Ok, I have a little bit of time to make three things happen before heading from Texas back to Michigan in June. I need some quick advice. My boost levels are 10-12 and should be higher according to Ken Arnold who has been my awesome personal tech on my turboed 8v92 DDEC II that has a 500 hp program on it. 1992 MCI 102C3
1. I am installing a higher flow muffler. Any recommendations? Sean Shanks installed one I liked but I can't remember the details.
2. Rebuilding the air filter housing and installing higher flow air filter. Cliff, you made recommendations on a 1500cfm filter. What was the company that made this?
3. Turbo boost sensor. I'm going to replace it with a new one and replace the hose too while I'm at it. Question is: two bar or three bar? No one has definitively answered my question on this yet lol.
Anything else? My turbo is fine, my exhaust doesn't seem to have any leaks. But the coach is running hot all the time (new radiators and fresh coolant and no air pockets. We burped those all out). And doesn't have the power a 500hp coach should. Fuel filters are new. Trans is Allison 748 ATEC. 1992 MCI 102C3.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wrap the exhaust, pre-turbo, to keep the heat IN.
Put a wrench on the exhaust manifold bolts to be sure...
Be very suspicious of the size of the stock air intake cavities making obstruction for your fire snorter.
There was at least one busnut that put a giant Y in the intake pipe and plumbed two air cleaner canisters to let that beast gulp freely.
No need for symmetry, stuff 'em in where they'll fit.
Keep the bends to an absolute minimum, and as gradual as space and ingenuity allows.
With a scientist's OCD, be absolutely sure that your boost measuring devices are properly located and telling you the truth.
Proudly purchase the good constant torque clamps, put quality lube on 'em so they will come off next time.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
everything in Alaska that is not paved is made of glacial silt mixed with poor gravel.
We always swabbed the intake piping with a very light film of 90 weight.
It goes no where, but it definitely detects dusting of the intake.
Check it often to insure the integrity of your intake.
Especially when revamping.
Both the ECO air filters and muffler/resonators can be Donaldson, the advantage being a giant catalog full of bits and bobs for your install (those constant torque straps, for example, and all the sleeves and bends) and easy access to stockists. one BAR is roughly 15 psi, so a 3 BAR sensor would probably be appropriate. Some would depend on if your gauge/sensor combo is designed to measure absolute pressure, so the first BAR is basically measuring ambient atmospheric pressure, or boost pressure, with zero on ambient and 30 of 45 psi of boost.
Boost is a function of fuel delivery. Inspect fuel lines for integrity,and blow out dip tube in tank. I have seen many power problems solved by removing a fuel restriction before the filtering system
Perhaps plumbing a five gallon can of fuel and a test drive would give a clue.
When I bought my 102C3 it had the MCI muffler and the standard air intake that they used for the 8V92. It ran lake a sports car. Never slowed down for a hill. You do have a problem, but I don't think it is the parts you are looking at. I would be looking for a problem in the exhaust system. That could be the muffler. Take the exhaust pipe off before the muffler and give it a ride with a straight pipe.
Jack
Scott,you are not going see over 15 lbs of boost under normal driving conditions with that engine,boost should rise to 21 to 28 lbs under a heavy load though.
Buy a Aero muffler like Shanks and install the ECO 1500 air cleaner it should help.
You need a chassis dyno and the only place I know that will dyno a older bus is WW Williams in Tucson Az costs $180.00 Williams won't do it Phoenix.
Since you are in Texas call Stewart and Stevenson in Houston about a chassis dyno.Did Ken check the injector numbers,blower and the engine cam number to be sure you have the right components for a 500 hp engine ?.
I can send you a new by pass valve for the blower if you want to try it, a bad by pass valve will affect boost have you serviced the by pass valve ?
BW: excellent info and advice. My current intake setup has a 180 degree u turn. I'm eliminating that. Boost measuring device was the prolink setup ken was using. A computer. I like the two filter idea... very intriguing. And I do think I'll wrap the exhaust up to the turbo.
