hydraulic oil with good results. Not that I had any problems with Dexron, but a $50.00 5 gallon pail of the universal oil is exactly the right amount of fluid with a filter change.
--Geoff
Quote from: luvrbus on May 23, 2017, 09:04:59 PM
Glen,it is what it is but unlike some big bucks spent on engines in older buses your bus is worth repairing.Now set down and squeeze the neck on the Lone Star bottle.
I saw a bill on a 92 Prevost with 8v92 DDEC @ WW WIlliams today for a complete out of frame rebuild $32,181.93 it was a high mileage engine with 480k miles though.
I'm thinking I would do it for around half of that, depending on machine work. But I'm not doing anything for a few months, I go under the knife this afternoon. I'll just be posting a lot.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 24, 2017, 08:03:09 AM
I'm thinking I would do it for around half of that, depending on machine work. But I'm not doing anything for a few months, I go under the knife this afternoon. I'll just be posting a lot.
--Geoff
Geoff...I hope all goes well and wishes for a speedy recovery. I'll look forward to your additional posting :)
Good luck on the back Geoff
Quote from: luvrbus on May 24, 2017, 07:12:32 AM
I thought you switched a couple of years back I remember reading a post somewhere,I know a lot of people that use 15/40 in the engine and the Allison transmission
AT+T used it forever in prime power microwave stations. their call. 4000 hr overhauls, there call...never needed a grind.
Early indication is blower seals leaking. Working up a bid. Told them to order parts and fix it. Will keep you posted.
New message:. Mind my own business.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 24, 2017, 05:26:37 PM
For the oil loss you are experiencing the blower seals would have to be destroyed. Your money, their game....
--Geoff
What else can I do. Take it to Joe Smo Truck Shop and Taco Place on the corner. These are High Dollar Detroit Diesel folks with a couple Bandit 2 Stroke Mechanics. Anyway, I'm loaded. ;D
Quote from: muldoonman on May 24, 2017, 07:32:16 PM
What else can I do. Take it to Joe Smo Truck Shop and Taco Place on the corner. These are High Dollar Detroit Diesel folks with a couple Bandit 2 Stroke Mechanics. Anyway, I'm loaded. ;D
It won't be that bad I don't think 3 to 4k besides they will only use DD parts and stand behind their parts and labor 1 year parts and 90 days on labor
seriously? 4 grand to replace blower seals.... Wow what has the mechanic world come too...
LOL they will just exchange the blower @1250.00 Detroit dealers haven't replaced seals or bearings in a blower for years
Thanks guys for the help in figuring this out. Geoff I need that kind of help. No worries here. Heck at the ranch I sold everything I owned was getting old and needed work. Have you ever had to call a Dozer mechanic. They're as bad as working on these buses. LOL. Thank God it was a big Komatsu instead of a Cat. ;D
Yep the Cat and Deere shops would send a tech out to the job site with a friggin lap top for $1200 bucks I don't miss that part
Okay, if you are okay with my help. I'm sorry to say this, but what did they take apart to think it is the blower seals or are they just throwing parts at it? I would think they should have pulled the air box covers off and started it to see if the oil control rings are pumping oil. Like I said before, it would have to be a massive oil leak to be the blower. What I am adding now you would have had to lose a blower bearing (s) to be the cause of that much oil loss. You would hear the blower lobes hitting each other in that case. If they don't know how to troubleshoot tell them what I said or have them call me. It would not be the first time I have helped a shop out, but many are too arrogant to admit they need help.
--Geoff
(928) 771-0045
Geoff I hear what you are saying about shops being too arrogant to accept outside help or guidance. Last summer I sat at a ww shop for 2 days while they tried to diagnose a no start on my s60. For 2 days I kept asking "did you check the bull gear and the srs pin" the response was "that wouldn't be the problem, never seen that kind of failure" (the ddec gave a no srs code) after they replaced srs and trs sensors and replaced the ecm they finally checked the bull gear and what do you know, the srs pin had loosened and backed out enough that the sensor would not pick it up.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 25, 2017, 08:18:00 AM
Geoff I hear what you are saying about shops being too arrogant to accept outside help or guidance. Last summer I sat at a ww shop for 2 days while they tried to diagnose a no start on my s60. For 2 days I kept asking "did you check the bull gear and the srs pin" the response was "that wouldn't be the problem, never seen that kind of failure" (the ddec gave a no srs code) after they replaced srs and trs sensors and replaced the ecm they finally checked the bull gear and what do you know, the srs pin had loosened and backed out enough that the sensor would not pick it up.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
so...did they bill u for the fix...or the 3 shifts of education ?
