Guys need some advice on greasing pilot bearing on my 4104, I hand cranked the motor over from the bottom inspection window and found the grease plug on the flywheel , grease fitting installed , how much grease and what type, I know too much not good because it may get into the clutch, but how do I know I got the bearing greased? I already did throw out and other linkage related items , Thanks, Nelson
Hi Nel
I usually go three pumps of a grease gun, if I miss it over time like miss an interval for greasing, I go five pumps of the gun.
The lubrication chart calls for a specific grease that hardly exists now a days.
I've been using a standard multipurpose chassis grease without issue.
It's important not to over grease but don't lose sleep on it going directly to the clutch.
It will usually sling off the bearing onto the bell housing.
In one attempt to grease it after a long spell of no mileage applied, the grease in the application tube had hardened to where I couldn't get the gun to even pump so I removed the zurk & ran a wire over 8" up which was in the ballpark of the bearing itself.
Upon reinstalling the zurk I could pump it very easily - I gave it 6 pumps - you can almost "feel" when it reaches its destination.
I never use a pneumatic grease gun on that particular fitting... fwiw
I've even had this discussion with Scott - since purchasing our 4104 in 79, we have never had any clutch or release bearing issues. We know we're getting near the end of service life for the clutch disc due to the end of adjustment on the turn knob getting near. With all this being said we will probably do a clutch job prior to the next long road trip just to be pro active over reactive...
Hope this helps - its from my personal experience.
Over the years most of those I replaced clutches in all had been converted over to sealed bearing the grease fitting was for decorations and to make a mess ;D
Wondering if one can get that length of service life from a sealed bearing?
I think we had a similar discussion pertaining to original engine generator bearings with grease zurks.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 04, 2017, 10:06:44 AM
Wondering if one can get that length of service life from a sealed bearing?
I think we had a similar discussion pertaining to original engine generator bearings with grease zurks.
Probably will last longer than the clutch,sealed wheel bearings will usually out live the vehicle,I have replaced sealed pilot bearing when replacing a clutch there was nothing wrong they rolled like new but replaced it anyways since I was there
Thanks for the advice , I am particularly interested in clutch maintenance on the 4104 since I won't be taking it out of gear when stopped or in traffic as I would my other vehicles with manuals. I don't like keeping the clutch engaged more than I have to but it's either that or a lot of waiting and grinding going back into 1st from neutral.
Quote from: Nel on April 04, 2017, 10:34:40 AM
Thanks for the advice , I am particularly interested in clutch maintenance on the 4104 since I won't be taking it out of gear when stopped or in traffic as I would my other vehicles with manuals. I don't like keeping the clutch engaged more than I have to but it's either that or a lot of waiting and grinding going back into 1st from neutral.
yea they should have incorporated a clutch brake on the old GM's but they didn't it probably saved GM 20 bucks on ea bus
What is the purpose of a clutch brake, was it for non synchronized standard transmissions.
Quote from: scanzel on April 05, 2017, 07:01:21 AM
What is the purpose of a clutch brake, was it for non synchronized standard transmissions.
It was to stop the main input shaft from turning in neutral so you could put it in gear,they are still used today
A clutch brake is on the output shaft of the transmission. It is squeezed when the clutch pedal is pushed all the way to the floor. It stops the free wheeling rotation of the shaft to make it easy to engage 1st gear, or any gear, to start from a stop. After that, the pedal is only applied half way, just enough to release the clutch. They are easily burnt out by careless drivers who push the pedal to the floor while the vehicle is moving. With a properly adjusted one, you can go to neutral while waiting at a red light. When it turns green, clutch pedal to the floor, goes into gear really easy. A great thing.
JC
Do you mean the input transmission shaft?
We have a drive shaft brake that is on the output shaft, but that shaft isn't spinning while sitting.
What am I missing here?
Yea sorry, input shaft. It is a disk with friction material on both sides that is locked onto the splines of the input shaft by a couple of tabs. It is between the release bearing and the front of the transmission. Pushing the pedal squeezes the clutch brake between the bearing and the front of the transmission, stopping it from spinning. Doing that while the vehicle is moving wears the clutch break quickly, or often breaks the tabs that lock it to the splined shaft so it spins and is useless. Replacing it is easy, but you still curse the driver that broke it...
JC
Nel -No clutch brake on your 4104, so don't fret over it.
Quote from: Nel on April 04, 2017, 10:34:40 AM
. . . since I won't be taking it out of gear when stopped or in traffic as I would my other vehicles with manuals. I don't like keeping the clutch engaged more than I have to but it's either that or a lot of waiting and grinding going back into 1st from neutral.
Next time you're out an about, try this at a stop sign: Transmission in neutral, clutch out, wait a few seconds. Clutch in, slip gearbox into 4th, then slide it over into 1st. 90% of the time this will reduce grinding to a minimum. Try it and report back with your results.
Also, have you followed DA BOOK in terms of adjusting the clutch? The proper procedure starts up front at the pedal and you work your way back from there. Simply adjusting the wheel in the engine compartment doesn't get the job done correctly.
Between these two tips, your '04 will like you, and you'll like your '04!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Thanks RJ, I think my clutch is working the way it should , there is some free play and the air assist works like a charm. Waiting for the trans to stop spinning from neutral is the issue when you are at a green light and the cars behind you get impatient, can't blame them , but I will try your tip about 4th first, Thanks again, Nelson
Hard to do as the knees forget their youth...
Rolling to a stop, transmission is in whatever higher gear it was in, just as the rpms are about to be dragged below idle, clutch in, and shifter will slip cleanly into first just before your stop.
Leave it there until light changes.
Yanking the transmission out of gear back further and coasting in to the stop also contributes to higher shaft speeds inside the box.
Same strategy as above, leave in gear to the bitter end, clutch in as the idle dips, stop, then slip out of gear and let out clutch to wait... this will have slowest shaft spinning speeds.
Some of that grinding is self induced by the way you bring it in for a landing.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Buswarrior what you're saying is true but during our recent in frame rebuild the crankshaft main thrust bearing was the most worn of all the bearing set do to the fact that I too have been doing the foot on the clutch thing for lots of years. Not detrimental but there is a trade off.
Yea a clutch in GM bus engine when the thrust bearing wears it transfers to the oil pump on the 8v71and makes a mess of the oil pump the play has to go some where and the oil pump is the last in that line ;)
IMO both GM and early MCI had a poor clutch system using the slotted fly wheel with center plate that just dangles in the slots,a mushroom style clutch beats those by far