Hello everyone,
Probably opening a can of worms here but I am seeking opinions regarding DP MH vs. a conversion bus. We are just starting our search and as we look at assets we have insofar as taking on a conversion project it seems we have enough to consider it. And I can bring my small company and it's skilled people to the front on the project as the coach will almost certainly end up owned by the corporation. Besides I love building things.
Our search thus far has been limited to manufacturers of DP's in northern Indiana, as we live in South Bend. We have narrowed our search to Entegra, Newmar and our favorite American Coach. Our needs include high combined weight rating as compared to GVW. Without boring you all with the details we have need for 15K towing capacity, more would be good. We simply do not care for Super C coaches so we are pretty much stuck in the plus 40' range with tag. Even in the late used category we will be hard pressed to keep the price south of $250k to get all the features we would like and probably $450-500k new. That leaves us a pretty fair budget even if we have to drop $100k on a late model bus to start with.
As whatever coach we end up owning will be driven more than appears normal for a motorhome. My best guess is 40-50k miles annually. It seems everything in the category we are searching has quad slides. As spacious as 4 slide units are when parked they seem to completely lack functional living areas when moving. We see lots of WalMart boondocking, rest area breaks and so on so 4 slides will prove more hinderance than happiness I suspect. And honestly, quad slides is just one of the things we would do differently could we justify a Newell converion or the like. But we can't so it seems to get the coach we really want is going to take a diy approach. Also, from what I read, a bus is simply a far superior machine from the standpoint of drive quality and durability.
Advantages we have:
1.) Time. We really don't NEED a coach for about 3 years. Of course having it before would be nice but better to wait and have it be more exactly what we want.
2.) Space. I have a 20 x 60 foot space in an old industrial building just waiting for something big to get parked in it.
3.) Skills. My little business includes complete metal fabrication, small machine shop, and proffessional paint area along with people to work it all.
4.) Engineering. Both mechanical and electrical engineering types available inside.
5.) Diesel mechanics. My wife is employed by the local transit company and bakes goodies for the mechanics all the time so we have access to cheap, but not free, bus mechanics.
We lack specific experience with anything that moves down the road at 70 miles an hour though so I am a little apprehensive.
Open to any and all thoughts and advice. Feel free to talk the jumper off the ledge or nudge me to go ahead and give it a try.
Thanks
OK --maybe I am the only dumb guy reading this?!
WHAT IS A "DP"????
I know we generally call the "factory built" motorhomes S&S's or "Stick and Staples" or "S*** and Staples" but I have never seen DP. ;D :D
Down-graded Prevost
Dedicated Purpose
Deranged Plymouth
Decidedly Pitiful
This just has me stumped!
What I do know is you can buy a nice converted bus for less than $100K! ;)
Unless your finances are in the upper tier realm, as in high 5 figure low 6, I would vote fo a conversion.
Having said that, this is a conversion weighted group :)
I would only wish to own a MH, if I had a need for something less than 35 foot.
PS. DP = Diesel Pusher...or more $$ motor home :)
Quote from: pabusnut on March 24, 2017, 02:50:50 PM
OK --maybe I am the only dumb guy reading this?!
WHAT IS A "DP"????
I know we generally call the "factory built" motorhomes S&S's or "Stick and Staples" or "S*** and Staples" but I have never seen DP. ;D :D
Down-graded Prevost
Dedicated Purpose
Deranged Plymouth
Decidedly Pitiful
This just has me stumped!
What I do know is you can buy a nice converted bus for less than $100K! ;)
DOWN GRADED PREVOST!!??!! There is no such animal. PERIOD :o
Quote from: eagle19952 on March 24, 2017, 02:55:22 PM
Unless your finances are in the upper tier realm, as in high 5 figure low 6, I would vote fo a conversion.
Having said that, this is a conversion weighted group :)
Budget is flexible. Currently we are anticipating $200k plus and would cry real tears if I had to exceed $300k.
Asked about opinions here because it is a conversion leaning crowd. Probably should have worded my question better. Something like why a bus instead of a pusher MH? Or why might it be foolhardy to attempt a conversion having never done it before?
My bad.