Don, I am nervous about revamping my intake system for this very reason. I'll be checking and double checking to be sure I don't mess up and leave a leak. I'll use smoke and pressure. And I'll use your advice and oil the inside lightly.
Brian: the ECO was the one I was thinking of. Thanks also for the info on the sensor. That helps me a lot. I think I have a two bar. I'll cross reference the part number.
Dickegler: I have plenty of fuel. Tons and tons of rolling black smoke when I'm on the throttle. Seriously. I'm a freaking freight train. We turned up fuel so yeah.
Jack: this is exactly what I'm expecting. It should move quick. I'll be removing the muffler and going with a higher flow unit.
Cliff, that's just it, we were pulling a hill towing my 7000lb land cruiser and ken was sitting shotgun watching the computer screen plugged into my ECM. We maxed out at 12psi. He really felt it wasn't enough and he also felt the coach was sluggish. Still better than my 6v92 was but definitely not a strong as when we first bought it. I'll see if any of the S&S shops here would dyno it. We haven't checked any of the blow and engine cam numbers. I just assumed that my 400 hp 8v92 TA could be bumped to 500 without any drama? I will take you up on the bypass valve offer if I can't fix it with these three tries.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Be sure the pipe leaving the turbine (hot side) is at least 5 inch,I had a Eagle here that somebody had reduced the pipe to 4 inch for clearance reasons it was one a sick puppy
I ran a 10' copper 1/4 " line from the engine then to a 1/4 " dot air line up to the dash to the old style ( new ) air boost gauge . always got as high as 25 -30 lbs and then I see that I am only getting 18-22 lbs ?? looked at the manifold and there was a very small area of black soot ? so as I removed the manifold it just fell apart in 2 pieces ? so I replaced both manifolds and gaskets and bolts . got my boost and power back this was on the mci
now after reading your post I went out and looked at the air restriction gauge at the air box and it shows a little restriction ? the air filter is new and I put it in on sept 15 th last year ? so I pull the air filter out and I have some of last years dried leaves ( small pieces ) that must have come through the screen on the intake . use the shop vac and all is clean now . so now I will inspect the filter more often on the cat
not that I could tell any power loss or fuel burn
dave
Cliff, will
Check that and report back.
Dave, I indeed have spot around the area where the exhaust side of the turbo clamps to the intake turbo. I removed the v band clamp and will replace it with new.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok so I pulled the vband clamp off the union between the cast exhaust turbine and the turbocharger. There is indeed soot around this area. But the soot isn't coming from the actual union but it seems to be coming from the cast turbine housing just before the vband clamp union. Can someone interpret these photos? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/d69b5792a81b1dac4d6eaf81f2e54916.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/d9b0476dc1a9daad94044096499d4bd2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/71daf1f9e70d12c47781383e16d489f4.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
there is a "piston ring" like seal in there...my guess, it is stuck...or not sealing...