They did knock a substantial amount of labor off the bill, and reinstalled my ecm. We were both satisfied with the end result.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Just got quote and had a few other things done also . $5500 labor. $6500 total. Had blower off and just seal kit apparently. No rebuilt blower. included air box seals as they pulled them first to see inside liners and pistons. Who knows I'm a retired welder/cow puncher.;D
That is a little steep a blower seal kit with the bearings only cost $400.00 from DD then they charge you for each individual gasket. ? what is their shop rate,still beats a inframe or out of frame rebuild I guess
Quote from: luvrbus on May 25, 2017, 05:49:56 PM
That is a little steep a blower seal kit with the bearings only cost $400.00 from DD then they charge you for each individual gasket. ? what is their shop rate,still beats a inframe or out of frame rebuild I guess
Don't know about shop rate Cliff. Jr over at Krause's Bus Sales says they quit working on the motors and said they have worked with the SS mechanic that's working on my 2 stroke for many years. Gave me another independent fella down in Hondo Tx. and said he was good on them also. Just takes a while to get it back. Yeah have the bid and the parts weren't that much just the labor. Guess they don't like working on buses. I guess at $125 an hour that would be 40 hours. Long as they get it fixed before the next blow up. ;D
It's been years since I heard of DD dealer rebuilding a blower,they can eat up labor $$$ if done right,plus it is no cake walk to remove and install the blower on a 8v92 in a Prevost either
I'm waiting for the test drive.
--Geoff
There was a Reliabilt blower installed on my bus before I got it. Reliabilt means factory rebuilt, not dealer rebuilt, as far as I understood, they just popped and swapped. Bill was $5K at the Toronto Detroit dealer. This around 10 years ago.
Blower prices are about 1/2 the price now from DD as they were 10 years ago,a new blower not a reman is still almost 5K
When I worked for DDA, we rebuilt all the blowers, governors, and turbos. So I learned how to do all that and I still do them.
--Geoff
I still do it too but it does take time even with all the Kent/Moore tools,I keep several by pass blowers in stock for different engines
Yep they still build them. (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170526_090326_zpsyyujpixw.jpg&hash=4f448306c582e3a8e7fa4bff717977df66db327a) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170526_090326_zpsyyujpixw.jpg.html)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170526_090331_zpsbzjurbqm.jpg&hash=1fdd2a15c448ea9c4f28e064ede77e8ccd45306b) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170526_090331_zpsbzjurbqm.jpg.html)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170526_090340_zpsi8zxk1qn.jpg&hash=c0182247d3a22a13f3bb27476a2f8a2d4ae64273) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170526_090340_zpsi8zxk1qn.jpg.html)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf107%2Fglens2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2017-05%2FIMG_20170526_090318_zpsg9q81plo.jpg&hash=f49b46e09bd6addc212d523048a363c05b1438f5) (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/glens2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/IMG_20170526_090318_zpsg9q81plo.jpg.html)
Oh and Stewart Stevenson labor is $145 per hour. $217 for overtime/after hours.
I see the blower mounting gasket was leaking oil and the rubber coupler looks like it was leaking, how about a picture of the blower seals? The blower mounting gasket usually leaks to the outside and you can see it running out the side of your engine. The last picture with the oil all around the gasket was not from your blower seals. I can't say anymore, I wasn't there to see the blower removal.
--Geoff
The guy is doing it right "clean"
Would that aftercooler not have been fully saturated with oil? I was expecting to see a ton of oil in there, but it looks perfect. Like it's just been cleaned... Maybe it's the after shot... :)
Brian
Update,
Picked up coach around noon and had a coolant leak (Hose clamp) which they put another on and drove it 125 miles to barn. Blower seals was the culprit. . $6500 bucks and some change. They did a few extra things, oil sending unit, gauge was bouncing and said the governor housing was cracked somehow. All in all, run like it always did. Good and with power. They did check/set the rack. Outside of engine was clean when I left it, now, not so much. Those 2 stroke guys (they have 2 both over 40 years working there) are good ones but need there oil changed. LOL. The coming days will tell. Too tired to check the oil when I parked it, But No leaks and no blow by (oil) on floor.. Must be getting old. Thanks everyone for the insight. ;D
Glad it's up and running glen. Sorry about the dollars involved
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yeah Scott all okay on the moola. Would have called but in a rush. Headed down next week to Krause' Bus sales next week and if I get back to San Antone will holler.
It's all water under the bridge.
--Geoff
It is always cheaper to exchange.I got into that deal on a 740 Williams wanted 4500.00 for a exchanged 740 I said no rebuild mine since I know what I have ??? ended up costing me $8100.00 time is money at a shop
Quote from: luvrbus on June 03, 2017, 09:08:58 AM
It is always cheaper to exchange.I got into that deal on a 740 Williams wanted 4500.00 for a exchanged 740 I said no rebuild mine since I know what I have ??? ended up costing me $8100.00 time is money at a shop
I've been following this for educational purposes, but you nailed it. It's always cheaper to swap. But I suppose my lack of knowledge on 8V92T engines is the reason I do not, will not ever understand that price tag for those seals.