" Or why might it be foolhardy to attempt a conversion having never done it before?"
MOST people on this board are in this category so I don't see that as a drawback.
Quote from: Fred Mc on March 24, 2017, 04:29:49 PM
" Or why might it be foolhardy to attempt a conversion having never done it before?"
MOST people on this board are in this category so I don't see that as a drawback.
Just my opinion -- if you think that there's ANY chance that a completed, factory-built vehicle will meet your needs, that's where you should go. If there's no way that a MH will work for you, or if you just really want to do something for a time-consuming, marriage-wrecking, high $$$ hobby, then you can/should consider a conversion.
I am not knowledgable about MCI, but I assume like a Prevost conversion your needs will be met with a commercial bus conversion that has been professionally done.
If you want slides I recently saw a relatively late model 2 slide Prevost for $200,000 and you can buy $300,000 2 slide Prevost conversions all day long. They are all going to have from 100,000 miles to 200,000 miles so they are far from worn out and are going to give you the commercial qualities that are going to allow you to put far more the mileage you mention per year easily.
Prevost offers optional 20,000# towing capacity. Your only constraint is to keep the tongue weight below the 1500 or 2000 pound limit.
If interior space and storage plus on the road interior utility is important stay away from slides and get a late 90's or rare 2000's non slide conversion. They make the best use of space and the lack of slides actually yields more useable storage space and an interionr design that is easy to use. All slide do besides add weight, complexity, and take away storage space is provide more waling room when they are extended and less when they are closed.
the best of both worlds . if you look from 2000 to 2005 you should find some high end units with 1 -2 slides and yes the 4 slide coach is great when parked but a pain in the a$$ to use when driving . what I do not like with the Newell,s is all the old style arches and the shinny curves . just my opinion there are a lot of Prevost and MCI,s out there as well of those years
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2001-Newell-Coach-45--119558193 (https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2001-Newell-Coach-45--119558193)
http://www.rvt.com/Prevost-American-XLll-2004-Hudson-FL-IDs7264704-UX101773 (http://www.rvt.com/Prevost-American-XLll-2004-Hudson-FL-IDs7264704-UX101773)
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1999-MCI--45-FT-Renaissance--Bus-Conversion-116780461 (https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1999-MCI--45-FT-Renaissance--Bus-Conversion-116780461)
dave
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on March 24, 2017, 04:38:55 PM
Just my opinion -- if you think that there's ANY chance that a completed, factory-built vehicle will meet your needs, that's where you should go. If there's no way that a MH will work for you, or if you just really want to do something for a time-consuming, marriage-wrecking, high $$$ hobby, then you can/should consider a conversion.
The whole marriage wrecking idea seems a great option some days.......
I'm new as well, currently searching for a bus conversion. After much analysis and extensive research, I must agree with what I was told over and over again. Buy an already converted bus conversion. Unless there is something very specific in your requirements that can only be satisfied with a totally custom build, you will save so much time, labor, headaches, and money by picking one already converted.
I feel quite up to speed with what knowledge is needed to make a smart buy. The one big unanswered topic is why are ready buyers practically non-existent. The market is incredibly biased toward buyers as reflected in the return on money spent on bus projects. One can explain away a fair portion of the expense as maintenance and repair but even improvements are nearly unrecognized in the selling prices.
From a financial perspective, you will get killed or maybe just shoot yourself if you ever sell a bus project you undertook from a bare, passenger coach. You would be fabulously delirious if you recoup 50% and thankful to almighty at 30%.
My instinct is one of the key factors is cultural and generational. My guess is the average bus nut is north of 60, the generations that actually know which end of a wrench to use and where to put it to use. Patience and hard work are familiar concepts. Millennials, on the other, have zero clue how to fix anything nor the patience, making something like a bus conversion project beyond enormous and simply unfathomable.
There are exceptions of course but they are just that, exceptions. To be fair, many boomers are more comfortable with just writing a big check to the RV dealer for a slick and shiny stick and staple factory unit. It takes an adventurous and risk taking constitution to undertake a bus conversion project, less so if one buys an already converted project. Good luck.
