So far I've had excellent results with my self made air leveling system and I'm taking the advice of several on here and making it electric. Basically normally closed air solenoids placed strategically to allow fill and dump of air in bags. My question is this:
Are there in existence normally closed valves that also have a one-sided air dump feature? So I could just use one valve at the source airline to the bag and it would allow me to fill the bag and dump air out of the bag with just one solenoid? During the dump cycle it would have to close off the source air so that I'm only dumping bag air and not source air. Does this make sense?
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Something like this maybe. Use the manifolds and resell the electronics. I have the complete valid system in my bus now and i love it.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/141834218645
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This ones a bit more but it has a setup for the tag dump as well since i believe your bus uses a regulator for the tag. Mine has the tag connected to the drive axle bags.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/310804873394
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Smokes. That's more $$$ than a handful of air solenoids.
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a tee in each bag feed line... ;D
a 4 point kneeling on one switch, or four.
Scott Somebody should have a old Level-it kit around somewhere. It was real popular several years ago.
if not I will see if i can find my installation instructions.
Then you can get the parts
uncle ned
Scott its only money and you can't take it with you right?
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Hi Scott
I used these http://datasheets.globalspec.com/ds/2609/Festo/E5770A60-3669-4D76-9990-1F0796BBA67D (http://datasheets.globalspec.com/ds/2609/Festo/E5770A60-3669-4D76-9990-1F0796BBA67D) to dump my airbags.
long time ago now so not sure if they will do exactly what you want.
Cheerz
glen
Quote from: thomasinnv on March 31, 2017, 01:12:52 PM
Scott its only money and you can't take it with you right?
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And you won't go anywhere without it either ;D
Nice don :) I'll actually probably just use two solenoids for each bag. One for dumping air and one for adding air located appropriately on the air line.
Yeah, I can't take it with me but I also can't spend what I don't have lol. Oh wait? That's what credit cards are for lol. Uncle Ned, I'm curious now. I'll look into this. Aussie coach, I looked at the data sheet but it was all Greek to me ??
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or you could do it simple like this .... zero power just 1 air line from each corner in and 1 supply .... push valve in to add air or pull the same valve out to remove air
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1280.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa484%2Fcrane66%2Fbus%2520sept%252022%25202014%2520002_zpsns8n6u7k.jpg&hash=a9853488a2e04b163fe26b1a1e4c63d056e206e5) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/bus%20sept%2022%202014%20002_zpsns8n6u7k.jpg.html)
dave
Scott,order or download your self a Parker catalog they will have a valve that will work for you
Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2017, 06:57:30 AMScott,order your self a Parker catalog they will have a valve that will work for you
Clifford, is this the one? http://www.parkersupply.com/ (http://www.parkersupply.com/)
I've looked through their listings and they have stuff like 4" dia. steam control valves for boilers but I don't see anything like what I'd need for a leveling system.
Any more info???? Thanks, BH
Bruce, www.parker.com (http://www.parker.com) Parker/Hannifan has any type valve you need
Scott if you are going to retain the stock ride height valves for use during travel then you will need a third valve to isolate the bag from the ride height valve during manual operation.
One thing I like about my Valid system is if I forget to to put it in travel mode, once I reach 10 mph it switches over automatically.
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Because I wanted to retain my automatic leveling valves (helpful in cross winds, etc) and because I believe in keeping the original 3 point leveling system (to eliminate possible twist), I used three Red top 12v air solenoids at each corner.
Between the automatic leveling valve and the air bags, I spliced into the air line a normally open valve so the air could still flow through. Then between the air leveling valve and the normally open solenoid, I Tee'd in 2 more normally closed solenoids-one for adding air, one for exhausting air. The operation is activate the normally open solenoid to close it, then can add or exhaust air. These solenoids are continuous operation, so when I'm camping, I can leave them in manual mode if I need to level. Each position I have an on/off toggle to activate, and an on/off/on momentary switch to add or exhaust air. I can get at least 4 days before the bus finally settles down. Have had good success with this system, no problems. Good Luck, TomC
I was wondering when someone would add that the leveling system needs three solenoids so you can use the factory leveling system while driving and the parked levelers when camping. Some inexpensive solenoids are the ones used to shift 2 speed rear ends.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on April 01, 2017, 08:39:33 AM
I was wondering when someone would add that the leveling system needs three solenoids so you can use the factory leveling system while driving and the parked levelers when camping. Some inexpensive solenoids are the ones used to shift 2 speed rear ends.