i think :)
Donald, I know there are three piston ring type compression seals inside the down tube of the exhaust turbine exit portion, is that the ones you're talking about? Or is there indeed a similar ring seal between the turbocharger and exhaust (hot) turbine housing? If you're right, how do I r&r this?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
atypical:(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1207.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb468%2Fdphalaska%2Fturbo_zpscs2bbbda.png&hash=5985d5b7a10708f42abcc5f6a0b59e3520934037) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/dphalaska/media/turbo_zpscs2bbbda.png.html)
Those 2 surface are a machined fit no gaskets or rings, you should have no soot there unless you have a slight case of the 2 not matching like 1 or the other is warped from the heat
after I had my 6v92ta rebuilt and I reinstalled it in the coach it had black smoke ? I called the guys that rebuilt it and they said bring it to them . I did , they could not find the problem so I had to leave the coach with them and they pulled the engine out and put it on a dino and then found that it was a bad turbo ? they then reinstalled the engine with a new turbo and all was good at no charge to me ! really good guys . I do not know what was wrong with the turbo
dave
Why does everything have to be complicated. Sigh. Ok. I'll clean up the sooted area, install the new vband coupling clamp and see how it looks after driving. Thanks for the diagram. Nice exploded view of the bits and pieces.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You could always lift the rad cap and drive an 8V92 under it. ;)
Quote from: Jim Eh. on May 15, 2017, 04:27:50 PM
You could always lift the rad cap and drive an 8V92 under it. ;)
to go bigger he'd have to go 12v92 ... which is still on the drawing board :)
Quote from: eagle19952 on May 15, 2017, 05:08:46 PM
to go bigger he'd have to go 12v92 ... which is still on the drawing board :)
No Don...no it's not. I can't find a place in the rumpus of my bus to fit 8 radiators....so they can keep their 12v92 thank you very much lol. I can't imagine another 4 headaches if you get my drift.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you want to keep it simple on the muffler take the pipe off and run without it to see if there is a difference. NO COST
Jack
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 15, 2017, 05:49:08 PM
No Don...no it's not. I can't find a place in the rumpus of my bus to fit 8 radiators....so they can keep their 12v92 thank you very much lol. I can't imagine another 4 headaches if you get my drift.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i guess my point was missed...replacing an 8v92 with an 8v92 was being suggested :)
Intake is completely disassembled and waiting for my new ECO 1550 CFM air filter/housing. Also ordered a 5" aeroturbine stainless muffler like Sean has. I heard his and saw it in action and liked it. Also ordered a new turbo boost MAP sensor genuine part. Replacing the 1/4" hose with a fresh one. Old muffler is removed and waiting for new one to arrive to install. CLIFF: how do I service the bypass valve. Where exactly is it located?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170516/b73b315a2208c5f1babd80e2c2dda8d8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170516/1c8a790ce6070d8c0f9b0f244ac17fa2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170516/b58277061f76ab58e46e826ed4e7a3c9.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is on the back of the blower about 1-1/2 round with a 1/4 inch hose.has 1 bolt and clap holding take the bolt and clamp off it pops out clean good and be sure it moves freely.One thing we keep missing is check the fuel pump pressure a DDEC takes a larger pump than the MUI engines fwiw
were i u ... i would retain my air cleaner...i seriously doubt that there in lies your trouble.
I will retain. But this new setup will be much higher flowing and simpler. With the restroom tanks removed it's a straight shot to the turbo versus a 180 degree U bend from the turbo to the air cleaner on the drivers side of the engine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 16, 2017, 05:02:20 PM
I will retain. But this new setup will be much higher flowing and simpler. With the restroom tanks removed it's a straight shot to the turbo versus a 180 degree U bend from the turbo to the air cleaner on the drivers side of the engine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
imo...u are making to many changes without checking the results...leave the current muffler and test drive the new filter. personally, i would have changed the muffler first..
You have a great point. Parts changing and shot gunning isn't going to tell me exactly what has been causing my symptoms. I guess I'm pressed for time because I head out on a lot of miles June 10 so I was hoping to just open the exhaust, help her get more air and breathe better since everyone told me the stock air cleaner system doesn't support my 500hp setting very well, and a $60 turbo boost map sensor seemed like an easy part change to throw into the mix.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scott,seems like when people change engines there is a lot of throwing parts at a DDEC based 8v92 engine,hope you get it worked out
Cliff, as far as I know, this 8v92 DDEC II came with the coach from the factory...along with the Allison 748 ATEC trans. Ken and I just were noticing she is sluggish and smokey and runs a tad warm all the time and boost (even under load up a hill towing my 7000lb land cruiser) maxed out at 12psi. I am just trying to work through some of the simple stuff first...again, we uploaded a 500HP program to the coach that was a factory setting for an 8v92 DDEC II. So everything should be ok on that end...I'll keep this thread updated. Exhaust, filter/intake tubing, and new boost sensor should arrive by Monday. I'll have my work cut out for me.