Quote from: MaybeABus on March 24, 2017, 05:14:23 PM
The whole marriage wrecking idea seems a great option some days.......
I forgot to welcome you to the forum earlier. I like your sense of humor.... ;D
A couple of questions. You mention towing being important, but what kind of use do you see for the interior? Lots of close family, just you and the missus, or taking the employees to the races for a few days, or maybe entertaining clients? These questions will dictate a custom build, slight modifications, or just a simple factory built MH. We're all busnuts here, so you know we're biased and agree with Windtrader when he says Millennials write checks, we get our hands dirty. If you feel pride in that statement, you have to own a bus! ;D
Jon, sledhead (remind me to ask about that screen name)and Windtrader. Good stuff on the "second hand pro conversions". I have just finished an hour long blitz of rvtrader and youtube.
Seems what we really are looking for may well lie in that particular pile. Though I am still intrigued by the possibility of a wrecked marriage over a bus, I suppose I am getting older as now it would take a machine to be the homewrecker.
Quote from: MaybeABus on March 24, 2017, 07:02:15 PM.. now it would take a machine to be the homewrecker.
Much less subsequent heartache than a red-head.
PP, you hit the nail on the head. All the uses you mention and a few more. The towing capacity comes from a machine we are building in Chicago. The smallest model comes in at about 7000 pounds. Add in a car, supplies to support demonstrating the machine on site and the necessary custom trailer and I expect to end up a bit north of 15K pounds. If 15k is all I can come up with I guess I'd dump the car.
The coach will find it's way to trade shows on some days. Other times it will take myself and my grandson who is a roller coaster fanatic to whatever amusement park he has his heart set on. That's the problem with being 300 miles away from him, I kinda spoil him when we do get together. It will also be used for the two of us to get away for weeks at a time. So as I said, all the above. It will very much be a multipurpose vehicle.
And it might house me and my dog when she throws me out for a few nights at a time.
And Oonrahnjay it would never have been a redhead, I am far too cowardly for one of those.
Thanks for the welcome.
An older, high end, professionally built coach will usually be better designed/ engineered.
My '87 has no slides and large water tanks. Makes it easy to overnight in parking lots.
If you are using this coach for business purposes you may be subject to commercial requirements including DOT number, CDL for drivers, and all that. You might want to check with your business lawyer.
Actually my wife already has her CDL and I am likely getting mine regardless for larger truck rentals. We are already anticipating that. Should make it easier to say NO to anyone wanting to use it too. :-)
It really sounds like you have already answered your own questions and are leaning toward an existing conversion. Get something basically solid that is close to what you want, and then modify it to suit you exactly. I would drop the DP term though, that is just something RV salesmen created to describe a rear engine RV that is "bus like", but not (Newell's might be an exception).
Your trailer towing want negates an rv DP'r.
Without question.
an RV salesman might disagree for obvious reasons :)
I agree with eagle and would include most bus conversions, as well. As much as I like buses, they generally do not do well pulling heavy trailers.
If it was me, needing to pull that much trailer, I'd be looking at semi-tractor based toterhomes. They can be very nice conversions and have plenty of towing capacity, up to 40K.
Also, I think you'll find, with a corporate owned coach, you'll need a lot more than a CDL to be legal.
Bob
Commercial use requires far more than a CDL so if you intend for that either go all the way and treat the entire rig as a commercial vehicle and comply with all the requirements, or go stealth and make certain the trailer and bus look like every other motor home on the road. No decals, no company name, no external clues about a business use.
Go here........... https://prevostcommunity.com/sellCoaches.asp
on my old 2000 featherlite the towing max is 20,000 lbs and the 550 hp cat has no problems pulling it . myself my trailer with my p/u truck on it is only 6,000 lbs and pulls it easy . that said the high end units have a large towing rating . I wanted a coach with no egr or any other pollution devices and new I would have to GUT it out and redo the inside the way I wanted it , but most of the stuff needed was all ready in there . the down side of the early 2000 rv's is they had a lot of mirrors , mirrors and mirrors and gold every where . most of them are hi-gloss formica not the wood that I like . I have been having a lot of fun redoing it my way
dave
Quote from: sledhead on March 25, 2017, 05:16:19 AM... the down side of the early 2000 rv's is they had a lot of mirrors , mirrors and mirrors and gold every were . most of them are hi-gloss formica not the wood that I like . I have been having a lot of fun redoing it my way
dave
"Built down to a minimum dollar figure". Yep, that' the way it works with "mass production".
