I have it in my head that someone made a comment in the past few days about someone who installs Series 50 4-stroke diesels into buses with 2-stroke engines. Maybe in PA? Am I correct on this or do I need to think about buses less and not eat ham sandwiches before bed?
Anybody?? Thanks, BH
Bruce,
That might be Bernhard's Bus in Quakertown, PA. I am probably a little over an hour from there, but have never been there.
I think they have a website showing a build. Isn't there a guy in NC not too far from you who installed a series 50 in Boomer's bus?
Now -- STEP AWAY from the sandwiches SLOWLY----And NO BUSSES WILL BE HARMED!!! ;D
Steve -
Gene Russell in NC installed a DDEC 6-71T into Boomer's Silverside, not an S-50. Gene's got the same engine in his Silversides, too.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: pabusnut on May 10, 2017, 06:22:06 PM
Bruce, ... Now -- STEP AWAY from the sandwiches SLOWLY----And NO BUSSES WILL BE HARMED!!! ;D
And nobody can say that you don't get good advice on this forum! ;D
Thanks, Steve - I'm pretty sure that Bernard's was what I was thinking. I've got some electrical questions and I'll check out what they've done. I appreciate the help. BH
Bruce I have put in 4 of the series 50 and help with some more. What do you need.
Jack
Series 50 sounds like a good idea on paper. And in real life, they are an excellent engine for a bus. But-the Series 50 has twin counter rotating balancing shafts under the crankshaft that need to be replaced every 300,000 miles. These balancing shafts are getting harder to find. And the block and heads are not being made anymore (as compared to the Series 60 that is still in production for marine, off highway use).
Years ago, Freightliner put the Series 50 into their FL106. A short hood medium duty truck that the expediters really loved for the power and fuel economy. This is the same hood length that the Cummins ISC/ISL fit into. The Series 50 is an 8.5 liter engine (12.7 liter Series 60 with 2 cylinders taken off). The maximum power from a Series 50 is 350hp and 1,100lb/ft torque-about the same as a healthy 6V-92TA, but much more fuel efficient. An RV rated Cummins ISL is rated at 400hp and 1250lb/ft torque. Since the Cummins is still in production, puts out more power and is considerable shorter, my choice would be the ISL. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on May 11, 2017, 07:42:33 AM
Since the Cummins is still in production, puts out more power and is considerable shorter, my choice would be the ISL.
Tom -Is the ISL shorter than the S-50?
RJ
What is fuel mileage per gallon on a Series 50? I get 8 mpg with my 350 HP 6V92TA at highway speeds and I bet I could get 10 mpg if I went 62 mph @ 1800 rpm's. A lot of my good fuel mileage has to do with the streamlined design of the RTS. The engineers at General Motors went all out when they designed the RTS. The bus was put in a wind tunnel and the design included low wind resistance. But I am getting off topic.
--Geoff
I have friend with a series 50 in the RTS a factory install he gets 8.7 MPG with a 4:10 gear
The people I know with the ISM or M11 Cummins engines in Eagles are around 8 mpg at 60 mph.Some are a little better with the B400 2 overdrive transmissions and most only use the first overdrive (5th gear) to keep the transmission from hunting
Quote from: Geoff on May 11, 2017, 09:17:05 AM... my good fuel mileage has to do with the streamlined design of the RTS. ...
--Geoff
Unless you'd consider two cinder blocks stacked together having "streamlined design", I can forget about all that. IYKWIM ... ;)
Quote from: blue_goose on May 11, 2017, 05:13:28 AMBruce I have put in 4 of the series 50 and help with some more. What do you need.
Jack
Thanks, Jack. Will you be home this evening? I'll give you a call, if that's OK (I have your number). Or later is OK, too. Best wishes, BH
Quote from: TomC on May 11, 2017, 07:42:33 AM
Series 50 sounds like a good idea on paper. And in real life, they are an excellent engine for a bus. But-the Series 50 has twin counter rotating balancing shafts under the crankshaft that need to be replaced every 300,000 miles. These balancing shafts are getting harder to find. And the block and heads are not being made anymore (as compared to the Series 60 that is still in production for marine, off highway use).
