I'm a lurker here. Have been since I considered a bus several years ago. At this point in my life, a bus was not for me.
Anyhow. Wife and I are in Rome for three weeks. Of course we ride buses all over. I'm convinced they all have straight axles welded to the frames. The drivers shoot off in Italian driving style: fast and never yield the right-of-way. On cobblestones the ride was almost unbearable. At least the brakes work. Can't last long, though.
We've really enjoyed our time. And I've seen more marques than I ever thought existed.
I really can't speak on buses used over there but at least here, your MCI, PREVOST, and VAN HOOL and transits use air suspension.
EAGLE used a non air type I believe was called TORSILASTIC. EAGLE tried to make a comeback about 10 years ago and they switched to full air but they only built a few buses until they failed again.
In regards to the buses you folks were riding on over there, were they built on truck chassis like an American school bus or were they of the full size buses I just mentioned? European buses are a whole different breed though interesting just the same.
They felt like a school bus (or worse) but they were intracity buses, and not all that old. And indeed it is interesting to see European concepts of buses.
Many in the Eurpoean bus industry favour a "body on frame" style of construction.
The various "coachwork builders" or "body builders" will purchase a rolling chassis from one of the big boys, Mercedes, Volvo, etc...
And then put their bus body onto it, and brand it.
Same as how most of the RV industry in North America functions.
Lots of variety, to a North American eye, you wouldn't guess what might be under that "coach looking" bus.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Yeah FREIGHTLINER is pretty much the primary supplier of bus chassis for those builders that build body on frame buses that are not school buses. FREIGHTLINER builds a pretty good chassis but some of the buses themselves may not be so good.
The one's that are starting to become rather popular now for churches, hotels,old folks homes, and party buses are bus bodies built on FORD SUPERDUTY chassis.
When I worked at Freightliner, a Flx bus (I think around 1952)-round back with scoop, came in. Rather than trying to modify the bus, the owner remounted the bus on a new Freightliner motorhome chassis. So now it had a 450hp Cummins ISL, Allison 3000MH, independent front air suspension, rear air suspension with 4 wheel air discs and ABS. Unless you knew what to look for, looked completely stock. Course, wasn't cheap, but still cheaper than buying a new shell. And you still had the classic bus look. Good Luck, TomC
I'm curious if the rough-riding city buses in Rome have air suspension or not. Were they Iveco buses? Air suspension doesn't automatically guarantee a plush ride, any more than traditional steel-sprung buses being automatically rough riding. Some Gillig transits here were not exactly smooth riding even with their air bags, and if proper coach-type progressive leaf springs were used (like on my bus) the ride is very controlled and comfortable. I do however wish that coil springs were more popular - they can provide almost the smoothness of air bags, the original London Routemaster being a good example of this.
While the traditional body-on-frame construction is still sometimes used, integral or semi-integral construction is now almost universal. Setra was one of the first manufacturers to do so (their name means self-supporting in German), and manufacturers like Volvo now produce their own integral buses such as the 9700 series, when before they only produced chassis such as the B10 for others to body; Van Hool is another example of a former body-maker now producing their own buses. Body makers such as Irizar buy running gear from MAN and Scania which consists of front and rear complete sub-frames, but there are no overall frame rails in their buses like a traditional British bus would have used. Sometimes the distinction between monocoque, integral, semi-integral and body-on-frame blurs, making it difficult to know exactly how any particular bus is made.
John
I should have looked under the buses, but the last time I was in England I road a bus from Manchester to London and it rode rough. A very unpleasant ride (not to mention the toilet was overflowing). The buses in England were very modern looking.
--Geoff
As Iceni John says, although it's true that many European 'bus' builders are really just body builders, the bodies they build are full monocoque bodies and the chassis (frame) supplier really isn't supplying a chassis at all, just a front and rear subframe connected by very lightweight longitudinals that are there for little more than convenience during delivery.
The bus industry in Europe and Asia is structured in a very different way to that in North America, in some ways better (eg much more range and choice) and in some ways worse (eg. much more new model depreciation, and probably much more variation in build quality between manufacturers). How the price of new buses compares I don't really know, but my impression is that, at the bottom-end of the market at least, buses here are more of a throwaway commodity - built down to a budget and not expected to have a long lifespan (quite the opposite to the philosophy that produced the Routemaster and it's ilk, and any number of American buses).
Changing subject altogether, I saw an article on a new train just a couple of days ago that I think looks very Neoplan-esque (Neoplan being my own favourite bus builder) - maybe this kind of styling will become commonplace on trains as well before long:
(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8D8C/production/_95863263_train_04.jpg)
Jeremy
Neat picture at it does look a bit like a NEOPLAN. is that one of those high speed trains... that is 300+ MPH.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on May 05, 2017, 09:37:21 AM
Neat picture at it does look a bit like a NEOPLAN. is that one of those high speed trains... that is 300+ MPH.
That's the new Shiki-shima luxury excursion train operated by the JR East company. It takes a maximum of only 34 passengers on luxurious trips to the north of Japan, a sort of land cruise for the very wealthy. It's interesting in that it runs on 3'6" gauge lines, not the Shinkansen's standard gauge, and it's an electro-diesel so it can operate from overhead wires of electrified lines or by its own on-board diesel generator sets in the end cars on unelectrified lines. It may be the slowest new train in Japan with a maximum speed of only 70 MPH. The interior is absolutely stunning - I'm now wondering if I could incorporate any of its design elements into my bus's interior. The simple clean lines and minimalist aesthetic appeals to me, especially for somewhere with limited interior space such as a bus conversion. Here's some pictures of its accommodations: https://www.google.com/search?q=shiki-shima&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwib7c2TntnTAhXrFJoKHfGkCJoQ_AUIBygC&biw=1046&bih=900#spf=1 (https://www.google.com/search?q=shiki-shima&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwib7c2TntnTAhXrFJoKHfGkCJoQ_AUIBygC&biw=1046&bih=900#spf=1)
John
Quote from: TomC on May 05, 2017, 07:29:10 AM
When I worked at Freightliner, a Flx bus (I think around 1952)-round back with scoop, came in. Rather than trying to modify the bus, the owner remounted the bus on a new Freightliner motorhome chassis. So now it had a 450hp Cummins ISL, Allison 3000MH, independent front air suspension, rear air suspension with 4 wheel air discs and ABS. Unless you knew what to look for, looked completely stock. Course, wasn't cheap, but still cheaper than buying a new shell. And you still had the classic bus look. Good Luck, TomC
450hp CUMMINS in a CLIPPER? Wow, now that's a hot rod! Certainly more get up and go than the CHEVROLET V8 gasoline engines that most of them were repowered with.