If I had $200K to play with, I'd look for a Blue Bird, Newell or professionally converted MCI (don't like Prevost and all the snootiness associated with them). Keep no longer than 40ft-if you go over 40ft, many states restrict you to truck routes only and you most likely will have to get a non commercial class B license to drive it. At least in California, your class C license (normal car license) allows you to drive up to a 40ft 3axle house car AND tow up to a 10,000lb trailer.
Converting you own will make it your own-but it is a very large undertaking. Many good used on the market. Good Luck, TomC
Yesterday, I wrote a reply here, then lost my internet connection, and it disappeared...
Most of what I had is mentioned here by everyone else.
But let me emphasize that a bus conversion will not pull a heavy trailer. It is the tongue weight that is too much. The rear framing of a bus is designed to support the engine and not much else. Although late model MCIs and Prevosts can take more than the older ones. Here in Canada, Greyhound pulls cargo trailers with MCIs, but they are not 15000 lbs. I would look at high end motor home pushers with a rail frame like Freightliner chassis. Or as mentioned above, a class 8 truck conversion.
JC
Quote from: TomC on March 25, 2017, 06:44:56 AM
If I had $200K to play with, I'd look for a Blue Bird, Newell or professionally converted MCI (don't like Prevost and all the snootiness associated with them). Good Luck, TomC
Snootiness? We can't help it if you feel inferior. ;D
Quote from: muldoonman on March 25, 2017, 07:40:26 AM
Snootiness? We can't help it if you feel inferior. ;D
I like that ;D ;D
Quote from: Jon on March 25, 2017, 04:30:02 AM
Commercial use requires far more than a CDL so if you intend for that either go all the way and treat the entire rig as a commercial vehicle and comply with all the requirements, or go stealth and make certain the trailer and bus look like every other motor home on the road. No decals, no company name, no external clues about a business use.
Go here........... https://prevostcommunity.com/sellCoaches.asp
I'm known to take more than my share of risks but if you are using it for commercial use and you have assets at risk, I'd make very sure your insurance policy covers your actual use, not stated use, of the coach. I can't even image what a mess it would be if the bus got in a wreck pulling a 15k lb trailer between trade shows and claiming it is a personal RV. You're apt to lose everything you have.
Quote from: sledhead on March 25, 2017, 05:16:19 AM
on my old 2000 featherlite the towing max is 20,000 lbs and the 550 hp cat has no problems pulling it . myself my trailer with my p/u truck on it is only 6,000 lbs and pulls it easy . that said the high end units have a large towing rating . I wanted a coach with no egr or any other pollution devices and new I would have to GUT it out and redo the inside the way I wanted it , but most of the stuff needed was all ready in there . the down side of the early 2000 rv's is they had a lot of mirrors , mirrors and mirrors and gold every where . most of them are hi-gloss formica not the wood that I like . I have been having a lot of fun redoing it my way
dave
there is always a yes but.
The rig of which you speak is not one easily found, tho I agree it is the exception and is likely exceptional. :)
Most of what I had is mentioned here by everyone else.
But let me emphasize that a bus conversion will not pull a heavy trailer. It is the tongue weight that is too much. The rear framing of a bus is designed to support the engine and not much else. Although late model MCIs and Prevosts can take more than the older ones. Here in Canada, Greyhound pulls cargo trailers with MCIs, but they are not 15000 lbs. I would look at high end motor home pushers with a rail frame like Freightliner chassis. Or as mentioned above, a class 8 truck conversion.
A late 90's Prevost XL with a 60 series Detroit is rated to pull 10,000 lbs with 1000 lbs tongue weight. Prevost can upgrade the engine cradle and it will be rated to pull 20,000 lbs with 1500 lbs tongue weight. Mine is a 95/96 and I had the engine cradle upgrade several years ago. I have pulled 16,000 lbs all over the country several times.
