We are planning a trip to the Four Corners area this month. Google Maps shows the travel time to be 4+ hours from Joshua Tree to Flagstaff. Of course, they are estimating that for a car keeping up with at least the speed limit. I always add an extra 20% for figuring the bus travel time. However, this trip involves increases in altitude up to 7000 feet, so I am wondering if even adding 50% to the Google estimate would cover it. What has been your non turbo experiences with this?
I found in my recent journey that an added 25% worked well for me.
I would use 50% Lin once you leave Needles it all up hill to Flagstaff,I would need to figure the hp for you but you will be down 50+ hp with the 8v71 N/A by Flagstaff fwiw not only the climb but the headwinds are a killer.If you use I 10 to I 17 it is still a long slow climb
Then when you get on 89A out of flagstaff it is also up hill. I agree add 50 % and if you make it faster all is well.
I hope you have an automatic, if you have a 4 speed Spicer you might be spending a lot of time in second gear. At least you will have time to see the scenery, and your cooling system will get tested.
Lin my Navigator ran the numbers and she says 4 hours by car is 5 hours and 12 minutes by Bus Avg time.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 06, 2017, 09:48:25 PM
Lin my Navigator ran the numbers and she says 4 hours by car is 5 hours and 12 minutes by Bus Avg time.
Dave he cannot drive from Needles to Flagstaff in 5 hrs and 12 minutes ;D
During the years that we had the bus i figured out that overall we would average going 50 miles in an hour no matter what our speed was. When you encounter hills, wind, traffic, towns, and fuel stops it affects the miles you make good. It got to where i would figure out how many miles we were going to go each day and if i divided it by 50 i could come pretty close to how many hours it would take us to get there. :)
Quote from: luvrbus on May 07, 2017, 06:09:43 AM
Dave he cannot drive from Needles to Flagstaff in 5 hrs and 12 minutes ;D
210 miles in 5 hours can't be done?
Humm. Here is a trip calculator showing the route and elevation. Going from 500 to 7300 ft over 230 miles along pretty straight roads. That is an average of .56% grade. If this is a clear road it sure seems even an old bus can do 55.
Following link shows map
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi2wzglcxz0xe21/needles-flagstaff.png?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi2wzglcxz0xe21/needles-flagstaff.png?dl=0)
Quote from: windtrader on May 07, 2017, 09:37:09 AM
Humm. Here is a trip calculator showing the route and elevation. Going from 500 to 7300 ft over 230 miles along pretty straight roads. That is an average of .56% grade. If this is a clear road it sure seems even an old bus can do 55.
Following link shows map
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi2wzglcxz0xe21/needles-flagstaff.png?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi2wzglcxz0xe21/needles-flagstaff.png?dl=0)
Not going to happen on that route ;D
Oh wise one, care to share a bit more? ;D
It's all up hill and the engines heat in a hurry you might average 30 mph in a old bus on a cold day from Needles to Flagstaff
Clifford talk to my Nav she is always correct. She also cooks my food!...
Don our Bus and a lot of others only go full bore up hills 7% grades at 27 MPH and Blinking all the way....
I get slowing way down on a grade at least in single digits but I'm hoping any bus can run at freeway speeds on a .5% grade. Yes, that is POINT 5. But who am I to argue against you grizzled busnuts.
Buy a Plastic Fantastic then.. Good Luck with that, LOL ;D
Well, I'll just need to pull the trigger and get on the road. Will need to sort it out myself as I'm confused as hell. LOL
Windtrader, If the incline were merely the average, you might be close. But considering that when you scale down a 230 mile trip to a four inch graph you miss a lot of the detail, it will not be that way. Although there are likely to be places where you can cruise (I have not traveled this route, but it is standard for Clifford), their will also be long steep grades that keep you down to a crawl. It appears that most experience here would endorse the Google plus 50% estimate. As the distance for that leg of the trip is really about 350 miles, the 50 mile per hour method and the Google plus a half both come to in the 7 hour range. We may plan to stop a bit short of Flagstaff at about the 6 hour mark though.
Hey Clifford, it seems to me that I would do a little better ( not much) taking 62 to 95 to Needles as opposed by going via Amboy as I usually do. Does that make sense?