There was 2 versions of the DDEC ll one version would support up to 475 the other one would support up to 450 hp , I never knew MCI ever went above 400 hp with a 8v92.Arnold is smart guy he will figure it out
I am
Wondering if this was a program someone made adjusting fuel tables pulse width modulation etc. I don't know exactly but it gave me more powah and I'm happy. But, still having some issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It looks like the v-band clamp is missing on the hot side. At this point in it's life it's
Become one piece.. Probably going to need a fresh turbo from the rest of the symptoms.
Hi Prevost45, you have to read through the whole thread and catch up a little lol. I removed that clamp to replace it with a new one. Also, my turbo is fine. Spins freely, no lateral play, no fin damage. I can hear it sing pretty when I'm on the throttle. I never had much black smoke on the coach until we turned up the fuel. But boost isn't matching what we've done. So I'm trying to chase down some other possible issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So I removed the turbo boost valve, and it was moving freely. The problem is the small hose that is attached to it was completely clogged with soot. Literally it was completely clogged. Even the brass nipple that that hose is connected to on the engine side was completely clogged with soot. I'm purchasing a new hose today and a new nipple.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170518/c2d6131932d4f45b1b53c511f69f1d6a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That $0.50 hose could be your whole problem!
;D BK ;D
Who was it that said to check that bypass valve again? ::)
But why is there soot in it at all? I'm wondering what else is causing that problem.
John
uhm...that is more than soot....
Lol. It was cliff. And yes, you're seeing old grease and oil on the outside of the bypass valve but that's not what was inside the hose. The hose had dry carbony soot inside it. I am wondering why too???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can someone explain to me exactly how the bypass works? Does it have vacuum and pull the valve into the retracted position? If that hose is clogged would it send the valve into "always bypass" mode?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bypass valve is cleaned, moves freely (it did when I pulled it out) and is going back in right now. Turbo boost MAP sensor hose is replaced and waiting on new sensor. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/8ec2b88ed2625f6a3bdf78c4c7163fb0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/74dbe3878fd54564aee7b94c2df4f1ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/d441f12ea9bb3b991565ee99a347159a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 18, 2017, 02:08:40 PM
Can someone explain to me exactly how the bypass works? Does it have vacuum and pull the valve into the retracted position? If that hose is clogged would it send the valve into "always bypass" mode?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The blower by-pass works like this: when the turbo boost gets to a pre-set pressure, the by-pass pushes a release so the blower spins free allowing more air into the engine. Without the by-pass, the intake air is limited to what the blower drive allows. So, the by-pass allows more air into the engine because the turbo can produce more air than the blower. The freed up blower lobes turn faster with turbo boost.
The only way you could have soot in the by-pass is from the little nipple on the turbo mount. Your turbo must be leaking exhaust smoke into the fresh air side of the turbo; or more likely, your engine exhaust is getting sucked into air intake somehow. Take the inlet hose off the turbo and wipe it with a clean rag and see if there is soot. If there is no soot, then it is the first maybe-- the turbo exhaust is leaking into the inlet air side of the turbo.
--Geoff
Thanks so much for
That explanation. Makes much more sense to me now. I think you're right about the exhaust getting sucked into the turbo. The exhaust had a leaked at the down pipe right next to the original air filter housing. Somehow I think the drain hole was sucking soot into the air filter because the filter was completely black with soot after just a few thousand miles of driving. I'm moving the air filter to the other side of the coach as we speak so that won't be an issue anymore anyway. I'm also replacing the wide band clamps that hold the two pieces of downpipe together.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is that new Push-Lock hose going to withstand the high temperature there? I originally had an Alkon AQ-DOT push-in fitting there for some 1/4" plastic air tubing to my turbo boost gauge, and it completely melted the fitting's O-ring and the tubing. The air there is very hot! I replaced it with an all-metal compression fitting and a few feet of copper 1/4" refrigeration tube before the plastic tube.