You can buy one in very nice shape with less that 200,000 miles, get the upgrade if it has not be done, make sure it is road ready and still be way under budget.
Davy
How about this one?
http://www.rvt.com/Neoplan-DOUBLE-DECKER-INTERMODEL-PROTOTYPE-BUS-2001-El-Paso-TX-ID5568903-UX144345 (http://www.rvt.com/Neoplan-DOUBLE-DECKER-INTERMODEL-PROTOTYPE-BUS-2001-El-Paso-TX-ID5568903-UX144345)
Quote from: TomC on March 25, 2017, 06:44:56 AM
If I had $200K to play with, I'd look for a Blue Bird, Newell or professionally converted MCI (don't like Prevost and all the snootiness associated with them). Keep no longer than 40ft-if you go over 40ft, many states restrict you to truck routes only and you most likely will have to get a non commercial class B license to drive it. At least in California, your class C license (normal car license) allows you to drive up to a 40ft 3axle house car AND tow up to a 10,000lb trailer.
Converting you own will make it your own-but it is a very large undertaking. Many good used on the market. Good Luck, TomC
I'm so stuck up I won't talk to myself.
Thanks so much everyone for the good information.
As to the concerns regarding liability and legality, we do move heavy machinery all the time in our business. Knock on wood we have yet to experience a calamity significant enough to test our insurance and so on. This is the primary reason I see this as a corporate investment. Easier to explain using a company vehicle for personal uses vs. explaining why I am carrying a heavy load with a private coach. But I agree, this will all need further investigation.
As to the towing capacity, I have the horse in front of the cart right now, but think I may want to do it the other way. I spoke to the chief engineer on the project and his gut feeling is by replacing steel covers and non structural steel elements of the chassis we can shave 12-1500 pounds off the piece of equipment we will be dragging around. By rearranging the "support bits" we can save another 500# easily. Dump the Forester as the tow vehicle and get something small, like 2500# we shed another 1500-200# maybe. That would get us well south of 15K and maybe even more in the 10k range. So if the cart gets lighter I have a much wider selection of horses to choose from theoretically.
If I had $200K, I could buy a brand new school bus by Thomas or Bluebird and get about $75K change!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Some of the higher end coach manufacturers build their own chassis & have tow capacities of 25K with 10% tongue load.
Quote from: MaybeABus on March 25, 2017, 03:55:23 PM
Thanks so much everyone for the good information.
As to the concerns regarding liability and legality, we do move heavy machinery all the time in our business. Knock on wood we have yet to experience a calamity significant enough to test our insurance and so on. This is the primary reason I see this as a corporate investment. Easier to explain using a company vehicle for personal uses vs. explaining why I am carrying a heavy load with a private coach. But I agree, this will all need further investigation.
As to the towing capacity, I have the horse in front of the cart right now, but think I may want to do it the other way. I spoke to the chief engineer on the project and his gut feeling is by replacing steel covers and non structural steel elements of the chassis we can shave 12-1500 pounds off the piece of equipment we will be dragging around. By rearranging the "support bits" we can save another 500# easily. Dump the Forester as the tow vehicle and get something small, like 2500# we shed another 1500-200# maybe. That would get us well south of 15K and maybe even more in the 10k range. So if the cart gets lighter I have a much wider selection of horses to choose from theoretically.
When it comes to commercial vehicles, depending on state rules, a trailer under 10,000 lbs does not have that weight added to the gross weight of the towing vehicle, but when it is over 10,000 lbs., that weight is added and boosts the total gross weight affecting the cost of license plates, weight restrictions, and DOT inspection requirements.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 26, 2017, 09:27:42 AM
When it comes to commercial vehicles, depending on state rules, a trailer under 10,000 lbs does not have that weight added to the gross weight of the towing vehicle, but when it is over 10,000 lbs., that weight is added and boosts the total gross weight affecting the cost of license plates, weight restrictions, and DOT inspection requirements.
Good point. I have a CDL B which allows me to drive any single unit vehicle though my endorsements are just passenger, school bus with no restriction on air brakes or manual gearboxes. It also allows me to drive a trailer up to 10,000lbs.