God forbid I ever have to even think of that...but my blower is very accessible and there is room. I did quotes for years. VERY rarely had a labor bill that was 1,000 more than the parts.
Anyhoo...I'm glad it's all straight.
Quote from: muldoonman on June 02, 2017, 02:52:36 PMUpdate, ... All in all, run like it always did. Good and with power. ... No leaks and no blow by (oil) on floor..
Good news, glad it worked out OK for you. Motor on ... BH
Just what I needed!! One more freakin thing to worry about on my bus!!!! Do these things go bad often? How can you tell if you have a bad one ,and do all 8v92s have these???
Quote from: bigred on June 03, 2017, 01:26:26 PM
Just what I needed!! One more freakin thing to worry about on my bus!!!! Do these things go bad often? How can you tell if you have a bad one ,and do all 8v92s have these???
You had to ask, didn't you! Okay, I wasn't there to see the blower and determine if it needed seals or not, the pictures only show a cleaned up blower. The seals on a 92TA blower are actually closer to piston rings except they have a little top and bottom notch that join when squeezed together to form a complete ring to keep the oil from leaking out from the blower bearings. NA engines use standard lip seals. It is unheard of by me that these ring seals ever leak or break after installation.
What appears to have been the problem is the blower mounting gasket hardened, the hold down bolts were loose, so the oil feed holes between the block and the blower we're leaking oil into the airbox. Now this happens all the time, unlike blower seals leaking. You have to lose a blower bearing to have the kind of oil leak pouring out the air box drains like what was described. A blower mounting gasket, yes. Anyway, your blower itself can go through two in-frame overhauls before it needs seals and the governor rebuilt. The blower quill shaft and drives are also prone to failure after awhile.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on June 03, 2017, 02:41:07 PM
You had to ask, didn't you! Okay, I wasn't there to see the blower and determine if it needed seals or not, the pictures only show a cleaned up blower. The seals on a 92TA blower are actually closer to piston rings except they have a little top and bottom notch that join when squeezed together to form a complete ring to keep the oil from leaking out from the blower bearings. NA engines use standard lip seals. It is unheard of by me that these ring seals ever leak or break after installation.
What appears to have been the problem is the blower mounting gasket hardened, the hold down bolts were loose, so the oil feed holes between the block and the blower we're leaking oil into the airbox. Now this happens all the time, unlike blower seals leaking. You have to lose a blower bearing to have the kind of oil leak pouring out the air box drains like what was described. A blower mounting gasket, yes. Anyway, your blower itself can go through two in-frame overhauls before it needs seals and the governor rebuilt. The blower quill shaft and drives are also prone to failure after awhile.
--Geoff So can one/should one periodically tighten the hold down bolts? The reason I am asking ,I could no longer stand that dripping leaking smoking sob so I have busted the bank and am having a kit installed as we speak and I would sure hat to put out all this money just to be told"Sorry !! That didn't fix it !! looks like we need seals on the blower"
Quote from: bigred on June 03, 2017, 01:26:26 PM
Just what I needed!! One more freakin thing to worry about on my bus!!!! Do these things go bad often? How can you tell if you have a bad one ,and do all 8v92s have these???
Yeah if you have a 8V92. My coach only had 86,000 when it started dropping oil out the air box tubes on 2 short trips after letting it set this winter. I Replaced check valves as that was the cheapest. Didn't help and took it down. Right back to where it was with no oil leakie out the tubes, none. They give you parts price but it's the labor that gets you. Like geoff said maybe you will never have a problem. They do take all air box covers and scope it out. Didn't say if they pulled the pan as Cliff said you can't see the oil rings just compression rings though openings after bumping engine. .
The blower mounting gasket was leaking. You will usually find oil leaking to the outside of the blower mounting when that happens. Just look around the sides and the front and back of the blower. It doesn't hurt to tighten the blower bolts as per the sequence in the manual. I think Muldoonman had his engine dipped in expoxy paint since his blower gasket wasn't leaking to the outside.
--Geoff
Oh, the last post needs comment-- you can't just take off the air box covers and look, to check the oil rings you have to take the most convenient air box off (the center one is the biggest) and run the engine and see if oil is pumping out the liner ports. That is what I said earlier in this thread. A Detroit will actually run with all the air box covers off. I've seen it done at sea level. Very noisy. That's why I suggested one air box at a time.
yep that's what they did run it with them off. My motor was painted from factory (silver) and wasn't leaking to outside front, back or sideways. Guess the gaskets held oil in. All I know is they put blower seals in after tear down and installed and it stopped blowing out the airbox drains. It had used over a gallon going down 125 miles.