John
John, that's what reliabuilt put on there in 2002 and it's worked this long just fine. I just wanted to freshen the hose. But the plastic push fitting is identical to the old one.
Installed the new turbo boost sensor/map sensor today too. Cleaned bypass valve is back in with oring and high temp RTV. Next week the new 1550 CFM air filter goes in and the new aero high flow exhaust goes on. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/ec37aba34ebb3a40fa91a1053769216f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/ebbdb1af55d9795ec566dd7175927e13.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scott--
Did you find soot in the air inlet hose to the turbo? And are there any exhaust leaks at the turbo or exhaust system? You have low turbo pressure and any leaks can be part of the problem.
--Geoff
Geoff, there wasn't soot in the air inlet hose. In fact the cold side of the turbo looks really good on the inside. I don't have any leaks or any soot at all around the manifolds, nor at the exhaust union clamps that go from the manifolds to the hot side of the turbo. The only soot I've seen is at the clamp area where the exhaust turbine mates to the intake turbine. But everyone is saying there shouldn't be soot there. I removed the muffler and it does have a ton of soot buildup and what looks like creosote buildup too. Not sure what that is but in thinking the muffler was somewhat clogged
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aero Turbine Muffler installed. Sounds juicy. Don't worry, I'll be trimming the fiberglass bumper and adding a heat shield.
https://youtu.be/w4nI3y-YXiE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds nice. Gonna do that with mine. Take that 100 lb. piece of junk off.
Thanks to Sean Shanks for letting me hear his on his 6v92 eagle. Hopefully the drone isn't too loud driving down the road
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a Donaldson resonator which is quite loud, but we don't hear it driving down the highway. Only when the sound bounces off a concrete barrier beside the road, or in a tunnel, etc.'
JC
I don't like loud mufflers. If you have one on your bus, you are sitting 35-40 away you won't hear it with all the insulation, cabinets, etc., But the people outside will sure hear it. I have the oem muffler on mine and the surviving bitty behind my house thinks it's too loud. She hates it when I have to set the top no load on a Detroit. I had to pull the exhaust manifolds off mine and start it to find the smoking clyinder then to check compression. She called the sheriff.
--Geoff
Trust me I don't like them loud either Geoff. This is my "let's get the bus running right" experiment since my old muffler was clogged with creosote soot and had three holes rusting in it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When I fired mine up for the first time with just the manifolds on, all my neighbours came over - not to complain, but to enjoy the happy noise! I have one of those resonators too, I get no complaints about noise. If you have a turbo, they are just fine. If you had a NA it would be a little loud.
It's honestly not super loud. It's throaty. But not loud. Running without it is loud. Fitting up new intake piping and air filter today. I asked this elsewhere, but can someone tell me definitively if 1550 CFM of air is enough for a 500HP 8V92TA? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/4ccc0f659f57b9099b4c224fc3010cb8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/de2c8062fcc6bdac917a90f7e2021f2a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep the book says 1350 cfm,check the Donaldson site for flow rate it will give you the required exhaust and intake flow rate ,also has the EGT chart for the flow
1500 cfm - that is awesome amount of air moving through the motor. Hate to think how much pollution those things belch out. ::)
Ok so
My 1550 CFM eco should do the trick. Thanks Cliff. I just needed to make sure
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Think about wrapping the intake pipe to the turbo to keep it as cool as you can before the boost?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: windtrader on May 24, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
1500 cfm - that is awesome amount of air moving through the motor. Hate to think how much pollution those things belch out. ::)
Talk to Don Fairchild about that! He can make run as clean or cleaner than a stock 60 series or Cum a part!
;D BK ;D
The only pollution I worry about is smoke, and stinky exhaust.