Beyond that I'd need the CDL A
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jon on March 25, 2017, 02:41:30 PM
I'm so stuck up I won't talk to myself.
Jon that's strange I always thought you did talk to yourself but didn't answer yourself!
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Zephod on March 25, 2017, 06:02:23 PM
If I had $200K, I could buy a brand new school bus by Thomas or Bluebird and get about $75K change!
And just why in the world would anybody buy a brand new schoolie to convert? In the end you still have a schoolie!
;D BK ;D
Quote from: B_K on March 26, 2017, 11:53:01 AM
And just why in the world would anybody buy a brand new schoolie to convert? In the end you still have a schoolie!
;D BK ;D
Not so. Ordered directly, it could be had without seats, with windows replaced by sheet steel, with proper locks on the doors, without the central walkway and without the student alarm. All kinds of benefits and the manufacturer could register it as a motorhome.
Quote from: Zephod on March 26, 2017, 12:10:20 PM
Not so. Ordered directly, it could be had without seats, with windows replaced by sheet steel, with proper locks on the doors, without the central walkway and without the student alarm. All kinds of benefits and the manufacturer could register it as a motorhome.
what ceiling heights are available?
Maybe a bus NAME?? -
If I had a $200K budget, I would look for an early 2000's MCI or Prevost professionally converted by Custom Coach, Liberty Coach, Marathon Coach, Royal Coach, etc. One from one of the major four/five conversion companies. Option would be a Newell or Wanderlodge.
Look for one with a 12.7L Series 60 Detroit (pre-EGR!!) with the Allison B500 automatic.
40 or 45 foot, your choice.
As for towing the trailer, and the potential tongue weight issue, here's your answer:
http://trailertoad.com/id79.html (http://trailertoad.com/id79.html)
Some folk, when I've mentioned this option, have squawked about the price of these. But, IMHO, the cost is far less than the repair costs of your tow vehicle from cracked chassis members after towing something with a heavy tongue weight. I have a friend who's beautiful GM 4106 was totaled after his heavy trailer actually buckled the chassis over the rear axle. Sad to see, as his coach was gorgeous. (He's now got an MCI MC-9 AND a TrailerToad!)
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
RJ--
I'm looking at your signature information And see you also have another MC5 with a 6V92 and HT 740. What are you going to do with that one?
--Geoff
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 26, 2017, 12:29:32 PM
what ceiling heights are available?
Not sure but those I drive which are recent models have tall enough ceilings for my 6 feet. In fact, there's plenty headroom.
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Quote from: Geoff on March 26, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
I'm looking at your signature information, and see you also have another MC5 with a 6V92 and HT-740. What are you going to do with that one?
Geoff -I sent you a PM with the latest thoughts on the 2nd 5C.
RJ
Quote from: RJ on March 26, 2017, 07:24:33 PM
Geoff -
I sent you a PM with the latest thoughts on the 2nd 5C.
RJ
Aw now come on RJ that ain't fair yer keeping all of us in suspense!
But I got a feeling your going to turn it into a toad!
;D BK ;D
Do NOT underestimate the risks associated with "commercial compliance"
Very rare for someone to get on an internet forum and brag about how they got caught and badly thrashed by the authorities.
You only hear about the ones who think they are getting away with something.
FYI, there is an entire sub-set of enforcement officers whose entire duty is focused on this otherwise obscure and complex set of highway commerce laws.
Ask any trucker, they pursue these laws with... ahem... enthusiasm?
Trade show parking lots are an easy drive by, shooting fish in a barrel venues. These guys know exactly where to find you, and know exactly the profile that you will unwittingly display. You gotta know the rules well, to get away with breaking them?
From a distance, just your lack of compliance stickers/license plates will wave a red flag at the keen eye.
Same going down the highway, they simply put on the lights and pull you over.
Caught doing commercial without the necessary compliance, you will be sidelined, ordered unable to leave, with at least ~$3000 worth of tickets in your shirt pocket, your entire cheating operation now in the spotlight of the feds, and lots more $$$ if you piss 'em off.