Years ago, Freightliner put the Series 50 into their FL106. A short hood medium duty truck that the expediters really loved for the power and fuel economy. This is the same hood length that the Cummins ISC/ISL fit into. The Series 50 is an 8.5 liter engine (12.7 liter Series 60 with 2 cylinders taken off). The maximum power from a Series 50 is 350hp and 1,100lb/ft torque-about the same as a healthy 6V-92TA, but much more fuel efficient. An RV rated Cummins ISL is rated at 400hp and 1250lb/ft torque. Since the Cummins is still in production, puts out more power and is considerable shorter, my choice would be the ISL. Good Luck, TomC
I pushed the wrong button. Tom pretty much said it all but I will just add that on top of everything else, the S50 was a rough running engine which could be a turn off. But if you can live with the noise and the fact that's it's no longer built, it may be a good deal but I'm partial to CUMMINS for obvious reason$$$$ :)
Cummins had a massive recall on the ISL 400 hp back in 2006,2007 or 2008 I forgot the excact year but some where in that time frame for throwing rods through the block.
A lot of people were pissed Cummins would repair the problem for free and Cummins left it up to the manufacture of the RV to notify the owners of the recall which some didn't so they were tagged with the name "ComeAPart"for a few years
I get a solid 10 MPG from my 8.3 mechanical with a 30K coach.>>>Dan
Gee I wonder if anyone has ever stuffed a 50/b400 in a 67 Flex? 😁
Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Quote from: luvrbus on May 11, 2017, 10:00:37 AM
I have friend with a series 50 in the RTS a factory install he gets 8.7 MPG with a 4:10 gear
The people I know with the ISM or M11 Cummins engines in Eagles are around 8 mpg at 60 mph.Some are a little better with the B400 2 overdrive transmissions and most only use the first overdrive (5th gear) to keep the transmission from hunting
Can you share the person's name/location? We have a pretty good Yahoo RTS bus nuts website, maybe he is on it already.... Anyway, if he has a Series 50 does he have the transit limit on his engine of 277 HP? That is the problem we have with computer engines on our RTS's.
--Geoff
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on May 11, 2017, 04:05:00 PM
I pushed the wrong button. Tom pretty much said it all but I will just add that on top of everything else, the S50 was a rough running engine which could be a turn off. But if you can live with the noise and the fact that's it's no longer built, it may be a good deal but I'm partial to CUMMINS for obvious reason$$$$ :)
If the Series 50 is anything like the Series 60, it is the most obnoxious idling engine I have ever heard. My 6V92TA purrs and sounds better than a 71 Series. The turbo quiets the exhaust just right on the 92 Series.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on May 11, 2017, 05:27:33 PM
Can you share the person's name/location? We have a pretty good Yahoo RTS bus nuts website, maybe he is on it already.... Anyway, if he has a Series 50 does he have the transit limit on his engine of 277 HP? That is the problem we have with computer engines on our RTS's.
--Geoff
Dana Miller he owns 4 RTS with the series 50 and they not conversions but 18 passengers with bunks he leases to US Forest Service in Idaho,he prefers the RTS over the school buses other operators use
Quote from: luvrbus on May 11, 2017, 05:56:40 PM
Dana Miller he owns 4 RTS with the series 50 and they not conversions but 18 passengers with bunks he leases to US Forest Service in Idaho,he prefers the RTS over the school buses other operators use
I have communicated with NYC bus drivers and they love the RTS because the bus can go through the biggest pot holes without damaging the bus! Anyway, New York keeps ordering new RTS's from who ever buys the rights to build them. The last builder I heard of took a contract to build around 450 RTS's just for NYC, nobody else. But I think it is over for the RTS with ADA low floor requirements.
--Geoff
RTS is ADA compliant.
It has a lift in the rear door stairway.
Folks in chairs don't like lifts, mechanics don't like lifts, fleet managers don't like lifts, drivers don't like lifts...
Hence low floor is the popular solution.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I always liked the RTS.I rode them to high school almost every morning back in those days. The funny thing though is that Milwaukee County had 150(1980) of them and they were almost universally hated and couldn't wait to get rid of them back in the mid 90's when their lifecycle was up.
Bruce you can call any time.
Jack
Van I saw that Flx with S50 at B&B's. Did you do that? ;)
JC