--Geoff
i figured he already had that part...cuz he drives it places :)
Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2017, 07:22:49 AMBruce, www.parker.com (http://www.parker.com) Parker/Hannifan has any type valve you need
Thanks, Clifford. That's just what I needed!
Quote from: TomC on April 01, 2017, 08:18:33 AMThen between the air leveling valve and the normally open solenoid, I Tee'd in 2 more normally closed solenoids-one for adding air, one for exhausting air.
I assume you meant to say "between the AIR BAGS and the normally open solenoid"? Otherwise the levelling valve would just readjust the bag height automatically.
Or do you adjust your air and then close off the no solenoid? I suppose that would work too though less desireable of a setup imho.
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Thanks for the Parker site cliff. Truth is, I've been running for almost a year without my OTR leveling system. I removed all of my auto levelers and have been running manual leveling 24/7. I love it. My bags don't settle at all. They hold pressure for months. So once they are set for driving, they are set. I adjust for road crown sometimes or heavy side winds but for the most part I set them and forget them. So yeah I just need add and dump air solenoids. Simple. Dave you system is pretty cool and simple too. I just am trying to keep the air lines/fittings between the bags and solenoids very small and minimal so I don't introduce future leaks :)
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I went the other way just air ... 1 connection at the bag the other at the valve at the drivers seat no breaks in the air line . zero problems for 10 years
dave
Quote from: sledhead on April 02, 2017, 06:31:08 AM
I went the other way just air ... 1 connection at the bag the other at the valve at the drivers seat no breaks in the air line . zero problems for 10 years
dave
Thats how I did the MC8. Just manual system and worked well. I wanted to retain the automatic valves and the high rise on the DL3 so I went with the electronic system. I bought a complete system from Valid Manufacturing, took about a day to install.
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I'm still searching. Maybe there's a term for these I'm not aware of. Basically I want this: supply the air from one direction when switch is flipped up. And when the switch is flipped down, exhaust the air from only one direction to deflate the bags. This must exist. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/6edbc8980081020445e4fc2597d7f38b.jpg)
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on April 02, 2017, 10:51:55 AM
I'm still searching. Maybe there's a term for these I'm not aware of. Basically I want this: supply the air from one direction when switch is flipped up. And when the switch is flipped down, exhaust the air from only one direction to deflate the bags. This must exist.
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run tee
the feed and exhaust should both be NC. activated by momentary switches.
if you are using electric.
the air sw. above is an air seat height adj valve...pull to add and push exhaust,no electric involved...you just need to pipe the exhaust away. (or vice versa,push-pull).I am getting old timers disease, i forget easily :)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bostrom-and-National-Air-Seat-Height-Control-Valve-134-3-Velvac-032110-/291639224830 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bostrom-and-National-Air-Seat-Height-Control-Valve-134-3-Velvac-032110-/291639224830)
https://www.google.com/search?q=run+tee&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoucmBsIbTAhVPzGMKHWRyACsQsAQIOA&biw=1536&bih=770 (https://www.google.com/search?q=run+tee&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoucmBsIbTAhVPzGMKHWRyACsQsAQIOA&biw=1536&bih=770)
then there are these...
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fep.yimg.com%2Fca%2FI%2Fyhst-59523690850641_2267_27898206&hash=bf095cad23b1a5ddb3fc3b3494175d25af992b02)
http://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/aireltosw32.html (http://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/aireltosw32.html)
I typed in "3 position air switch" on eBay and got several hits. Actually, look for 3 position electric air valve so you can control it with a remote toggle switch.
--Geoff
Fantastic. Ok you guys got me on the right road again. I was struggling with the terminology. Now that I know what to search for It helps. Those military surplus switches I think could work. Just trying to figure out if they vent just one side. But again, I'm on the right road now. Thanks Geoff for the terminology. I'll be researching this.
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Scott be carefull about pressure rating on those. Some will only hold back so much pressure with zero pressure on the other side, and some will only "pop" open up to a certain pressure differential between the two sides.
Before I got the Valid system I bought some solenoids that were supposed to be rated for high enough pressure but they ended up not working right for tha application.