If you are cited, as the the driver, a $475 ticket for: "Wearing Blue Underwear on the Second Day of the WorkWeek, While In-Charge of a Class 2.543 Commercial Vehicle" and then your company, as the employer, a similar $475 ticket for Allowing the driver to.... starting to get the picture?
Did you know your underwear matters?
Your perceived "rights" are very different the moment the commercial vehicle legislation comes into play, and may be quite shocking to those with a "freedom" orientation.
Remember the costing model, it costs a lot to be compliant, there is an economic invitation there to cheat.... the penalties have to be a deterrent...
The charges may be laid to the driver and/or the company and may include , but not be limited to: tax evasion, falsification, driver licensing, vehicle licensing, fuel tax reporting, periodic vehicle inspection, pre/post daily inspection, driver hours of service(log books), record keeping, insurance requirements, state and federal statutes to choose from.. and if they choose to put the unit through a CVSA inspection, and find something not mechanically fit.., more charges and repaired before you leave. The mobile mechanic also knows the situation you are in and charges accordingly. You have become a marked man.
They will follow you home and poke their noses into most aspects of your business, looking for more evidence of compliance avoidance. How does all the raw product and finished goods come and go? And when the IRS finds out, what claims did you make against what...? This ain't a stroll in a shower in Kansas anymore...
And post major accident, all this is what your insurer uses to deny the claim.
You can't dabble in the big boys sandbox and not get sand kicked in your face?
That being said, there are readily available "safety and legislative compliance service providers" available for modest cost that will get you all properly set-up and your periodic compliance requirements listed for you.
A good place to do some initial research?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
And they are much nicer up in Canada! I have trucked in both countries, and the rules are very similar in both. A commercial vehicle has to make money to justify all the expense of operating legally, otherwise it is a big money drain. If there is ever an accident, sharp lawyers will be all over you if you are not legal and in good mechanical shape.
Quote from: buswarrior on March 27, 2017, 08:45:21 AM
If you are cited, as the the driver, a $475 ticket for: "Wearing Blue Underwear on the Second Day of the WorkWeek, While In-Charge of a Class 2.543 Commercial Vehicle" and then your company, as the employer, a similar $475 ticket for Allowing the driver to.... starting to get the picture?
Your logic is flawed buswarrior. This is based on the assumption I wear underwear.
At any rate it appears we are going back to square one on this entire project. As I live in Indiana we are choked a bit tighter than most states with a 60' combined limit using a tag hitch. No permitting option to get around it in either private or commercial situations per the IN DOT. As virtually every coach I have considered will not be able to legally haul even a mini cooper on a tow bar the entire project is going to need to change or perhaps be cancelled.
Being near where so many coaches are built it isn't the least bit uncommon to see a large coach pulling a stacker down the road. Never considered that they are all "rolling the dice" with liability and legality. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
wow 60 ' that sucks .... with my set up coach is 44' + 16 ' deck + v nose of 4 ' = 20 ' ( trailer ) total of 64 ' so where we live I am under by about 9 '
with my mid size truck ( 2015 colorado ) on the trailer there is no more room for any thing else
dave
Quote from: MaybeABus on March 27, 2017, 11:00:24 AM
As virtually every coach I have considered will not be able to legally haul even a mini cooper on a tow bar the entire project is going to need to change or perhaps be cancelled.
NAME?? -Consider this option: A Kenworth or Peterbilt truck tractor with an extended sleeper. Behind that, a standard 5th wheel plate that you could tow an RV-style fifth-wheel toy hauler with your display inside, rather than an RV interior, plus room for the Mini or Smart car. Being in the heart of RV builders, I'm sure you could have a fifth-wheel easily built to your specs.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: RJ on March 27, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
NAME?? -
Consider this option: A Kenworth or Peterbilt truck tractor with an extended sleeper. Behind that, a standard 5th wheel plate that you could tow an RV-style fifth-wheel toy hauler with your display inside, rather than an RV interior, plus room for the Mini or Smart car. Being in the heart of RV builders, I'm sure you could have a fifth-wheel easily built to your specs.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Great for the commercial aspect of the want...kinda sucks for the recreational part :)
If the Original Poster or anyone else is interested in an HDT puller for a fifth wheel, here is the site. It is an extremely high traffic site, the most posts of all the Escapees topics that I know. The people on this site are very knowledgeable and are most helpful, just like this site but relating to HDT's being used for recreational use or commercial use as the OP is suggesting he would license his unit.