Clifford she say I forgot to tell her the part about the hills and altitude. Details LOL.... ;)
You know, we live at about 3000 feet. Most trips are a lot of ups and downs with very little time spent at sea level. It is possible and if so, wise to tune the engine to a higher altitude?
I have made that trip many times with the MC8 and 8v71na. As Clifford says it cannot be done in 5 hours. It is all uphill, a lot of it gradual but many areas of 6 to 8 percent grades. Though the steeper grades are usually only a few miles long, they really slow you down. Don't forget about the vicious head winds. That run will cause the best of them to heat up.
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Quote from: Lin on May 07, 2017, 01:17:15 PM
You know, we live at about 3000 feet. Most trips are a lot of ups and downs with very little time spent at sea level. It is possible and if so, wise to tune the engine to a higher altitude?
The only way really to "tune" a diesel to a higher altitude is to turbo it lol.
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Hi Lin, try to avoid I40 between Kingman and Flagstaff, it is in terrible shape, last month they were starting to repair the worst sections, it's down to one lane, replaced 3 bridges over the last 8 months, I17 has some pretty steep grades, but better pavement, lvmci...
Lv, Thanks for the heads up. It does not appear that there is an good parallel road to I-40 between those cities. For me to take I-17 up would mean going by I-10 to Phoenix. That route is 80 miles longer. Do you feel it is worth it to avoid I-40 from Kingman to Flagstaff?
Hi Lin, I40 is bad, they're finally fixing it, but there are long stretches where 18 wheelers are in the left lane! My Lady whoo frequently goes to the Navajo and Hopi reservations, says the other side of Flagstaff isnt as bad, no rest stops are open, due to the state, just a huge one on I17 is open, that I've seen, Clifford may know of more that are open. The 3 bridges near Willow ranch road are big improvements. I had some motocycle friends going to Williams and I recomended they take US66 rather than ride bikes on I 40 before they they reconstructed those bridges, lvmci...
Thanks, I am leaning toward taking I-10 to I-17 now. A more peaceful drive seems worth the time.
Go I40 to 20 miles east of Kingman take 93 (I think) go thru Wickenburg to 78 lol damn I forgot the highway numbers and we do that trip often.
Any ways 8 mile from Wickenburg turn left that high way will end at I 17 north of Phoenix not far from Black Canyon and you dodge the all the Phoenix traffic it is all good highway. and takes you past Lake Pleasant.
You can also go I 10 to the 101 at Glendale and go to I 17 but you do not want to take I 10 to I 17 traffic is terrible any time of the day at that junction,fwiw there is a nice rest area at Wickenburg to spend the night it has a circle drive with plenty of room for a bus a tow vehicle to maneuver
Thanks Cliff, 101 looks okay though I was thinking of taking 303 from 10 to 17 to stay as far from Phoenix as possible. 303 hits 10 about 10 miles west of 101 and joins 17 about 5+ miles north.
I don't think the 303 or the 202 are complete to I 17 ,I haven't tried in a couple of years though either with all the construction of the overpasses on 17
Lin, I-10 to about 12 miles past Quartzsite (exit 31) where you get onto Hiway 60, go thru Wickenburg about 10 miles and get onto Hiway 74 which takes you to I-17. Easy route to do, misses all of Phoenix area. :) Ed
Ed, that is an interesting route. One of the options that comes up on Google Maps is taking 62 from where we live to Parker, Az. Then Az 95 south for a bit and joining 60 there all the way to Wickenburg and 17. For us, the mileage is less than going down to 10, but I was not sure what those roads and traffic are like. If they are good 60mpg roads, they would be a nice choice.
It a good route Lin sometimes we go that route from Parker nice flat route through the cantaloupe country
Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 07, 2017, 10:57:06 AM
Clifford talk to my Nav she is always correct. She also cooks my food!...
Don our Bus and a lot of others only go full bore up hills 7% grades at 27 MPH and Blinking all the way....
you gain 1/16th mph if you turn off the 4 way flashers :)
Eagle is it the heat buildup in the lens? ;)
Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 12, 2017, 04:13:28 PM
Eagle is it the heat buildup in the lens? ;)
no..hot air rises and tends to reduce traction...which cause drag....which puts a load on the alternator... ;D >:( ;D >:( ;D >:(
;D 8) :o