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I don't know how it works for sure really never looked into it,the Humvees we have use a air system that should work for Scott.I cannot see a 3 way valve working without a distribution center or block , or a 4 wire valve
Good advice on the high pressure differential issues. It seems the easiest way to do this would be square one. Just using two normally closed solenoids per bag with a dump TEE in the line. I can get solenoids for less than $10 all day long. So I can't see spending $700-800 on a more advanced system. Worst case, I'll retain my manual system that's similar to Daves (sledhead). This isn't rocket science and I know several of you have made custom systems that work. So instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, I'll just try two solenoids per bag with a dump TEE and if they don't hold air, I'll go manual. Thanks again for talking me through this. And for future searchers, air leveling with your auto levelers removed is truly a viable option for minor to medium leveling. My bags are recommended to not exceed 100 psi. So I can run 90 psi for max inflation and of course dump completely to 0 psi for minimum inflation. I haven't measured the actual inches of travel but it's decently substantial. For us, touring sometimes several months per year from Truck stop to truck stop and hotel parking lot to hotel parking lot, this is the perfect, cheap, and effective leveling system for account for pavement slopes.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/237dc95346681529cf078d788550d3c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/602ef47c2532d8492b1392bfb0774d74.jpg)
If you just wish to dump the air from the bags and not adjust the height then you are looking for "pilot valves". They come in both air controlled or electric control. Neway, Meritor Haldex plus others all make them.
Any thing is possible with a manifold and valves with air,I like KISS system myself though
Yes in reading my explanation, I positioned the T for the exhaust and air pressure solenoid between the cut off solenoid and the air bags. Thank you for the correction. Good Luck, TomC
Jim I'm wanting to do both. Dump air to level and add air to level. Two normally closed solenoids should do this :) im hoping
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What about using self relieving regulator valves? The same kind of regulators used for the park brakes as well as some of the other systems. The 279E1 is available with knobs instead of the adjusting bolt, be pretty easy for adjustments.
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Two thoughts:
1. You have to spin those regulator knobs a ton to get them to do any dramatic pressure change. And they dump so so slowly.
2. I don't want to run air lines to the dash. My dash is super crowded already and adding more air lines under there has been causing me problems already. :(
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on April 04, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Two thoughts:
1. You have to spin those regulator knobs a ton to get them to do any dramatic pressure change. And they dump so so slowly.
2. I don't want to run air lines to the dash. My dash is super crowded already and adding more air lines under there has been causing me problems already. :(
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it can be done with spring centered two throw switches and the run tees and 12v solenoided valves.
4ea. SPRING centered MOMENTARY sw. being off
and up adds air
and down exhausts....
using NC VALVES.
^ tell
Me more! Exactly what I'm trying to build
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on April 05, 2017, 09:10:32 PM
^ tell Me more! Exactly what I'm trying to build
Scott, here's a Jameco R-13-66-I-02 which is a three-position with the push-top and push-bottom positions momentary. When it's in its released, central position, it does not make any connection. (The "02" at the end of the part number is the connector blade type, I'd use the .187" connector blade but you may have other connectors. Also, note the "I" digit which is a letter I.)
I've never seen one of these for real or used one, but it's an illustration of what's out there.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff60%2Foonrahnjay%2FBus%2FSwitchAirLevel_zpsd3ekoxog.png&hash=83dc129306642c912bdd1d117db97d5f8655b155) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/oonrahnjay/media/Bus/SwitchAirLevel_zpsd3ekoxog.png.html)
3p spdt ...momentary
they make all types.
this one is solder on. but i do not know if it is spring return momentary
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/66-1226.html?otaid=gpl&gclid=CJzNzPCkkNMCFYE9gQodEaUBGg (https://www.circuitspecialists.com/66-1226.html?otaid=gpl&gclid=CJzNzPCkkNMCFYE9gQodEaUBGg)
spade lug.momentary this one seems expensive ...
http://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-3-position-spdton-off-momentary/ (http://www.steinair.com/product/toggle-switch-3-position-spdton-off-momentary/)
google this...
toggle-switch-3-position-spdt on-off-momentary
https://www.google.com/search?q=toggle-switch-3-position-spdt+on-off-momentary&oq=toggle-switch-3-position-spdt+on-off-momentary&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
(https://www.google.com/search?q=toggle-switch-3-position-spdt+on-off-momentary&oq=toggle-switch-3-position-spdt+on-off-momentary&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
this one looks nice. i just prefer screw landed
here is a screw landed. but you should research spring reset...recenter.
but..if you are aiming regulated air...i guess it would not matter.
and consider...you may not want to hold the switch to exhaust..