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?/forum/32-hdt/ (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?/forum/32-hdt/)
FWIW & HTH
GaryD
For someone wanting a solid coach to repower & remodel - - - -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 27, 2017, 07:46:25 PM
For someone wanting a solid coach to repower & remodel - - - -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr)
Just curious, what is the average cost to haul a 40' bus a 100, 500, 1000 miles?
Quote from: windtrader on March 27, 2017, 08:16:30 PM
Just curious, what is the average cost to haul a 40' bus a 100, 500, 1000 miles?
Probably cheaper to get a mechanic in to put the engine back together and put some used remolds on then drive it wherever.
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Quote from: windtrader on March 27, 2017, 08:16:30 PM
Just curious, what is the average cost to haul a 40' bus a 100, 500, 1000 miles?
I paid about $2/ total mile of the Landoll or $4/ loaded mile, but that was several years ago, so prices will have gone up some.
Quote from: Zephod on March 28, 2017, 07:29:43 AM
Probably cheaper to get a mechanic in to put the engine back together and put some used remolds on then drive it wherever.
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That hasn't been my experience. There is no way of knowing what was bad on the engine & what is now unusable due to the time being open & scattered apart.
Besides, it is either a 6v71 or an green 6v92 - neither one worth spending much on repairs given what else is currently available
If it were me - I'd plan on a re-power with a newer 4 stroke & overdrive transmission. (shop around & see what is available, 350 hp in this coach will be a fun drive!)
I'd check the interior for water damage and poor quality modifications/ repairs.
Spend time inside it cleaning & understanding the existing features & floorplan before I started planning the remodel.
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 28, 2017, 07:06:52 PM
I paid about $2/ total mile of the Landoll or $4/ loaded mile, but that was several years ago, so prices will have gone up some.
That sounds about right, $3 average for the round trip. Currently, it's about $3.50 average plus a hookup fee in Ohio. Some outfits do not have the longer reaching bars to pick up buses in the front. Landoll's are an option if the total height clearance works out, otherwise oversize permits may come into play with restricted routes. Many Interstate bridges are 14-15' high or more, but there are still some marked 13' 6". A/C's have been torn off because people did not pay attention to the height details.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 28, 2017, 07:39:21 PM
That sounds about right, $3 average for the round trip. Currently, it's about $3.50 average plus a hookup fee in Ohio. Some outfits do not have the longer reaching bars to pick up buses in the front. Landoll's are an option if the total height clearance works out, otherwise oversize permits may come into play with restricted routes. Many Interstate bridges are 14-15' high or more, but there are still some marked 13' 6". A/C's have been torn off because people did not pay attention to the height details.
Omg... I drive school busses for a living. I have to avoid three bridges because they've been closed or had weight restrictions placed on them due to strikes from overweight loads.
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A quick update.
First, to all recommending ditching the bus for a HDT, the wife stepped on that hard and I tend to agree. The scenario I originally described is our worse case and most often the coach will be used in a more traditional RV sense. The sacrificed living space vs. OAL is simply dramatic. However great advice.
Second, with the very short limitations in our home state (60' overall) we are now looking at a 16' (approx.) stacker and a 40' coach. This should bring us right at the 60' limit we are up against in Indiana and allow for a tow vehicle bigger than a smart car. At 60' we should breeze through most other states.
Of course she wants things that will be difficult to squeeze into a 40' coach (like 1 1/2 baths and 3 slides) but her happiness is far more important than the lost skin and blood pouring from my damaged knuckles.
Again, thanks to all for the help.
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 27, 2017, 07:46:25 PM
For someone wanting a solid coach to repower & remodel - - - -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Newell-Coach-/162441394403?hash=item25d242f8e3:g:OBsAAOSwCU1Y0w7r&vxp=mtr)
What a totally awesome old coach!!!!!