--Geoff
Good idea and yes i will do that. Along with a turbo blanket for the hot side and exhaust wrap. I just test drove it and it runs really good. I'm happy with the mods so far. Haven't measured the boost yet. But I'm still running hot. She keeps flirting with 200°F not even towing my truck. I don't know what gives. I'm going to have ken turn down my fueling a bit and I'll have to pull a radiator and look inside to see if it's getting buildup.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
having the power is nice but not if it blows up . I would turn down the power until you figure out the the black smoke and the heat build up
how does it sound on the road at speed with the new exhaust ?
dave
Have you pulled the cover on the water pump and checked the impeller on the pump they do wear,you need to find out what temperature your transmission is running at too it can increase the heat in the engine
An 8V-92 pumps 851 cubic feet of volume at 2000 rpm (fun with math!). Take some away for overlap on the valves and the intake slots, add some back for the blower and the turbo, 1500 cfm (measured at some rated pressure drop, of course), is still probably around double what it actually pumps. The difference is so it has the headroom to perform well, and still perform well after a year or two of running.
It could be his fuel also the 8v92 doesn't like the bio blend fuel they seem to run hot and loose power with any blend over 5% Loves stations are the worst
Dave, it sounds amazing. I've run straight exhaust before and this actually sounds way way nicer. Like a mellow slightly aggressive but very large sounding exhaust note. Hard to describe but I'm very pleased. No noticeable increase of noise inside and just has a great sound. I'm thrilled with it.
Cliff, I haven't done this because it appeared the water pump had been replaced when I bought the coach two years ago. The plastic cover was a good indicator. (Didn't have the metal bolted plate). But I'll do this anyway just to be sure. Your thoughts about the tranny intrigue me. I have a feeling my Allison is dumping too much heat into the coolant. Can I actually install a separate cooler for just the trans fluid and eliminate the coolant/trans fluid heat exchanger altogether?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 26, 2017, 06:06:59 AM
Dave, it sounds amazing. I've run straight exhaust before and this actually sounds way way nicer. Like a mellow slightly aggressive but very large sounding exhaust note. Hard to describe but I'm very pleased. No noticeable increase of noise inside and just has a great sound. I'm thrilled with it.
Cliff, I haven't done this because it appeared the water pump had been replaced when I bought the coach two years ago. The plastic cover was a good indicator. (Didn't have the metal bolted plate). But I'll do this anyway just to be sure. Your thoughts about the tranny intrigue me. I have a feeling my Allison is dumping too much heat into the coolant. Can I actually install a separate cooler for just the trans fluid and eliminate the coolant/trans fluid heat exchanger altogether?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Some bus nuts have installed a large transmission fluid radiator with a fan and brought temperatures down.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 26, 2017, 06:38:24 AM
Some bus nuts have installed a large transmission fluid radiator with a fan and brought temperatures down.
--Geoff
I was one of them, along with Tom C who gave me the idea first! I (we?) use the Thermal Dynamics DB-00341DC cooler, installed after the torque converter but before the engine's heat exchanger. This cooler has 1" inlet and outlet, and I reused my old Kysor Alarmstat 195-degree temperature switch to turn on the fan when the fluid reaches that temperature. I also have an override switch to run the fan all the time, and I reused one of my old Cole-Hersee solenoids to provide power to the motor. After having essentially replaced my entire cooling system, I don't know how much difference this cooler makes to the engine temperature, but other folk say it drops their coolant temp by a few degrees. When I drive out to the high desert tomorrow for our annual Crownaholics get-together I'll try turning the fan on and off from the front as I'm driving, to see what difference the fan itself makes to the transmission and coolant temps. I mounted the cooler under the bus, behind the driver-side rear wheels at an angle so it catches the air flowing under the bus, but protected from stones thrown up from the tires - it's not the ideal o0cation, but it seems to work well enough there.
Tom and I bought ours from that outfit in Florida that trades under several different names, but the same cooler is also on eBay for almost $200 less than I paid!