but... if you forget to center the switch...u might defeat the duty cycle of the solenoid.
i would want spring resets.
iirc...normaly momentary is spring reset/recentered. just confirm to be sure...my two brain cells are arguing this day. :)
https://www.kimballmidwest.com/All-Products/Electrical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/28975/ (https://www.kimballmidwest.com/All-Products/Electrical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/28975/)
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 06, 2017, 10:04:26 AM
this one looks nice. i just prefer screw landed
here is a screw landed. but you should research spring reset...recenter.
but..if you are aiming regulated air...i guess it would not matter.
and consider...you may not want to hold the switch to exhaust..
but... if you forget to center the switch...u might defeat the duty cycle of the solenoid.
i would want spring resets.
iirc...normaly momentary is spring reset/recentered. just confirm to be sure...my two brain cells are arguing this day. :)
https://www.kimballmidwest.com/All-Products/Electrical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/28975/ (https://www.kimballmidwest.com/All-Products/Electrical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/28975/)
Yeah, Don. That's a spring-center (spring release). The convention in the industry seems to be parentheses, e. g. (on) - off - (on) means a switch that's momentary in both positions. If someone really wants a switch that's momentary on when you're adding air and sticks off when you're venting (I don't), then it would be a three-position (on) - off - on switch.
A genuine momentary-in-both-positions (i.e. you take your hand off the switch and it goes to off) is here:
https://www.delcity.net/catalogdetails?item=27300050 (https://www.delcity.net/catalogdetails?item=27300050)
Between all the options, (push button, rocker, lever toggle, etc., connections large or small spades, screw-type, etc., color etc.) there is a lot of confusion in these
catalogs. But the right switches are there.
Good stuff. But I will say that sometimes if I just want to dump air, I do not want to hold the switch in dump mode. It takes minutes to dump and I've been having to do that and it's a pain. They really don't have to be momentary. I can regulate the full air to not exceed 90 psi. Problem solved.
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Scott, If you really want to spend hours mind boggled and overwhelmed check out this.... like a kid in a candy store :o
https://www.grainger.com/category/pneumatic-valves/pneumatics/ecatalog/N-17ta (https://www.grainger.com/category/pneumatic-valves/pneumatics/ecatalog/N-17ta)
This idea might be over simplified, but you never know what combination of ideas will solve your problem :)
I do not know your setup, but you know mine. I have the valves in the rear that you move to dump air from trailing to drive bags. The valves themselves ( well, one of them so far) have a quick connect compressor fitting where the tire valve used to be.
Depending on where you locate them (assuming the pressure regulators and evaporators), they could add air very quickly with a simple pancake compressor...and they dump it even faster...REALLY fast.
Why couldn't you just add one set up for each bag set?
Or, there's always the other option of making a few modifications to ensure equal weight on both sides...but in your case, the leveling system might prove to be much less of a nightmare :)
My current bus has a good leveling system, and I enjoy it. Quick and easy. I use a level app on my phone laying on the floor beside the driver's seat.
My former bus didn't have a leveling system. So I used some 2X6 wood to drive onto. One or two under a wheel as necessary. It was almost as quick as with the pneumatic system of now.
The pneumatic system only gives 4 or 5 inches up and down at each corner. That is not much on a 40 foot bus... You have to look for a fairly level spot to park on anyway, then tweak the final level with the switches.
JC
Quote from: daddysgirl on April 07, 2017, 04:54:00 AM
This idea might be over simplified, but you never know what combination of ideas will solve your problem :)
I do not know your setup, but you know mine. I have the valves in the rear that you move to dump air from trailing to drive bags. The valves themselves ( well, one of them so far) have a quick connect compressor fitting where the tire valve used to be.
Depending on where you locate them (assuming the pressure regulators and evaporators), they could add air very quickly with a simple pancake compressor...and they dump it even faster...REALLY fast.
Why couldn't you just add one set up for each bag set?
Or, there's always the other option of making a few modifications to ensure equal weight on both sides...but in your case, the leveling system might prove to be much less of a nightmare :)
that's basically what I think I'll be creating. Keeping it simple. I'll report back on here how well it works.
Joe, thanks so much for helping me to waste more time online looking at cool switches and air valves...oh dear.
When you want to waste even more time, that place also has all the cool relays, switches, contactors, ice cubes, ect. ect. for your electrical inventions plus about anything else you might need for your coach.