John
I have a air to oil cooler for a Allison but is a monster in size that we removed from a Eagle it is 25in X 36in with 1 inch tubing if you can find a mounting place I'll make you a deal on it
Cliff, I'll be doing some measuring on Sunday and connect with you about that....what causes an Allison to run warm or hot? Shifts fine, trans fluid is fine. Is there a fluid or additive that can help it run cooler? Thanks for the ideas Geoff and John too. I think I'll be adding this. With some new exhaust parts, some new hoses, new intake and filter and a little bit of paint, the engine compartment is starting to feel more livable. I might add a bedroom in there. At least my guests will stay warm:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/90612be633604efcc05b13585f487b93.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/32b211b27cdfb0f0fc57e7c7073693bd.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scott, your transmission likely runs at normal temperatures: 180 cruising on the flat, and well above 200 under heavy load (210, 220). You don't have a transmission oil temp gauge? The problem is that the bus cooling system has to deal with that, and shedding the engine heat as well. So an auxiliary transmission cooler can help. I say "can", because my PO had one just inside the pax side engine side door. One day it started leaking so I removed it. Didn't make any difference, so I never fixed it or reinstalled it. I guess it wasn't getting enough air to be effective. If you install one, make sure it is big enough, and gets lots of air from a good location, and efficient fans.
JC
Scott,fluid level is culprit most of the time it will run warmer low or high on fluid level.I find most running hot are overfilled because owners don't know how to check the fluid level ???
Ok do tell what is the proper procedure? Check while idling right? Like a car?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 27, 2017, 09:01:32 PM
Ok do tell what is the proper procedure? Check while idling right? Like a car?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HOT...like at the top of the hill, near the end of the trip on level ground tho :)
Yes check at operating temperature (hot) and idling.
JC
Ok and fluid should be at the HOT mark...I'll check this and report back. I'm convinced now that I'm running warm because of my tranny. I've done everything I can to keep the engine cool. Air blower box has been completely rebuilt, brand new gearbox for the squirrel cage blowers, blower box is sealed tight as a clam and at low idle I can toss a rag in front of radiator and it will suck to the grill and stay there. Coolant is fresh and radiators are in excellent condition. I need to get my trans to stay cooler. I disabled my retarder because I don't need or use it for most of my flatland driving. Can I change my spin on trans filter without actually changing the trans fluid or will it dump a ton out?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
the 2 spin on filters on mine I would change every year when I changed the oil filter . just make sure you fill all the filters before you install them . I changed my cat transmission to semi synthetic transmission oil and changed the internal filters ( that is a royal pain in the a$$ ) the old internal filters the date was 2007
dave
Quote from: Scott & Heather on May 28, 2017, 08:02:02 AM
Ok and fluid should be at the HOT mark...I'll check this and report back. I'm convinced now that I'm running warm because of my tranny. I've done everything I can to keep the engine cool. Air blower box has been completely rebuilt, brand new gearbox for the squirrel cage blowers, blower box is sealed tight as a clam and at low idle I can toss a rag in front of radiator and it will suck to the grill and stay there. Coolant is fresh and radiators are in excellent condition. I need to get my trans to stay cooler. I disabled my retarder because I don't need or use it for most of my flatland driving. Can I change my spin on trans filter without actually changing the trans fluid or will it dump a ton out?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds like it! Thanks for posting all this- very educational to those observing from the sidelines like me- thinking of future 8v92 mods! I guess a manual will stay cooler
The Mechanic's Tips manuals available on-line from Allison include a detailed explanation of how to calibrate (or check the calibration of) the dipstick as installed. It might be worthwhile, if you're checking things and looking for clues, to check the calibration of your dipstick to make sure it's showing the honest fluid levels. My books shows both hot and cold (ref fill) fill levels referenced as a distance to the transmission oil pan flange, and vary based on which oil pan you have and the angle of the dipstick from vertical. So it would be very easy to have an incorrectly marked dipstick after all these years.
Brian
I think you have a Atec transmission, if you do with a silverleaf or prolink you should be able to read the transmission temp. If it is only 10 to 20 deg higher than the engine it shouldn't be a problem.
Jack
Quote from: blue_goose on May 29, 2017, 06:52:07 AM
I think you have a Atec transmission, if you do with a silverleaf or prolink you should be able to read the transmission temp. If it is only 10 to 20 deg higher than the engine it shouldn't be a problem.
Jack
If he has a way to cool the extra 10 or 20 degrees
My B500 always runs within 5 deg of the coolant temp regardless of load.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Jack, my engine is set to 500hp and is already at it's limit just keeping itself cool. So i think I really need to remove the added heat load of the 748 and have it cool itself via aux cooler. Cliff, your aux cooler is just a little too large for any space I have back there. I could go 29"x28" and that's about maxed out for me. I'll see what Hayden has.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 29, 2017, 08:10:17 AM
My B500 always runs within 5 deg of the coolant temp regardless of load.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Same here Derrick only way I heat the b500 up is with the retarder
I know this discussion is now more focused on the transmission's contribution to the coolant's heat, but yesterday while looking at the Ralph Cantos collection of buses, one of the people there who is an older Detroit mechanic suggested that Woolite is essentially the same as Water Wetter! He said that adding a gallon of Woolite to the coolant would result in better heat transfer from the engine to the coolant and from the coolant to the radiator tubes. An Audi forum I used to subscribe to had several members who said that Water Wetter made a significant difference to their cars' coolant temperatures, and the theory of Water Wetter sounds plausible. (However, lots of things sound plausible "in theory" . . .) I personally hate the idea of additives anywhere, whether for oil, coolant or anything else, so I am very skeptical of this Water Wetter / Woolite idea, but maybe, just maybe, it has some merit, perhaps? Getting the heat out of the engine block is one thing, but then getting that heat conducted through the tubes and fins to the airflow through the radiator is something different. So, has anyone here used Water Wetter (or Woolite!) to lower coolant temps?
While driving back today from my weekend desert trip I had the new transmission cooler's electric fan running permanently, i.e. not controlled by its 195-degree thermoswitch, and I was seeing lower engine coolant temps than ever before. However, I still don't know how much difference was due to A) having a separate oil/air transmission cooler at all, and B) having its fan always on, so the jury's still out on that one. So saying, anything that moves heat to the air must help.
John
I don't know about Woolite, but I used water wetter in most of my race cars. I can verify that it works, and it also reduces corrosion.
I have used Woolite after a oil cooler failure before to help clean the system it pretty good for that.92 series are so sensitive on liner o-rings I wouldn't trust water wetter JMO
Quote from: luvrbus on May 30, 2017, 05:41:20 AM
I have used Woolite after a oil cooler failure before to help clean the system it pretty good for that.92 series are so sensitive on liner o-rings I wouldn't trust water wetter JMO
Dawn works well for flushing after a oil cooler failure. Pickup truck is on its way to the shop today because of a failed oil cooler. Replaced 25k ago, that didn't last long.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
I use Dawn as the primary cleaner but you cannot leave Dawn in a system it suds to much and you will be blowing bubbles driving kids love it ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on May 30, 2017, 05:41:20 AM
I have used Woolite after a oil cooler failure before to help clean the system it pretty good for that.92 series are so sensitive on liner o-rings I wouldn't trust water wetter JMO
Good, that's what I was thinking too. Water Wetter (or Woolite, or whatever other surfactant) is another of those symptom products that don't address the underlying root cause. The only thing I'll do is slightly increase the proportion of distilled water in my coolant - I don't live or go anywhere cold, I already use the test strips once or twice a year, and I have a new coolant filter to install, so that's my way to slightly help the cooling. No snake oil for me!
John